MS Paint Adventures 6:12

[AgentPaper]

Wikipedia is something made by helpful, knowledgeable humans who altruistically wish to help each other out by posting helpful information on the internet.

Trolls (at least, alternia trolls) are bloodthirsty warmongers who want to beat everyone else and prove their own superiority.

I can't imaging such a race spending all that much time helping each other learn how to use their magical blood powers. They seem much more likely to hoard any kind of knowledge for themselves, especially useful information on the specifics of how their caste powers work.

Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if the older jadebloods kept the whole rainbow drinker thing a secret on purpose. Having a secret power your opponent doesn't know about can be a huge advantage, and jadebloods don't need to be the target of genocide to get into a fight.


Of course, all of this is headcanon, but then so is troll wikipedia or troll Yahoo Answers or Troll Google or whatever source you think she would have for this. It's simply not explained, because it's not all that important to the story. That doesn't mean it's bad writing or a plot hole, it simply means that there's no need to explain every piece of troll culture and society.

[Fayd]

So guys, I'm doing a thing. Any help you can provide would be great.

[Draconi Redfir]

"What are my abilities as a ______ Blood?"

To a six-sweep old jadeblood who doesn't need to worry about being drafted for many sweeps to come, in a society where different members of the same caste can have vastly different psionic or vision abilities from every other member of the exact same caste? Is it really that difficult to assume the thought "gee, i haven't been able to lift things with my mind, i can't talk to zombies, i can't see through walls, but i can survive in the sunlight without going blind. guess i don't have anything else special about me" after six sweeps of life?

Have you ever googled “what are my abilities as a *Insert Ethnicity here*?

Which is my point: Why did she think they where works of fiction if they where real?

Because those rainbowdrinker books she was reading were broadcast as works of fiction and everything else relating to rainbowdrinkers broadcast them as works of fiction, much the same way vampires and werewolves are to us? What if you woke up three months from now and found out you've been an incubus or something all this time and it just didn't assert itself until then. Would it really be fair for me to ask "well why didn't you check to see if you were one sooner"?

WOW! I have telepathy, and my buddy super strength! But glowing in the dark! Thats just worth GENOCIDE over.

Glowing in the dark, being able to survive in the sunlight when everyone else is sleeping, being able to survive getting your guts blown out, quite possibly improved speed and strength, the lack of a need for any sustenance aside from blood every now and then, the ability to attack and drain fellow trolls of their blood while appearing completely normal otherwise...

Again: How? Why? How can she support herself with her spine destroyed? Is it regeneration? Do they have exoskeletons? So many questions.

Wizard did it? /joke

This is a poor explanation considering that lots of other abilities exist MUCH better then hers on other troll types. Both higher and lower caste.

And they aren't dead.

This is true, however keep in mind i am not a troll nor am i the writer of their culture. i am merely proposing a possible hypothesis on the matter due to lack of knowledge on the topic in full. We must also take into account that the jadeblood caste by in fact be rather frail, it was stated in Kanaya's introduction that jadebloods were quite rare, it's possible there are only a hundred or so of them alive at a time, most if not all of which may be housed on Alternia to tend to the mother grubs.

[Scowling Dragon]

To a six-sweep old jadeblood who doesn't need to worry about being drafted for many sweeps to come, in a society where different members of the same caste can have vastly different psionic or vision abilities from every other member of the exact same caste? Is it really that difficult to assume the thought "gee, i haven't been able to lift things with my mind, i can't talk to zombies, i can't see through walls, but i can survive in the sunlight without going blind. guess i don't have anything else special about me" after six sweeps of life?

Yes it is. If you have a rare bloodcolor, then you find out what it does.

Have you ever googled “what are my abilities as a *Insert Ethnicity here*?

No, but I don't come from a species that has superpowers.

Would it really be fair for me to ask "well why didn't you check to see if you were one sooner"?

Thats not my point.

Why is this fiction?

being able to survive in the sunlight when everyone else is sleeping,

Just get a protective suit. It mustn't be THAt tough if stuff can still grow under it.

being able to survive getting your guts blown out

This is impressive, but we have seen trolls able to destroy you WHOLE. Plus explosives exist.

quite possibly improved speed and strength,

No proof for that. We only saw her kick a dude in the junk.

the lack of a need for any sustenance aside from blood every now and then,

No proof/ You would still require a form of sustanance/ Why would anybody care about that COMBO!

the ability to attack and drain fellow trolls of their blood while appearing completely being normal otherwise...

