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2012-10-02, 03:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III:
Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Chat thread three is here and with it, a whole fifty pages of fun and pink-orange-yellow fruits! Whoo!
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Current Contest - Will Breed for Class
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Past Chat Threads
Last edited by Temotei; 2014-08-16 at 05:58 PM.
Homebrew
Please feel free to PM me any thoughts on my homebrew (or comment in the thread if it's not too old).
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2012-10-02, 04:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Cross posting so that this isn't lost in the thread transfer.
Spoiler
Whelp, let's get to it.
Thoughts on the Fluff:
Couple things stand out: First off, 'Foolish Fools' is a bit redundant. Chose one.
Secondly, the order of the sections is off, and you're missing some of the sections.
Thoughts on the Mechanics:
Main thing I notice here is that it's pretty much the same chassis as the Cleric. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but that can provide a modest boost in power, as it gives full casters more options.
The first effect is pretty powerful: might want to tone down or excise it. The secondary effect isn't so much powerful as it is troublesome. Why not just have them be Arcane effects that aren't subject to Spell Failure?
Okay, it's a point based caster, with a somewhat limited spell list. A couple edits I made to improve clarity(imo) are made in red.
Personally? I think this is a bit powerful: conjuration is an extremely powerful school, and necromancy has some good stuff as well. Divination tends to be more variable, depending on the DM's rules, but it's still quite good as well. adding another school on top of this? Very, very powerful. Combined with a power point system of casting, as well as an Euridite method of spells prepared, and I think this is horribly overpowered. I'd say you need to reduce some combination of spells known, unique spells per day, and power points.
Oh, and technically right now Spirit points never disipate. That means every time you rest when you aren't exhausted, you're increasing your spirit point pool. This is game breaking and needs to be fixed.
Though, I thought I should ask, did you intend to leave transmutation out of the list of schools available to chose?
Interesting, and not too complicated. Though, do the various bonuses and penalties stack?
Also, I feel this makes the power point module even harder to balance.
Useful and flaverful, and not overpowering.
What about beings without class levels, or those with a mix of class and racial hit dice?
I think it's a pretty powerful ability, especially with the loose limit it has.
Bonus feat, not too much to worry about. Not familiar with the feat, so can't say much, though I notice you didn't include the standard 'whether they qualify for it or not'. Is that not a concern for this feat?
Undead Tactics: :snip:
All tactics are standard actions. A Shade Channeler may use one Horde Tactic, Platoon Tactic and Commander Tactic every 5 rounds.
Spirit Boon: At fourth level the Shade Channeler can use his powers to enhance the undead under his control. By spending a number of spirit points indicated by the boon he can enhance an undead with a spirit boon he has available. He starts with 1 spirit boonsat 4th level and gains 1 ever other level after, chosen from the list below. A particular undead can only have a single boon at a time. Undead can have an additional boon applied at 10th level and an additional boon every 6 levels after. :snip:
I'm not sure what you mean by the llast two sentences there. Did you change your mind, or did you mean that a given undead can only have 1 boon at 4th, and an additional one every 6 levels after(2 10th, 3 at 16th)?
Efficient Control: (Ex) Whenever the Shade Channeler attempts to rebuke an undead creature he can treat his HD as a number of HD lower equal to the number indicated by Efficient Control.
Horde Empowerment: (Ex) :snip:
Bonus Feat :snip:
Form of Death: (Ex)At 12th level the Shade Channeler gains a deflection bonus to ac equal to his charisma modifier. At 18th level the Shade Channeler gains the ability to see in all forms of magical and non magical darkness. In addition the Shade Channeler gains a profane bonus on fort saves equal to his charisma modifier.
Transfer Target: (Su)
Soul Tether: (Su)
Alternate Source: (Ex)
Soul Tether seems fine, though.
Alternate Source needs some clarification. Is it instead of the normal double spirit point cost, or in addition to. Basically, is it 3x spell level or 6x spell level?
Custom Horde: (Ex) At 10th level the Shade Channeler has gained insight on how to animate particular undead. At 10th level he gains the ability to animate an undead creature or template with the create undead or create greater undead spells. The Shade Channeler can choose a custom creature to animate at 13th level and every 3rd level after. The Shade Channeler can choose any undead creature with a CR equal to his class level - 4. Thus at 10th level he can choose to animate a creature with CR 6 or lower, at 13th level he can select a creature with CR 9 or lower, etc. For templates the template selected must have a cr increase of 1/2 of his class level - 6. Thus at level 10 he can select a template that has a cr increase of +1, at level 13 he may select a template that has a cr of +2 or less.
Dread Army: (Su)
Horde Perfection: At 14th level the Shade Channeler becomes more adept at animating undead and can now animate skeletons and zombies with HD higher than 20 with animate dead. In addition he can specialize in either skeletons or zombies. If he specializes in Skeletons they gain a bonus to hit equal to the Shade Channeler's charisma modifier and any Spirit Boons applied to them only costs half as many spirit points. If the Shade Channeler specializes in Zombies, all Zombies created by the Shade Channeler lose their single action only ability and gain 2hp/hd and +4 strength.
Improved Dread Army: (Su) At 16th level the Shade Channeler's ability to temporarily animate slain foes improves. This ability functions as Dread Army except you can choose to either animate the slain creature as a zombie or you can animate them as a corpse creature. If you animate the creature as a corpse creature the duration is 1 round/5 class levels.
