The new general "Dominions 5" Thread

[deuterio12]

Yeah, that was just a statement that Mewtwo works as its suposed to.
I do have a worry about a teleporting expander like this though. That being its likely possible to pull the old UtterVast trick with it.
And block someones cap turn 1 if there are fixed starting spots.

In a pokemon game that's quite the risky move since most nations are packing stuff with magic attacks that should melt a lone Mewtwo pretty fast. Often in the PD itself.

Isnt that cause for concern? In part since Steel Maidens are suposedly some of the best infantry in the EA.
While Machops meanwhile both work on their own, and turn into heavy infantry that i suspect can blend Steel Maidens.

The heavy machops could blend steel maidens, past tense.
With the simple swords they got last patch they lose more often than not in that matchup, in particular the 9 base morale makes them break pretty fast once they start taking casualities.

Also both machops have an horrid MR 6 base making them drop like flies against any effect that targets that.

It likely need at a bit of a recruitment increase as well.
I honestly think it would have been better to also nerf its attack density slightly.

How does replacing the Ice Punch with a ranged ice attack instead sounds?

Still worried about how they perform under astral Buffs. But i will try and test that first in a bigger game.

To be fair such astral buffs work pretty well for most troops. Astral lucky steel maidens would be extremely brutal.

I think the deal is extremely loopsided in the Platinium Psychics favor.
A lab monkey/communion slave does research most of her time. Especially in the early game.
The Fortune teller meanwhile, only get a chance to use its ability when the province its in gets hit by a bad event. So as such the Stargazer likely gets less of a chance to use its ability than the psychic. And 95% of those times, the Stargazer fails at actually accomplishing anything.

Added to that, the psychic also brings much more research/fort turn.

Ah, but thing is the stargazer is still cheaper, that's pretty important all game long. Plus those few times they do stop a bad event, they can easily save a lot of trouble when you don't need to worry about rebuilding a burned lab/temple nor go clean up some rebels/barbarians blocking your backyard. And Fortune Teller isn't just limited to just stopping bad events either, it can also predict future events (like "in X months from now Y rituals will be cheaper").

And if you have gold to spare and want to prioritize research, then most everybody has mages with superior research than the stargazer or platinium psyker due to plain higher magic paths. If you want the cheapest budget option, the stargazer is the best at cost saving.

I even tried to reduce the research bonus from the Platinium Psyker from +4 to +2 and then autocalc priced them at 45 gold, same as the stargazer.

[lord_khaine]

In a pokemon game that's quite the risky move since most nations are packing stuff with magic attacks that should melt a lone Mewtwo pretty fast. Often in the PD itself.

Yeah i guess a lot of the Pokemon has magical attacks.
The problem is of course, that this is then not balanced with the regular nations any more.

The heavy machops could blend steel maidens, past tense.
With the simple swords they got last patch they lose more often than not in that matchup, in particular the 9 base morale makes them break pretty fast once they start taking casualities.

Also both machops have an horrid MR 6 base making them drop like flies against any effect that targets that.

No i meant they were quite easy to evolve into a heavy infantry unit that likely pastes most stuff thats not a heavily blessed sacred.

How does replacing the Ice Punch with a ranged ice attack instead sounds?

Like a good idea that likely will do at least something.
I am also still worried about how effectively they will be in defence though. In their own dominion they are suddenly +6 to a lot of stats.

To be fair such astral buffs work pretty well for most troops. Astral lucky steel maidens would be extremely brutal.

Your getting more per cast here though. You can Luck 2 Hitmonlee, or 3 Steel maidens in a single casting.
Those 2 units are going to accomplish a lot more.

Ah, but thing is the stargazer is still cheaper, that's pretty important all game long. Plus those few times they do stop a bad event, they can easily save a lot of trouble when you don't need to worry about rebuilding a burned lab/temple nor go clean up some rebels/barbarians blocking your backyard. And Fortune Teller isn't just limited to just stopping bad events either, it can also predict future events (like "in X months from now Y rituals will be cheaper").

