[Discipline] GITP Makes a Discipline!

[spikeof2010]

We are gathered here today to look back at our past works. With GITP Makes a Base Class and the second one going on here. I love community projects and such.

RULES OF POSTING:

First Poster: Key Skill
Second Poster: What class uses it?
Third Poster: General Description of Discipline
Fourth: Name of disciple
Fifth and So on: A various maneuver to add.

Gods be with you.
Unyielding Mindshaft

Skill: Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering)

Focuses on controlling mechanics of body and weapon (I.E leverage etc.). Also in item creation, on a small level.
The discipline was originally created by the Dwarves thousands of years ago, but has become recently used by all species equally. This discipline is used by initiators who wish to fight with brain and brawn together rather than separately. This discipline focuses on maneuvers (especially sunder), fighting inside artificial structures, defeating constructs and knocking down buildings. The maneuvers and stances of this discipline also tend to be less direct than the others, preferring to rely on cunning, repositioning enemies and a strong environmental awareness.

Note: Dwarves with the Stonecunning racial quality gain a +2 bonus on Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) checks when using a maneuver or stance of this discipline.

First Level
Tunneling Stance
Unyielding Mineshaft/Collapsing Pillar
Level: 1
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Stance
The structural weak points of any object are readily apparent to you.

You are acutely aware of the weakpoints of objects of artifice. You may ignore a certain amount of both hardness of objects and the damage reduction of constructs, based on your ranks in Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering).

Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) Ranks	Hardness & Damage Reduction Bypassed
4-8	3
9-13	5
14-18	7
19+	9

Toppling Stumble
Unyielding Mineshaft/Collapsing Pillar (Strike)
Level: 1
Initiation Action: 1 standard action
Range: Melee
Target: One creature
With one slick step, you bring your weapon low underneath the enemy and use the leverage to topple them over.

As part of initiating this strike, you must make a successful melee strike against an enemy within your reach. If this attack hits, you can attempt to trip the enemy as a free action. You gain a +4 bonus on your trip attempt, and can take a 5 foot step afterwards, regardless of whether the trip attempt succeeded or not. If you possess the improved trip feat, resolve the extra attack before taking the movement. This trip attempt, as well as the free movement, does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

Level 3

Rushed Trapmaking
Unyielding Mineshaft (Boost)
Level 3
Initiation Action: 1 full round action
Target: One square within 50 ft.


Using extensive knowledge of mechanics and engineering, you are able to create a trap in the middle of combat and throw it to it's most useful position

You may make a craft (trapmaking) check with knowledge (architecture and engineering) synergy to create a trap as a full round action. You may place the trap anywhere within 50 ft of you, but take a -2 penalty to the check for every 5 ft away from you it is placed. You take an additional -2 penalty to the check for each square other than the first that the trap takes up. If the trap takes up more than one square, use the square farthest away from you to determine the penalty for distance.

Tunneling Through Earth
Unyielding Mineshaft (Stance)
Level: 3
Initiation Action: Swift Action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Stance
You can move through the earth by digging tunnels with your in-depth understanding of engineering.

Gain a Burrow speed equal to your base land speed minus 15'.
Level 4

Unyielding Mineshaft
Level 4
Prerequisite: Two Unyielding Mineshaft Maneuvers
Initiation Action 1 Standard Action
Range: Melee
Target: One Creature
You focus your attack into a brutal strike that renders you're opponent's arm (or other limb used for attacks) useless

As part of initiating this strike, make a successful melee attack against an enemy in your reach. If it hits, you may make a opposed Sunder check as a free action with a +4 bonus, that does not provoke Attacks of Opportunity. If successful, instead of attacking a worn or equipped item, you instead crush your opponents limb. They may not use that limb for any purposes. That limb may not hold items, manipulate objects (or perform any action requiring precise hand or arm movements), use it for somatic components, or make natural attacks. If the limb was a leg, wing, fin, etc... it may also not make natural attacks with that limb, and halves it's base speed (whatever base speed would be appropiate).

[Kazyan]

Skill: Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering)

[Temotei]

All martial initiators except those limited to class-specific disciplines (which are only found in homebrew) have access.

[Teapot Salty]

Focuses on controlling mechanics of body and weapon (I.E leverage etc.). Also in item creation, on a small level.

[3WhiteFox3]

The discipline was originally created by the Dwarves thousands of years ago, but has become recently used by all species equally. This discipline is used by initiators who wish to fight with brain and brawn together rather than separately. This discipline focuses on maneuvers (especially sunder), fighting inside artificial structures, defeating constructs and knocking down buildings. The maneuvers and stances of this discipline also tend to be less direct than the others, preferring to rely on cunning, repositioning enemies and a strong environmental awareness.

Note: Dwarves with the Stonecunning racial quality gain a +2 bonus on Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) checks when using a maneuver or stance of this discipline.

Edit: Ninja'd (I really should have looked at the thread before posting, oh well). Can we at least keep the Stonecunning bonus and have the Discipline originally come from the Dwarves? I don't have many good name ideas. Collapsing Pillar (referencing this strip)?