Embodiment of Death: (Ex)
Improved Spirit Capacity
Flavor text. You are more adept at absorbing the energy of the world's dead.
Prerequisites: Spirit Channeling, Shade Channeler class level 6.
Benefits: You gain an additional Spirit Point per class level whenever you rest and regain Spirit Points.
Special: This feat can be taken multiple times. It's effects stack.
Improved Spell Calling
Flavor text. You are very efficient at calling a particular spell.
Prerequisites: Spirit Channeling, Shade Channeler class level 6.
Benefits: Select one spell the you can cast. When calling that spell you do not have to pay Spirit Points to call the spell. This spell still counts against the number of spells you can have called of a certain level.
Special: This feat can be taken multiple times. Each time you must select a different spell.
New Spells
Lesser Animate Dead
Thoughts on Tactics and Spirit boons:
Making this it's own section because there are enough of them.
Coordination Tactics: These seem fine.
Bulwark Tactics: Minor issues with Improved Defensive Line and Pawn Shield. The former I'd either make it horde, or more preferably change the bonus to deflection or the like. The latter should probably last more than one round, but also needs to note what happens when the undead is destroyed(yes, somewhat obvious, but the less chance for confusion the better). Also, you should probably just have it be against the Undead's AC: otherwise, what about effects that are normally touch attacks and the like?
Retribution Tactics:Explosive retribution should have a time limit, though multiple turns wouldn't be out of line. For Counter attack, is the cost of the attack one AOO, or do you get to make two attacks(one normal attack, one AOO)? Wordings not clear.
Hampering Tactics:You probably need to specify that these special tactics only last one round. Disabling attack needs a much easier save, and should probably limit the number of saves one target needs to make. Distracting attack needs to specify if the target need to be in the zone the creature threatens. Crippling strike is too strong: speed reduction lasts too long, and -6 to dex is huge, especially since it's not a penalty it appears it can stack. Need to limit the number of saves on target must face because of this ability. Pinning rush seems a bit strong, as with the number of undead you can get this basically is an instant grapple. Probably need to limit the size of the bonus granted, as well as not eliminate AOO's.
Swarming Tactics:The latter 2 seem okay, but the first two have some problems with timing. Essentially, if two undead are effected by this, and both attack a target in the same round sequentially, how do you determine the bonus? And if they do it at the same time?
Spirit Boons:
Enduring Boons: Eternal undead seems a bit strong. Probably should cap the raises given.
Resistance Boons:Good, except there seems to be 1 error: Profane Reflexes gives the mettle ability(I think you want evasion).
Mobility Boons:Perfect Teleporting Bones seems very strong. Probably should be a move action or something.
Mage Slaying Boons:The last effect, the anitmagic sphere? Too Strong, especially for it's cost.
Swarming Boons: Seem good.
Powerful Boons: My main issue is with Profane Size. Seems like it's a bit too much: It's Powerful Blows+Improved Strengthen Flesh+Strengthen Flesh, plus two addition natural weapon size increases, for a total of 3. That's quite a bit extra, and it costs the exact same.
Ranged Boons: The two ranged projectile abilities are kinda odd: the range increment rules don't seem to be followed. You only have one range increment, not 2 different ones.
Final Notes:
You seem to not always have abilities labeled with tags (Ex, Su, Sp, Ps).
For a decently diverse Full Caster, this has a tone of powerful abilities. I'd suggest toning it down a bit.He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
-James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose
Satomi by Elagune
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2012-10-02, 04:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
And on that note, curse y'all entrants of BCC XIII for being so many of you.
So. Much. Tiering.Homebrewer's Signature | Avatar by Strawberries
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2012-10-02, 05:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Thank you for the Peach I greatly appreciate it.
First off I should mention that the balance point for this class is supposed to be Tier 1. So it IS supposed to be strong and able to compete with clerics and wizards. Still I do think I went a bit overboard.
On your comments:
Chassis: It's skills are a bit better and I didn't feel it should be a martial class. Its not quite the same as the cleric as it doesn't have access to any armor heavier than light.
Spells: Eh I honestly might just remove the first ability. I initially thought it would be an interesting fluff ability but it seems a bit clunky now and I need to weaken the class anyway. Also for the reason that the spell list isn't arcane while ignoring arcane spell failure is that I didn't want them producing scrolls. With their ability to learn spells from an entire school and cast spontaneously they could give a wizard ally almost any spell they want from the Divination, Necromancy, Conjuration or other schools.
Spirit Channeling: Thanks for wording corrections, sometimes I am not quite clear with my words. The main inspiration was a point based system similar to the Spirit Shaman. The reasons for the school choices were this, Necromancy (Obvious), Conjuration (Summon Undead + Teleport), Divination (Seemed to fit the fluff of calling on spirits. Ask for their help/knowledge). I personally dislike the transmutation school so yes that was an intentional omission. Though to be honest I didn't realize it was the ONLY school I omitted. I probably will remove enchantment as this class has enough ways of getting minions.