And if you have gold to spare and want to prioritize research, then most everybody has mages with superior research than the stargazer or platinium psyker due to plain higher magic paths. If you want the cheapest budget option, the stargazer is the best at cost saving.

I even tried to reduce the research bonus from the Platinium Psyker from +4 to +2 and then autocalc priced them at 45 gold, same as the stargazer.

The stargazer isnt cheaper when it comes to gold/research though.
Or for that matter when it comes to research/fort turns.
Yes they have a small chance of blocking a bad even. But said event can just as easily be a nuiseance, like you lost 50% taxes in the province from flooding.
So i still think the closest reference point here is the Yogi, who gives you 7 research for 55 gold. In part because i think we already have examples of autocalc being way off?

[deuterio12]

Yeah i guess a lot of the Pokemon has magical attacks.
The problem is of course, that this is then not balanced with the regular nations any more.

I beg to disagree.

First, there's vanilla nations with magic weapons and then there's also stuff like Ulm and the giant nations with PD strong enough to straight out punch hard enough to overpower Mewtwo's invulnerability. Caelum and/or Hinnom are in the same game, how lucky do you feel exactly throwing Metwo blindly at a cap point?

Second, there's already teleporting vanilla pretenders, although they're half-hidden in the trinity ones like the Crossroad's titan that has one of her forms able to teleport (and then can call the other two forms). She even has a siege bonus for a cap rush!

No i meant they were quite easy to evolve into a heavy infantry unit that likely pastes most stuff thats not a heavily blessed sacred.

Ah, you mean the machokes I suppose.

They're strong, but still lose to steel maidens for the same amount of gold. Low density really hurts them since they don't gain any new attacks so they're down to 4 attacks per square (and the low kick no longer gains bonus against regular size 2 opponents) while morale 12 is nice but means once below half they'll break soon enough. Machokes may tear through low-str stuff that struggles to hurt them, but anything with big two-handed weapons should in turn cut them down to size in a cost-effective way.

Like a good idea that likely will do at least something.
I am also still worried about how effectively they will be in defence though. In their own dominion they are suddenly +6 to a lot of stats.

Can't keep cold 3 all year long even if you take full cold scales, and magic scales aren't free.

Your getting more per cast here though. You can Luck 2 Hitmonlee, or 3 Steel maidens in a single casting.
Those 2 units are going to accomplish a lot more.

The steel maidens can be recruited in any fort up to resource/recruitent, the hitmonlee are cap only and limited to 1/turn besides costing significantly more gold. They better be accomplishing more since their logistics are a lot more intensive.

The stargazer isnt cheaper when it comes to gold/research though.
Or for that matter when it comes to research/fort turns.
Yes they have a small chance of blocking a bad even. But said event can just as easily be a nuiseance, like you lost 50% taxes in the province from flooding.
So i still think the closest reference point here is the Yogi, who gives you 7 research for 55 gold. In part because i think we already have examples of autocalc being way off?

Since it does not take certain stuff in account, but in this case I confirmed that autocalc does take in account the research bonus.

The Yogi has reincarnation that is its whole can of worms. But doesn't erase the stargazer being right there a whole 10 gold cheaper for S1 as well with Fortune Teller thrown in as extra. 10 gold is 10 gold, that's money saved every mage recruitment every turn you can invest in other stuff and still gets you a solid researcher/slave/Light of the Northen star combo piece.

If you care more about research/fort turns, again the platinium psychic loses to every other mage in Saffron city.

So that leaves only the gold/research rate as an advantage for the Platnium Psychic, which is a pretty weak point. For example Earth Readers are technically more efficient at gold/research rate than golem crafters but you still want 99% of MA Agartha's mage recruitment to be Golem Crafters because the Earth Reader sucks at everything else besides gold/research rate.