[Temotei]

Focuses on controlling mechanics of body and weapon (I.E leverage etc.). Also in item creation, on a small level.

The discipline was originally created by the Dwarves thousands of years ago, but has become recently used by all species equally. This discipline is used by initiators who wish to fight with brain and brawn together rather than separately. This discipline focuses on maneuvers (especially sunder), fighting inside artificial structures, defeating constructs and knocking down buildings. The maneuvers and stances of this discipline also tend to be less direct than the others, preferring to rely on cunning, repositioning enemies and a strong environmental awareness.

Note: Dwarves with the Stonecunning racial quality gain a +2 bonus on Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) checks when using a maneuver or stance of this discipline.

Edit: Ninja'd (I really should have looked at the thread before posting, oh well). Can we at least keep the Stonecunning bonus and have the Discipline originally come from the Dwarves? I don't have many good name ideas. Collapsing Pillar (referencing this strip)?

I don't see these as being mutually exclusive. How about we count both of your posts as comment(s) #3(s)?

[3WhiteFox3]

I don't see these as being mutually exclusive. How about we count both of your posts as comment(s) #3(s)?

I have no problem with that.

[nxwtypx]

If this counts as the fourth post:

The name of the discipline is "Unyielding Mineshaft", referring to the discipline's dwarven roots.

If this counts as the fifth post:

The first level stance for the discipline follows:
Tunneling Stance
Unyielding Mineshaft/Collapsing Pillar
Level: 1
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Stance
The structural weak points of any object are readily apparent to you.

You are acutely aware of the weakpoints of objects of artifice. You may ignore a certain amount of both hardness of objects and the damage reduction of constructs, based on your ranks in Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering).

Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) Ranks	Hardness & Damage Reduction Bypassed
4-8	3
9-13	5
14-18	7
19+	9

The number of hardness/DR bypassed was aribtrarily pulled out of thin air. It might be too low.

[qazzquimby]

Not adding maneuvers, but a few suggestions:

• Wear a large construct as armor.
• Attack that deals damage to surfaces and objects in the form of a perfect incision of any shape, rather than blunt force.
• Reprogramming disabled constructs
• Causing a delay of any length on a maneuver after all its decisions are made. The maneuver cannot be regained until after it is used.
• Better use and creation of siege weapons.
• Disable device like a maniac. Everything must be disabled.
• Small trap making, with a variety of triggers and effects based upon the material on hand.
• Lots of tripping and some knockback. Perhaps knocking things into each other.
• Perhaps blinding.

Also I was thinking of starting a gitp makes a megadungeon before the new surge. Is there any interest in that? Alternatively gitp makes an adventure path?

[Bluydee]

Here's a normal maneuver, based around leverage.

Toppling Stumble
Unyielding Mineshaft/Collapsing Pillar (Strike)
Level: 1
Initiation Action: 1 standard action
Range: Melee
Target: One creature
With one slick step, you bring your weapon low underneath the enemy and use the leverage to topple them over.

As part of initiating this strike, you must make a successful melee strike against an enemy within your reach. If this attack hits, you can attempt to trip the enemy as a free action. You gain +4 on your trip attempt, and can move away 5 feet. If you possess the improved trip feat, resolve the attack before moving.

Also, we never established the discipline's favored weapons.

[DracoDei]

Quick suggestion for weapons: All picks, all warhammers, perhaps including gnomish hooked hammer.

[Teapot Salty]

This one is going to use trapmaking if that's alright. I can easily change it to A&E if you guys want.


Rushed Trapmaking
Unyielding Mineshaft (Boost)
Level 3
Initiation Action: 1 full round action
Target: One square within 50 ft.


Using extensive knowledge of mechanics and engineering, you are able to create a trap in the middle of combat and throw it to it's most useful position

You may make a craft (trapmaking) check with knowledge (architecture and engineering) synergy to create a trap as a full round action. You may place the trap anywhere within 50 ft of you, but take a -2 penalty to the check for every 5 ft away from you it is placed. You take an additional -2 penalty to the check for each square other than the first that the trap takes up. If the trap takes up more than one square, use the square farthest away from you to determine the penalty for distance.




That was presented properly correct?

[3WhiteFox3]

Limb-breaker Strike
Unyielding Mineshaft
Level 4
Prerequisite: Two Unyielding Mineshaft Maneuvers
Initiation Action 1 Standard Action
Range: Melee
Target: One Creature
You focus your attack into a brutal strike that renders you're opponent's arm (or other limb used for attacks) useless

As part of initiating this strike, make a successful melee attack against an enemy in your reach. If it hits, you may make a opposed Sunder check as a free action with a +4 bonus, that does not provoke Attacks of Opportunity. If successful, instead of attacking a worn or equipped item, you instead crush your opponents limb. They may not use that limb for any purposes. That limb may not hold items, manipulate objects (or perform any action requiring precise hand or arm movements), use it for somatic components, or make natural attacks. If the limb was a leg, wing, fin, etc... it may also not make natural attacks with that limb, and halves it's base speed (whatever base speed would be appropiate).

