Help with ideas for a new class im creating

[Tallytrev813]

Finished the class. All i need to do is complete the spell list:

Blood Mage

Class Features:

As a Blood Mage, you gain the following class features.

Hit Points
Hit Dice: 1d12 per Blood Mage level
Hit points at 1st level: 12 + Your Constitution Modifier
Hit Points at Higher levels: 1d12 (or 5) + your Constitution modifier per Blood Mage level after 1st

Proficiencies
Armor: None
Weapons: Simple Bladed weapons (Dagger, Handaxe, Sickle, Darts, Light Crossbow)
Tools: None
Saving Throws: Constitution, Charisma
Skills: Choose 2 from Arcana, Perception, History, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, Insight, Investigation, Medicine

Equipment
You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background:
• (a) a light crossbow and 20 bolts or (b) any simple weapon
• (a) a scholar’s pack or (b) an explorer’s pack
• a dagger with ceremonial markings related to your background

Bloodcasting:
Your study of arcane magic fueled by the inert power of lifeblood is frowned upon in society by those who are aware of it’s practice. You are able to utilize your blood (or at times the blood of others) to power your spellcasting. You have no spell slots outside of ones gained via Bloodcasting, and any spell slots you currently have are lost. You may not gain spell slots through multiclassing. In order to cast a spell, you must have a bladed weapon in 1 hand, and nothing in the other hand to facilitate an open wound when needed. The cost in blood of a spell is equal to the spell slot level being used to cast it x4. For example, if one wished to cast a spell with a 1st level spell slot, it would cost them 4 Health, a 4th level spell would cost 16 health, and so on. Your spells do not require components beyond your own blood. A Blood Mage may not cast a spell that brings their health below 1. Health may not be spent to cast spells with spell slots of 7th level or higher. You gain ONE level 7 spell slot at level 13, ONE level 8 spell slot at level 15, and ONE level 9 spell slot at level 17. These spell slots are replenished on a long rest.

Cantrips
You know the Leach cantrip plus 2 cantrips of your choice from the Blood Mage spell list. You learn additional Blood Mage cantrips of your choice at higher levels, as shown in the Cantrips Known column of the Blood Mage table.

Spells Known of 1st Level and Higher
At 1st level, you know two 1st-level spells of your choice from the Blood Mage spell list.
The spells known column of the Blood Mage table shows when you learn more Blood Mage spells of your choice of 1st level and higher. A spell you chose must be of a level no higher than what’s shown in the tables Spell Level column for your level. When you reach 6th level, for example, you learn a new Blood Mage spell which can be of the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd level.
Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the Blood Mage spells you know and replace it with another spell from the Blood Mage spell list which also must be of a level lesser than or equal to the Spell Level shown in the Spell Level column for your level on the Blood Mage table.

Spellcasting Ability
Constitution is your spellcasting ability for your Blood Mage spells, so you use your Constitution whenever a spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Constitution modifier when setting the saving throw DC for a Blood Mage spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one.
Spell save DC = 8 + Your Proficiency Bonus + Your Constitution Modifier
Spell Attack Modifier = Your Proficiency Bonus + Your Constitution Modifier

Drain Life:
Level 1
Through practice manipulating the essence contained in blood, you have learned to draw it from others when it’s exposed. During combat, as a bonus action, you may choose a damaged enemy to target with this ability. Roll 1d4, and deal that much necrotic damage to the target. You gain life equal to the damage dealt to the enemy as you funnel their lifeforce to you. You may use this ability a number of times equal to your constitution modifier, and your uses are replenished on a Long Rest. The damage dice increases to 2d4 at level 5, 3d4 at level 11, and 4d4 at level 17.

Corrupted Blood:
Level 1
Due to prolonged arcane practice on/with your blood, and manipulation of your lifeforce, your natural healing has been altered to accelerate at will, but this has come with a price. As a bonus action in combat, you may spend 1 Hit Die (1d12) to regain health equal to the number rolled without the addition of your constitution modifier. Additionally, your lifeforce is not responsive to magical healing from others. Magical healing from other creatures has no effect on you. You may use Health Potions as normal, but otherwise you may not be healed outside of your own hit die and your own spells/abilities. This immunity to magical healing includes other class abilities such as Song of Rest. Being immune to the effects of magical healing from others does not preclude them from casting the spell on you if there were a secondary benefit to the magical healing. The lone exception to this occurs when a Blood Mage drops to 0 hit points, at which point their magic affecting their Blood fades and the Blood Mage becomes eligible for magical healing until stabilized or healed. Being immune to the effects of magical healing from others does not preclude them from casting the spell on you if there were a secondary benefit to the magical healing.