Or an even better example, players rarely bother taking magic scales when they could be taking any of the gold scales. More gold for more forts and more troops/mages is plain better than fewer mages that may research better but lag at everything else.

EDIT: Oh, also the Yogi is sacred, which allows it to be blessed, a pretty significant advantage in Dom5.

[lord_khaine]

I beg to disagree.

First, there's vanilla nations with magic weapons and then there's also stuff like Ulm and the giant nations with PD strong enough to straight out punch hard enough to overpower Mewtwo's invulnerability. Caelum and/or Hinnom are in the same game, how lucky do you feel exactly throwing Metwo blindly at a cap point?

Second, there's already teleporting vanilla pretenders, although they're half-hidden in the trinity ones like the Crossroad's titan that has one of her forms able to teleport (and then can call the other two forms). She even has a siege bonus for a cap rush!

Yes its because there are teleporting vanilla pretenders i comment on this subject.
Since the UtterVast for the exact same reason cant start awake. Since its a teleporting monster.
Unlike the crossroad who seems like a teleporting rainbow.

They're strong, but still lose to steel maidens for the same amount of gold. Low density really hurts them since they don't gain any new attacks so they're down to 4 attacks per square (and the low kick no longer gains bonus against regular size 2 opponents) while morale 12 is nice but means once below half they'll break soon enough. Machokes may tear through low-str stuff that struggles to hurt them, but anything with big two-handed weapons should in turn cut them down to size in a cost-effective way.

They seemed pretty OP when put up against any type of indies. But if they fail against the stronger human infantry then fair enough.

Can't keep cold 3 all year long even if you take full cold scales, and magic scales aren't free.

No but if you have cold 3, then its likely at least cold 2 in something like 11/12 months.
And no magic scales are not free. But this is a nation thats heavily encouraged to take them.

The steel maidens can be recruited in any fort up to resource/recruitent, the hitmonlee are cap only and limited to 1/turn besides costing significantly more gold. They better be accomplishing more since their logistics are a lot more intensive.

Hmm.. im still worried a buffed unit will tear though anything else. But fair enough, i will give it a practical try and see how oppressive it is.

Since it does not take certain stuff in account, but in this case I confirmed that autocalc does take in account the research bonus.

The Yogi has reincarnation that is its whole can of worms. But doesn't erase the stargazer being right there a whole 10 gold cheaper for S1 as well with Fortune Teller thrown in as extra. 10 gold is 10 gold, that's money saved every mage recruitment every turn you can invest in other stuff and still gets you a solid researcher/slave/Light of the Northen star combo piece.

If you care more about research/fort turns, again the platinium psychic loses to every other mage in Saffron city.

So that leaves only the gold/research rate as an advantage for the Platnium Psychic, which is a pretty weak point. For example Earth Readers are technically more efficient at gold/research rate than golem crafters but you still want 99% of MA Agartha's mage recruitment to be Golem Crafters because the Earth Reader sucks at everything else besides gold/research rate.

Or an even better example, players rarely bother taking magic scales when they could be taking any of the gold scales. More gold for more forts and more troops/mages is plain better than fewer mages that may research better but lag at everything else.

That it takes it into account doesnt always mean it does so correctly.
And yes the stargazer is a little bit cheaper. But its also a lot worse at doing research. 200 gold spend on psychics gives you more research than 200 gold spend on stargazers, while at the same time allowing you to build your research up faster.
The psychics allow you to build up research at a speed that usually require hiring mages twice their gold cost or more.
Thats really important, especially in year 0 where its much easier for you to get a mage each turn, while also still having gold left for the next expanding army.

And if the Yogi are sacred, and therefore a little harder to estimate.
Then there are also the Warlock Apprentice, who also give 7 research for 55 gold.

[tyckspoon]

They seemed pretty OP when put up against any type of indies. But if they fail against the stronger human infantry then fair enough.