Also, comments...

Tunneling Stance

I'd make the numbers much higher. Ignoring 9 damage reduction or hardness at level 20 is very weak when you realize that Mountain Hammer could do what is basically the same thing at level 3, but ignores all damage reduction and hardness from any source.

Honestly, I'd at least double these numbers, if not more. Especially since this only works against very specific things (I'm honestly not sure if outright ignoring it would be out of line).

Toppling Stumble

You may want to add that the trip doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity. Also, you might want to clean up some of the wording here. It's not clear how the movement is actually supposed to work. If you don't possess Imp. Trip, do you move before making the strike to begin with or just the trip portion? Does the movement provoke attacks of opportunity? What's the point of the movement if you don't have Imp. Trip?

Also, I'd word the bonus as this 'You gain a +4 bonus on your trip attempt'.

Quick suggestion for weapons: All picks, all warhammers, perhaps including gnomish hooked hammer.

Works for me.

Rushed Trapmaking

Honestly, I'm not the biggest fan of it. Traps are already pretty clunky mechanics to begin with and this just adds to the clunky-ness. It's also very vaguely worded. The first issue is that I'm honestly not sure if it really fits as a maneuver. There's nothing like it for any other discipline, it doesn't feel like a boost (it's not actually boosting you, it's adding an obstacle to the battlefield), it's not really a strike (though, that's probably closest to what it is), it's not a counter and not a stance. Also, just make the skill check Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) so that people don't have to invest in a rather terrible skill just to make use of the maneuver.

But my the biggest problem with this is that trap creation as a full-round action is really odd. It's taking something that usually takes days and condenses it into a single round. There's not even really a penalty to it. You don't specify how you actually craft it or what the DC for the skill is, do you just use the DCs given for traps? What about the material cost required to make them, do you have to pay it? Can you choose any trap? What about traps that don't really make any sense being portable like a dart trap or a pit trap? How does it interact with the different types of triggers? Can you make custom traps with it? Etc...

Another big issue is balance. Most traps just aren't designed around being used by PCs. They're for the DM to use in his Dungeon. Throwing a Portcullis Trap down against the rampaging orcs isn't something that really fits with how traps are supposed to work. They're supposed to be stationary, not something that a PC can pull out every fight as a full-round action. Because traps are expensive and designed for use in dungeons, you have inadvertently given 5th level martial adepts the ability to break WBL. How? Use full round actions to make traps, then sell those traps to people. Even assuming that the traps cost 1/3 the cost of the trap in materials and you can only sell them for 50% base value, that's still profit for the adept and they can make the traps quickly and at will. A dedicated trap-making adept with his own shop and everything could sell the traps for full value, raking in the cash.

Honestly, traps probably aren't the way to go. Not without a lot of very specific designing around it to cover all of the required rules.

[Eldan]

Perfect Leverage
Unyielding Mineshaft, Level 77
Initiation Action:1 standard action
Range: melee
Target: one creature
“Give me the place to stand, and I shall move the Earth.”

As part of this maneuver, make a single melee attack against a creature or object. If that attack hits, you may immediately move that creature or object up to 20 feet in any direction. If it is a creature, that creature falls prone.

Note: this requires no strength, trip, bullrush, etc. checks of any kind and works against creatures and objects of any size or weight.


The trap-making maneuver: this really, really needs limits. First: non-magical traps only. Second, probably a CR limit for the trap. Third, something like "the trap is badly improvised and falls apart at the end of the encounter or after five minutes, whichever comes first." Otherwise, yeah. Give me a bag of gold and I'll build a global utopia in a few hours with that maneuver.

[Bluydee]

I fixed the wording, to make it less ambiguous.

Toppling Stumble
Unyielding Mineshaft/Collapsing Pillar (Strike)
Level: 1
Initiation Action: 1 standard action
Range: Melee
Target: One creature
With one slick step, you bring your weapon low underneath the enemy and use the leverage to topple them over.

As part of initiating this strike, you must make a successful melee strike against an enemy within your reach. If this attack hits, you can attempt to trip the enemy as a free action. You gain a +4 bonus on your trip attempt, and can take a 5 foot step afterwards, regardless of whether the trip attempt succeeded or not. If you possess the improved trip feat, resolve the extra attack before taking the movement. This trip attempt, as well as the free movement, does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

[3WhiteFox3]

Tunneling Through Earth
Unyielding Mineshaft (Stance)
Level: 3
Initiation Action: Swift Action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Stance
You can move through the earth by digging tunnels with your in-depth understanding of engineering.

Gain a Burrow speed equal to your base land speed minus 15'.

[nxwtypx]

Honestly, I'd at least double these numbers, if not more. Especially since this only works against very specific things (I'm honestly not sure if outright ignoring it would be out of line).

Perhaps a 10/20/all progression would work better?

[3WhiteFox3]

Perhaps a 10/20/all progression would work better?

Sounds good to me.

[spikeof2010]

Updated. Sorry about the slowness, I've been sick.