On the overpowered aspect I can agree. I wanted a system where the caster had limited sustainability compared with other casters (This class has tactics to make up for it). And to be able to increase their versatility in exchange for their sustainability and vise versa. I think I will cap it at 3 spells called each day for each level, the same as the Spirit Shaman. I also will move divination to the extra school section. So they only start with Conjuration and Necromancy and can select either, evocation, divination, illusion or abjuration.
On the areas of death: Yes it makes it more complicated and a bit harder to balance. As you could have a campaign with an incredibly high death rate from a plague or similar and make this class's power skyrocket. I think I shall add a note that says the DM can ignore this section if it would unbalance a particular campaign.
Soul Harvest: It doesn't check wether creatures have class levels or not so not sure why a being having or not having class levels would matter It gives the Spirit Points based on the Shade Channeler's class level thus a 4th level Shade Channeler gains 2 spirit points per each death to a maximum of 4 in one round. I will however, add a clause preventing the Shade Channeler from killing bags of rats to for this.
Corpse Crafter: The feat doesn't have prerequisites so it didn't make a difference.
Undead Tactics: Ya I should of clarified. You can use a horde tactic in round 1 and then have to wait 5 rounds to use another horde tactic. Then in round 2 you can use a commander tactic and wait 5 rounds till you can use another commander tactic. I will clarify.
Spirit Boons: I meant that at 4th they can only have 1 applied at a time. I will clarify
Efficient Control: "He" is supposed to be the Shade Channeler. Assume a 6th level Shade Channeler attempts to rebuke a ghoul (2 HD 2 Turn Resistance). The Shade Channeler can treat the ghoul as having 1 less HD (Thus 1 HD 2 Turn Resistance or 2 HD 1 Turn Resistance) and would thus command the ghoul. Also the ghoul would only take up 3 HD in the Shade Channeler's Command Undead Pool instead of the normal 4. If someone else attempted to turn or rebuke the ghoul it would still be treated as if it has 4 HD. Does that make it clearer?
Horde Empowerment: Hm, I don't honestly see a problem with switching the amount of undead he can control. I should clarify that if he has more undead under his control then his pool allows he loses the excess undead. Its mainly there to help someone who wants to specialize in skeletons and zombies or commanded undead.
Bonus Feat: Yes I will add that part.
Aspect of Death: Hm, I would normally argue that the ac bonus doesn't matter that much as its a common type. But since I need to weaken the class anyway and it is just a boost I will weaken it. The fort save one will probably stay though, as at 18th level (I will clarify thats when you get the ability) the Shade Channeler will more than likely be undead (And thus lose his constitution modifier).
Transfer Target: Perfect version of dispel magic not sure what you mean by that. It only works on targeted spells (not rays and the like).
Alternate Cost: Its 6 X Spell Level. I will note this.
Custom Horde: I will fix the wording issues. Also good point on the uselessness of greater create undead. I shall make it so that any undead higher than a certain CR will only be able to be animated by greater create undead.
Dread Army: Zombies stop being effective around this level. Also this doesn't really work on any humanoid creature or a creature with class level. I don't think summoning a temporary stone giant zombie is worth a 7th level spell. As summon monster VII can create a bone creature that can cast wall of ice, dimensional anchor, fly, major image all at will. I did notice that they become better with destructive retribution so I am capping the amount of zombies out at once and nerfing the duration.
Horde Perfection: Zombies and skeletons stop being as effective around this level. However, I overdid this a bit. I am going to reduce the bonuses.
Improved Dread Army: This one might be a bit overpowered. Corpse Creature is a template from BOVD, I will mention that. The Duration on this one is fine. I think I will limit it so that only one corpse creature can be active at a time.
Embodiment of Death: The bonuses are the same type as what you would get when you gain a specific template. Though on second thought I made this waaaay more convoluted than I needed to. Changed it so that the Shade Channeler becomes a Lich upon reaching level 20 or a template he can animate with animate custom horde.
Improved Spirit Capacity: This should be fine now. Its nothing more than a scaling extra slot feat. (20 Spirit Points = 1 9th level spell and 1 1st at 20)
Tactics:
Defensive line should be horde I agree.
Pawn Shield should be fine lasting only 1 round. Undead can soak up a LOT of damage so I don't want to make it last for too long. Its also a move action so the Shade Channeler can do other things that round. I will work on something for touch attacks though. I forgot about them.
Explosive Retribution: It does have a time limit, 1 round. I guess I didn't make it clear I will improve it's clarity.
Disabling Strike: I was supposed to change that. Its supposed to be (10+Bab+Shade Channeler's Charisma Modifier). I think I might change that to 1/2 the Shade channeler's HD too.
Distracting Strike: Will add the must be threatened part.
Crippling Strike: Is supposed to be a commander tactic. I think its fine for a single strike every 5 rounds.
Swarming Assualt/Volley: Assuming 5 undead attack a subject. First one gets +0, Second gets +1, Third gets +2, Fourth gets +3, Fifth gets +4. I know it seems weird when looking at it in Real Time but isn't that how it normally happens in D&D combat?
Boons:
Eternal Undead I figured was fine since it only applies to zombies and skeletons and most of the time they will not even be useful within the same encounter. I am going to add a clause that killing them with good aligned or holy weapons will permanently destroy them though.
Profane Reflexes: Will fix that thank you.