There are a number of things in the game that are just incredibly unfair to indies. Standard indy troops are, not to put it too bluntly, very bad. If you want to claim something is overpowered in that context, you have to be comparing to like 50+ two-handed Barbarian provinces, 10+ Knight/Cataphract/Heavy Cavalry, Bone Tribe, and the like - the kinds of indy encounters that threaten to eat expanding pretenders and should at the very least cause significant attrition to anything that isn't wildly overpowered (absent extreme blessing on a decent sacred base unit, because there's basically no indy type that can hope to do anything to like Regenerating Blood Bond giants.)

[lord_khaine]

There are a number of things in the game that are just incredibly unfair to indies. Standard indy troops are, not to put it too bluntly, very bad. If you want to claim something is overpowered in that context, you have to be comparing to like 50+ two-handed Barbarian provinces, 10+ Knight/Cataphract/Heavy Cavalry, Bone Tribe, and the like - the kinds of indy encounters that threaten to eat expanding pretenders and should at the very least cause significant attrition to anything that isn't wildly overpowered (absent extreme blessing on a decent sacred base unit, because there's basically no indy type that can hope to do anything to like Regenerating Blood Bond giants.)

... when i say any type of indies.. then i dont mean wolf or lion tribe savages with flint weapons.

[deuterio12]

Yes its because there are teleporting vanilla pretenders i comment on this subject.
Since the UtterVast for the exact same reason cant start awake. Since its a teleporting monster.
Unlike the crossroad who seems like a teleporting rainbow.

A Rainbow that splits into a size 5, 78 HP, 22 Str and a magic weapon and another titan with Fear and battlesummons?

Sadly can't seem to find the specific code that makes the Uttervast be dormant only.

So how does it sound to remove the Mewtwo's teleport and replace it with flying and Blink?

No but if you have cold 3, then its likely at least cold 2 in something like 11/12 months.
And no magic scales are not free. But this is a nation thats heavily encouraged to take them.

True, but then the Jynx has 10 on most stats so even with full scale buffs those only goes up to 16. I could drop the defense to 12 too.

Hmm.. im still worried a buffed unit will tear though anything else. But fair enough, i will give it a practical try and see how oppressive it is.

Ok.

That it takes it into account doesnt always mean it does so correctly.
And yes the stargazer is a little bit cheaper. But its also a lot worse at doing research. 200 gold spend on psychics gives you more research than 200 gold spend on stargazers, while at the same time allowing you to build your research up faster.The psychics allow you to build up research at a speed that usually require hiring mages twice their gold cost or more. Thats really important, especially in year 0 where its much easier for you to get a mage each turn, while also still having gold left for the next expanding army.

Whatever happened to assassin expansion? Weren't you singing praises to ditching mages year 0 to spam poké-assassins?

Plus there's also the opposed view that if you're gonna spend cap turns recruiting mages, they better be actual cap mages you can't get anywhere else. In particular not that useful rushing research year 0 if all you end up with are a bunch of S1 mages to use said research. Even Psychic girls/boys may be significantly more expensive, but they'll also perform much better as combat mages if push comes to shove, not to mention search better too (another reason to get a cap mage early, start finding those juicy sites ASAP).

Cheap lab monkeys are more important mid-late game when you have more forts, and then actually being cheaper in terms of gold is pretty important.

And if the Yogi are sacred, and therefore a little harder to estimate.
Then there are also the Warlock Apprentice, who also give 7 research for 55 gold.

The Warlock Apprentice is paying for a bunch of extras like +50% HP (particularly important for a potential sabbath slave, plus significantly less likely to drop to the first random arrow), high fire resistance and heat aura.

[lord_khaine]

A Rainbow that splits into a size 5, 78 HP, 22 Str and a magic weapon and another titan with Fear and battlesummons?

Sadly can't seem to find the specific code that makes the Uttervast be dormant only.

So how does it sound to remove the Mewtwo's teleport and replace it with flying and Blink?

