Justice League film

[Lord Joeltion]

As for the stuff about the composer or producers or anything else behind the screen, don't care. Never will. I go to see a movie, and really have zero interest in the politics and business decisions that are made to create it.

I agree with you. It seems to me that nowadays more and more people tend to defend their opinions with "objective truths" that have little to do with the actual quality of the product and more with a poor justification for their bias. Like, who cares whatever Snyder (or anyone, really) did on different movies? Most directors suffer from Shamalayanism anyway: they either produce masterpieces or giant piles of doodoo.

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Superman was given too much power. In effect their is no need for any other characters once he shows up.

That's a problem of the industry, really. After all, he is the epitome of Mary-Suism for some writters.

My first shock is...did no one notice the plot was the plot from the Avengers? Sure the movie is DC's answer to Marvel's Avengers.....but did they need to use the same plot? A bad guy uses a magic cube and has a evil army invade Earth...and a bunch of heroes have to get together to stop all this.

But it's completely different! This time ain't a Portal in The Sky, it's a giant Dome-Cage of Doom! To be fair, nowadays most team-up films are Avengers 1. Like, whenever will be watch an ACTUAL villain face up to them?

And if they were doing that, why not give each hero their own movie first?

I've heard this complaint enough, so let me play devil's advocate and ask you: Wouldn't DC fans be even more angry at Warner taking yet another 10 years to produce a Marvel-like universe? I don't know, but executive meddling is a stamp of franchises, so I think, whatever plans WB have, a great portion of the fans will react angrily. I mean, it still happens within Marvel, it's just that they had 10 friggin years to placate the strongest of the opposition within the fandom. They had time to prove themselves. WB still has a ton to make up for.

Most of the humor was a bit off...with flash being young...and everyone else being old.

I don't think everyone else qualifies as "old"... except for Batman* and WW, of course. Cyborg is about his age, and Aquaman can't be that old. Granted, we didn't get any backstory, but he didn't strike me being older than 35. That would put him about the age of Clark, I think (?).

*Batman is what? 40+? 50+?

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Things that don't make Sense
*Wonder Woman deflects like 100 bullets with just her two Bracers of Bullet Deflection? Seems like a bit of a stretch....

That's what she does on comics, so I don't see the issue. I get it wasn't hinted in her movie that much, but I think if she was able to withstand a gatling gun to the face, she had 100 years to become better at it.

*The Amazons are just Red shirts sure...but they do seem very weak.

In the comics they are slightly above the peak human (that would make them just a lil stronger/agile than Batman), and really, without WW they tend to suck. The movie also never hinted they were anything like Asgardians.

*And why don't the Amazon's have any magic? They just have like 10th century weapons?

*Where is Paradise Island anyway? How do the Amazon's shoot a flaming arrow to a temple in Greece? Was this a magic arrow?

They clearly posses some magical arctifacts (the arrow is obviously magical) but, yeah, they are pretty much stuck with iron age tech, except when the writters suddenly need them high-tech. Like, in one version, the "healing pond" was a purple ray that came out of a very advanced machine. They still used arrows and swords in that setting. Weird, I know

*And why don't the Amazons have some way...any way to contact Diana?

They have bad reception on the island

*Sure is amazing Bruce goes looking for the others right at the moment before the invasion starts...

It's no coincidence. Luthor broadcasted to Steppenwolf to make him come. Bruce and Diana knew that and had at most a few months till the movie started.

*So Barry catches a Bat-er-rang and is like ''oh your Batman''?

Who else throws Batarangs? The Penguin?

*So Wonder Woman sneaks into the Batcave...somehow? Does she even have sneaky powers?

She is a godess-like entity, with similar stats than Superman, so... why not? She's fast enough to deflect friggin bullets, I don't see why she would have problems disabling the systems before they kick in (and based on her comment, she broke most of them)

*Wonder why the humans have no stories about the Boxes of Mom Doom?

They were hidden and kept secret, that much they told in the movie. The war was obviously on prehistoric times, where Atlantis was still above the surface.

*Why do he humans bury their box? But the others guard them?

That one is easy: Atlanteans and Amazons are a unified people. The "tribes of men" were never unified, so letting them guard the box would only spur more division and war (or worse: an oppresive almighty empire)

*Diana is all like ''the Amazon's can't leave Paradise Island''...but, um, why?

Tradition? That's actually a good question, given that the gods are all dead. In the comics, the gods banished all Amazons to the island for their good sake, and only WW is allowed to come out. I think WB didn't think this through all too well

*Do the Amazon's even bother to alert the Atlantens? Why not? Sure they had a war or something...but still ''End of the World'' is one of those exceptions where you forget about the past...

They can't come out of Paradise Island you silly! Also, reception must be even worse underwater, AFIK.

*So the Alanteins can only talk in air bubbles? So, how do they even have a society where they can't talk to each other?

They breath water, so they shouldn't have problems to speak. I think the issue here was: a)The director never resolved how "talking underwater" would actually sound; or b) Mera isn't Atlantean so... shenanigans

*And..well...are the Alanteins also trapped in Atlantis somehow?