Paths of Manipulation:
When you reach 2nd level, you chose a path of manipulation, utilizing the arcane power of lifeblood through one of 3 different means; Path of Harm, Path of Sacrifice, Path of Enhancement, all detailed at the end of the class description.
Your choice grants you features at 2nd level, and again at 6th, 10th, and 14th level.


Ability Score Improvement
When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you cant increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.

Hematologic Regeneration:
Your bone marrow has magically adjusted to your ever-increasing need for blood. You regain all your Hit Die on a Long rest. In addition, when you use your Corrupted Blood feature to expend Hit Die in combat, you may add your Constitution Modifier to the roll. Finally, if you begin combat without any Hit Die, you regain 1 Hit Die at the start of Combat.

Master Bloodcaster:
You have mastered your blood-driven form of spellcasting such that you may use other’s untapped lifeforce to fuel your spells. You may draw health from a willing creature within 30 ft of you to cast a spell with Bloodcasting during combat. This health cost may not be reduced by any spells or abilities, and is drawn directly from the creatures health (not from any kind of Ward or protective spell/ability, though it may be drawn from Temporary hitpoints). This creature must be willing and not coerced to do so via a magical effect, such as Dominate Person or Geas, and this ability cannot reduce a creatures health below 1. You may choose to draw a ratio of the spell's cost in health from the creature, and pay the difference in your own blood. The Blood Mage decides how much health to draw from the creature, and how much to draw from himself, but may only target 1 other creature at a time (May not Draw from 2 separate targets simultaneously). Any creature whom you draw blood from in this manner is touched by your Blood Magic, and becomes immune to magical healing until the start of it's next turn.

Paths of Manipulation
The study and practice of manipulating the lifeforce in ones blood is an ancient, powerful, and dangerous practice. It remains frowned upon, and often times is hidden by those who wield it’s furious powers for their benefit.
There are 3 typical uses one may direct their Blood’s lifeforce towards, though all 3 are known by the few who are aware of the practice as particularly dangerous.
The Path of Harm focuses the strength drawn from Blood to enhance one’s spellcasting prowess. The Path of Sacrifice is a path some desperate individuals take when seeking to utilize their own lifeforce to empower their allies. Finally, the Path of Enhancement is reserved for individuals who seek to use their Blood Magic to empower their own body and weapons, enhancing their armor or sword with Blood energy.




Path of Harm
The Path of Harm focuses the strength drawn from Blood to enhance one’s spellcasting prowess. Being hit by a fireball, for example, is particularly dangerous from these Blood Mages. Those who continue down this path realize that, often times, ending an enemy quickly is the best way of preserving ones self rather than wasting time mending ones wounds while your foe continues their offensive assault. These Bloodcasters seek to end combat quickly at the expense of their own life force.

Reopening Wound
Beginning when you select this Path at level 2, your ability with your Bloodcasting increases. Choose a spot on your exposed skin (your hand, your neck, your face, your arm, etc.) and describe a type of fresh cut, wound, etc. You have learned to magically maintain this open wound such that it begins to slightly, unnoticeably bleed when you decide to utilize your Bloodcasting feature. You no longer require a bladed weapon, or an open hand, to cast spells, thus freeing your hands to utilize weapons, staffs, wands, etc. You share attunement restrictions with Sorcerers, and may attune to any item that a Sorcerer can with the text of the item simply replacing "Sorcerer" with "Blood Mage".
You additionally gain proficiency in 1 of (Your choice) Arcana, Investigation, Religion or History.

Improved Leaching
Starting at 2nd level, you’ve become more adept with your ability to draw health from enemies, briefly leaching hitpoints. You may add your spellcasting modifier to your Leach Cantrip’s damage.

Bloodcharged
Starting at 6th level, when you cast a spell at a spell slot level of 1st or higher, you have the option to “Bloodcharge” your spell. Before rolling a spell attack, or before your target(s) make saving throws, sacrifice up to 5 health to Bloodcharge your spell. If the spell deals damage, the initial damage dealt is supplemented by Necrotic damage equal to the amount of health you sacrificed. At 11th level, the maximum health available to sacrifice increases to 10 health, and at level 17 it reaches a maximum of 20 health.