Perfect Teleporting Boon: Yes I think a move of standard action would be better. I think I forgot how soon you can get it.
Mage Slaying: Ya I agree. Do you have any good idea for another mage slaying boon? I couldn't think of anything else. Will remove this one till I get a better idea.
Profane Size: I will look at it again. I think I might of just kept adding to that one without paying attention to what it already had.
Ranged: Hm, well I always though longbows and crossbows had an initial range and then a range increment. Learn something new everyday. I will edit those.
All in all thank you for the very indepth review. It helped greatlyAwesome Avatar by Derjuin
My Homebrew: Here
The Necromantic Codex: A collection of necromancy classes, items and monsters.
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2012-10-02, 05:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Might I suggest that the contest winner, and not just the winning entry, be placed in the table for ease of reference?
Avatar courtesy of Ceika.
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2012-10-02, 06:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Homebrew
Please feel free to PM me any thoughts on my homebrew (or comment in the thread if it's not too old).
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2012-10-02, 07:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
SpoilerAh, mistook it to be based on the creatures hd. Your method does need some balance point.
Cool: don't have the book with that feat, so I wasn't sure.
Efficient Control: "He" is supposed to be the Shade Channeler. Assume a 6th level Shade Channeler attempts to rebuke a ghoul (2 HD 2 Turn Resistance). The Shade Channeler can treat the ghoul as having 1 less HD (Thus 1 HD 2 Turn Resistance or 2 HD 1 Turn Resistance) and would thus command the ghoul. Also the ghoul would only take up 3 HD in the Shade Channeler's Command Undead Pool instead of the normal 4. If someone else attempted to turn or rebuke the ghoul it would still be treated as if it has 4 HD. Does that make it clearer?
Horde Empowerment: Hm, I don't honestly see a problem with switching the amount of undead he can control. I should clarify that if he has more undead under his control then his pool allows he loses the excess undead. Its mainly there to help someone who wants to specialize in skeletons and zombies or commanded undead.
Aspect of Death: Hm, I would normally argue that the ac bonus doesn't matter that much as its a common type. But since I need to weaken the class anyway and it is just a boost I will weaken it. The fort save one will probably stay though, as at 18th level (I will clarify thats when you get the ability) the Shade Channeler will more than likely be undead (And thus lose his constitution modifier).
Transfer Target: Perfect version of dispel magic not sure what you mean by that. It only works on targeted spells (not rays and the like).
Dread Army: Zombies stop being effective around this level. Also this doesn't really work on any humanoid creature or a creature with class level. I don't think summoning a temporary stone giant zombie is worth a 7th level spell. As summon monster VII can create a bone creature that can cast wall of ice, dimensional anchor, fly, major image all at will. I did notice that they become better with destructive retribution so I am capping the amount of zombies out at once and nerfing the duration.
This is too good. Period.
Improved Spirit Capacity: This should be fine now. Its nothing more than a scaling extra slot feat. (20 Spirit Points = 1 9th level spell and 1 1st at 20)
You do know that a scaling extra slot feat is perhaps one of the most powerful things you could give a caster? What's worse, this is an arcane caster who isn't limited by a certain number of spells per day of a given level. At level 20, it'd be easy for a Shade Channeler to cast 22 9th level spells. Psionics gets away with this because it's balanced around the system, but this is Arcane casting: these spells aren't.
Pawn Shield should be fine lasting only 1 round. Undead can soak up a LOT of damage so I don't want to make it last for too long. Its also a move action so the Shade Channeler can do other things that round. I will work on something for touch attacks though. I forgot about them.
Disabling Strike: I was supposed to change that. Its supposed to be (10+Bab+Shade Channeler's Charisma Modifier). I think I might change that to 1/2 the Shade channeler's HD too.
Crippling Strike: Is supposed to be a commander tactic. I think its fine for a single strike every 5 rounds.
In that case, the speed loss should still be lowered, time wise: have it be on a 5 round timer, if you must, but one minute is a bit much. The Dex thing is problematic as well: how long does it last(currently it lasts forever), and what kind of reduction is it?
Even then, I think it may very well be a bit much, even at only once/5 rounds.
Swarming Assualt/Volley: Assuming 5 undead attack a subject. First one gets +0, Second gets +1, Third gets +2, Fourth gets +3, Fifth gets +4. I know it seems weird when looking at it in Real Time but isn't that how it normally happens in D&D combat?
Eternal Undead I figured was fine since it only applies to zombies and skeletons and most of the time they will not even be useful within the same encounter. I am going to add a clause that killing them with good aligned or holy weapons will permanently destroy them though.
Mage Slaying: Ya I agree. Do you have any good idea for another mage slaying boon? I couldn't think of anything else. Will remove this one till I get a better idea.Last edited by Tavar; 2012-10-02 at 07:59 PM.
He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
-James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose
Satomi by Elagune
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2012-10-02, 08:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Already on your third thread? Congratulations!
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2012-10-02, 11:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Homebrew
Please feel free to PM me any thoughts on my homebrew (or comment in the thread if it's not too old).
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2012-10-06, 02:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Well the site cut out when I was 99% done with the updates on the Shade Channeler >.> Time to redo that next fix. Will respond to your comments soon Tavar.
Awesome Avatar by Derjuin
My Homebrew: Here
The Necromantic Codex: A collection of necromancy classes, items and monsters.