They need water to survive AFIK. Like frogs. Don't ask why

*A lot of the Alanteins, like Mera, have on heavy armor...and well, how do they swim in armor?

IIRC, Atlanteans are metahumans, like Asgardians, so they shouldn't have problem with that.

*So Barry Allen is a young Kid Flash that just got his powers and lives in a warehouse?

It never striken to me that he was THAT young He probably is in his early twenties, and he has already some scientific knowledge so... "young Kid Flash" doesn't apply here. He is just new to the super hero thing.

*And, um, so, where did Barry Allen get his Super Space Shuttle Suit?

A scientist did it. Probaly himself.

*So Cyborg is a bit more 95% robot, with a 5% human face?

No. Why? The cybernetics he has are able to create an exo-skeleton, that's why Steppenwolf ripped the arm that isn't made of flesh (his left arm, I think) and the leg. He is only missing both legs and a arm, all other apendages of him appear to be ok. He may even still have a weewee!

*And how did the Ancient Mom Cube of Doom make a Cyborg again? Would the magic cude not make something more like a Golem?

How does Tony Stark violate every single law of Thermodynamics with a single suit? If he can, why not Cyborg

*Cyborg's floating hand displays are nice....but, can't he 'see' all that data inside his head?

Yes. And Tony stark probably can use a better interface on a 2d screen, but I don't think that would be exciting to watch for more than two frames.

*All the Heroes just tell each other their secret identities, but then guess they are all Super Friends, right?

They don't have "secret identities" except for Batman and Diana. The others aren't even heroes yet. Unless you count "pushing people" as heroic, that is. Anyway, 40% of the league already knows the others, so I think it's only fair. Founders always knew who Batman was.

*So Batman has a cool..um..''Night Crawler'' Tank/Zoid/Transformer? And Night-crawler does not seem to fit what it looks like...

You are questioning the stylistic decisions of a man who drives a power-tank and calls it the "bat-mobile"

*So when Gotham Harbor floods in....how does Aquaman show up right at that second?

A fish told him.

*And does Aquaman have Aqua-kenisis?

Nope. If he does, he sucks. Mera was so much better, lol. I think the "fork" just creates powerful barriers. Otherwise I don't know why he bothered asking Mera for it.

*So Aquaman sits on the artifact Lasso of Truth? Er, first does Diana just toss this sacred divine artifact around and leave it? And does ''sitting on the rope'' trigger the truth magic? I though you had to be tied up with it?

Don't you dare question the best joke in the whole movie! Also, no, I don't think there are much requirements for the lasso. It's a mcguffin.

*How does the Ancient Mom Cube of Doom bring Superman back to life?

It powered the chamber that created Doomsday (?). Why are you questioning the methods of the mcguffin anyway?

*And why does Batman keep Lois in hiding? Maybe it would have been a good idea for her to run right over and be all like ''Clark!".....

Yeah... let's put the human inside that car with the policeman... Oh, wait, Clark just blew it up on the middle of his rampage...

*And..really...yes...we know Superman is so powerful he can obliterate the universe with his pinky toe...so why have the silly hero fight?

BECAUSE HE IS BA--- I don't know. Fan service? They still keep doing it in the comics, so I don't think they learned better yet.

*And do they really just leave the Ancient Mom Cube of Doom unguarded?

Well, there was this urgent issue about stopping the kryptonian. Yeah, that was silly, but really, these are the kind of silliness every superhero movie always has. We should be used to it by now.

*It sure takes a long time for the Triple Mom Cubes of Doom to...um, not destroy the world........It sure would have been nice to hear say...Magic Carpet Ride...as Steppenwolf turned on the cubes (or born to be wild when he killed the amazons...or hippo stomp when he killed the alanteins).

It was consistent to the flashback. That doesn't make Steppenwolf any less stupid but hey, Loki commited the same mistake over and over...

*Guess it was a good thing Batman made a Bat Troop Transport Quinjet?

The only thing that didn't make sense is why they didn't show it up earlier and did more things with it.

*And Cyborg reprograms the Bat Quinjet to fly faster?

It's a thing Cyborg does after taking his coffe. Don't ask. It's DC. It just works like that.

*Good thing Superman shows up at the end...as he saves the day..sigh.

Don't ask. It's DC. It just works like that.

*And, as the Modern Superman is on the Other Side, he only stands for Truth and Justice...but not the American Way

He already stopped being American once because of luthor, so, duh. He is as much "American" as Goku is "Japanese" by now.

*And yet again..in yet another movie...the evil bad guy army just goes 'poof'' at the end.....why?

Don't ask. It's DC. It just works like that. Don't ask. It's a super hero story. It just works like that.

*So the Justice League will be headquartered in Wayne Manor? So no Space Station?

