Dominic Deegan: Oracle for Hire, Mk. XLIV: Stunt Bro and Hella Jayden

[hierophant]

"She's still alive! I can save her!"

Oh Jayden, you kinky Luanian you. Right in front of Milov, too?

[T-O-E]

This is bad and stupid in about a thousand different ways.

[M84]

Props to Mookie for actually leaving Nimmel stuck in limbo. I doubt anyone here really expected him to kill off Katya, but it's nice that a good guy actually had to make a genuine heroic sacrifice that seems to have stuck (unlike Klo Tark who came back from the dead once already). Granted, since he isn't dead, there's a good chance that Dominic/Miranda/anyone might free him.

And hey, something this horrible happening to someone they actually give a damn about might prompt the heroes to finally DO something.

[random11]

From the newspost:

- Keep in mind that Nimmel can't see what's happening to Katya. His scream is fueled by his isolation and not knowing her fate.

Actually it makes more sense if the screams come from knowing she died, but I guess that doesn't really matter

- Would it have been more dramatic if Katya had died? There's no denying it would have been sad, but I think Katya being put in a similar situation to Nimmel... not knowing the fate of her best friend... is equally dramatic and sad. Besides, I think dramatic tension can be built without a body count.

Mookie misses the point again.
Yes, it's true that you don't need an actual body count for tension, but it does require an actual risk, and time to build.
If no character is ever at risk, there is no tension.
If we expect a fake cliffhanger every week, it is no longer surprising.
If the tension buildup time is 3 panels, it's certainly not enough.

- Katya joins the ranks of other characters who have come back from the brink of death. Luna, Szark, and Stunt have all skirted the edge of eternity. They've all returned with a bit of help from their friends.

Which brings me back to the previous point: No character is ever at any risk.

- My wife recently said to me, "Things are moving pretty quickly here." I'm glad she noticed. The speed of Alduraithel's attack and the lack of a full explanation were deliberate choices. We spent the first few months of 2012 watching Stunt and Jayden walk around and talk to one another with many dramatic pauses. Now we're out of the wasteland and things are picking up speed. Two archmagi have made their moves and they're not going to bother explaining themselves too much. Here's hoping our heroes can keep up.

Things to move faster now, which is good in a way.
But this is a STORY. To draw the readers, it must make some sort of sense.
It's fine if some things are left unknown, but not if nothing makes any sense.

[guttering flame]

You seem to have mistaken Mookie's terribly drawn furry arms for random hillocks of dirt and rocks. It's ok, I almost made the same mistake myself.

Waddayaknow!

[Trazoi]

Oh Jayden, you kinky Luanian you. Right in front of Milov, too?

Yeah, I was guily of thinking that too.

(BTW it's weird seeing "Hierophant" here as that's a handle I used on other forums ages ago. It's like I'm conversing with my younger self. )

Besides, I think dramatic tension can be built without a body count.

Mookie misses the point again.
Yes, it's true that you don't need an actual body count for tension, but it does require an actual risk, and time to build.
If no character is ever at risk, there is no tension.
If we expect a fake cliffhanger every week, it is no longer surprising.
If the tension buildup time is 3 panels, it's certainly not enough.

Mookie keeps saying this every time he doesn't kill a main heroic character, and he's never going to get it. If everyone knows you're not going to kill a main character, then you can't use that as a source of tension. It's why we were all concerned about Katya's hand, not herself - because that's something she could conceivably lose. Not her life.

If Mookie owned up to himself that he couldn't kill his characters, then he could start throwing up some proper risks towards them. Make the risk be their reputation, or their relationships with loved ones. Make the risk be that they fail the moral choice and become a villain. There's plenty of powerful challenges that you can throw at a character other than threat of death. But for some reason Mookie keeps using mortal peril as his source of threat even though no-one at all believes he'll go through with it, ever.

Of course even if Mookie started throwing different types of threats in they're still unlikely to work, because the deeper issue is he doesn't like to hit his darling characters where they hurt. Otherwise Dominic's hubris would have caused him to fall years ago.