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2012-10-11, 03:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Guardian Angel is up. PEACHes appreciated.
My Homebrew (Free to use, don't even bother asking. PM me if you do, though; I'd love to hear stories).
Avatar done by me (It's Durkon redrawn as Salvador from Borderlands 2).
Nod, get treat.
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2012-10-11, 05:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
This is cool. A few suggestions though:
- Maybe add an ability modifier to your number of bonded allies. It'll be a drop in the bucket at high levels, but it lets you bond to the whole party at 1st.
- I'd remove the set definition of betrayal. As written it looks like, say, if the party's wizard catches the Guardian Angel in a fireball, it's a permanent removal of the bond. Betrayal should be defined by the Guardian Angel in the situation...and perhaps should not permanently remove the bond. It seems like forgiveness should be possible for this class.
- I'd also maybe loosen up the restriction about not being able to attack bonded allies, probably to disallowing lethal damage, ability damage or drain, negative levels, or other forms of lasting harm. As it stands, it could be interpreted as not allowing you to, say, grapple an ally to prevent it from setting off a trap, or something.
Swift Aid: The Guardian Angel may aid another as a swift action instead of a standard action.
Summoned (Su): A Guardian Angel’s bonded allies may summon her to their sides with a swift or immediate action. The Guardian Angel must be conscious and willing to answer their call. She is made aware of her ally’s situation when they attempt to summon her. She appears in any open square of her choosing adjacent to the bonded ally who made the call. She cannot be called if there isn’t room. Answering the call is an immediate action on the part of the Guardian Angel. Eventually, she gains the ability to answer more than one summons in a round at levels 8, 13, and 18 (effectively, she gains an additional immediate action which can only be used to answer a summons). She may bring along any gear and equipment she can carry. She can even bring a mount along with her if her mount is also a bonded ally.
Path: Guardian Angels have different methods to achieve the goal of protecting their friends. They may choose the paths of melee, ranged, defense, stealth, and magic. They gain a new path ability at levels 3, 7, and 11, then they may choose a second path at level 15 and gain a new path ability in their second path at level 19
Melee:
Spoiler1st ability: the Guardian Angel gains Power Attack as a feat if they do not already have it. She may choose any feat she meets the prerequisites for if she already has Power Attack. Any time they hit an enemy while using Power Attack, any bonded allies who attack the same opponent before the Guardian Angel’s next action may add the same bonus to their damage rolls without taking a penalty.
2nd ability: When performing a Power Attack against a foe that has successfully damaged one of the Guardian Angel’s bonded allies in the previous round, the Guardian Angel may subtract a number from her melee attack rolls and add twice that number to her damage rolls. If she is using a weapon in two hands, she adds three times the penalty. As per her first melee path ability, any bonded allies who attack the same opponent may also add that number to their damage rolls until the Guardian Angel’s next action without taking a penalty, provided that the Guardian Angel successfully hits that opponent.
3rd ability: The Guardian Angel gains the Pounce ability when making a summoned charge.
Ranged:
Spoiler1st ability: The Guardian Angel never takes a penalty for shooting into a melee or grapple that one of her bonded allies is involved in, nor can she ever hit them accidentally. Likewise, her bonded allies will never hit her if they shoot into a melee or grapple that she is involved in or hit her accidentally. Her bonded allies are not protected by this ability if they shoot into each others’ melees or grapples, however.
2nd ability: The Guardian Angel may coordinate any adjacent bonded allies to attack a single target with ranged weapons. They must all make full attacks with ranged weapons, and act on the Guardian Angel’s turn (only bonded allies behind the Guardian Angel in initiative order can participate). Everyone involved gains a +2 bonus to attack and damage rolls per bonded ally involved, to a maximum of +16 for 8 bonded allies (This is the maximum even if the Guardian Angel is size large or larger and can be adjacent to more than 8 bonded allies). All bonded allies take the same range increment penalty as the Guardian Angel, even if they are not using weapons with the same range increment. Only bonded allies who can actually attack the intended enemy count.
3rd ability: Adjacent bonded allies gain the benefits of any feat related to ranged combat that the Guardian Angel has.
Defense:
Spoiler1st ability: When a Guardian Angel fights defensively or takes the total defense action, all adjacent bonded allies gain the same bonus to their armor class. At 10th level, the bonus to AC for fighting defensively or taking the total defense action doubles. At 17th level, it triples.
2nd ability: When an adjacent bonded ally is struck in melee, a Guardian Angel may use an immediate action to redirect the damage to herself. She may choose to either take half damage, or pin the opponent’s weapon/limb for a moment, allowing all adjacent bonded allies to make an attack of opportunity on that opponent. To use this ability, she must be in a space threatened by the opponent who attacks her bonded ally.
3rd ability: A Guardian Angel may occupy the same space as a bonded ally without any penalties. Using the second defense path ability is a free action if a bonded ally in the same space as her is attacked. You may now be summoned into a bonded ally’s space with the summoned ability.
Stealth:
Spoiler1st ability:
The Guardian Angel gains 2d6 sneak attack. She may now be summoned into a space anywhere within 30 ft of a bonded ally.