I dont even know why your telling that.
You of all should know HP alone wont cut it on a expander.

As for Mew. Yes that should likely do it.
Later game it can always cast TP.

True, but then the Jynx has 10 on most stats so even with full scale buffs those only goes up to 16. I could drop the defense to 12 too.

That would likely leave it a lot more managable. Since your likely using it as a defensive monster in your own dominion.
Defence 18 is strong but not unbeatable.

Whatever happened to assassin expansion? Weren't you singing praises to ditching mages year 0 to spam poké-assassins?

You asked for playtesting.
And so im pointing out all the broken options i find.

Plus there's also the opposed view that if you're gonna spend cap turns recruiting mages, they better be actual cap mages you can't get anywhere else. In particular not that useful rushing research year 0 if all you end up with are a bunch of S1 mages to use said research. Even Psychic girls/boys may be significantly more expensive, but they'll also perform much better as combat mages if push comes to shove, not to mention search better too (another reason to get a cap mage early, start finding those juicy sites ASAP).

Cheap lab monkeys are more important mid-late game when you have more forts, and then actually being cheaper in terms of gold is pretty important.

On this nation the cap mages are rather expensive at around 300 gold, and so its really going to be impossible recruiting one each turn and also build expansion armies in a timely manner.
S1 mages are meanwhile likely the most efficient 1 path combat mages. With some really efficient and low level Buffs that synergize extremely well with the recruitment locked elite units.
Hiring the psychic allowed me to get ahead on building infrastructure without getting behind on building forts year 0.
I predict being significantly ahead in research At the end of year 1.

The Warlock Apprentice is paying for a bunch of extras like +50% HP (particularly important for a potential sabbath slave, plus significantly less likely to drop to the first random arrow), high fire resistance and heat aura.

Things that while good, isnt that relevant compared to improved performance on one of its main roles.

But anyway. Im done with this topic.
I just point things that seems OP.
You can decide if you want to follow those recomendations or not.

[deuterio12]

Apologies for my slipping to rudeness, Lord Khaine. You truly have been quite the nice guy with me and I should take care to not to abuse your goodwill.

Besides the other changes, raised the platinium psyker price to 65 gp, same as basic mages with two paths at lv1.

Pokemon mod 0.702

EDIT: Gyarados was lacking amphibian and Saffron City's nurse wasn't recruitable, both fixed in pokemon 0.703

Also finally got to organizing a MP game, main thread in Steam and llamaserver but anybody here interested is welcome to join as well.

[tyckspoon]

Also finally got to organizing a MP game, main thread in Steam and llamaserver but anybody here interested is welcome to join as well.

Your Steam link is the mod download page again.

[deuterio12]

Ups, fixed.

[tyckspoon]

Started playing with the Hellenika mod pack. Played Bethel She'em (sp), popkill nation that gets a lot of thug/SC angel summons and can freespawn some with low chance. Got one of the Principality commanders early on, sent him around clearing indy provinces. Seemed safe - good HP, 25 or so prot, Awe 5. He eventually fetched up against an Ettin. Carrying a Midget Masher and a berserk cloak. Angel got 1 shot for 82 damage.

[deuterio12]

Pokémon 0.704, fixed multiple typos and magikarp desertion rate increased.

Two slots still open for the steam pokémon game.

[lord_khaine]

Besides the other changes, raised the platinium psyker price to 65 gp, same as basic mages with two paths at lv1.

Sounds like a good price. I think they are still quite viable, since i know im all the same going to recruit the heck out of them year 0 and 1.

Also finally got to organizing a MP game, main thread in Steam and llamaserver but anybody here interested is welcome to join as well.

Hmm.. and kinda a shame i almost have my hands full with my current 2 games.
Or well 1 of them is of course a little slow. While the other is starting up.

Though still think i would have liked to suggest some more quality of life improvements for the rest of the nations in the 2nd review.
A lot of them are missing TSM's, that i think are a traditional Pokemon item.