[Gez]

Did you mean prosthetic? Cause that's some messed up s**t otherwise.

Alterists are creepy, remember? Deal with it.

Also, I must say I wasn't expecting Nimmel to literally scream so hard reality altered itself. That's pretty impressive, when you think about it.

Alterists are creepy, remember? Deal with it.

Mookie misses the point again.
Yes, it's true that you don't need an actual body count for tension, but it does require an actual risk, and time to build.
If no character is ever at risk, there is no tension.It's fine if some things are left unknown, but not if nothing makes any sense.

It also requires that the threat not be one of death. Mookie has the supposedly super-powerful archmages waltz around blasting destructive spells around. It's not really subtle terror he's going for, here, just overwhelming force. If the universe's most powerful magicioners at their most destructive approach are barely able to inconvenience the tertiary protagonists a bit before being defeated, there is no tension.

You want tension without a body count? Then don't make the villains use attacks intended to create a body count. People if you just go "villains want to kill good guys; good guys aren't allowed to die", then you go "villains aren't allowed to be successful" and everybody knows they don't have to care about what happens.

They could do other stuff than go down guns blazing. I mean, what is the opposition here? Five of the most powerful mages in history, four of them being alien weirdoes and the last being also the popular and charismatic king of the most powerful nation in the world, and one cosmic aberration that drains power from all the planes and can possess people apparently (see TIM, Cattlebasters). There's a lot of room for a variety of intrigues here.

But nooo. Mindless beam spam is all they know about.

[elros]

If Mookie owned up to himself that he couldn't kill his characters, then he could start throwing up some proper risks towards them. Make the risk be their reputation, or their relationships with loved ones. Make the risk be that they fail the moral choice and become a villain. There's plenty of powerful challenges that you can throw at a character other than threat of death. But for some reason Mookie keeps using mortal peril as his source of threat even though no-one at all believes he'll go through with it, ever.

You want tension without a body count? Then don't make the villains use attacks intended to create a body count. People if you just go "villains want to kill good guys; good guys aren't allowed to die", then you go "villains aren't allowed to be successful" and everybody knows they don't have to care about what happens.

These comments sum up the problem with DD. Mookie lacks the imagination or the talent to create interesting conflicts. I think this is all the more amazing because Dominic is a seer! He is supposed to the master of subtlety, but instead he is just an all-powerful bully in the psycho-planes. That is why I haven't felt any tension since the first conflict of Jacob vs the Chosen. In that arc, the main characters survived, but were traumatized and had their weaknesses exposed. It's a shame that Mookie has regressed so far.

[Traab]

Jayden has to be the worst cleric ever. "Shes dead jim. Oh wait, no she isnt. I can save her!" Yeah, you can save her, no freaking duh. Unless she suddenly turned into a resistant, your white magic will heal pretty much anything short of obliterated limbs. So you cant tell the difference between dead and mostly dead. Go hire miracle max and get a refresher course.

Also, how the hell did runtette "hear" nimmel? As far as we can tell she aint got no magic, nimmel isnt in the afterlife, so no near death experience, and I swear if mookie pulls a soul bond out of his crap filled cap ill scream loud enough to rewrite reality and bring my dismembered girlfriend back to life. (That should be our new thread title, Dominic Deegan: Oracle for Hire, Mk. XLV: Where Screams Rewrite Reality)

[random11]

Also, how the hell did runtette "hear" nimmel? As far as we can tell she aint got no magic, nimmel isnt in the afterlife, so no near death experience, and I swear if mookie pulls a soul bond out of his crap filled cap ill scream loud enough to rewrite reality and bring my dismembered girlfriend back to life. (That should be our new thread title, Dominic Deegan: Oracle for Hire, Mk. XLV: Where Screams Rewrite Reality)

It's not that I want you to scream, but Mookie actually talked about it in the newspost:
Katya joins the ranks of other characters who have come back from the brink of death. Luna, Szark, and Stunt have all skirted the edge of eternity. They've all returned with a bit of help from their friends.