2nd ability: The Guardian Angel’s sneak attack increases to 4d6, and if she and a bonded ally are flanking an opponent, her and her bonded ally’s sneak attack dice increase to d8’s, including any sneak attack dice she may have from multiclassing.
3rd ability: The Guardian Angel’s sneak attack increases to 6d6, and if she and a bonded ally are flanking an opponent, her bonded ally adds four dice to their sneak attack damage, even if they do not have the sneak attack ability.
Magic:
Spoiler1st ability: The Guardian Angel may share spells and deliver touch spells for any bonded ally who can cast spells, as if she were their familiar (even if the bonded ally is a divine caster), as long as the spell doesn’t have the Evil descriptor. She grants a +2 bonus to caster level checks to overcome Spell Resistance to any adjacent bonded ally.
2nd ability: If the Guardian Angel uses her Swift Aid ability to help a bonded ally who casts a spell before the Guardian Angel’s next action, the spellcaster casts her next spell at +2 caster level, unless it has the Evil descriptor, in which case the spell is cast at -1 caster level. When a bonded ally casts a beneficial spell which can affect multiple targets, the Guardian Angel does not count against the total number of targets.
3rd ability: The Guardian Angel may be the point of origin for any of her bonded allies’ spells, as long as they do not have the Evil descriptor. She must be conscious, willing, and able to perform the somatic or verbal components of the spell. This does not count as an action for her. Rays or touch spells use her base attack bonus to determine whether or not they hit. In any round in which the Guardian Angel has been used to cast a spell, she adds a +nd6 bonus to her damage rolls with melee or ranged attacks, where n equals the level of the most powerful spell she channeled that round.
Summoned Attack (Su): When the Guardian Angel is summoned by a bonded ally, she may make a free attack at her highest base attack bonus against any opponent she threatens in her new location.
Vengeance: If a bonded ally of the Guardian Angel dies or is dropped to negative hitpoints, she is immediately summoned to the space they last occupied, unless she perceives the situation to be suicidal (such as if they died in a pool of lava, or were killed by an overwhelming foe). This does not count against her per-round limit on the Summoned ability. She may attempt to use the Heal skill on them as a swift action. When attacking a creature that killed or dropped one of her bonded allies, every successful attack by the Guardian Angel is treated as a critical threat.
Commune (Su): The Guardian Angel may communicate with any of her bonded allies who have died. They can provide her any information they had in life. What they might be able to report about the afterlife is up to the DM.
Summoned Charge (Su): When the Guardian Angel uses her Summoned Attack ability, she may now count it as a charge. Most feats or abilities that affect charging apply, but certain ones, such as Leap Attack, do not, since it requires them to jump a certain horizontal distance.
Improved Aid: When using the aid another action, the Guardian Angel grants a +4 bonus instead of a +2 bonus.
Phase (Su): After being constantly summoned to help her friends, the Guardian Angel eventually finds a way to remain in the place between places for an indefinite amount of time. As a free action, she disappears to a place that is not part of any plane and cannot be found by non-epic magic. She cannot return on her own, however, and must be summoned by one of her bonded allies. She does not age or need food or air while she is phased, nor does any time pass for her while she is phased. Thus, any spells or status ailments that affected her when she phases do not affect her until she returns, and their durations are halted. She may not take any actions while phased except for communicating with her bonded allies.
Greater Aid: The Guardian Angel now grants a +6 bonus when using the aid another action.
Vengeance II: When attacking a foe who killed or dropped one of her bonded allies, the Guardian Angel treats any successful hit as a confirmed critical. Against opponents who are normally immune to critical hits, she still treats successful hits as a critical threat, and they are affected as normal.
Superior Aid: The Guardian Angel now grants a +8 bonus when using the aid another action.
Vengeance III: The Guardian Angel gains 2 additional multipliers to her critical hits when attacking an opponent who killed or dropped one of her bonded allies, and her weapons gain the vorpal special ability against them, even if they are not slashing weapons.
General Impressions:
This class looks excellent. I love the flavor of the mechanics, although a bit more descriptive flavor might be useful. As a general point of formatting, it's nice to include what level the abilities are gained at in their entries. I think the big theme in several of my suggestions is to make it so higher-level Guardian Angels are more like...the commanders of a unit, so some of the benefits they gain with bonded allies are shared among the bonded allies. Mainly just to strengthen the class's theme for the contest. Of course, that's all just opinion and ideas, not sure how it would really work in practice.
Anyway, great job!A role playing game is three things. It is an interactive story, a game of chance, and a process in critical thinking.
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2012-10-11, 07:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
My class, the Legion Magus, could also use a peach and maybe an image. I haven't been able to find a free one.
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2012-10-11, 07:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
i've been having that problem for a while now
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2012-10-12, 10:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
sorry I've not been on for a while guys, work took over for a while. I will try to start another peachathon at some point over the next few days (all things willing). I cant say exactly when as I'm still finishing things off but I will try to start before the end of the weekend.
Who knows maybe I will get some work done on my own class as well. lolOMFGWTF!!
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2012-10-12, 11:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Quellian-dyrae, thanks for a very prompt, thorough, and positive PEACH. I will commence the re-evaluation based on your suggestions.
