League of Legends XXXIII: Game of Mundo

[Eldariel]

Chicken-yell and Redbuff provide a lot of slow...

You know you're tired when you read this as "Redbull" and wonder if Tryndamere actually had an ability by that name or if that's a nickname for Bloodlust.

[Dienekes]

So far thanks, but I have a few more questions, because I don't really jungle anyone but Pantheon, who is more ganker than actual jungler anyway.

What are "standard jungle runes and masteries" (his current runepage is something weird like half of his reds are crit, half are attack speed, and his quints are 1 lifesteel, 1 attack speed, 1 movement speed). What route should he start with? Does rushing Wriggles mean cloth/pots or vamp scepter?

[tyckspoon]

Attack Speed reds, armor yellow, whatever you want for blue, because none of the primary blue effects are terribly relevant for jungling. I usually run MR/level. Some kind of offensive quints; flat AD, ArPen, more attack speed all ok depending on what you currently have. Movespeed is never bad if you feel like you're just too slow.

Masteries for Trynd would probably be 21/9/0; grab the Summoners mastery and Bladed Armor out of defense, standard AD offense stuff.

'Generic' farming jungle path for me is Wolves-Blue (smite)-Wraiths-double back to Wolves-Red (the double back means you get here almost exactly when Smite refreshes, so Smite again). Check for potential ganks while you're doing Red; if you have the XP mastery from Utility, you should be level 4. If not, swing by the small Golem camp or pick up Wraiths/Wolves on your way to your chosen gank lane to make 4. Go kill somebody. Skill Bloodlust-Spinning Slash-Bloodlust for your first 3, add Mocking Shout when you expect to be attacking somebody.

Item-wise, Vamp Scepter is better for sustained farming, Cloth + Pots start is better for not getting killed when you go to gank and you have to trade with the target and/or tank minion aggro or if you expect to encounter the enemy jungler.

Edit: If you get pushed into an early back, Cloth start also lets you build to Madred's Razors and then go back out and jungle-farm much more rapidly. Vamp start you have to buy all of the base Razor; with that start, I usually try to do well enough that I can just buy the whole Lantern outright when I back. Need to get a kill or two to do that in good time.

[Reinboom]

Apparently there's another bug (or hack) that allows you to see buffs, wards, and blue-pilling in fog of war.

That was addressed recently. We know of it.
Sadly, that one existed a little longer than it should of. Tencent doesn't like to ask us for stuff.

[Silverraptor]

That was addressed recently. We know of it.
Sadly, that one existed a little longer than it should of. Tencent doesn't like to ask us for stuff.

What do you mean? They don't like us finding the bugs?

[Neoseanster]

He's not amazing at laning. He has sustain... but that's about it. His jungling is alright, its lackluster, but its good. His ganks are awkward and his CC is limited. His utility is only good if you understand how to use pillar AND your team makes proper use of it.

Basically trundle has no place in Solo queue, but only in organized games as a specific hero for a particular lineup. The only reason I would play him solo top is either in a 2v1 lane or vs. Yorick, since his kit is VERY good for both of those situations.

Trundle's better than people give him credit for. He's one of the strongest low and mid level duelists, has brutal ganks with his pillar if you set 'em up right, retains decent utility throughout the game, etc etc. He was a little hurt by the jungle rework, because he's all single target damage, but he's still a good jungler, just an under appreciated one. There's a reason Stonewall still has him ranked as god tier up there with Lee/Udyr/Skarner/Nocturne/Mundo.

What do you mean? They don't like us finding the bugs?

It looks like that video was from an Asian server; probably more that it was discovered over there, and they spent a while trying to find a fix for it themselves instead of just bringing it to the attention of Rein and her buddies in LA and letting them do it all easy-like.

[Tesla_pasta]

Now that Udyr is free, I can finally try out a new jungler. this is good, because no one I play with ever jungle so it usually falls to me in solo que.

How does one build the manbeartigerpheonixmonkey? I know wits end and randuins are common choices, but i wanna have a more coherent build as I start to near level 30 and start jungling in ranked.

