Core class battle

[Shisumo]

Also - Leadership - nixed?

Average for d8, d10, and d12 is 4.5, 5.5, 6.5?

Which means you get 9, 11, and 13 hp respectively for every two class levels after first, and 4, 5, and 6 hp for the remaining hit die.

Put another way, total HP for 10th level characters looks like this:

Hit die: total HP
d4: 26 + (10x Con mod)
d6: 37 + (10x Con mod)
d8: 48 + (10x Con mod)
d10: 59 + (10x Con mod)
d12: 70 + (10x Con mod)

[Bobbis]

Abstain + random stuff to fit 10 character minimum.

[StickMan]

Vote 32 point buy. Elite is a flipfloper, and Cheats on his wife.\

CORE CLASS BATTLE 06.

[Falconsflight]

Does that mean we have a winner?

[Jade_Tarem]

I vote 32 point buy or Elite Array.

Assuming that we know the terrain ahead of time, what is it? If we're to be surprised, that's cool too, and may even be better.

Heh, will there be a "cage" type fight at the end with all the classes? That would be fun...

[Jade_Tarem]

Sorry for the Double post, going to test die roller.

[roll0]
[roll1]
[roll2]

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

We just need to hear from Pegasos989 and it will be settled. ( I think Pegasos supports 32-point, but I just want to have it confirmed.)

My craft (map making) skill could be better, so if any non-contestant reading this thread would like to contribute with that it would make my life easier.
Otherwise I will make one (I have a few ideas).

If everyone is still with us when we finish this we could do something like a cage-fight, it will be messy, but could be fun too :-)

[Jade_Tarem]

We have an equal number of 32's and 28's... Pegasos989 really will choose the winner if he picks one of those.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Barbarian:Pegasos989 (32)
Bard:Leush (28 OR 32)
Cleric:Rigeld2 (Indifferent)
Druid:The_Werebear (28)
Fighter: Stickman (32)
Monk:Falconsflight (Elite)
Paladin:The White Knight (28 OR 32)
Ranger:Draz74 (28)
Rogue: Hamster Ninja (Indifferent)
Sorcerer:Bobbis (Indifferent)
Wizard:Jade_Tarem (Elite OR 32)

Stat generation will be
32 point buy

On top of this you get 2 ability increases, one for the 4th and and one for 8th HD.



The Rules so far (still subject to discussion):

- Core material PHB, MM, DMG (excluding Leadership)

- No Psionics

- PHB Races

- PHB Classes (No PrC and no multiclassing)

- Stats 32 point buy (+2 ability increases from HD)

- Avg. HP (Max 1st HD)
d4: 26 + (10x Con mod)
d6: 37 + (10x Con mod)
d8: 48 + (10x Con mod)
d10: 59 + (10x Con mod)
d12: 70 + (10x Con mod)

- Level 10

- Equipment: 49000 worth of starting equipment (max 25 % (12250) spend
on a single item and max CL 10)

- No Custom items

- All builds must be legal (i.e. you must qualify for feats when you
take them)

- Include individual and total prices and weight of equipment.

- Paladin:
Smite Evil changed to Smite opponent.

- Druid/Ranger:
Animal Companion:
As the SRD says "A 1st-level druid’s companion is completely typical for its kind...", but any bonus feats and skill ranks you can freely choose for the animal.

- Each fight will begin with participants fully rested and all items replenished.

- You are allowed to have spells and effects that last at least 1 hour / level active at the start of battle.

- Arena: Map-makers wanted
Know map, but Fog of War

[Draz74]

Yeah, I was going to ask about what effects are allowed to be active when the battle started, but you beat me to that one.

Add to "Rules": No custom items.

2 more questions: I assume one-use items, like scrolls, are also replenished between battles?

Are Psionic items and feats from the SRD allowed? (Yes, it is important. I will use a Psionic item if I can.)

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Updated.

All used items are replenished.

No Psionics (Only PHB, MM and DMG)

[PinkysBrain]

For the love of god, put a caster level limit on single use items ... or this will turn into a useless exercise of fights by proxy (20 HD outsiders battling it out).

[Draz74]

For the love of god, put a caster level limit on single use items ... or this will turn into a useless exercise of fights by proxy (20 HD outsiders battling it out).