Healing Response
Starting at 10th level, your magically charged blood has developed the ability to respond briefly to assault. Whenever an enemy hits you with a melee attack that does damage, you may spend your reaction to gain temporary hitpoints equal to double the damage dealt by this attack. These temporary hitpoints last until the end of your next turn. Once you use this feature, you cannot use it again until you finish a Long rest.

Last Chance
By the 14th level, you have tested the limits of your resiliency in utilizing the power of the magic in your blood. As an action, you may make one last ditch effort at finishing an enemy by placing every available ounce of your bloods energy into a spell. Choose any spell from your spell list. You may cast this spell with no immediate cost in blood. If the spell requires a spell attack, roll it with Advantage. If the spell requires a saving throw from the target, they make that save with Disadvantage. If the spell causes damage, double the damage die as though it were a critical strike. You may not Bloodcharge this spell. After casting this spell your health drops to 1, you gain 1 point of exhaustion, you fall prone, and your turn immediately ends. You may not utilize your Corrupted Blood feature’s ability to Roll a damage die after using this ability for 1 minute.







Path of Sacrifice
The Path of Sacrifice is a path some desperate individuals take when seeking to utilize their own lifeforce to empower their allies. They sacrifice their own blood to heal, or quicken, or strengthen others by great lengths. Those who follow this path typically fell into Blood Magic by necessity, perhaps seeking a way to heal or restore a loved one or aspect of life unsuccessfully, eventually turning to powerful Blood Magic after exhausting all other options, eventually falling to the corruption of the art of Blood Magic.

Battle Support
Starting at 2nd level when you choose this Path, you acquire the training necessary to defend yourself from attacks in combat. You gain proficiency in Light Armor and Shields, though you still require a dagger in 1 hand and another open hand in order to utilize Bloodcasting.
You additionally gain proficiency in 1 of (Your choice) Perception, Insight, Survival, or Medicine.

Blood Aura
Starting at 2nd level when you choose this path, you’ve discovered the ability to use your Blood Magic to emanate an Aura of lifeforce driven magic at the price of your own vitality. Your Blood Aura may be activated at any time as an Action at the cost of lowering your Maximum Health by 1/3 (Rounded down) while the aura is active. When your Blood Aura is dropped, dispelled, or otherwise discontinued, your Maximum Health returns to its normal amount but your current health remains as is. This aura requires your concentration, and continues for as long as you choose to concentrate on it, however, you need not make concentration checks when hit with a melee attack or spell. Additionally, you may change your Blood Aura as an Action at any time. You may activate/change your Blood Aura a number of times equal to your Constitution Modifier per day.

Blood Aid
When you choose this aura, Each ally within 30 ft has experiences an increase in maximum and current hitpoints by 5 for the duration of the Aura. Any time a friendly creature is within 30 ft of you during combat, they gain +1 AC and +1 to Saving Throws.

Blood Assault
When you choose this aura, whenever an ally is within 30 ft of you deals an extra 1d4 Necrotic Damage when they hit with a weapon attack. Additionally, any ally who casts a spell while they are within 30 ft of you gains +1 to their spell attack for that spell.

Blood Fatigue
When you choose this aura, whenever an enemy is within 30 ft of your presence you are warded against them. Whenever an enemy targets you with an attack or a harmful spell they must first make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failure, the enemy must choose a new target or lose the attack or spell. This Aura does not protect the Blood Mage against Area effects, such as a fireball, so long as the Blood Mage is not the direct target of the spell or effect. Additionally, Enemies within this 30 ft radius must make a Constitution saving throw at the start of their turn. On a failure, the enemy takes 1d6 psychic damage as their mind fatigues inside the Blood Mage’s aura, and no damage on a successful save.

Blood Bond
Starting at 6th level, you gain the ability to magically bond with those affected by your Blood Aura. Any time an ally who is currently within range and under the effects of your Blood Aura (Either Blood Aid or Blood Assault) takes damage, you may spend your reaction to transfer any number of temporary hitpoints from you to them prior to the damage being deducted from their hitpoints. For example, if you have 8 Temporary Hitpoints and an ally who is within your Blood Aura is hit with a melee attack for 20 damage, you may transfer those 8 Temporary Hitpoints to said ally by spending your reaction, resulting in them taking only 12 total hitpoints worth of damage. You may not transfer more temporary hitpoints to your ally than damage they’re receiving.