[tyckspoon]

Boots, Wit's End, Phage. Consider a Wriggle's if you're going Tiger, mostly unnecessary with Phoenix. Build against situation from there.

[dgnslyr]

What? Udyr and Nidalee free? Wonderful! Except it's AP week, so ideally, I'll have no time to play at all because I'm studying.

Jungle Udyr has no need for Wriggle's, because he does all his damage with Phoenix Stance. He can actually get away with boots start, just because his clears are so drat obscene. Since he doesn't need Wriggle's and does plenty of good damage on his own, he can jungle with Philos-HoG.

Wit's and Randuins are definitely great on him, and it'd be a shame not to turn that Philostone into a Shurelia's, when he has enough kiting issues as is. Mallet should also help him keep gaps closed, and I want to impulsively say Atma's is a good buy, though I haven't played much at all since the Atma's change, to be honest, so I don't actually know if it's still a good item or not. He can honestly get away with building almost completely tanky and still do plenty of damage.

[Mutant Bunny]

Trundle's better than people give him credit for. He's one of the strongest low and mid level duelists, has brutal ganks with his pillar if you set 'em up right, retains decent utility throughout the game, etc etc. He was a little hurt by the jungle rework, because he's all single target damage, but he's still a good jungler, just an under appreciated one. There's a reason Stonewall still has him ranked as god tier up there with Lee/Udyr/Skarner/Nocturne/Mundo.

Trundle is fun and interesting, and I've been using him for a long time.

That having been said, there's actually a part of his passive I'm curious about: does it proc if enemies die nearby and you're in the process of reviving via Guardian Angel or Zilean's ult? I think it happened for me once, but I'd like to confirm it...

[Tergon]

I played as Trundle recently and was solo top against two opponents. Because farming was tough, and I needed the sustain, I purchased myself a Tiamat. Now, this helped immensely, and once I was fed it allowed me to destroy in teamfights with the splash damage. But I was chastised for buying one because it's apparently some form of faux pas. It may not have been the most 100% optimal selection, but with Trundle's life absorbing ability and the boost to damage and regen, it basically made all the difference to me. Which got me thinking about when others use it.

So what do folks think of Tiamat? When is it an appropriate choice of item purchase, or is there pretty much always a better choice?

[tyckspoon]

So what do folks think of Tiamat? When is it an appropriate choice of item purchase, or is there pretty much always a better choice?

Almost always something better. If you want the damage, you get a BFS. You want passive sustain/you're getting blocked off from proper farming, Philostone and/or Heart of Gold. Survivability+damage? Wit's, Phage, Wriggles. The only thing Tiamat really has going for it is the splash damage, and the tiny range on that makes it impractical to rely on as a source of AoE damage. If you're using it to help you farm, well, pretty much any other offensive investment of ~2000 gold will also help you cut down minions pretty fast.

[Anonomuss]

I used to rush Tiamat on Kayle, when I was starting out. To me, at the time, it seemed like a solid starter item. Health Regen. Check. Mana Regen. Check. Helps clear minion waves super fast when combined with E. Check.

What can I say I was just starting out.

But as Tyckspoon just noted, there are better items that do all the same things, just better.

[Tergon]

Seems to be the consensus, and honestly I'd have to agree. It's not bad for a ranged attacker, but there's better choices... and in that specific situation, it was exactly what I needed, but it was laning top with Trundle needing the farm against ranged... something that specific isn't something you can expect to happen that much.

So with that in mind, the obvious follow-up question: How could Tiamat be made useful without making it overpowered? Extending the range too far would make it OP. Perhaps it hits the nearest three units in a limited range or something? Could increase the range to make it more useful that way, even do slightly more damage, but that way it's not hitting EVERYTHING.

[Kaun]

stuck in elo hell!!!!

[ex cathedra]

stuck in elo hell!!!!

Bummer. I can't throw games hard enough to not hit 1600.

[PersonMan]

Sometimes I wonder why I even bother to play Brand when I can just play Malphite.

