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2011-11-30, 11:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
It does not look so massive. Certainly not enough that it should look so big seen from the tower as it does later.
In any case that scene is possibly the very next day from the first look we get when roy scrys, certainly within a week. It had three and a half month of fast growth to reach what we see at first. It should not be much bigger in the O-chul-on-the-roof scene.
There is, however, a lot of time between this and the darth-V arch. If Redcloak was wrong in his projection and it has been growing in a slowed, but steady pace since, then it can make sense.
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2011-11-30, 11:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2009
Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
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2011-11-30, 05:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2003
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- Philadelphia, PA
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Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
Except that I didn't change my mind on any of the things being pointed out here. They exist as I intended them to exist. You're just seeing a contradiction where there is none.
Conversely, you're defending your assertion that they are errors against people providing logical explanations:
Sure, it would have been reasonable to think that, but Haley didn't think that. She thought the opposite, which is also reasonable. A character thinking one reasonable thing instead of another reasonable thing is not a plot hole or a contradiction or a mistake. It just is.
Why argue against plausible explanations, unless your goal is to assert that they really are errors?
The rift he was measuring was the literal hole—the dark-magenta-and-white part—not the lighter "cracks" surrounding it, which have spread out much further. If the hole grew 100 feet in six months, then the cracks grew another few hundred beyond that, putting them close to the tower.Rich Burlew
Now Available: 2023 OOTS Holiday Ornament plus a big pile of new t-shirt designs (that you can also get on mugs and stuff)!
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2011-11-30, 05:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2009
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- Germany
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Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
Roy was dead for nine and a half month?
Haley and Celia needed six months to travel from AC to the oracle and to Greysky?
They stayed at Pete's for a bit more than a week. I reckon they travelled for a week between each of the places, so make this one month, two months top. The timeline guardians in those threads over there will know more.
And "six months" still doesn't explain the extreme growth of the rift between 544 and 658 - only if Redcloaks prediction in 545 was totally inaccurate. Artistic license, the necessity of fitting things into those panels, are things I would believe, and that's not much of a "plothole". However, "several months have passed" is not a valid argument to me.
Edit: Ninja'd by The Giant.
Originally Posted by The GiantLast edited by Onyavar; 2011-11-30 at 05:27 PM.
participate in fan translations of OotS to your native language:
English transcript, Deutsche Übersetzung
(links to dormant projects from others: Traduzione italiano,
Traducción español, Tradução em português, Traductions françaises [- trois fois!], מסדר המקלתרגום עברית )
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2011-11-30, 05:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2010
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2011-11-30, 06:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
Closer to 10 months actually. Redcloak implied that 10 and half months had passed since the Battle of Azure City in #702.
And Haley & co. taking 6ish months to get to Greysky doesn't seem too implausible. The Sunken Valley is a few days away from Azure City, and according to the map at the back of WaXP, Hobgoblin City is around 3 times that distance--and Greysky City is even further up north. So it could be like a 3 month trip to Greysky, but at around 1 month is when Haley turned back to the Oracle (so let's say 2 weeks back). From the Oracle's tower to Greysky should have been something like 2 months and a half, but Belkar's curse severely slowed them down. (These are all just random numbers, but they add up and make sense to me.)
The biggest problem is that apparently Miko went to Dwarven Lands and back in like a week or two. But maybe she found wizards/sorcerers/clerics with the Travel domain willing to help. Maybe Shojo's personal Wizard Guy gave her a one-way teleport there.
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2011-11-30, 07:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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- Valencia, Spain
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Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
That just means that Miron only knew about Haley, not about any other relatives of Ian.
There is no proof that Haley assumed that Nale died in the exploding castle before the Oracle told her that Miko did.
Once she was informed that Miko was imprisoned in the castle, and died when it exploded, it's a safe assumption for her that Nale, who was also imprisoned there, died also.Last edited by The Pilgrim; 2011-11-30 at 07:13 PM.
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2011-11-30, 07:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2008
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Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
Okay, Folks, I thought this would be a fun little thread. Unfortunately, it seems to have upset The Giant.
I think we should stop talking now..
-.____________________
./___________________()-------Ron Miel
|...___________________--------sits down
|..| |_________________()-------and starts
|..|/__________________--------singing
| ___________________()-------about gold
.
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2011-11-30, 08:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
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- Gotham City
Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
He doesn't sound upset to me, he is just disagreeing with you. When you make posts saying "come on Giant just admit they are mistakes" or "oops we seem to have upset the Giant" it kinda sounds patronizing. If you disagree with him respond to his arguments without undercutting them in this fashion.