.......Can't every troll do that?

[Cavelcade]

Scowling Dragon, you're doing it again. I am having trouble deciding whether or not your point is valid because there's so much "I'm-smarter-than-you" in your posts again.


I think it probably isn't, though. This is pretty standard vampire stuff, I don't see why you're questioning it. In a lot of works of fiction, vampires work very hard to make everyone else believe they're a fiction, as it makes their lives much easier. Why not do the same here? To paraphrase The Usual Suspects: "The greatest trick the Rainbow drinkers ever pulled was convincing the world they didn't exist."

[Jayngfet]

Scowling Dragon, you're doing it again. I am having trouble deciding whether or not your point is valid because there's so much "I'm-smarter-than-you" in your posts again.


I think it probably isn't, though. This is pretty standard vampire stuff, I don't see why you're questioning it. In a lot of works of fiction, vampires work very hard to make everyone else believe they're a fiction, as it makes their lives much easier. Why not do the same here? To paraphrase The Usual Suspects: "The greatest trick the Rainbow drinkers ever pulled was convincing the world they didn't exist."

It can't be used here simply because it's the wrong context. Vampires are hard to believe simply because the world is relatively "normal". Humans have mutations and diseases but it's rare for you to be STRONG, and impossible for even half the strength Equius has. It's impossible for you to have psychic powers. You can't just pick up objects with your mind.

In Alternian society, genetic abilities are so all over the place and crazy that something like a blood drinking re-generator is practically ordinary. It's completely within the realm of possibility simply because pretty much EVERY crazy power seems to be in the realm of possibility and spread out enough across caste's that pretty much every troll knows that a whole lot is possible, even if they don't know which caste has what power or even how many powers there are or aren't.

To speculate for a bit, Jade Bloods seem to be the RAREST blood color. This means they're rarer than imperial heirs, and possibly even rarer than red mutants. Other heirs get mentioned and we did see another(dead) royal Lusus in the mix. According to Vriska there are "hundreds" of hemospectrum symbols, but Sollux lives in a city so there are probably THOUSANDS of trolls active at any one time. They're rare enough to risk losing a Mother Grub over.

But Jade's are inherently different. They're active when other Trolls can't be. Jade bloods are rarer than royals and secluded by their own biology. Any that exist are by nature going to be secluded, and if Kanaya is an example secluded in an area so dangerous you might lose imperial drones going after them. The amount that both live to adulthood and wind up drafted in the army is low enough that adult rainbow drinkers CAN'T be more than a handful over history. Add to that the fact that they can evidently hide what they are if need be, and it's clear why nobody can really pin down what they can or can't do.

[Cavelcade]

Well, yes, but even further you can't pin down that they even exist. None of the other troll-castes have been particularly subtle about their powers. While absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, it does definitely raise a significant eyebrow and maybe even glance significantly in that direction.

[Fayd]

Alternatively, there's a difference between Castes and Blood Castes. There could be thousands of Jadebloods, but only a few Virgos. Millions of Rustbloods, but relatively few Aries's. Billions of goldbloods, but two Gemini.

Rainbow Drinkerism may be a Virgo and a few other Jadeblood Caste thing, but not a thing for ALL Jadebloods.

[Jayngfet]

Alternatively, there's a difference between Castes and Blood Castes. There could be thousands of Jadebloods, but only a few Virgos. Millions of Rustbloods, but relatively few Aries's. Billions of goldbloods, but two Gemini.

Rainbow Drinkerism may be a Virgo and a few other Jadeblood Caste thing, but not a thing for ALL Jadebloods.

I misspoke about the particular number. However the point stands in that Jade, in and of itself, is the rarest(outside Limeblood, which may or may not be an actual thing). This is outright stated. We can't really nail it down to any more specific until we actually see a different Jade symbol, or different royal symbols, or different blue symbols. We only have like ...two rust bloods, two royals, two blue bloods, and everything else is either an inbetween or it's own thing.

I mean, I'm not saying there aren't other symbols with their own powers, but that's hard to nail.