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I remember how, when I play Twitch, I always go 'ok, I'm stealthed and in the middle of the enemy team...go in!'

So I just WREQ the enemy team whenever I see him in position. It works...except for the part where I don't get my kills (1 was annoying KS - I ignite and peel off, as the damage will kill him, but he snipes him with a basic attack). I have mercenary, though, so I still had tons of money.

I spent the first few minutes of early laning zoning the enemy Ashe/GP and stealing over half of the farm in our lane. Then I got HoG and stopped stealing CS. Sort of.

[Adumbration]

Bummer. I can't throw games hard enough to not hit 1600.

Clearly you have not played enough solo queue.

[ex cathedra]

Clearly you have not played enough solo queue.

Hey now, you stay off of our 'Murican servers.

Anyways, as far as a retort goes... it depends on how you mean. Have I played enough solo queue to make accurate statements? Nahh. Have I played enough solo queue to desire to play less solo queue?

Definitely.

[Adumbration]

Hey now, you stay off of our 'Murican servers.

Anyways, as far as a retort goes... it depends on how you mean. Have I played enough solo queue to make accurate statements? Nahh. Have I played enough solo queue to desire to play less solo queue?

Definitely.

Naw, I just thought it a bit unkind way of responding to an apparently frustrated fellow player, so I got curious and checked your account on the US server. Hence the slight poke; hope you were not unduly offended.

[ex cathedra]

Naw, I just thought it a bit unkind way of responding to an apparently frustrated fellow player, so I got curious and checked your account on the US server. Hence the slight poke; hope you were not unduly offended.

I was just kidding around. My normal response would be to go into the whole "Elo hell doesn't exist" spiel but I lack the effort and motivation. I've been getting these weird mini disconnects since the most recent patch hit and it's made me more hesitant than normal to solo queue, but I'm more than slightly aware of the fact that ~20 games is quite meaningless.

[fred dref]

PersonMan, the one thing I always see when I you show your screenshots is that everyone's farm is really, really low.

[Silverraptor]

Trundle is fun and interesting, and I've been using him for a long time.

That having been said, there's actually a part of his passive I'm curious about: does it proc if enemies die nearby and you're in the process of reviving via Guardian Angel or Zilean's ult? I think it happened for me once, but I'd like to confirm it...

I'm going to say, yes.

When I played Mundo a couple times, I sometimes popped my ult just before I got bursted to 0, had the GA revive me, and then appear with almost full health thanks to the rapid regen from his ult.

[Reinboom]

Preliminary:
Dada appears to be the winner. Most notably for the Ahri CC bug.

[Math_Mage]

PersonMan, the one thing I always see when I you show your screenshots is that everyone's farm is really, really low.

To be fair, it looks like farming doesn't win in his games--consider that Nidalee has at least respectable CS for a 23-minute game, but Malphite with 3/0/17 ended up with more gold anyway. When kills come in bunches, they can be more valuable than CS.

[PersonMan]

To be fair, it looks like farming doesn't win in his games--consider that Nidalee has at least respectable CS for a 23-minute game, but Malphite with 3/0/17 ended up with more gold anyway. When kills come in bunches, they can be more valuable than CS.

Aye, to an extent this is true. Nidalee basically camped top to farm the entire game, but she just couldn't keep up with my 'get a kill and multiple assists every minute or so' income level. Early she was a threat, as she was winning the lane against Olaf, but later...well, she wouldn't have made a difference even if she had been in the fights.

To be honest, the enemy was pretty dumb. We won every single fight later on by just standing around, waiting for me to have my ult and Twitch to be in position and for them to forget that if they do anything but run and hide we will massacre them and then just going for a bog-standard initiate-and-suddenly-Twitch routine.

Then again, we didn't really take advantage of our wins to push or take dragon/Baron, etc. It was so much fun to just kill them all over and over, though. Highlight of the game was, IMO, Olaf and I towerdiving their full-HP GP and me walking away with almost no damage.

Honestly, I want to say that if they had gotten their act together they could have turned the tables, but we were just way too far ahead. Anyways, quadra-AD and a bad Fizz is a recipe for disaster when the enemy has a Malphite.