It's the Hall of Justice. I don't know where it's located, maybe it IS the Manor, maybe it's just some abandoned palace on Manhattan Central-Metro-Gotha-Ville City

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Deleted scene in BvS reveals Lex Luthor using the scoutship to talk to someone resembling Stepenwolf.
I assume that's how he found out Earth was unprotected

Man, the worst thing about DC movies is that, even when they are decent*, cutscenes and edition almost ruin the whole movie. I don't claim the cutscenes in BvS fixed the movie or anything, but watching the Blu-ray was a better experience on the average, given that it gives more sense of "having watched an actual story" (even if it's mediocre) instead of the mess the movie on cinema was. The same thing happens with Justice League: I am dead sure I will actually think the movie is better on Blu-Ray, because the worst thing this movie had on the big screen was the questionable edition to make it fit the 2hr constraint.

*whatever your tastes are, most people find one of them at least "decent"

Loved it. Had a blast watching it. The only real problems I had with it were Cavill's lip, Amy Adams, and Diane Lane. (And I love Amy Adams in pretty much everything else.)
Flash was outstanding, Aquaman was great, WW was as great as in her solo film. Cyborg was good. Batman was good. I will watch this again, several more times.

Cavil's unmoustache is easily the worst in the whole movie, and one of the most jarring CGI effects in history. I hope the blu-ray manages to fix it.

[Clertar]

^ It didn't need to take "another 10 years" to introduce characters. Going with the timing of Marvel films, after Iron Man (2008) The Avengers (2012) took place 4 years later. In between, there was one film about the Hulk, one about Captain America, one about Thor, and a second one about Iron Man.

That's 5 films in the 4 years before the team-up film.

And DC will spend that time if you count the solo movies that come after JL, they could just have put them before the team-up film. In Spanish they call that "making a house by building the roof first."

[Dr.Samurai]

^ It didn't need to take "another 10 years" to introduce characters. Going with the timing of Marvel films, after Iron Man (2008) The Avengers (2012) took place 4 years later. In between, there was one film about the Hulk, one about Captain America, one about Thor, and a second one about Iron Man.

That's 5 films in the 4 years before the team-up film.

And DC will spend that time if you count the solo movies that come after JL, they could just have put them before the team-up film. In Spanish they call that "making a house by building the roof first."

I agree. There was no need to rush the team-up movie. They don't have to "catch up" to Marvel. They just need to establish a strong cinematic universe. And they have failed to do that. We got a Suicide Squad movie before any of the other League member movies. What in the ****?!?!

[Lord Joeltion]

^ It didn't need to take "another 10 years" to introduce characters. Going with the timing of Marvel films, after Iron Man (2008) The Avengers (2012) took place 4 years later. In between, there was one film about the Hulk, one about Captain America, one about Thor, and a second one about Iron Man.

That's 5 films in the 4 years before the team-up film.

And DC will spend that time if you count the solo movies that come after JL, they could just have put them before the team-up film. In Spanish they call that "making a house by building the roof first."

I was referring to the 10 years since Marvel started "going on", ie: when Phase 1 officially started. WB doesn't just need to catch up with the number (or even the order) of movies; what they need is to show that they have an actual plan for the long term future. Films like Suicide Squad are the proof that, even to this day, they are stumbling in the shadows, and that shows on the questionable executive decisions (just like Marvel was not long before Phase 1).

Forcing the Justice League to fit the 2hs frame for the sole purpose of profit (instead of prioritizing the artistic choices of the creative team); is IMO a clear show that WB is trying to catch up with Marvel "money-wise", instead of prioritizing the quality of product. That much I agree with everyone else, I think

Where I don't agree is that every character needs an introductory film or that the main problem has anything to do with that. "Introductory films" is a luxury Marvel allowed itself bc they needed to test the product first, and there were many trial and error before Phase 1. Nay, WB could tell its metaverse story in whatever order they wish, but they will fail until they show they can plan ahead. I mean, nobody needed (or cared about) a Hulk introduction or a Black Widow or Hawkeye. They already introduced the Trinity, and that's everything you need when it comes to the foundation of the Justice League. Aquaman, Flash, Cyborg, they may come later, I don't think that was a bad decision per se.

But the real problem is still there: They don't seem like having a long-term plan. It's more about world-building than the order in which the story is told. They lack consistency, and I don't mean to blame the writers or directors alone. The whole team, from producers to everyone else below, seem to be in the shadows. And it's a pity, honestly.

[comicshorse]

It wasn't terrible is the best I can say. Lots of the humour felt like it had been hammered in and the villain was utterly uninteresting.
One of the post end scenes is clearly setting up a sequel. Lets hope not

[Tyndmyr]

Saw it last night. First off...I have to admit that it was better than expected. The watch was generally enjoyable, and even if it wasn't on par with the latest Thor, or WW, it was still alright. Better than BvS or Suicide Squad.

Let's drill down into the good, bad and ugly. The villain was a bit lackluster. Steppenwulf is...not a particularly iconic or well developed character in his own right. This is the consequence of using up Luthor, Zod, Doomsday, etc already. All they've really got left in order to amp it up over single hero films is Darkseid, so we're escalating towards that....but it means we need a patsy to defeat now. Also, his world threatening power is a little...odd.