Improved Concentration
Starting at 10th level, you’ve become adept at maintaining your Blood Aura. It no longer requires your concentration, and you are able to maintain concentration on another spell while still maintaining your Blood Aura.

Empowered Blood Aura
Starting at 14th level, your Blood Aura grows in strength;

Blood Aid
When you choose this aura, Each ally within 30 ft has experiences an increase in maximum and current hitpoints by 10 for the duration of the Aura. Any time a friendly creature is within 30 ft of you during combat, they gain +2 AC and +2 to their Saving throws.

Blood Assault
When you choose this aura, whenever an ally is within 30 ft of you deals an extra 1d8 Necrotic Damage when they hit with a weapon attack. Additionally, any ally who casts a spell while they are within 30 ft of you gains +2 to their spell attack or +1 to their Spell Save D/C for that spell.

Blood Fatigue
When you choose this aura, whenever an enemy is within 30 ft of your presence you are warded against them. Whenever an enemy targets you with an attack or a harmful spell they must first make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failure, the enemy must choose a new target or lose the attack or spell. This Aura does not protect the Blood Mage against Area effects, such as a fireball, so long as the Blood Mage is not the direct target of the spell or effect. Additionally, Enemies within this 30 ft radius must make a Constitution saving throw at the start of their turn. On a failure, the enemy takes 2d6 psychic damage as their mind fatigues inside the Blood Mage’s aura, and no damage on a successful save.




Path of Enhancement
The Path of Enhancement is reserved for individuals who seek to use their Blood Magic to empower their own body and weapons, enhancing their armor or weapon with Blood energy. Some wear medium armor, slashing with their Battleaxe as they throw fireballs, others utilize lighter armor to hide in the shadows and surprise enemies with their Rapier. Those who travel down the Path of Enhancement trend more towards melee combat, utilizing their weapon in conjunction with magic to both harm foes and draw out their lifeforce.



Blood Mage Warrior
Starting at 2nd level when you choose this Path, you acquire the training necessary to effectively arm yourself for battle. You gain proficiency in Light Armor, Medium Armor, and Martial Bladed Weapons without reach (Battleaxe, Greataxe, Greatsword, Longsword, Rapier, Scimitar, Shortsword, War Pick).
You additionally gain proficiency in 1 of (Your choice) Acrobatics, Athletics, or Stealth.

Blood Enhanced Speed
When you choose this path at 2nd level, you learn how to quickly weave in and out of melee combat, using the pain from the open wounds of an enemy to magically distract them. After you use your action or bonus action to make an attack, you gain the benefits from the disengage action if the enemy is not at full health.

Blood-Tinged Weapon
Starting at 6th level, you have learned to utilize the arcane power of your blood to enhance your weapon. While in combat, as a bonus action, you may run a 1 handed bladed weapon across your empty hand, enhancing the blade as you bleed on it. For the next 1 minute, You may add your Spellcasting (Constitution) modifier to your damage with this weapon, this additional damage counts as Necrotic damage, and you gain Temporary Hitpoints equal to the necrotic damage dealt in this way. The Temporary Hitpoints granted by this ability last until the end of your next turn.

Blood-Tinged Armor
Starting at 10th level, you gain the ability to magically utilize your fresh blood to enhance armor when in combat. Whenever you are in combat and below full health, your light armor is empowered by the lifeforce of your blood and gains +2 AC.

Battle Magic
Starting at 14th level, you have mastered the art of spell casting and weapon use into a single act. When you use your action to cast a Blood Mage spell, you can make a weapon attack as a Bonus Action.

[loki_ragnarock]

Vampiric Touch as a cantrip? At range?

You... you don't see a problem with that?

[Spectrulus]

I would consider it far easier to make a subclass than a full class, possibly Sorcerer or Wizard with the option to create a spell slot by hit points equal to 5 times the spell level created per short rest.

That Cantrip is broken, I wouldn't add it. If anything, a Cantrip that let's you spend a hit dice without resting is sufficient.

Something like:

Recoup Blood
1 action
Self
You may spend 1 hit dice to recover health without needing to take a rest. Your hit dice recover as normal during a long rest.
At level 5 you may spend 2 hit dice, at level 11 you may spend 3 hit dice, and at level 17 4 hit dice without resting.