Agreed (but then again, I still think Polymorph should be banned).

Hmmm, the 12250 gp-per-item limit is kind of harsh when it comes to magic weapons and the classes that rely on them ... a mere +3-equivalent weapon isn't allowed to any of the melee classes? (A +1 Unholy weapon, or a +1 Flaming Shock weapon doesn't seem too rediculous for 10th-level play.) Could we increase this limit to 19000 gp-per-item?

Edit: One more question: do prepared casters get to re-pick their spells prepared before each duel? (If so, we definitely need to enforce the Wizard's known spells as part of his Wealth total.)

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

For the love of god, put a caster level limit on single use items ... or this will turn into a useless exercise of fights by proxy (20 HD outsiders battling it out).

Updated.

THAT was a very good suggestion, thank you.

Max CL 10

[PinkysBrain]

BTW, I think players should be able to buy spellcasting services ... including during the pre-combat buffing round(s). (Polymorph for everyone.)

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

There will be no pre-combat buffing rounds and since polymorph is a 1 min /level you cannot start out as polymorphed.

Note that polymorph is restricted to MM and any form requires a previous Knowledge check to be known to the caster.

You can memorize new spells for each combat and costs of spells scribed will be deducted.

I do not have a problem with a 50 % of total wealth per item rule, I just took what was already there.
This is certainly up for discussion.

[Falconsflight]

Wait, explain to me again why wizards area allowed to change their spells between fights? does this apply to other spellcasters? (I have never really played a wizard and never really looked up how they work... so enlighten me)

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

We are not talking about switching spells in the spell book, but simply memorizing new ones from the spell book.
All other non-spontaneous casters can of course also memorize new spells.



We should also discuss the application of Item Creation feats.
Available? And if so, how much XP can be spend on that account?

[Falconsflight]

...Umm, If I remember correctly, and correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Item Creation Feats allow you to create items... within game? So... I highly doubt their use, unless someone wants to fashion a potion in the few moments before the other person casts their spells.

Also, are we doing 25% or 50? I mean for hte magic Items.

[PinkysBrain]

As I see it there are a couple of fair'ish ways of squaring people off in the arena ...

1. in melee range, possible even standing next to eachother.

2. so far out of each other's line of effect that even after a single move action no spell (even widened) can affect the other.

3. in semi-random spots on a map out of each other's line of effect without the possibility to survey all the other possible positions with a single move action.

I'd favor #2, and I liked the previous suggestion of having a forest in the middle ... a huge cavern with a big forest of dimly glowing mushrooms (low light conditions in the arena) in the center growing all the way to the roof (so you can't just fly over it using an item and still get a spell off).

[The White Knight]

For the love of god, put a caster level limit on single use items ... or this will turn into a useless exercise of fights by proxy (20 HD outsiders battling it out).

I choose you, Glabrezu! *poke ball noise*

Gla-ba, Gla-ba. Zuuuuuu!

*screams*

...

I... I'm sorry.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

There is no doubt in my mind that they should start out of each others sight (and out of line of effect, assuming starting positions are known.)

I also like the forrest idea.


Updated the rules:
- Druid/Ranger:
Animal Companion:
As the SRD says "A 1st-level druid’s companion is completely typical for its kind...", but any bonus feats and skill ranks you can freely choose for the animal.

[Draz74]

I like the cave idea. The forest-within-cave idea is fine with me too.

Edit: The new rule still leaves the question of whether new animal companions can be found in preparation for each duel.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I like the cave idea. The forest-within-cave idea is fine with me too.

Edit: The new rule still leaves the question of whether new animal companions can be found in preparation for each duel.

I elaborated on this in a PM to you

[StickMan]

I like the idea of small forest and a small cave it will make this a little more fun. Hide and go Kill. And there should be trees or walls scattered outside the forest as well.

I don't think Druid/Ranger Animal companion should change between fight. Druid and Rangers would never change animal copanions like that and I some was to do so it would be only to incress there ability in a fight.

Last think I think we should all send our to Lord_Silvanos but not put them out publicly. There is no reason for evey one to know what feats and such other people have (Well once near the middle of the fights I'm sure it will be clear), I don't know a DM who would show you your opponant stats. I don't think we should. Just wanted to adress it.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Yes, I think we should keep stats and such a secret. That will make it more fun and realistic.