They're definitely sticking with a young Barry, but it mostly works. He was awkward, and occupies a spiderman-like role, but no the sort of awkward where it's endless cringe humor. Overall, quite likeable. Cyborg is pretty much as good of a character arc as you would expect for what's probably the least popular character there. Supes is, sadly, too powerful, and they double down on this. Batman wasn't so distracting, but he still felt like he got too much screen time because he's more popular. This somewhat diminishes the ensemble feel.

Some humor. Thankfully, not all revealed in the trailer. Not constant, but it generally feels reasonable, and helps provide a good contrast to the more serious times. Some really pretty shots. All in all, if grading it, it'd be a solid B. If you see it, you likely won't hate yourself for it, but you probably will not feel inclined to rewatch or buy the DVD. It might have gotten to actually good if they could have stopped salivating over Superman. Seriously, you can't *really* make people feel suspense over his death. We know he's cast. We know you're not *actually* killing superman for good. Literally everyone does. Every bit of angst over this is just tedious for the audience. Diana not being over Trevor is...odd. It's not as focal as the Superman stuff, but there's still too much of it.

No dude, you should watch it. It's not like the comics. Like, I basically disagree with the entire first half of your post, but I don't care when it comes to this. Everyone can/should enjoy Logan. I understand the words "Old Man Logan" make you skeptical and rightly so. Trust me, this has nothing in common with those dumb comics. There's no backstory of all the superheroes getting killed in a highly contrived circumstance. It's in line with the previous X-Men films and follows from those. Everything follows from the previous movies---logically, horribly. It's an enclosed 20th Century Fox Production. If you ever saw an X-Men movie or cared to, this is the one.

Disagree. The entire film feels as if they really, really wanted to make a western, but were required to make an X-man film instead. This they did by including as little superheroism as possible, mostly just "Wolvie slashes with his claws". Yknow, a *lot*. Nobody actually feels like much of a hero. But...this is an aside. Ultimately, it's not very much like either other Marvel films OR DC films.

[Mechalich]

Let's drill down into the good, bad and ugly. The villain was a bit lackluster. Steppenwulf is...not a particularly iconic or well developed character in his own right. This is the consequence of using up Luthor, Zod, Doomsday, etc already. All they've really got left in order to amp it up over single hero films is Darkseid, so we're escalating towards that....but it means we need a patsy to defeat now. Also, his world threatening power is a little...odd.

Honestly, I think JL would have been well served if they had taken three minutes or so to actually tease Darkseid. I mean, I know and most of the audience knows that's what's going on, but they didn't actually put that forward in the film and I think if they had bothered to make it clear that Steppenwulf is just a minion it would have made his inherently underwhelming nature - because he ultimately is a minion - more tolerable.

It might have gotten to actually good if they could have stopped salivating over Superman. Seriously, you can't *really* make people feel suspense over his death. We know he's cast. We know you're not *actually* killing superman for good. Literally everyone does. Every bit of angst over this is just tedious for the audience.

It's also wasted time. Three of the five League members in this are new and they are fighting for time pretty harshly in this. Every moment spent on Superman is a moment you don't get to give Aquaman, the Flash, or Cyborg. BvS forced Justice League to pay a toll in time in order to conduct the Superman plot - which also meant scenes for Ma Kent and Lois Lane - that could have been spent far better elsewhere.

[Tyndmyr]

It's also wasted time. Three of the five League members in this are new and they are fighting for time pretty harshly in this. Every moment spent on Superman is a moment you don't get to give Aquaman, the Flash, or Cyborg. BvS forced Justice League to pay a toll in time in order to conduct the Superman plot - which also meant scenes for Ma Kent and Lois Lane - that could have been spent far better elsewhere.

Yeah, that's ultimately a big problem. Cyborg's arc makes perfect sense given what we see for the time usage, but it isn't a huge arc. All three of those could have used a little more time for fleshing out. Superman gets a number of secondary characters(Lois, Kents) with screen time, while say, Flash, has none. I enjoyed Batman and Flash interacting. It seemed like a good nugget of growth, and perfectly reasonable for both characters, and would definitely enjoyed more.

As an aside, I am generally not a fan of clouds, sky rays or whatever as the alien threat in comic book movies. They feel...bull****ty. Green Lantern, Fantastic 4, Suicide Squad, the last crappy X-men...all have a lot of focus on some special effect that's supposedly impressive, but just comes across as weak/arbitrary. In superhero movies, evil needs a face to punch. Sure, GotG2 has some kinds of amorphous cloud-threat, but it's not at all fighting the heroes. They're fighting an individual. So, I don't think the final fight in this movie was helped by the random space tentacles. They're just an excuse to randomly change the geometry as desired for pretty shots. Steppenwolf is still Steppenwolf, and is...kind of mediocre. The troopers never really feel threatening, given that every superhero murder-montages their way through them.

[GloatingSwine]

In superhero movies, evil needs a face to punch.