Had a few ideas there for both venosaur and Alakazam champion.
Oh well. If you end up missing a guy then i can likely find time to play a baseline nation.

[deuterio12]

Hmm.. and kinda a shame i almost have my hands full with my current 2 games.
Or well 1 of them is of course a little slow. While the other is starting up.

Though still think i would have liked to suggest some more quality of life improvements for the rest of the nations in the 2nd review.
A lot of them are missing TSM's, that i think are a traditional Pokemon item.

Well yeah the nations aren't properly polished yet but really wanted to get an actual MP match going in August. However do feel free to keep offering more of your great quality of life suggestions, even if they don't make it to this game they'll make it for the next ones.

Had a few ideas there for both venosaur and Alakazam champion.
Oh well. If you end up missing a guy then i can likely find time to play a baseline nation.

Still got those two slots open so feel free to jump in.

[lord_khaine]

Well yeah the nations aren't properly polished yet but really wanted to get an actual MP match going in August. However do feel free to keep offering more of your great quality of life suggestions, even if they don't make it to this game they'll make it for the next ones.

Ill try and look at it some more.
At the moment i was thinking the Alakazam Champion likely would want a collection of enchanted spears to animate.
Perhaps in return for a -1 astral debuff as it focuses its psychic powers.
And the Venosaur could likely use a defensive trick that gave Vineshield.

Still got those two slots open so feel free to jump in.

Trying to think about what nation is the basis for comparison in EA.
Are Ermor strong? Weak?

[deuterio12]

Ill try and look at it some more.
At the moment i was thinking the Alakazam Champion likely would want a collection of enchanted spears to animate.
Perhaps in return for a -1 astral debuff as it focuses its psychic powers.
And the Venosaur could likely use a defensive trick that gave Vineshield.

Those sound nice, I'll see about the best way to implement them.

Trying to think about what nation is the basis for comparison in EA.
Are Ermor strong? Weak?

EA Ermor is considered one of the most average nations. Neither particulary strong nor weak, nice variety of units and magic but not particularly great at anything.

[tyckspoon]

Trying to think about what nation is the basis for comparison in EA.
Are Ermor strong? Weak?

The Roman troop types are somewhere between the very definition of an 'average' troop and solidly above average, although you still pay for it in gold/resources. They distinctively almost all have Tower Shields, which means they have abnormally high Defense ratings due to the very high Parry value on those shields, and projectile-reliant troops will be very sad about it - Pewter in particular is likely to just get nowhere trying to have Geodudes attack Ermorian troops. Many of them also carry javelins, which means there's some extra damage capacity/ranged threat available to Ermor that most troop lineups don't share despite not having dedicated archer troops.

Also some nasty tricks/emergency army creation that can be done with the Gladiators - the net ones are good for taking down larger enemies/cavalry that would otherwise be hard to hit or damage, and the flail ones can provide damage to punch through higher protection and burn through high-HP units. So troop lineup I would say is above average verging on 'strong', although in non-traditional ways - you don't have obviously very high protection/strength/base stats the way like Ulm or giant nations do, but there are definite advantages over like baseline indy heavy infantry and non-Roman troops.

Mage lineup is.. nothing special, and I would say actually kind of weak for EA. Wide if random path access through Flamens, but all of it low level. Your most reliable access is F/A, so you're looking at like batteries of Mind Burn communions or just spot-painting troops with Ethereal and Luck as your basic magic support. Augur Elders can random Wind, so later on you can plan on having Wailing Winds/Winds of Death as part of your tactics, castable either from gearing with booster items, getting reallly lucky on randoms, or just throwing them in a communion and not worrying too much about the fact that you're going to kill the slaves by casting a high-fatigue off-path spell.

[The Hellbug]

The Roman infantry units also sometimes have abnormally high map move for human medium infantry which can be a lifesaver sometimes. I usually overall consider them 'above average' for human troops. Most of the Roman nations lean on these solid, well-costed infantry while having holes elsewhere in their lineup (lack of archers, cavalry, or proper elites).

