Results 211 to 240 of 1457
-
2019-03-17, 09:04 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
As far as we know, they did work during the trial.
Were any of the statements made by beings "in the chair" covered by the spells, proven to be false? Intentionally false - a lie, rather than a "mistake of fact"?Last edited by hamishspence; 2019-03-17 at 09:43 AM.
Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
New Marut Avatar by Linkele
-
2019-03-17, 10:14 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Gender
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
Well, the statement by the being of pure Law and Good that it was, indeed, such a being was demonstrably false when it turned out to be Eugene casting an illusion.
-
2019-03-17, 10:16 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
It wasn't exactly in the Zone of Truth though. Wasn't the Zone put up after his appearance?
First appearance of disguised Eugene:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0267.html
First appearance of Chair of Truth:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0271.htmlLast edited by hamishspence; 2019-03-17 at 10:19 AM.
Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
New Marut Avatar by Linkele
-
2019-03-17, 10:25 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2018
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
Plus Hinjo had no idea it was not one that came through. Shojo himself never said anything.
And technically, he did summon a being of pure good and law. It's just not one that came through. :PLast edited by Resileaf; 2019-03-17 at 10:26 AM.
-
2019-03-17, 12:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2014
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
Give directly to the extreme poor.
-
2019-03-17, 12:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Washington D.C.
- Gender
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
-
2019-03-17, 03:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2018
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
Didn’t Miko not really have any way of knowing quite the extent of what was faked and what was true? Obviously deciding to execute Shojo herself was going too far, but not trusting the order made sense to me.
-
2019-03-17, 03:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2014
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
Give directly to the extreme poor.
-
2019-03-17, 03:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
- Location
- In a castle under the sea
- Gender
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
She didn't have any way of knowing if the laws were corrupt, because a corrupt book of laws could be made to look exactly like a good one to Miko's eyes.
I don't have any way of knowing if the world is a simulation, because a simulation could be made to look exactly like a real world.
The question Miko should have asked is if there was enough reason to doubt the validity of the law and whatnot. But she's Miko, so she didn't.
-
2019-03-17, 03:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2018
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
Well based on what she overheard it was obvious that Shojo was manipulating the legal system to collaborate with the order behind the paladins’ backs, it just wasn’t clear the extent to which it was occurring or what had/hadn’t been lied about. Executing Shojo was going too far, but I think distrusting the order made sense.
-
2019-03-17, 04:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2014
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
I would strongly suspect that Azurite law does not make specific provision for rigging the outcome of a trial and springing convicted murderers from prison. And I could easily imagine that Miko has memorised every regulation and bylaw currently in force in Azure City, including those she doesn't like. ("Floggings for pickpockets!? Far too lenient in my view.")
Give directly to the extreme poor.
-
2019-03-17, 05:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
- Location
- In a castle under the sea
- Gender
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
-
2019-03-17, 06:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Washington D.C.
- Gender
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
I'd be surprised if it wasn't covered under a litany of other laws (obstruction of justice is the most obvious one right off the bat, aiding and abetting, accessories after the fact, I'm sure an actual lawyer could point out other very common laws most states employ).
I know it's a fantasy world where thousand-lb dragons fly and shoot fire from their mouths while casting magical spells, but the lines gotta be drawn somewhere. And a cop (even an elite one backed by the gods) knowing all criminal laws is miles past wherever that line is drawn.Last edited by Peelee; 2019-03-17 at 06:09 PM.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
-
2019-03-17, 07:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- Gender
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
@ Pelee: What's the name of the cop in Disc world who remembers every law in the book?
Boytoy of the -Fan-Club
What? It's not my fault we don't get a good-aligned female paragon of promiscuity!
I heard Blue is the color of irony on the internet.
I once fought against a dozen people defending a lady - until the mods took me down in the end.
Want to see my prison tatoo?
*Branded for double posting*
Sometimes, being bad feels so good.
-
2019-03-17, 07:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Washington D.C.