Yeah, although it ideally needs a face you really want to see getting punched. Which is where we get the Steppenwolf problem. He's just some nerd, we don't care strongly about the punching of his face.

[Anteros]

I have to say, reading this thread has firmly extinguished the last fleeting trace of interest I might have had in seeing this movie.

The DC-verse hasn’t impressed me thus far, and the trailer for this movie looked clunky and pompous, almost painfully generic with its vast explosions and CGI alien hordes.

I forced myself to watch Wonder Woman because I was in a movie theater; if I’d been watching at home I probably would have quit halfway through. I did quit trying to watch Man of Steel—in fact I tried watching it five different times, and quit out of boredom each time. Didn’t even bother with BvS.

So I’m not a natural fit for the Justice League movie—which is a sad irony, because back in the day JLI was one of my favorite comics, precisely because it was such a snarkfest. But my instinct tells me I shouldn’t even try to sit through this movie, and I’m not seeing anything here to convince me otherwise.

Why? Like 10% of this thread is actually people who have watched the movie and have an opinion on it. The rest is people who actually posted that they didn't like it without seeing it, or people who are intentionally derailing the thread into random stuff.

I mean, I get not having a lot of faith in the DC movies at this point. That's totally fair. I wouldn't be basing my opinion on a bunch of people who decided they hated it before it even came out though.

[Kyberwulf]

Wow. I was expecting this thread to be nothing but a hate train.

I was mostly right.

I see this move and wasn't impressed. It's about on par with the other dc movies, witch I think aren't amazing. I also think they are trash though. I would give them 3 out of 5, cept wonder woman. That got a 4.

I can never really understand all the hate for the Dc movies.. and the over inflation of the marvel movies.

It's like hating on the Dc movies makes you edgy or something.

I also find it funny, that people complain about Movies being predictable and boring, or certain characters being the same. Yet when someone tries to do a little something different. It's notmysuperman!

[Sholos]

I don't understand, Kyberwolf. You say that you think DC movies are trash, yet rate them 3 out of 5. Which normally I'd interpret as average-to-decent. And then you say you don't understand why people hate them. When you think they're trash.

???

[Lord Joeltion]

I can never really understand all the hate for the Dc movies.. and the over inflation of the marvel movies.

It's like hating on the Dc movies makes you edgy or something.

Well, I can only speak for myself, but I think the biggest issue DC/WB have is that... they movies should be MONUMENTAL already. Let's be honest: for a cinematic universe, DC have way better raw material than Marvel will ever have in a million sagas. Not just the biggest heroes ever (and I don't mean just the Trinity), but also some of the best sagas in the whole mainstream comic industry.

They movies should never be less than average, specially those based on the greatest characters. Yet... history proved WB is unreliable as a company at best. Yeah, there are still some spark of genius here and there (WW being the last one). But as a whole, their animated verse still kicks the butt of their whole compendium of live-action movies (from Christopher Reeve's to Batfleck). At least they keep a better average score.

And Marvel... what can I say about Marvel? They sold a movie about a bunch of misfits most of the Marvel fans (myself included) didn't know the names of its members. And they are friggin huge just a movie after. They can make a movie about the Cap eating a burrito and people will go watch it. Because we know it will still be awesome, somehow.

Also, I always thought DC has the biggest hatedom in the universe among his own fans. Bunch of nitpickers

[Dr.Samurai]

Why?

Did you read his post??

Let me highlight the salient points...

...last fleeting trace of interest I might have had in seeing this movie

The DC-verse hasn’t impressed me thus far...

...the trailer for this movie looked clunky and pompous, almost painfully generic...

I forced myself to watch Wonder Woman...

I did quit trying to watch Man of Steel—in fact I tried watching it five different times, and quit out of boredom each time.

Didn’t even bother with BvS.

my instinct tells me I shouldn’t even try to sit through this movie, and I’m not seeing anything here to convince me otherwise.

He is barely interested in watching JL to begin with. He's barely kept up with DC's cinematic universe (having never finished MoS, forced himself to slog through WW, and didn't even begin BvS). The trailer doesn't inspire any hope in him, and he doesn't think he will like it. Nothing stated in this thread so far has convinced him that his predictions on whether or not he'll like the movie are wrong.

Makes perfect sense to me.

I wouldn't be basing my opinion on a bunch of people who decided they hated it before it even came out though.

He's basing his opinion on his own experiences, plus on the experiences of like-minded people. As an example, I don't like MoS, WW, or BvS. I didn't have high hopes for JL and the trailer didn't inspire any confidence in me either. I watched JL and didn't like it. If in my post I had said "I didn't like MoS, WW, or BvS, but JL was a total departure from the **** show that has been the DC cinematic universe so far. I was totally blown away with how awesome it was. This is a major course correction and gives me hope for the future of DC's cinematic universe. Here are some examples of what I really liked..." Well that'd be a different story. But that's not what's happening here.

It's like hating on the Dc movies makes you edgy or something.