I personally think that EA Ermor is the best-positioned to use these troops just because of how they compare to the rest of the age and the fact that sacred shroud equites are a good elite, sacred cavalry.

[lord_khaine]

Well alright.. fine.. im throwing Ermor into the mix.
Lets see how the pokemon nations handle slightly above average human infantry.
And also just how well im screwed over by pokemon assasins and assasin spells.

[deuterio12]

Great, went with Vermillion City and started the game. Also made a last-minute patch since it was pointed out that Psychic University's path was too low, so remember to download it: Pokemon 0.706!

[Glimbur]

I am recruiting for an unusual game. Pick any nation you like, choose any recruitable units for it (with some rules). Also, 3 bonus bless points for every nation in every path and scales matter more too. 3ish spots left, organized on Althaea's discord https://discord.gg/dkTsyQ7

[lord_khaine]

So far the test is progressing pretty quietly.
I overlooked how few we are on the map.
So i guess it will be a while before we see any actual wars.

[deuterio12]

Yeah, maybe I should've picked something a bit smaller but nobody complained about map choice.

Saffron City has been reported as bumping into both Cerulean and Celadon city early on, with peace seemingly having prevailed but their expansion being pretty poor at only 7 provinces now.

Pewter city not doing so good with expansion either at only 10 provinces with the first year almost over.

Fuschia city commented in the steam thread that they've been mostly just spamming ekans and arboks in their cap, not sure what their plan is with that exactly but their expansion has been the weakest at only 4 provinces.

[tyckspoon]

So far the test is progressing pretty quietly.
I overlooked how few we are on the map.
So i guess it will be a while before we see any actual wars.

Peliwyr can actually be very crowded with only 3 or even just 2 provinces between start sites, especially if nobody opted to be UW or is making heavy use of amphibious troops to claim the water provinces. (I don't think any of the Pokemon nations are set for coastal start preference, tho, so it's possible the ones with good amphibious capabilities didn't start on the lakes.) If you're feeling like you still have room to expand you may have just gotten lucky in being placed near one of the start areas that is unused thanks to having fewer players than the recommended max capacity.

.. don't know somebody manages to only be recruiting 3 units a turn with these nations, tho, unless you managed to find somebody who didn't immediately notice the 'max Order trash Production' thing..? Hmm. Well, maybe Pewter if you're stuck on recruiting Onyxes, but you can have an expansion party of 1 of those and take provinces, the weakest link is the commander and even then a berserking Onyx will just kill its way through the indies and claim the province for you.

[deuterio12]

Peliwyr can actually be very crowded with only 3 or even just 2 provinces between start sites, especially if nobody opted to be UW or is making heavy use of amphibious troops to claim the water provinces. (I don't think any of the Pokemon nations are set for coastal start preference, tho, so it's possible the ones with good amphibious capabilities didn't start on the lakes.) If you're feeling like you still have room to expand you may have just gotten lucky in being placed near one of the start areas that is unused thanks to having fewer players than the recommended max capacity.

Cerulean city is set as a coastal nation, but the only one so far. They also were the first ones getting a fort so they may've rushed an UW one.

.. don't know somebody manages to only be recruiting 3 units a turn with these nations, tho, unless you managed to find somebody who didn't immediately notice the 'max Order trash Production' thing..? Hmm. Well, maybe Pewter if you're stuck on recruiting Onyxes, but you can have an expansion party of 1 of those and take provinces, the weakest link is the commander and even then a berserking Onyx will just kill its way through the indies and claim the province for you.

Well two Arboks are 180 recruitment points, and if they indeed didn't tke Order 3 for max recruitment points then that would eat a good chunk of their cap capacity. Even then some 4 arboks and some screening chaff should be enough to be taking provinces. And yeah Pewter city could be getting an Onyx per turn so really not sure what happened with them, gotta remember to ask them more detail when the game is over or they're out of the picture.