Edit: I made a few minor changes, mostly along the lines you suggested. The Guardian Angel's charisma bonus now helps a few of her abilities (and forms the limit for the magic path's capstone). My changes to the stealth path actually seem to have made it weaker, however. Would just increasing the amount of sneak attack (3d6, 6d6, and 9d6, perhaps) put it on par with the others?
Edit edit: I also remembered that the Guardian Angel originally had all bad saves. Changed it so she has all good saves when adjacent to a bonded ally, and all bad saves if not. Also added to the skill list.Last edited by sengmeng; 2012-10-12 at 02:41 PM.
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2012-10-12, 02:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Changes look good to me. I wouldn't increase the Sneak Attack, because at that point you're doing more sneak attack than an equal-level rogue for most levels of play.
I also noticed that Vengeance doesn't mention a duration. That might be worth adding.A role playing game is three things. It is an interactive story, a game of chance, and a process in critical thinking.
If brevity is the soul of wit, I'm witty like a vampire!
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
My Homebrew (Free to use, don't even bother asking. PM me if you do, though; I'd love to hear stories).
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2012-10-19, 11:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Posting a Peach on the Guardian Angel any ability I didn't comment on is fine IMO.
Guardian Angel notes:
Melee Path:
Second ability: Does this count as power attack? As in do feats like leap attack stack with it? The wording is somewhat unclear.
Ranged Path:
1st Ability: Wouldn't the first ability be clearer if it just gave all bonded creatures within 100ft precise shot?
2nd Ability: You might want to introduce a scaling cap instead of just a flat cap of 8 creatures. Not too crucial but I feel the ability to get +16 to damage and to hit at level 7 is a bit too strong.
3rd Abiltiy: What is the limit for things that help ranged combat? Does weapon focus (Longbow) count? Would two weapon fighting feats be granted if the Guardian Angel is dual wielding crossbows?
Defense Path:
2nd Ability: If the guardian angel pins the weapon does he still take half of the damage? Also as a side note this ability can't be used on ranged attacks or spells as they don't threaten any squares.
3rd Ability: Nothing wrong with this I actually find it a very interesting and well thought out ability
Stealth Path:
General: What was your reasoning for including this path? It seems somewhat out of place. Also it might need a different name. It really isn't about stealth its more about coordinating with allies to deal sneak attack damage. Thats just IMO though.
Magic Path:
2nd Ability: For when an ally casts a beneficial spell that affects multiple opponents part, does the Guardian Angel and the bonded allies need to be within range of the spell? Or are they just automatically affected.
3rd Ability: The extra damage can make low level fodder mages incredibly lethal. Assuming the Guardian Angel takes leadership by level 20 and either has an ally that can cast 9th level spells or a cohort he can inflict an insane amount of damage with this ability. Might want to make it deal 1d6 divine damage for the individual spell level not the highest spell channeled in a round.
Vengeance: Incredibly broken and exploitable for this reason, you can bond it to animals. Keep a 1 hd rat or something you are bonded to near you. If you ever get hit with an AOE you get a permeant auto crit effect on them. Or you could bond with a spider and control have it walk on the enemy who will crush it and gives you a permanent auto crit effect. Not sure how to balance it but it is easily exploitable in this form.
Vengeance II & III: Same as above.Awesome Avatar by Derjuin
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Hm, the class seems a bit bland. Its essentially a bard like spell caster with marshal auras and a summonable minion.
For the bonded creature can the Legion Magus ever switch what creature it is? At level 8 it can only select a cr 6 creature and it seems like it only advances by racial HD or class levels. At say level 16 could the Legion Magus preform some ritual to bind a new summon with CR 16? Say a Planetar?Awesome Avatar by Derjuin
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2012-10-20, 07:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Yes, at level 16, a Bonded Summoner may bind a CR 16 creature. The Legion Magus may change what type of creature is bonded to it any time it gains a level in the class. I'll add the to the description. And it should be noted that it can use Draconic Auras with their Major Aura bonus, should they learn them. Perhaps I'll give them a Draconic aura every few bonus levels for free.
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2012-10-20, 07:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Well, the 'Paths' that I had a really clear idea for were Magic and Melee, and the rest were made for more options, so they didn't have quite the same germ of creativity behind them. I personally thought Defense was the least formidable, but it hasn't seen a lot of criticism. Stealth isn't exactly about making the Guadian Angel stealthy, it's about making her a better supporter of a stealthy ally. I kind of wanted her to gain the ability to be summoned at a distance to provide flanking bonuses (or appear on the other side of a pit, or outside of a jail cell) and then I couldn't find much flavor-wise besides more sneak attack and the Sacred Strike feat.
The Ranged path obviously suffered from a lack of inspiration as well. The first ability is essentially Precise Shot, BUT it's meant to only work when bonded allies shoot into each others' melee or the Guardian Angel's, so by the time you've spent text explaining that, you don't save any wordage by mentioning Precise Shot (also, Precise Shot has no bearing on shooting into a grapple, but I couldn't find the rules for that). The second ability comes at level 11, not level 7, and the third ability, well, I just didn't want to list every possible feat that could be on that list and I hope that people don't need rules lawyering and could just use common sense.
As for the magic path's third ability, I don't know what you mean by "individual spell level" vs "highest spell level channeled." But, it comes at level 19, so the wizard in the party is doing insanely scary things, and the stuff that a 9th level spell does makes the Guardian Angel gaining +9d6 damage in the process almost irrelevant.