Ah, the old "if I don't understand why someone has a different opinion to mine, I'll assume their intentions" canard. Maybe people hate on DC movies because... they think the DC movies suck. They do. Everyone was dying for a good movie and WW gets a pass for that. But even WW is barely okay. MoS is okay, but not great. BvS is awful. JL is bad as well, I almost walked out.

It's not a competition. Aside from demonstrating that these movies can be done well, Marvel movies are unrelated to DC movies. And it's not like all Marvel movies are masterpieces either. Ironman 2 and 3 are bad. Thor 1, 2, and 3 are bad lol. Captain America is bad. I'd say those are at the bottom of the bunch (though I'm probably being harsh on Ragnarok since it was tiring to get through but still entertaining).

The problem with DC is that it hasn't found stability. With the exception of WW (which again, I think is getting a major pass from most people), DC's movies have gotten a negative reception.

Iron Man was a surprise hit, and introduced the concept of a cinematic universe. That allowed Marvel to get away with the Phase One movies, which weren't all that great, because we knew they were setting up the Avengers and this caliber of superhero movies was still fresh. Phase Two has considerably better movies (though not all) and Phase Three I think has been the most consistent so far. So Marvel is okay.

But DC hasn't delivered anything like that. They're coming in late, and they didn't really try to set up the JL. I mean... they tried, but they half-assed it. So now the movies have to be incredible. But they weren't. I'm sorry for that, but it's simply the truth.

No one is trying to be edgy here. Batman is my favorite superhero. I love DC. I don't want them to make bad movies. If I had a Ring of Three Wishes I would wish that I had bad taste like everyone else and I could just enjoy every piece of **** I watched on the big screen. But the sad truth is that I have standards. It's a heavy burden, but one that I must carry...

I don't understand, Kyberwolf. You say that you think DC movies are trash, yet rate them 3 out of 5. Which normally I'd interpret as average-to-decent. And then you say you don't understand why people hate them. When you think they're trash.

???

I believe he meant to say "I also don't think they are trash though."

[Kyberwulf]

Yeah, I meant to say don't. I got big thumbs and the letters on my phone are tiny... auto correct hate me.

The problem is I understand iy. It's the team mentality. The problem isn't they are expressing an opinion.. their following a crowd.

[Cikomyr]

Yeah, I meant to say don't. I got big thumbs and the letters on my phone are tiny... auto correct hate me.

The problem is I understand iy. It's the team mentality. The problem isn't they are expressing an opinion.. their following a crowd.

That's bull****.

Class-A Golden Bull****.

You know who would be thrilled to enjoy and love DC movies? Comic book/sci-fi fans all over the world.

There is nothing more they would be happy to. But they do not. Not because its a herd mentality. Not because its trendy. Not because they feel they would "betray" Marvel.

They do not because the movies are overall bad. Bland. Confusing. Badly executed. Directionless. They often requite pre-knowledge of the character on screen and yet betraying the character's traditional depiction.

Accusing people who dont like DC movies of nothing more than tribalism is insulting. You do not lose anything by loving DC movies. Marvel fans would not lose their beloved franchise if they loved DC movies. Its not a zero-sum game.

Marvel movies are of a genuine quality that makes them generally liked. They are hardly perfect, but they are a fantastic example of both audience goodwill buildup AND studios taking notice of mild audience love to correct course after what could be considered their "greatest failures" (Iron Man 2, Thor 2, Avengers 2, all of those still being better than all DCEU movie, bar maybe Wonderwoman).

I can enjoy both. Damnit, i love DC. But dont feed me bull**** and then claim my disapointment sentiments comes from my sense of tribalism over a freakig comic book company

[Zevox]

You know who would be thrilled to enjoy and love DC movies? Comic book/sci-fi fans all over the world.

This is true - or at least, should be for the vast majority of people, I think. Tribalistic brand loyalty can certainly be a thing (see: the "Console Wars" among video game fans), and a very nonsensical one at that, but at the end of the day it's probably a safe bet that most consumers aren't the extreme sort who pledge loyalty to one side of such a competition and automatically dislike the other. Particularly with something like this - films that are targeted at wide audiences, not just the most hardcore comic fans who are the most likely to fall into such a category.

Speaking for myself, know who my favorite superhero is? Green Lantern. But that didn't change the fact that the Green Lantern movie DC made was uninspired and disappointing - at most, it made me consider it mediocre rather than quite as bad as other people seem to consider it. I'd love to see a good Green Lantern movie, but that one certainly wasn't it.

Growing up I loved the Justice League cartoon show, and I could probably still go turn that on Netflix and enjoy it - but I'm skipping this film, and have skipped every DC film since Green Lantern except for Wonder Woman, due to consistently bad word of mouth from friends and online communities who seem to share my general tastes. I'd love to see an actually good Justice League film, but between DC's track record, the trailers, and the word of mouth about this one, I have no cause to believe this is it.