So whatever just happened, Nimmel saves Katya (no, not this kind of save...) with the power of friendship, love, and an ass-pulled magic.

[hierophant]

(BTW it's weird seeing "Hierophant" here as that's a handle I used on other forums ages ago. It's like I'm conversing with my younger self. )

Well, there's no time travel going on here, no sir...

So, who wants to bet that Milov and Jayden forget entirely what they were going to do before being attacked and go off on another tangent (assuming we don't just skip to another character). Any takers?

[Traab]

Well, there's no time travel going on here, no sir...

So, who wants to bet that Milov and Jayden forget entirely what they were going to do before being attacked and go off on another tangent (assuming we don't just skip to another character). Any takers?

Too be fair, I dont think they have a choice. First of all, I have already forgotten what they were going to do, secondly, nimmel is gone, all three of them are tired and/or badly wounded, so at the very least this will cause a postponement. So they have to heal katya as much as jayden can, her and milov have to rest up, then they have to figure out what the hell happened to nimmel. Especially since, in the hazy past when they had a plan, I think nimmel was supposed to be a part of it somehow.

[M84]

If Nimmel is somehow sav -- rescued by deus ex Miranda I'll be irritated. But I'll probably be even more irritated if this doesn't happen, if only because it would be monstrously out of character for Miranda not to move heaven and earth to help a former student in peril.

[Mr. McGician]

I think Nimmel will be rescued by Rilian, because being a mysterious ancient wizard means he can be used as a plot device without explaining anything. Also, it lets Mookie replace real tension ("Nimmel is trapped in a genericwhitebackgroundplane!") with fake tension ("It's Rilian! He's mysterious!")

[Dandria]

Aaand, this is where I'm drawing the line: I just stopped caring. If you listen carefully enough you should hear the sound of the last **** I gave, disappearing into thin air.

I'm not angry. Really, I knew this would happen, but for a moment there, while Noodle was still alive, I actually enjoyed reading this comic.

So, yeah, that's it. You don't need a body count to build tension? Why, of course! People can come back to life thanks to a screaming big dog? Whatever you say, Mookie! You won. Congratulations!

[Squark]

Ungh. So, how long until this situation is resolved? One week? Two? More?


(If Muci ends the comic with the last panel being Nimmel still in limbo saying something along the lines of, "Bored. Really, really, bored," I might just forgive him a bit)

[random11]

Inspired by DD, I have an idea for a comic.

You know the story of "Lord of the rings"? The one about epic quests, battle of wizards and a huge war? BORING!!!

Instead of the regular view, I'll focus on the tavern owner of the place Frodo visited when he started his quest and used the ring for the first time.

After a short introduction, I'll show the chaotic scene where Frodo uses the ring and turns the place into a battle zone, and finally barely manages to escape with his life.
Of course, the readers will not know what's going on, but that's fine since it's supposed to be mysterious!

Then I'll produce an arc about the tavern owner's relationship with his wife, it will be a touching arc, and also a bit scary when they face the rat in the cellar and the moldy bread.

Finally, I'll end that part of the story with a revelation arc. Frodo will pass through the tavern after the ring is destroyed, and I'll use talking heads to explain the readers what happened in the first fight scene, and how Frodo managed to destroy the ring, all thanks to the beer he got from the tavern owner just before the epic fight.

This is an original idea, I wonder why no one tried it before?

[Mewtarthio]

This is an original idea, I wonder why no one tried it before?

Sounds a bit like Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead, actually.

[Zaq]

Mookie, you can have tension without a body count, but dammit, you cannot have tension without consequences. Meaningful ones. Ones that impose more than a temporary setback. Ones that are shown, not told about. Ones that you remember for more than one strip ("brittle bones," anyone?).

Sigh.