The Condesence apparently has that item that replicates blood abilities, so hopefully she'll pull out a symbol or power we haven't seen and we can continue trying to figure this out.

[AgentPaper]

The line of logic you should be taking isn't, "Kanaya doesn't know about jadebloods. I think trolls would have troll wikipedia and/or troll google. Therefore, there is a plot hole!" While it may seem likely that trolls would be able to develop something similar to wikipedia, or google, that's not proof that such a thing must exist.

The correct line of logic is, "Kanaya doesn't know about jadebloods. If troll wikipedia and/or google existed, she would know about jadebloods. Therefore, troll wikipedia and/or google must not exist/be readily available to Kanaya."

[Jayngfet]

The line of logic you should be taking isn't, "Kanaya doesn't know about jadebloods. I think trolls would have troll wikipedia and/or troll google. Therefore, there is a plot hole!" While it may seem likely that trolls would be able to develop something similar to wikipedia, or google, that's not proof that such a thing must exist.

The correct line of logic is, "Kanaya doesn't know about jadebloods. If troll wikipedia and/or google existed, she would know about jadebloods. Therefore, troll wikipedia and/or google must not exist/be readily available to Kanaya."

Honestly though that's just splitting hairs. Trolls have troll anime and trolls have their own internet and trolls have their own trading card games and trolls have their own analogue to pretty much every aspect of modern life, except these being more bloody and violent on average.

The idea that Trolls would have their own Trollipedia isn't exactly hard to assume. They have an internet and are compatible with literally every other human data format right out. If they didn't have some kind of online knowledge database available to them it'd be a glaring, and therefore noteworthy, flaw in their system.

[Androgeus]

You know all this discussion of whether Trollapedia exists is kinda pointless, wouldn't Kanaya have someone she could ask about her abilities close by? like say some kind for grubby mother?

[Jayngfet]

You know all this discussion of whether Trollapedia exists is kinda pointless, wouldn't Kanaya have someone she could ask about her abilities close by? like say some kind for grubby mother?

Eh, that would assume her Lusus actually KNOWS any of this. A Mother Grub is kind of something we know very little about. We know there's at least three of them and they have a connection to the Jade Bloods and are in some way related to the lusii. But we don't know what defines a Lusus(a mother grub and a horrorterror count evidently), if they are taught anything beforehand, or if it's just personal knowledge they just instinctively know.

[AgentPaper]

Honestly though that's just splitting hairs. Trolls have troll anime and trolls have their own internet and trolls have their own trading card games and trolls have their own analogue to pretty much every aspect of modern life, except these being more bloody and violent on average.

The idea that Trolls would have their own Trollipedia isn't exactly hard to assume. They have an internet and are compatible with literally every other human data format right out. If they didn't have some kind of online knowledge database available to them it'd be a glaring, and therefore noteworthy, flaw in their system.

Just because they have some things that we do, doesn't mean that they have all of the things we do. This is a culture without parents, for glubbing sake. It's not hard to imagine that they don't have other things.

[Jayngfet]

Just because they have some things that we do, doesn't mean that they have all of the things we do. This is a culture without parents, for glubbing sake. It's not hard to imagine that they don't have other things.

They have substitute parents. They don't have the same stuff we do, they have their own version of what we do. They have their own internet running off insect computers, they have a bloodthirsty tcg, they have LARP's where people actually die, they have parents with spikes and claws and scales. It would stand that they have like, a wikipedia where they need to fight some kind of page-ogre to get information or something similar.

[AgentPaper]

They have substitute parents. They don't have the same stuff we do, they have their own version of what we do. They have their own internet running off insect computers, they have a bloodthirsty tcg, they have LARP's where people actually die, they have parents with spikes and claws and scales. It would stand that they have like, a wikipedia where they need to fight some kind of page-ogre to get information or something similar.

But see, you're just making stuff up now. There's no plot hole until you make up troll google and troll wikipedia. It may seem logical for it to exist, but it's still something you made up. And if you can make up a reason for why Kanaya should have known about her powers, then other people can make up reasons for why she shouldn't have known about her powers. And there's plenty of very logical-seeming reasons why she wouldn't.