Marvel's largely been knocking it out of the park as far as I'm concerned - some mediocre outings like Thor: Dark World or Iron Man 2, and there's some I skip just to general disinterest in the main character (like Ant Man or the Hulk), but by and large they've built a track record that predisposes me to give them a chance even with something I don't recognize (like Guardians of the Galaxy, which I loved). I wish DC could do the same, because they certainly have characters and stories I can enjoy, as they've shown elsewhere. They just haven't when it comes to films.

[Aotrs Commander]

You know who would be thrilled to enjoy and love DC movies? Comic book/sci-fi fans all over the world.

Its not a zero-sum game.

I was ruminating the other day. In the infinite expanse of all the omniverses, there must be a universe where there is a paragon, perfect version of stuff, including movies. So somewhere, there should be a universe where Marvel and DC both got it right at the same time, and the audiences got two sets of perfect universes (all linked up in with the TV series for extra awesome; where the casts and crew were enjoying it some much, they didn't mind cameoing between big and little screen), like a live-action DCAU for both sides...

And then, maybe, just maybe, because this is the perfect world (for this, at least) Marvel and DC would finally look at each other and go "y'know what, while we're on a high, let's finish out with something epic and do a big crossover where both universes team-up (and not internet-argument-fight)" and they make, like, a two-three part movie where all the characters from both universes show up in one epic confrontation against some big bads.



I dunno about anyone else, but I'd want to see THAT movie.

Far, far, FAR more than any amount of DC or Marvel scoring points off each other.

[GloatingSwine]

I don't think DC and Marvel are scoring points off each other.

I think there's a small but vocal set of people who identify far far too much with their entertainment choices.

[Anteros]

That's bull****.

Class-A Golden Bull****.

You know who would be thrilled to enjoy and love DC movies? Comic book/sci-fi fans all over the world.

There is nothing more they would be happy to. But they do not. Not because its a herd mentality. Not because its trendy. Not because they feel they would "betray" Marvel.

They do not because the movies are overall bad. Bland. Confusing. Badly executed. Directionless. They often requite pre-knowledge of the character on screen and yet betraying the character's traditional depiction.

Accusing people who dont like DC movies of nothing more than tribalism is insulting. You do not lose anything by loving DC movies. Marvel fans would not lose their beloved franchise if they loved DC movies. Its not a zero-sum game.

Marvel movies are of a genuine quality that makes them generally liked. They are hardly perfect, but they are a fantastic example of both audience goodwill buildup AND studios taking notice of mild audience love to correct course after what could be considered their "greatest failures" (Iron Man 2, Thor 2, Avengers 2, all of those still being better than all DCEU movie, bar maybe Wonderwoman).

I can enjoy both. Damnit, i love DC. But dont feed me bull**** and then claim my disapointment sentiments comes from my sense of tribalism over a freakig comic book company

You might have a point if there weren't people all over the internet (this forum included) literally saying how they hoped the movie sucked, and that they were only going to see it to criticize before it even came out.

Honestly, I don't think these movies are very good, but denying that it has been trendy to hate on them is just being obtuse.

[Manga Shoggoth]

And then, maybe, just maybe, because this is the perfect world (for this, at least) Marvel and DC would finally look at each other and go "y'know what, while we're on a high, let's finish out with something epic and do a big crossover where both universes team-up (and not internet-argument-fight)" and they make, like, a two-three part movie where all the characters from both universes show up in one epic confrontation against some big bads.

My serious comic collecting friend had the hardback publication of Avengers/Justice League of America, and it was a pretty good story. One of the things it emphasised was the difference between the Marvel and DC universes and how that played out - a difference that the DC Movie teams could do with spending a few minutes thinking about.

[keenan]

i love super hero movie

[Grey_Wolf_c]

You might have a point if there weren't people all over the internet (this forum included) literally saying how they hoped the movie sucked, and that they were only going to see it to criticize before it even came out.

Honestly, I don't think these movies are very good, but denying that it has been trendy to hate on them is just being obtuse.

[citation effing needed]

Find me a single person who said "I hope this movie bombs because that way Marvel wins". I have seen people saying they expect it to bomb and some that want it to bomb so that this attempt to create a DCEU is put out of its misery, thus giving it a chance to reboot. But never anyone saying anything remotely close to what you are claiming.

Also, yes, people will watch it so they can complain about it later. You know why? Because fanboys will always come back with "if you didn't watch it, you can't complain about it". So yes, some people will feel the need to actually put themselves through **** movies so they can't be told they aren't allowed an opinion if they have not.

Grey Wolf

[Piedmon_Sama]

i love super hero movie

is movie film for to enjoy, American

[Avilan the Grey]

Yeah, I meant to say don't. I got big thumbs and the letters on my phone are tiny... auto correct hate me.
The problem is I understand iy. It's the team mentality. The problem isn't they are expressing an opinion.. their following a crowd.

No.
That is 100% wrong.

The problem is that the second best DC movie is worse than the worst Marvel movie. Wonder Woman is the best Superhero movie of the last 10 years, but that's becaue they didn't follow the formula of DC Movies. The rest of the movies range from outright awful to bland. It doesn't help that Wonder Woman is the only DC movie of the modern era where the character actually is true to the comic it is based on.