I would look to the 3rd edition Blood Magus for inspiration. I put some of its options below.

Blood Draught: store a spell in their blood for later (special Glyph spell)

Bloodseeking spell: take 3 damage to add 1d6 damage to a spell's damage rolls.

Thicker than water: 1/short rest, gain resistance to a source of physical damage.

Infusion: gain +2 Con, up to 22 I would guess. Giant Soul sorcerers have this one, so it's a high level idea.

Bloodwalk: 1/long rest, make a melee spell attack. If successful, you then walk through blood of a creature and teleport to another creature of that type you specify a distance and direction away. You may choose to harm the creature you exit, forcing them to make a Con saving throw or take Xd6 damage and be stunned, or save for half damage and no stun.

[Grimmnist]

Cool concept that I've played around a bit with custom magic items. One item I made that may work as a class feature allowed my player to lose X health to gain 2X temporary hitpoints and be surrounded by a blood shell (I was picturing a blood elemental). It prevented healing from normal methods, prevented casting spells, nerfed the AC but gave some strong offensive options.

This class seems really difficult to balance, creating alternate methods of casting spells is a massive change. For example casting a 9th level spell for the cost of only 18 health is pretty trivial especially as you can combo this with a healer such as a life cleric for nearly infinite spell slots.

One balance note, the cantrip should change the wording so you regain health equal to the damage dealt otherwise resistance and immunity get janky. (I'm picturing two Aasimar Blood Mages using this on each other to heal to full). As Loki pointed out Healing cantrips are potentially problematic, because none exist vanilla.

[Tallytrev813]

Vampiric Touch as a cantrip? At range?

You... you don't see a problem with that?

Ok, so i just started making the class today, so i anticipate it will need some balancing.

But, having said that, im not really sure how you got "Vampiric touch at a range" from this. Thats a silly attempt at delegitimizing the idea.

First of all, Vampiric touch is 3d6, while this is 1d6.
Secondly, Vampiric touch is concentration - thus repeatable.
Thirdly, this cantrip requires the target to already be damaged (Exposed blood to drain), so undamaged targets are not eligible.


Now, if your question is - "Do I think 1d6 necrotic damage + 1d6 health regain" is overpowered...my answer is no, i do not. A melee combatant is doing 1d8 to 1d12 + their Str/Dex mod. A caster, like a Warlock or Wizard, is likely doing 1d10-1d12 cantrip damage.

Hell, Toll the Dead is 1d12 damage with a similar stipulation of the target being damaged, and it doesnt have the pre-requisit of not being able to target undamaged targets.

I do not think 1d6/1d6 is overpowered. It's pretty good, and it's meant to be pretty good - since it's the class' concept. Similarly to how Eldritch blast is good for Warlocks.

[JNAProductions]

Bag of Rats Problem.

Despite rats only having 1 HP, this still fails it. Just punch them for 1 point of damage, and then drain their blood to kill 'em.

Edit: Not to mention, Vampiric Touch is:

1) A 3rd level spell
2) Concentration
3) Equal damage at level 11+
4) Only restores half HP
5) Touch range

The literal ONLY disadvantage your cantrip has is it requires a damaged target. Admittedly, Vampiric Touch is a subpar 3rd level spell, but it's not THAT subpar.

[Tallytrev813]

Cool concept that I've played around a bit with custom magic items. One item I made that may work as a class feature allowed my player to lose X health to gain 2X temporary hitpoints and be surrounded by a blood shell (I was picturing a blood elemental). It prevented healing from normal methods, prevented casting spells, nerfed the AC but gave some strong offensive options.

This class seems really difficult to balance, creating alternate methods of casting spells is a massive change. For example casting a 9th level spell for the cost of only 18 health is pretty trivial especially as you can combo this with a healer such as a life cleric for nearly infinite spell slots.

One balance note, the cantrip should change the wording so you regain health equal to the damage dealt otherwise resistance and immunity get janky. (I'm picturing two Aasimar Blood Mages using this on each other to heal to full). As Loki pointed out Healing cantrips are potentially problematic, because none exist vanilla.

I intentionally did not post quite a bit ive been building to try to balance the class. I am aware higher level spells may need higher health cost and so on.

Regarding the cantrip - the wording was meant to say the health is equal to the damage dealt. I may need to reword it as i see your point. I also may need to alter it do it's only usable in combat to prevent any of that abuse.