For example, I could guess that only some small percentage of jade bloods turn into rainbow walkers, which is why Kanaya thought that they were fake and thus didn't know she would turn into one, or how to use her powers. That seems perfectly logical to me, but it's no more canon than troll google is.

[Calemyr]

Maybe I'm a little late to the Jade Blood debate, but I thought I might as well share my theory on the matter and hear how wildly off the mark I am.

Assume for a moment that Jade Bloods are a mutation, just as Candy Bloods are. They seem to be just as rare, the only difference being that Jade is high enough on the spectrum that it is accommodated for. This may be for everyone else's self interest, however.

Assume also that the Jade Blood/Mother Grub symbiosis isn't a default arrangement. That, like the Candy Bloods, arrangements have to be made for them because they aren't part of the usual order.

Now imagine that Jade Bloods are not naturally benevolent trolls. Imagine that, without any lusus inclined to adopt them, Jade Bloods grow to maturity underground. And more to the point, that their food source of choice was young trolls (pre- and post-metamorphosis). That a Jade Blood's natural state is, in fact, that of a Rainbow Drinker.

Suddenly the luminescence isn't a defensive fault, it is an offensive asset. Young trolls are driven to seek the surface, with light being the dominant indication of available means. A glowbulb Rainbow Drinker would thus be something like an angler fish, abusing their instincts to draw prey to her.

Now we have a serious problem on our hands. With Rainbow Drinkers being so devastating to the reproduction cycle, some form of accommodation must be made. As mutations they can't be hunted to extinction, as they'll just keep popping up (think the Architect's theory from the Matrix Trilogy).

So, in a manner similar to Equius's Aurthour (whose breed is the only one capable of withstanding even the gentlest pats from Equius), a virgin mother grub is set aside for Jade Blood wrigglers. It's this grub's duty to guide a Jade Blood's development into a different offshoot - one of benefit to the grubs rather than detriment.

After all, even in Alternia, a lot of the culture is bent around warping destructing tendencies towards constructive (or less devastating) ends, such as moirallegience, auspisticism, and sopor slime.

So: how nonsensical is that theory?

[Jayngfet]

But see, you're just making stuff up now. There's no plot hole until you make up troll google and troll wikipedia. It may seem logical for it to exist, but it's still something you made up. And if you can make up a reason for why Kanaya should have known about her powers, then other people can make up reasons for why she shouldn't have known about her powers. And there's plenty of very logical-seeming reasons why she wouldn't.

For example, I could guess that only some small percentage of jade bloods turn into rainbow walkers, which is why Kanaya thought that they were fake and thus didn't know she would turn into one, or how to use her powers. That seems perfectly logical to me, but it's no more canon than troll google is.

I'm not saying that Kanaya knew. Hell, I argued against the idea earlier. What I'm objecting to is the idea that Trolls have no sort of public data storage despite having everything needed to make it and enough information around that it'd be natural. The idea that it does or doesn't exist isn't the issue, it's that Troll Society is close enough in terms of information technology if nothing else for such a thing to exist as a default. Similar to how they evidently have flash players good enough to look through youtube videos, software capable of editing animated .gifs, and enough online games to keep players entertained. It would stand to reason that Trolls have an equivalent of Youtube, use animated .gif files to a reasonable extent, and enough connected NPC trolls to keep servers populated with games and players(of these games, not SGrub). We don't need to see that they exist directly because evidence pointing to it has been observed.

snip

Seems reasonable enough as a biology lesson, but the only problem is I don't really think the Empress would care enough to spare Jade Bloods if this was the case. A Virgin Mother Grub strikes me as being a BIG asset to expend, even if they get a matriorb to try again it'd be years and years later with risk of it being destroyed. Whatever she'd get out of letting them live, it'd need to be something major to compensate. I mean you must remember the Empress is a self centered, vicious, cruel lady who doesn't much care for the sanctity of young life.

[Draconi Redfir]

Spoiler

Show

Maybe I'm a little late to the Jade Blood debate, but I thought I might as well share my theory on the matter and hear how wildly off the mark I am.

Assume for a moment that Jade Bloods are a mutation, just as Candy Bloods are. They seem to be just as rare, the only difference being that Jade is high enough on the spectrum that it is accommodated for. This may be for everyone else's self interest, however.