As an artist and author he is allowed to defend his work.Last edited by ThePhantasm; 2011-11-30 at 08:31 PM.
"And yet, will we ever come to an end of discussion and talk if we think we must always reply to replies? For replies come from those who either cannot understand what is said to them, or are so stubborn and contentious that they refuse to give in even if they do understand." - St. Augustine
The Index of the Giant's Comments | Thanks, Bradakhan, for the avatar!
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2011-11-30, 09:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2008
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Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
I'd debate the point with anyone else, but I'm not going to go against Word Of Creator.
.
-.____________________
./___________________()-------Ron Miel
|...___________________--------sits down
|..| |_________________()-------and starts
|..|/__________________--------singing
| ___________________()-------about gold
.
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2011-11-30, 10:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
There's a third option besides "argue with Rich about whether he's made mistakes" and "stop posting in the thread," y'know.
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2011-12-01, 12:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
Yeah, I think if Rich had intended that no one discuss the possibility of a plot hole anymore, there is something within his power to ensure no one posts to this thread... :P
He left it open, he just disagrees with the specific holes you brought forward and, I'll agree continuing to argue about those does seem a bit odd... other plotholes do and are confirmed to exist, like Durkon's age being wrong in the OOTS cardgame...
So sure, discuss them away :)Official Incense Aroma Specialist for the Vaarsuvius Fan Club!
English isn't my primary language, so please let me know if something I'm saying doesn't make sense!Continuation of ThePhantasm's awesometacular post
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2011-12-01, 07:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2011
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Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
You want a real plot hole. Fyron's son, mentioned by Roy in DCF, not mentioned in SoD (where we actually see Xykon killing Fyron) and then mentioned by Roy again in WaXP's. The Only plot hole in the comic (except for create undead and break enchantment don't work like that). Try answer that Rich!
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2011-12-01, 08:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2006
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- Copenhagen, Denmark
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Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
How do you know it is a plot hole? Maybe the son will play a role later in the story.
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2011-12-01, 08:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2010
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- Central Scotland, UK
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Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
Last edited by LightsOnNo1Home; 2011-12-01 at 08:37 AM.
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2011-12-01, 08:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2011
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- Wisconsin, USA
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Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
Miko seems to have reached the area around the gate Elan blew up quite rapidly. However, since I don't have the book in question, and thus don't have the map, I can't say for certain.
Still, 6 months seems like a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong trip relative to others shown in the comic.Spoiler
So the song runs on, with shift and change,
Through the years that have no name,
And the late notes soar to a higher range,
But the theme is still the same.
Man's battle-cry and the guns' reply
Blend in with the old, old rhyme
That was traced in the score of the strata marks
While millenniums winked like campfire sparks
Down the winds of unguessed time. -- 4th Stanza, The Bad Lands, Badger Clark
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2011-12-01, 09:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
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- Gotham City
Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
I don't believe that is a plot hole. The fact that he is mentioned again after the publication of SoD means Rich hasn't forgotten about the existence of Fyron's son. So it means there is either misinformation in the story Roy received or the son was killed offscreen or something. I suspect we'll learn more as the comic progresses as I suspect Roy's relationship with his father still has some story material left to explore.
"And yet, will we ever come to an end of discussion and talk if we think we must always reply to replies? For replies come from those who either cannot understand what is said to them, or are so stubborn and contentious that they refuse to give in even if they do understand." - St. Augustine
The Index of the Giant's Comments | Thanks, Bradakhan, for the avatar!
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2011-12-01, 09:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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- Dallas, TX
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Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
That comic doesn't show that Haley is his only living relative. It doesn't even show that Miron believes she is. At most, it shows that Miron claims she is his only living relative.
He's not going to give away his double agent, so what would you expect him to write? "... should you, as his only living relative (other than his sister Ivy, who won't pay the ransom, since she is currently betraying him to us by helping us recapture him each time he escapes)..."
Edit:
Or maybe Ian’s not paranoid - he really shouldn’t trust anybody but family, but she’s not really his sister. She could have died and been replaced by a Bone Golem. Maybe she’s a half-Celestial. Or perhaps she drew her last breath shortly after visiting the Oracle. Do we really know if Ivy’s male or female? Is doom coming to Greysky City when she returns? Maybe she’s the daughter of Eugene and Elan’s mother, half-sister to both Roy and Elan, making them step-brothers. Hooray!