Vengeance is less exploitable than you think. You specifically cannot do what you described, as spiders and rats are not animals. I may change it in the following ways, though. 1: The Guardian Angel has an alignment restriction of good, but I haven't yet made rules for what happens if they break it, so intentionally sacrificing your pets or allies could result in a loss of class abilities. 2: Make it take a week to bond with an animal (the normal time to teach an animal a trick). 3: Significantly reduce the number of bonded allies so that forming a frivolous bond like this is less attractive. 4: Give the Guardian Angel morale penalties from grieving afterwards (once the initial fit of vengeance is over).
I will consider where clarification is needed on your other points. Thank you for your PEACH.My Homebrew (Free to use, don't even bother asking. PM me if you do, though; I'd love to hear stories).
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Alright, did some editing, and now the Bonded Creature is a bit clearer. Bonded creatures advance with their owner's Legion Magus level by Racial HD or by Class Level (Including, possibly, PrCs), and when their CR relative to their owner increases, it can be by the normal HD/Class Level method, or by means of adding a template. At each level, the Legion Magus can replace his BC with a new one by a ritual of negligible cost. It keeps any templates applied to the former, provided they make sense (no Demonic Planetars unless your DM's cool with it), and the relative CR remains the correct number.
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2012-10-23, 02:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Hey just edited the Shade Channeler a bit. Reworked what Spirit Boons cost (Instead of Spirit Points it's rebuke undead) and also redid Soul Harvest a bit so it's easier to calculate how many Spirit Points a Shade Channeler has at each given level.
So right now I am assuming at level 1,5,10,15,20 a Shade Channeler to have about.
1st: 6 Spirit Points. Enough for
Spell Level: Spells Called/Spells Cast
1: 1/2
Max Spirit Point Recovery from Soul Harvest: 1 Spirit Point (Requires 1 kill)
5th: 45 Spirit Pints Enough for
Spell Level: Spells Called/Spells Cast
1: 0/0
2: 1/1
3: 3/3
Max Spirit Point Recovery from Soul Harvest: 10 Spirit Points (Requires 4 kills 2/round)
10th: 135 Spirit Points. Enough for
Spell Level: Spells Called/Spells Cast
1: 0/0
2: 1/1
3: 2/3
4: 2/2
5: 3/3
Max Spirit Point Recovery from Soul Harvest: 50 Spirit Points (Requires 10 kills 2/round)
15th: 255 Spirit Points Enough for
Spell Level: Spells Called/Spells Cast
1: 0/0
2: 0/0
3: 0/0
4: 2/2
5: 3/3
6: 3/3
7: 3/3
Max Spirit Point Recovery from Soul Harvest: 105 Spirit Points (Requires 14 kills 2/round)
20th: 430 Spirit Points Enough for
Spell Level: Spells Called/Spells Cast
1: 1/1
2: 0/0
3: 3/2
4: 3/3
5: 3/3
6: 3/3
7: 3/3
8: 3/3
9: 3/3
Max Spirit Point Recovery from Soul Harvest: 200 Spirit Points (Requires 20 kills 2/round)
I think it's a bit low on Spirit Points right now. The Shade Channeler does have other class features such as Tactics and Spirit Boons to make up for it but right now, especially at low levels where he isn't likely to have many undead, he will spend much of combat simply not doing anything. Does anyone have any good ideas? Maybe a flat increase of Spirit Points such that the base Spirit Points increase from like 6,10,15,21,27...Awesome Avatar by Derjuin
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2012-10-23, 10:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Minor fixes made to Guardian Angel. Vengeance is still exploitable, but WILL cause alignment problems if abused, and only one animal can be a bonded ally at a time, and bonding with an animal takes a week. Clarification made where necessary (although I'm still not sure what Silva meant by "might want to make it deal 1d6 divine damage for the individual spell level not the highest spell channeled in a round" in reference to the 3rd magic path ability.) Unless I get more feedback to the contrary, this should be the final form of the Guardian Angel, and I'm almost done on ACF's and feats.
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2012-10-23, 10:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Trying to fit finishing the Ley Engineer in between a massive work schedule... but I haven't given up!
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2012-10-23, 10:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Ah sorry I missed that you were confused. This is what I mean, correct me if I am wrong in my logic.
If a 17th level character channels say meteor swarm through the Guardian angel it will gain 9d6 damage correct? That is fine, +9d6 to a meteor swarm isn't overpowered at all.
However, in the same round 150 level 1 wizards (Gained from leadership or whatever) can cast magic missile and ALSO gain +9d6 damage. I feel that in this case the wizards casting magic missile should get an additional +1d6 damage.
Does that make sense? Or am I misinterpreting something?Awesome Avatar by Derjuin
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2012-10-24, 03:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
My Homebrew (Free to use, don't even bother asking. PM me if you do, though; I'd love to hear stories).
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2012-10-31, 09:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Awesome Avatar by Derjuin
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2012-11-01, 10:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Base Class Challenge Chat Thread III: Gotta 'Brew 'Em All!
Hi folks, I know I'm not done with the Plans yet (but I'm working on them as fast as I can!), but I'd really appreciate if someone could take a look at what I've done with the Ley Engineer already and give some feedback.
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