On the Animal Companion thing:
Animals are viewed as "loyal companions", so I think changing them between every fight fits the theme poorly.

It only takes 24 hours to call a new one so if you insist on doing so I think it should be allowed.

However, training an animal takes a week per trick, which there is not time for, so the animal would only know the bonus tricks determined by the Druid level equivalent. (Bonus tricks do not require training)

****************************
Reposting the rules

The Rules so far (still subject to discussion):

- Core material PHB, MM, DMG (excluding Leadership)

- No Psionics

- PHB Races

- PHB Classes (No PrC and no multiclassing)

- Stats 32 point buy (+2 ability increases from HD)

- Avg. HP (Max 1st HD)
d4: 26 + (10x Con mod)
d6: 37 + (10x Con mod)
d8: 48 + (10x Con mod)
d10: 59 + (10x Con mod)
d12: 70 + (10x Con mod)

- Level 10

- Equipment: 49000 worth of starting equipment (max 30 % (14700) spend
on a single item and max CL 10)

- No Custom items (This includes wands and other items that are not fully charged or have less uses/day etc.)

- All builds must be legal (i.e. you must qualify for feats when you
take them)

- Include individual and total prices and weight of equipment.

- Paladin:
Smite Evil:
Changed to Smite opponent.
Mount:
The special mounts listed in the DMG are also available.
Typical for its kind, but any feats and skill ranks gained from bonus HD you can freely choose for the animal.

- Druid/Ranger:
Animal Companion:
As the SRD says "A 1st-level druid’s companion is completely typical for its kind...", but any feats and skill ranks gained from bonus HD you can freely choose for the animal.

- Each fight will begin with participants fully rested and all items replenished.

- You are allowed to have spells and effects that last at least 1 hour / level active at the start of battle.

- Arena: Map-makers wanted
Know map, but Fog of War


***********************




I hope an inspired map maker is reading these posts;-)



EDIT:
- max 30 % (14700)

[Draz74]

Awww, dang. No partially-charged items? (Wands aren't a big deal ... but I was going to use something else partly charged.) Might I inquire why?
EDIT: This was more play-complaining. It's not really a problem, unlike the issue below.

I'm also finding a number of good items that are just above the 12250 limit. I'd really like to adjust this rule. I vote we bump the limit to 50% character wealth. (I don't mind less, even, if people would prefer it.)

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

We are getting into custom territory if we allow it.
If you want few-use items use scrolls.

While resale price (from treasure) is based on number of charges left, such items are not generally available for purchase.

The contestants were not allowed to shop at the second-hand market. :-)



Another subject:
Do we allow special mounts for Paladins (DMG 204-205)?

[Jade_Tarem]

I don't see why we can't allow the Paladin special mount... it's as much of a draw for a paladin as animal companion is for druid, and it's as core as you can get. So long as it's in reason.

*Sigh*... figuring out scribing costs will be a pain in the butt... but I can see that it's a balance thing. I'm going to need multiple spellbooks too...

As for the one who asked... non-spontaneous casters should be able to rememorize spells between rounds because the big draw of a non-spontaneous caster over a spontaneous one is the ability to prepare for a known encounter and have the versatility to handle many different encounters. Leush and Bobbis are going to need to choose their spells known very carefully so that they can handle every situation they may face in the tournament. I have it easier in that sense as I can choose what spells I get to scribe free on level up, and then pick whatever other spells I want out of the PHB and scribe those as well, for a fee, and then change which spells I have prepared between fighting Stickman and, say, Rigeld2. Rigeld2 and The_Werebear have it even easier in that sense as they don't even have to pay for knowing all those divine spells. If the non-spon. casters don't have the opportunity to adjust thier spells memorized between fights then the sorcerer has a hard-edged advantage by virtue of having a spell list the same size and more spells per day.

Hope that helps...

Now for a question of my own... what are we doing about character generation? Are we going to post it under the character builder thread and have a gentleman's agreement not to look at each other's sheets, or is there something we do to submit it to Lord Silvanos only?

[StickMan]

Make are selfs and then submit. If you want to use charter builder thread thats fine I for one will not look.
I'm about 85% done with mine.