Or maybe, just maybe, we should just read the comic to the end before we decide there’s a plothole.Last edited by Jay R; 2011-12-01 at 09:37 AM.
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2011-12-01, 12:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2005
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- By a Park
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Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
The Future just ain’t what it used to be.
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2011-12-01, 02:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2009
Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
How are Create Undead and Break Enchantment working differently from the source material plot holes? They'd only be plot holes if they functioned inconsistently within the strip. For example, Break Enchantment is 1 standard action in one strip but then 1 minute in another strip which ends up dooming someone.
Unless you wanted to watch Tsukiko cast Create Undead for an hour.
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2011-12-01, 03:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2011
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2011-12-01, 03:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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- CT,USA
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Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
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SpoilerEvery few years, the yank moviegoing public is greeted with a movie that instantly earns the desirable tag of "One of the Scariest Movies Ever Made!" This designation accustomed be reserved for less than the foremost special of terror tales — psychotic, The Exorcist, Alien — however currently, it is a catch phrase combat, Saw, The Descent, Paranormal Activity, Insidious, Sinister — the list goes on. (But no Jack and Jill? What the hell?) -A Wise Adbot
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2011-12-01, 03:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
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- Gotham City
Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
Not to mention this.
"And yet, will we ever come to an end of discussion and talk if we think we must always reply to replies? For replies come from those who either cannot understand what is said to them, or are so stubborn and contentious that they refuse to give in even if they do understand." - St. Augustine
The Index of the Giant's Comments | Thanks, Bradakhan, for the avatar!
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2011-12-01, 03:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2010
Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
From SoD (kind of):
SpoilerHow can the MitD talk? It's mentioned in SoD his species isn't know for this. So why can it talk? Is it awakened?
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2011-12-01, 03:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2004
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- Bensalem, PA
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Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
That's not a plot hole either. It's an unresolved plot point. there's a (big) difference.
John Ling
Frog God Games Lead Pathfinder Developer
Note: unless explicitly stated otherwise, opinions in my posts are my own and not those of Frog God Games.
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2011-12-01, 03:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
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- Gotham City
Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
That isn't a plot hole. That's a clue. That should be in this thread. And especially this thread (which it is in already).
"And yet, will we ever come to an end of discussion and talk if we think we must always reply to replies? For replies come from those who either cannot understand what is said to them, or are so stubborn and contentious that they refuse to give in even if they do understand." - St. Augustine
The Index of the Giant's Comments | Thanks, Bradakhan, for the avatar!
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2011-12-01, 03:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2010
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2011-12-01, 04:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
The only nitpick I have ever had with the comic is as follows.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html
66 Years ago Soon encounter the first rift.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html
Years later Shojo was a child at his fathers feet.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0408.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0524.html
Shojo was an octogenarian.
Taking this at face this seems to be somewhat odd, assuming that Shojo was 80 then he would have been 14 when Soon encountered the first rift, assuming one year to find all the gates, research the spells and seal them (which is fine actually as adventurers accomplish all sorts of stuff in a year), and assuming that afterwards the years later refers to two years to establish the Sapphire Guard and appear before Shojo's father, that would put Shojo at 17, which seems to old for the story of a child at his fathers knee.
However I am happy to simply assume that Shojo was younger then he appeared to the order, perhaps in his sixties.
My assumptions have it play out like this.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0406.html
If Shojo was 64 he would have sat on the throne since he was 17, Soon encountered the rift two years before Shojo was born, his adventures including founding the guard and getting old took ten years, making Shojo eight and learning from his father.
Soon aged a lot in those years (per the depiction in the comics) as he was under a lot of stress, and Shojo had similar reasons.
In my opinion everything else in the comic can be taken at face value, and this is to only element that caused me to have to concoct a rational for the timeframe.
As for Fyron's son?
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0110.html
Xykon killed five people named Fyron in cliffport, if is likely safe to assume that one of these was the son in question.
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2011-12-01, 04:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
Shojo's age has already been given in War & XPs as 72.
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2011-12-01, 05:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
So basically Shojo just looks older than he is? I don't think he actually told Belkar or Roy his exact age, so they estimated him to be about 80 something.
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Spoiler: CharactersTarok and Kamo, level 6 half-orc ranger, bunyip-slayer, and all around badass.
I like half-orcs
Retired:
Aldrin Cress, level 10 human sorcerer. Hero of Korvosa.
Tireas Slate, level 4 tiefling ninja. Eternally scheming.
DMing: Dragon's Demand