[T-O-E]

I think Nimmel will be rescued by Rilian, because being a mysterious ancient wizard means he can be used as a plot device without explaining anything. Also, it lets Mookie replace real tension ("Nimmel is trapped in a genericwhitebackgroundplane!") with fake tension ("It's Rilian! He's mysterious!")

Guy is going to come back as a pretty boy anime and Nimmel is going to be like "Who are you?!" and Rillian is going to go "I'm Brian, I'm an angel now. Luana says keep doing what you're doing, you're perfect."

[Welf]

I can't add anything somebody hasn't been said before, so I'll keep it short: disappointing.

[Darkmyst]

Sneaky Gate

Future Link

[Myrdhale]

Oh good, Dominic is back. Now he can sue everything better.

So the 4 extra dimensional super beings are just kinda common knowledge now I guess?

You know, I'm starting to side with the Jockwolves, Milov is a terrible Werewolf. Everytime he has a problem the first thing he does is run to a Callanian to get help. No wonder they think he's embarassing.

[Trazoi]

Hands up anyone who predicted that Mookie couldn't even wait one day before deflating the issue over Nimmel's fate in the void. Okay, everyone put your hands down now.

So the 4 extra dimensional super beings are just kinda common knowledge now I guess?

Yeah, this is bugging me too. When the League of Super Mages was introduced we all pointed out that the only way this could tie into the previous canon was if they were secret. I guess Mookie didn't figure that out.

You know, I'm starting to side with the Jockwolves, Milov is a terrible Werewolf. Everytime he has a problem the first thing he does is run to a Callanian to get help. No wonder they think he's embarassing.

Seriously. Outrage Chief he is not.

[T-O-E]

Donovan's (Mookie) father looks like Milov's (Mookie) father, who looks like Mookie. Sues upon sues upon sues.

And I thought Celesto was stuck in magic jail?

[Trazoi]

And I thought Celesto was stuck in magic jail?

Stuck in a magic box stuffed in Miranda's extra planar closet. Deegan vigilantes are judge, jury and jailer.

At the last few conventions I've attended a few people pointed out that it's been months since we've seen Dominic and Luna. About five months now that it's May! I think Stunt, Jayden, Milov, Nimmel and Katya have carried the spotlight well in Dominic and Luna's "absence," and I'm glad many of you didn't seem to mind. It tells me you fine folks are invested not only in the fates of the main characters, but in much of the supporting cast as well, and for that I am very grateful.

*sigh* It's been four months Mookie. And it looks like the Deegans are still doing nothing on their own initative. Some heroes act, some react, yours sit around until the dark anti-hero has to do their job for them and then they clock him over the head and steal the credit.

Mookie, remember the cliffhanger at the end of the last year? How TIM is now the Harbinger or something? It's been several days in comic since then. Why isn't Dominic dead yet?

[Gez]

Okay, Mookie. It's great that you are starting again to give different shapes to faces, but that should be for different characters. Not the same character in two different panels. I mean, seriously, what's wrong with Dominic's face in panel 7? Okay, beyond "it exists" and "everything".

Also, hello Celesto. What are you doing in panels 2, 3 and 4?

[random11]

Summary of the strip:
Seems like Mookie is thinking along the lines of "I'm bored, let's move to the next story".

Summary of the newspost:
When fans see focus on side characters instead of the main character as a good thing, that's not necessarily a good sign...

Also, I don't know what Dominic has been doing for the past days/weeks, but it sure wasn't "hiding", considering how easy it was for Stunt to find him.

[Squark]

Comic is now officially 100% intollerable again.


Congratulations, Mookie. How many other works can say the presence of their protagonist instantly makes the narrative totally unredeamable.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Okay, Mookie. It's great that you are starting again to give different shapes to faces, but that should be for different characters. Not the same character in two different panels. I mean, seriously, what's wrong with Dominic's face in panel 7? Okay, beyond "it exists" and "everything".

He either went Emo or he's getting ready for the Rocky Horror Picture Show screening that evening