Assume also that the Jade Blood/Mother Grub symbiosis isn't a default arrangement. That, like the Candy Bloods, arrangements have to be made for them because they aren't part of the usual order.

Now imagine that Jade Bloods are not naturally benevolent trolls. Imagine that, without any lusus inclined to adopt them, Jade Bloods grow to maturity underground. And more to the point, that their food source of choice was young trolls (pre- and post-metamorphosis). That a Jade Blood's natural state is, in fact, that of a Rainbow Drinker.

Suddenly the luminescence isn't a defensive fault, it is an offensive asset. Young trolls are driven to seek the surface, with light being the dominant indication of available means. A glowbulb Rainbow Drinker would thus be something like an angler fish, abusing their instincts to draw prey to her.

Now we have a serious problem on our hands. With Rainbow Drinkers being so devastating to the reproduction cycle, some form of accommodation must be made. As mutations they can't be hunted to extinction, as they'll just keep popping up (think the Architect's theory from the Matrix Trilogy).

So, in a manner similar to Equius's Aurthour (whose breed is the only one capable of withstanding even the gentlest pats from Equius), a virgin mother grub is set aside for Jade Blood wrigglers. It's this grub's duty to guide a Jade Blood's development into a different offshoot - one of benefit to the grubs rather than detriment.

After all, even in Alternia, a lot of the culture is bent around warping destructing tendencies towards constructive (or less devastating) ends, such as moirallegience, auspisticism, and sopor slime.

So: how nonsensical is that theory?

Ooohhh i like this idea!

@Jayng, maybe it wasn't the curent Empress that did it? Could have been one of the previous Empresses who post-scratch Meenah just grew up with and as such saw no reason to change.

[Jayngfet]

Ooohhh i like this idea!

@Jayng, maybe it wasn't the curent Empress that did it? Could have been one of the previous Empresses who post-scratch Meenah just grew up with and as such saw no reason to change.

WAS there even a previous Empress(or Emperor, we don't know if gender is specified in this specific way)?

I mean, the point of the Empress is that she's essentially immortal and that so long as she says near her Lusus she's pretty much invincible. The only reason she didn't slaughter Feferi like every previous contender was because, quite simply she was too far away, in a manner I don't think an Empress from thousands to hundreds of thousands of years ago before that kind of expansion would have been.

Any previous Empress would need to have been before Gl'bgolyb appeared simply because of the range and that it evidently defaults to the senior troll. Since we don't know when exactly this particular Lusus appeared, we can't exactly guess at specifics like that.

[AgentPaper]

Troll Internetz.

Yes, it's certainly within their capabilities to do so. It's also in their capabilities to build the Eiffel Tower, but that doesn't mean they did.

More likely than not, there is some kind of troll equivalent of google and wikipedia, but my point wasn't that such things were impossible, but that they aren't canon.

[Jayngfet]

Yes, it's certainly within their capabilities to do so. It's also in their capabilities to build the Eiffel Tower, but that doesn't mean they did.

More likely than not, there is some kind of troll equivalent of google and wikipedia, but my point wasn't that such things were impossible, but that they aren't canon.

Yeah, but you're not getting the distinction.

The Eiffel Tower thing is mostly irrelevant. Outside individual dwellings no troll buildings have been discussed.

The Troll Internet though needs to operate under a specific set of assumptions. It's something that by default needs to be compatible with the human internet and comparative to it more than anything else simply because for about 90% of the story it's the only way the trolls were able to communicate.

I'm not saying it's out and out canon, just that it's a thing that most probably exists simply because all evidence points to the Troll's 'net being the thing that's most immediately comparable to our equivalent.

[Scowling Dragon]

It doesn't matter mostly. Im just bugged by the presentation. Making a mystery to only reveal the mystery to be pointless. Why have it in the first place? Because Hussie fudged up the planning.

And Im too disconnected to the comic to care enough to make an elaborate headcannon to explain the mistakes away.

Thats the kinda logic that bugs me:

People may say "You view yourself smarter then everybody" whilst I view you saying "Your dumber then the rest of us"

That hussie NEVER makes mistakes. All stupid things that would NEVER fly in any other comic or piece of media are praised or quickly excused.

"Its not HUSSIE that made a mistake. Your just stupid for not getting this elaborate evidence free theory/ Not getting the GENUIS that is Hussie."