- Gender
-
2019-03-17, 07:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2017
- Location
- France
- Gender
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
-
2019-03-17, 08:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2014
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
If Hinjo is running the show, this implies that Shojo has already been arrested and the Order have been detained for (re)trial. This particular debate was about whether arresting Shojo and the Order would be justified in the first place.
GreatWyrm seemed to be trying to argue that Miko had no way of distinguishing between corrupt and non-corrupt laws, and I was simply pointing out that Azurite law almost certainly didn't make specific exceptions for... all the stuff you've mentioned. In other words, Shojo's criminality was totally obvious by then, regardless of how the laws worked.
I know it's a fantasy world where thousand-lb dragons fly and shoot fire from their mouths while casting magical spells, but the lines gotta be drawn somewhere. And a cop (even an elite one backed by the gods) knowing all criminal laws is miles past wherever that line is drawn.Give directly to the extreme poor.
-
2019-03-17, 08:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
- Gender
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
Given that Shojo did not fake a trial under Azurite law at all, but rather independently in his position as head of the Sapphire Guard, its unlikely that Azurite law has anything at all to say about his actions.
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
-
2019-03-17, 08:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Washington D.C.
- Gender
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
I was with you until the last sentence. Criminality is by definition regarding how the laws work.
Kidnapping, if Azurite law does not consider the Sapphire Guard a legal authority with international jurisdiction, and obstruction of justice et al if Azurite law does. Probably fraud, depending on how they define it, misuse of public funds may be a thing there, and hell, throwing more charges than are necessarily warranted against the wall to see what sticks is not an uncommon tactic.Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
-
2019-03-17, 08:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2014
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
Okay, but I just mean it's highly unlikely that Shojo had distorted his own code of laws to the point where what he was caught doing was actually legal.
Kidnapping, if Azurite law does not consider the Sapphire Guard a legal authority with international jurisdiction, and obstruction of justice et al if Azurite law does. Probably fraud, depending on how they define it, misuse of public funds may be a thing there, and hell, throwing more charges than are necessarily warranted against the wall to see what sticks is not an uncommon tactic.Last edited by Lacuna Caster; 2019-03-17 at 08:57 PM.
Give directly to the extreme poor.
-
2019-03-17, 08:59 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Washington D.C.
- Gender
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
Oh, totally agree on that.
Sure they can; to turn around how he put it, Shojo is the leader of the Sapphire Guard, but separately the Lord of the City. Even if both are legally authorized, because he wears two hats he can be caught up in conflict of interest which could lead to being in an actionable position without the SG being tethered along.Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
-
2019-03-17, 09:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2014
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
The positions and organisations themselves may be legally authorised (though if the Guard's existence itself is supposed to be closely hidden, I'm not clear on how.) The question is whether Shojo committed some manner of crime himself by ordering his underling/s to (potentially) violate national boundaries in pursuit of suspects whose alleged crimes can't actually be explained without revealing state secrets. And if he did, Miko would be an accessory to the crime.
Give directly to the extreme poor.
-
2019-03-17, 09:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
- Gender
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
-
2019-03-17, 09:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Washington D.C.
- Gender
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
-
2019-03-17, 09:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
- Gender
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
Whats your point? No, stickworld is not a perfect 1:1 match for medieval Asian governments, but the alternative is to just throw our hands up and scream that theres nothing at all we can do here to come to any conclusion.
If nothing else, if it was illegal for Shojo to arrest the Order under Azurite law, then it would also be illegal to arrest Shojo under Azurite law, prior to having found him guilty at a trial.“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
-
2019-03-17, 09:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Washington D.C.
- Gender
-
2019-03-17, 09:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
- Gender
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
-
2019-03-17, 10:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Washington D.C.
- Gender
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
-
2019-03-17, 10:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
- Gender
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
-
2019-03-17, 10:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Washington D.C.
- Gender
Re: What if... Miko never killed Shojo?
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2