[lord_khaine]

Saffron City has been reported as bumping into both Cerulean and Celadon city early on, with peace seemingly having prevailed but their expansion being pretty poor at only 7 provinces now.

Pewter city not doing so good with expansion either at only 10 provinces with the first year almost over.

Fuschia city commented in the steam thread that they've been mostly just spamming ekans and arboks in their cap, not sure what their plan is with that exactly but their expansion has been the weakest at only 4 provinces.

Alright.. my scouting has been awful because i didnt find any scout provinces.
And my expansion had a lot of hiccups because of bad indie types and stupid terrain (caves).
But im still at 19 provinces. Perhaps i should go mercy kill Fuschia, Cerulean and Celadon.

Peliwyr can actually be very crowded with only 3 or even just 2 provinces between start sites, especially if nobody opted to be UW or is making heavy use of amphibious troops to claim the water provinces. (I don't think any of the Pokemon nations are set for coastal start preference, tho, so it's possible the ones with good amphibious capabilities didn't start on the lakes.) If you're feeling like you still have room to expand you may have just gotten lucky in being placed near one of the start areas that is unused thanks to having fewer players than the recommended max capacity.

Tell me about it. I was in the 10 player disciple game we had in Peliwyr.
It felt like a knife fight in a phonebox
.. with a pair of rabid badgers thrown in to increase tension.

.. don't know somebody manages to only be recruiting 3 units a turn with these nations, tho, unless you managed to find somebody who didn't immediately notice the 'max Order trash Production' thing..? Hmm. Well, maybe Pewter if you're stuck on recruiting Onyxes, but you can have an expansion party of 1 of those and take provinces, the weakest link is the commander and even then a berserking Onyx will just kill its way through the indies and claim the province for you.

Yeah. It is really basic testing to find out you need Order 2-3.
And preferebly tons of trashy pokemon. If your not hitting 15+ provinces without an awake expander then the nation isnt close to being played to its full potential.

[tyckspoon]

Alright.. my scouting has been awful because i didnt find any scout provinces.
And my expansion had a lot of hiccups because of bad indie types and stupid terrain (caves).
But im still at 19 provinces. Perhaps i should go mercy kill Fuschia, Cerulean and Celadon.

That would be the power play, yes. Just swamp them under waves of gladiators or something, sounds like at their current state you won't even need to do anything fancy.

[deuterio12]

Alright.. my scouting has been awful because i didnt find any scout provinces.
And my expansion had a lot of hiccups because of bad indie types and stupid terrain (caves).
But im still at 19 provinces. Perhaps i should go mercy kill Fuschia, Cerulean and Celadon.

Graphs are turned on in case you missed it, less need for scouts.

And yeah you still expanded pretty well despite "a lot of hiccups", so who knows maybe the pokemon nations aren't that OP and you're just that much of a dominions pro, you'll expand well with anything!

Also Celadon doing pretty well and Cerulean not so shabby, it's Pewter and Saffron that seem to be struggling along Fuschia. And well after your complains that things are too peaceful, you could totally start a war so I can backstab you.

EDIT: In the meanwhile, getting a feeling that Vermillion city doesn't get enough evolutions so was thinking about making some for the pikachu variants (heavy Raichu, Raichu Runner, flying Raichu, Raichu Thunderer). Anybody has an opinion on that?

[lord_khaine]

That would be the power play, yes. Just swamp them under waves of gladiators or something, sounds like at their current state you won't even need to do anything fancy.

Gladiators is of course a bad choice here. Since the bastards dont do much work.

But i did miss the bit about graphs. Im so used to them being turned off by default i newer though about checking.
All the same, i guess the expansion graph does show im more experienced than a large majority of the pokemon nations.
Allmost worried it will affect the datapoints. But all the same, i will save screenshots of relevant fights and bumps.