Is the impression I get sometimes.

[Jayngfet]

It doesn't matter mostly. Im just bugged by the presentation. Making a mystery to only reveal the mystery to be pointless. Why have it in the first place? Because Hussie fudged up the planning.

And Im too disconnected to the comic to care enough to make an elaborate headcannon to explain the mistakes away.

Thats the kinda logic that bugs me:

People may say "You view yourself smarter then everybody" whilst I view you saying "Your dumber then the rest of us"

That hussie NEVER makes mistakes. All stupid things that would NEVER fly in any other comic or piece of media are praised or quickly excused.

"Its not HUSSIE that made a mistake. Your just stupid for not getting this elaborate evidence free theory/ Not getting the GENUIS that is Hussie."

Is the impression I get sometimes.

This tends to be the feeling I also get from ...a large number of people, and I sometimes catch myself doing it from time to time. They project a little bit, or make little headcanon scenes to flesh out characterization characters never actually got. Or else claim that opportunities exist or don't exist that make the situation better or worse(beyond just the obvious).

We need to, sometimes, be brutally honest about what MSPA can and can't do. It CAN be generally entertaining. We also need to recognise that it's character development is terrible. I mean there's no real excuse when you don't develop characters, then spend a whole bunch of time just making slightly different versions of those characters.

I mean, Horuss and Cronus could have been obvious developments on Equius and Eridan. They were similar enough but different that you could explain them as just being the originals who changed even just offscreen slightly. Instead a whole lot of time was wasted establishing new flat characters who behave in exactly the same way except for one or two concepts the originals never really got the chance to explore. Or hell, Damara would have been a way more interesting character if there wasn't some kind of implied Chucklevoodoo affecting her simply because watching a person sink that low can be both believable and gut wrentching. Heck, just bring up the Lost Weeaboos a bit more simply because it's really the first time any Player has brought up the idea that they have an actual life beyond the same handful of people and outside their own house.

Don't try to sell me on the idea that character development isn't funny, don't make excuses whenever Hussie misses his mark, and for the love of god please don't argue about minutiae that don't matter and even you obviously aren't sure of. Hussie makes mistakes. EVERYONE makes mistakes. What's important is that we know to pick a hair out of our metaphorical soup instead of stopping everything for some kind of big stink nobody wanted or planned for. Some days I just want the waiter to admit the hair exists and to try not to get more in next time.

[Science Officer]

On the rainbow-drinker thing, it seemed plausible to me at the first reveal. Subsequent developments on it are a little nonsensical and uninteresting.

We need to, sometimes, be brutally honest about what MSPA can and can't do. It CAN be generally entertaining. We also need to recognise that it's character development is terrible. I mean there's no real excuse when you don't develop characters, then spend a whole bunch of time just making slightly different versions of those characters.

I mean, Horuss and Cronus could have been obvious developments on Equius and Eridan. They were similar enough but different that you could explain them as just being the originals who changed even just offscreen slightly. Instead a whole lot of time was wasted establishing new flat characters who behave in exactly the same way except for one or two concepts the originals never really got the chance to explore. Or hell, Damara would have been a way more interesting character if there wasn't some kind of implied Chucklevoodoo affecting her simply because watching a person sink that low can be both believable and gut wrentching. Heck, just bring up the Lost Weeaboos a bit more simply because it's really the first time any Player has brought up the idea that they have an actual life beyond the same handful of people and outside their own house.

Very true. Unfortunately it seems the only sort of character development Hussie believes in is characters developing into corpses.
But we are getting some now mostly with the kids, and maybe also with the surviving trolls?

[Draconi Redfir]

WAS there even a previous Empress(or Emperor, we don't know if gender is specified in this specific way)?

I mean, the point of the Empress is that she's essentially immortal and that so long as she says near her Lusus she's pretty much invincible. The only reason she didn't slaughter Feferi like every previous contender was because, quite simply she was too far away, in a manner I don't think an Empress from thousands to hundreds of thousands of years ago before that kind of expansion would have been.