[Dr.Samurai]

The problem is I understand iy. It's the team mentality. The problem isn't they are expressing an opinion.. their following a crowd.

You have such a low regard for people...

You might have a point if there weren't people all over the internet (this forum included) literally saying how they hoped the movie sucked, and that they were only going to see it to criticize before it even came out.

A large part of the reason I watch certain movies is to get in on the conversation. I didn't expect JL to be good, because there was very little reason to have that expectation. But I want to talk about it, so I've got to see it.

And yes, I hope this DCEU fails, because it is absolute horse ****. Just like I want the X-Men cinematic universe to fail, because it too is absolute horse ****.

That doesn't mean that I will automatically hate every X-Men movie they make. First Class was good. But if you have a track record, why should I cover my eyes and plug my ears to pretend otherwise? Why should I not wish for something better to be made in its place?

Honestly, I don't think these movies are very good, but denying that it has been trendy to hate on them is just being obtuse.

Sorry but I see it the other way. Guys like you and Kyberwulf are the ones trying to be counter-culture. You are pretending there is a "trend" and that you're standing against the tide.

The bias is on your end, not ours. You can't see a critique of the movies without assuming ulterior motives. That doesn't sound objective in the least...

[Avilan the Grey]

Indeed. I wish that DC would get their act together, get a CLUE, and reboot. As much as I loathe the almost constant reboots in the DC Comics universe (what is it now? One complete or partial reboot of their universe every 1.5 year or so these days?) they need to just throw everything (I would say except WW but to reboot everything they would have to reboot her to ) away and start completely over.

[Anteros]

You have such a low regard for people...

A large part of the reason I watch certain movies is to get in on the conversation. I didn't expect JL to be good, because there was very little reason to have that expectation. But I want to talk about it, so I've got to see it.

And yes, I hope this DCEU fails, because it is absolute horse ****. Just like I want the X-Men cinematic universe to fail, because it too is absolute horse ****.

That doesn't mean that I will automatically hate every X-Men movie they make. First Class was good. But if you have a track record, why should I cover my eyes and plug my ears to pretend otherwise? Why should I not wish for something better to be made in its place?

Sorry but I see it the other way. Guys like you and Kyberwulf are the ones trying to be counter-culture. You are pretending there is a "trend" and that you're standing against the tide.

The bias is on your end, not ours. You can't see a critique of the movies without assuming ulterior motives. That doesn't sound objective in the least...

Nope, sorry. You don't get to literally say that you hope something is bad and that you only watch it to complain and then say that the bias is on someone else's end in the very same post. That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever read.

I just don't understand you guys. You are actually admitting that you are doing something but then immediately turning around and pretending it doesn't happen.

Indeed. I wish that DC would get their act together, get a CLUE, and reboot. As much as I loathe the almost constant reboots in the DC Comics universe (what is it now? One complete or partial reboot of their universe every 1.5 year or so these days?) they need to just throw everything (I would say except WW but to reboot everything they would have to reboot her to ) away and start completely over.

DC has had one reboot in the last 20+ years, and they are in the process of reverting back to the old status quo because the fans didn't like it.

One.

[Cikomyr]

You might have a point if there weren't people all over the internet (this forum included) literally saying how they hoped the movie sucked, and that they were only going to see it to criticize before it even came out.

Honestly, I don't think these movies are very good, but denying that it has been trendy to hate on them is just being obtuse.

Most people who hope it will suck (but most importantly, hope it bombs) do so because they want the current direction of the DCEU to change. They want good DC movies, but feel the current approach is really, really bad and detrimental to the quality of superhero movies.

Also many people who assumed they will hate Justice League before seeing it do so because of the previously mentioned track record. Why would anyone assume the movie should be any different from their predecessor, especially since the entire narrative of these movies is that they will build on each other.

Building on horrible foundation leads to horrible constructs. Can you really feel people are irrational when they reach that conclusion?

Criticism of DC at this point is not tribalism.

[Anteros]

Most people who hope it will suck (but most importantly, hope it bombs) do so because they want the current direction of the DCEU to change. They want good DC movies, but feel the current approach is really, really bad and detrimental to the quality of superhero movies.

Also many people who assumed they will hate Justice League before seeing it do so because of the previously mentioned track record. Why would anyone assume the movie should be any different from their predecessor, especially since the entire narrative of these movies is that they will build on each other.

Building on horrible foundation leads to horrible constructs. Can you really feel people are irrational when they reach that conclusion?

Criticism of DC at this point is not tribalism.

That's fine. I want the direction of the DCEU to change too. Hoping a movie is bad before you even see it is being biased though. That's not arguable. It's objectively fact.

There's a huge difference between expecting something to be bad based on the track record of the company and hoping it will be bad so it will fail. The first doesn't prevent you from presenting an objective review on the material. The second does.

When you admit that you hope a movie is awful before you even go see it, you can't expect people to take your opinion on the movie itself as unbiased.