In this case, the only people with good farm on their team were the ones who thought 'hey, rather than just sort of sitting around mid and pretending that my poke can actually do anything (guess who they were trying to poke? Me.), I'll go farm another lane/the jungle!'. They were also slightly more effective in teamfights than the others. But they were pretty worthless, too, because we had gotten fed enough that their better farm didn't matter.

PersonMan, the one thing I always see when I you show your screenshots is that everyone's farm is really, really low.

(I'm assuming the random 'I' there is a remnant from an edited out 'when I see your screenshots'.)

This game, in particular, had especially low numbers because I shared the farm in my lane and we spent more time farming kills mid than laning. Olaf was in lane a lot and Twitch ended up grabbing lots of CS by being fed and therefore farming really easily.

In part it's because I don't post, for example, 40-minute games where people had pretty good farm but we just sort of failed teamfights and lost. I normally just say 'Hey, this was a hilariously fun curbstomp. Time to post it on the LoL thread!', which is also the reason why most of my post-game shots are wins.

---

I do, though, sometimes have 'farm to win' games where the enemy pushes through a lane and I spend lategame just farming as much as possible and avoiding fights until I have way more money than they expect me to have. Of course, I also have games where I want to farm but the enemy has pushed enough that doing so is all but impossible without overextending.

[Eldariel]

Then again, we didn't really take advantage of our wins to push or take dragon/Baron, etc. It was so much fun to just kill them all over and over, though. Highlight of the game was, IMO, Olaf and I towerdiving their full-HP GP and me walking away with almost no damage.

I love these kinds of games. I decided to play two Anivia-games for a change today and both were this type; nothing's quite as satisfying as getting 20-stack Mejai and Leviathan alongside full Warmog's (and since it's Anivia, AA Staff) and being an untouchable CC machine of destruction

[toasty]

Legendary as Galio. Feelsgoodman.

I've also realized that you can actually go Abyssal, Frozen Heart on AP middle galio and still do really well. This is especially true if the enemy team has someone like vayne on it. Otherwise I tend to get an Aegis, then build my Deathcap.

Deathcap on galio is so stupid late game. Its very easy to end up with the highest AP in the game. :D

The best part of the game I just played? the part where the enemy sits in a bush and waits for whoever comes by. Its me. I let all their CC run its course and then ult. I live and we ace them.

[Qwertystop]

Well, this makes my 5th win in a row as Heimer:

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[Psyborg]

Firstly, congrats to Dada on all the bugs.

Secondly, I want to comment on this one:

10) Master Yi and Snares interaction:
Master Yi's Alpha Strike (and probably Fioras ult as well) have some weird interactions with snares, as shown in
this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aD6Sr...ature=youtu.be
In the first try, I dodge the snare by alpha striking. This is fine.
In the second try, I get snared and am therefore unable to alpha strike. Fine too.
Third try, I get snared, but the alpha strike still goes off, I end up next to Lux, but am still snared. This
shouldn't happen. If I am snared, the alpha strike shouldn't go off -> Alpha strike going off should mean that
I am not snared. This is a weird in-between scenario.

I'm wondering if this is related to Alpha Strike's treatment of targeted projectile spells (specifically, alpha striking while said spells are in flight pops the projectiles visually, but they "hit" and their effects are applied when the alpha strike ends). If there's any delay at all between "determination of hit" and "application of effects" for skillshot snares (and presumably other skillshots), then it's possible for Alpha Strike to go off in between, and the effects end up being applied after landing, just like a targeted projectile (which is, generally speaking, determined to hit as soon as it's fired).

This could be confirmed by testing with Fiora's ult. Unlike Alpha Strike, Blade Waltz pops projectiles both visually and mechanically, allowing her to, for example, evade Sion and Taric stuns, or any of a laundry list of spells. If the odd interaction proves impossible to replicate with Blade Waltz, then the above hypothesis (delay between determination of hit and application of effects by server, Alpha Strike going off in between) is probably correct.