Troll civilization is both extremely old, and extremely advanced, and considering we know Evolution does indeed play a factor in the homestuck multiverse (not counting for sburb-made characters), then there would have been a time where Trolls have not-yet evolved or weren't entirely Trolls yet, for these periods at the very least, having a full-fledged and fully-evolved troll empress would just be silly! There must have been other empresses (likely of Eridain's caste as it was the highest at the time) for several millennia at least, then when the Empress arrived (the first of her own caste) her super-high blood marked her as next-in-line no exceptions, and since her caste was all but ageless, her reighn was the longest in existence.

Any previous Empress would need to have been before Gl'bgolyb appeared simply because of the range and that it evidently defaults to the senior troll. Since we don't know when exactly this particular Lusus appeared, we can't exactly guess at specifics like that.

We know the Doc Scratch appeared long before any life had formed on Alternia, as that's when Bec appeared on Earth. There has never been a time in which Doc Scratch was NOT a part of Alternian history, therefore it's not illogical to assume Gl'bglyb was around just as long, or at the very least until large sea life was around for her to feed on.

[AgentPaper]

Yeah, but you're not getting the distinction.

The Eiffel Tower thing is mostly irrelevant. Outside individual dwellings no troll buildings have been discussed.

The Troll Internet though needs to operate under a specific set of assumptions. It's something that by default needs to be compatible with the human internet and comparative to it more than anything else simply because for about 90% of the story it's the only way the trolls were able to communicate.

I'm not saying it's out and out canon, just that it's a thing that most probably exists simply because all evidence points to the Troll's 'net being the thing that's most immediately comparable to our equivalent.

But see, what I'm saying is exactly that it's not out and and out canon. Thus, no matter how likely it may seem to you, it's still headcanon.

I'm not saying that Hussie is a genius, I'm simply saying that conflicts created by headcanon are not plot holes. Exactly in the same way that plot holes resolved by headcanon are still plot holes.

[BRC]

Somebody, and I think it may have been somebody on this thread, said something very true: Hussie isn’t a Wizard. He’s a Magician.

As a coherent story, Homestuck does not work. Well, it works, in that it functions, but it doesn't work well. It introduces unnecessarily complex rules, it’s pacing is terrible, character development doesn't happen, or does only after the bulk of that character’s story is over. Unnecessary things receive massive, lengthy exposition, while plot-crucial details are usually shown in a few seconds of a Flash, then explained months later.
A good portion of the original trolls were only peripheral to the plot, Hussie had to make them to fill out the Zodiac theme he had going on. It seems like all but maybe three Beforian trolls are also one-note gag characters who only exist to fill out the pattern. The Pacing is terrible, plot threads get forgotten and buried underneath a tidal wave of narrative, ect ect.

It would take a wizard to pull off a story of the complexity of Homestuck. And Hussie is no wizard.
He is, however, a magician, and a very good one at that.

He keeps us entertained moment to moment, whether it’s with exposition, or shipping bait, or callbacks to earlier panels or SBaHJ, and like a good magician. Like a good magician, he plays the crowd, changing his act as people respond. Like a good magician he hints at things and lets the audience fill in the details.

[Scowling Dragon]

He keeps us entertained moment to moment, whether it’s with exposition, or shipping bait, or callbacks to earlier panels or SBaHJ, and like a good magician. Like a good magician, he plays the crowd, changing his act as people respond. Like a good magician he hints at things and lets the audience fill in the details.

Exactly. And for me, his act has been going on for way too long. SO long that I have both begun to see the strings, and am no longer impressed by the razzle dazzle.

But whatevs. As long as he entertains somebody then that makes his comic worthy.

I just wish that all of its amazing work was pushed towards a tighter, better plot.

Hussie COULD be a Wizard. He would just have to make his act smaller. But he prefers the big crowd, so he has to resort to smoke and mirrors.

[Squark]

I think the real issue here is not that Hussie likes the big crowd (He didn't see this sort of response coming, and he's a bit embarrassed about the attention he gets in public), but that he likes being a magician, as it was. He wants to write a big, epic story, that is ultimately rather silly and mostly a fun thing for people to read.

That being said, the question for you, Scowling Dragon is, "What now?" I don't think a wild shift in focus would be good for homestuck, and Hussie's got a few years left of Homestuck between the game and the comic. Maybe the next project he's occasionally alluded to will better suit your tastes. Maybe not. All I'm going to recommend from here is that you try not to be "That guy" who seems like he doesn't want other people to have fun.