[Tallytrev813]

Bag of Rats Problem.

Despite rats only having 1 HP, this still fails it. Just punch them for 1 point of damage, and then drain their blood to kill 'em.

Edit: Not to mention, Vampiric Touch is:

1) A 3rd level spell
2) Concentration
3) Equal damage at level 11+
4) Only restores half HP
5) Touch range

The literal ONLY disadvantage your cantrip has is it requires a damaged target. Admittedly, Vampiric Touch is a subpar 3rd level spell, but it's not THAT subpar.

Im not understanding the bag of rats problem.
Are you saying you'd catch a bunch of rats and carry them in a sack to drain them for 1 life each out of combat? Because that doesnt work.
You'd kill the rat with a 1 HP punch, and you cant drain health from a dead creature. You heal what you damage on the cantrip.


Also, im kind of looking for ideas for level 18 and 20 features, not critiques of the cantrip lol. Everyone seems pretty focused on that

[JNAProductions]

Im not understanding the bag of rats problem.
Are you saying you'd catch a bunch of rats and carry them in a sack to drain them for 1 life each out of combat?

That's basically the bag of rats, yeah. Carry around a sack of rats (or other small, mostly harmless creature) and abuse poorly worded abilities in between combats. Frogs might work better, honestly, since they don't bite.

But even if the cantrip is purely used in combat, it's still too good. It makes keeping your HP up trivial, while losing at most 3 points of damage per tier (as compared to Toll The Dead).

Also, this belongs in the homebrew subforum, not the 5E one.

Edit: The rat doesn't die from the 1 HP damage-they're dying. They die from the cantrip, but that's still HP gained at no cost.

And just because you want ideas for something you've provided very little info on, doesn't mean your cantrip is exempt from critique.

[Tallytrev813]

That's basically the bag of rats, yeah. Carry around a sack of rats (or other small, mostly harmless creature) and abuse poorly worded abilities in between combats. Frogs might work better, honestly, since they don't bite.

But even if the cantrip is purely used in combat, it's still too good. It makes keeping your HP up trivial, while losing at most 3 points of damage per tier (as compared to Toll The Dead).

Also, this belongs in the homebrew subforum, not the 5E one.

Edit: The rat doesn't die from the 1 HP damage-they're dying. They die from the cantrip, but that's still HP gained at no cost.

And just because you want ideas for something you've provided very little info on, doesn't mean your cantrip is exempt from critique.

My mistake on the location of the thread, i wasnt aware of that other of the other subforum.

But, thats not how the Cantrip would read - If a creature had 1 HP, and you punched it for 1 dmg reducing that HP to 0, then my intention is for the cantrip to read such that there is 0 HP left there to steal.

I'd also need to make it an in combat cantrip. I also dont think it makes keeping your HP up trivial. 1d6 is what - an average of 3.5? So a cantrip that deals 3.5 dmg and heals 3.5 health as your action doesnt seem overpowered to me when your using double that heal amount to cast one of your level 3 spells.

I will likely need to scale the health cost better, but if you want to use 3-4 actions to restore the health it cost to cast a spell you used and do 4 damage a round IF you hit with the spell attack, that seems like a lot of wasted turns to me.

But, like i said, ive never done something like this so im learning as i go

[moonfly7]

So this shpuld actually be moved to homebrew, not plain old 5e. That said, blood hunter? It expands your hit points to do kind of magic. I know it's more melee, less magic, but use some of its features as a base maybe and make the blood mage as sort of caster version of the blood hunter, which is already pretty balanced.

[loki_ragnarock]

First of all, Vampiric touch is 3d6, while this is 1d6.

Until 11th level. And then it's... 3d6, yeah? At range. Without a spell slot. At will.

I'm not trying to delegitimize the idea, I'm just asking if you're comfortable making vampiric touch a cantrip. If you are, mazel tov. But I'd be remiss if I didn't point it out. I'd also be remiss if I didn't mention that Making it a cantrip to support the idea also leaves it open to bards stealing it, magic initiates stealing it, tomelocks stealing it, probably other hijinks I can't think of like maybe edge case arcana clerics stealing it; as a cantrip it won't stay in the hands of the class you intend it for, even if it's an exclusive spell to the blood mage's list.
So, again, is that something you're comfortable with it being cast by bards, warlocks, fighters, and rogues? Are you comfortable with a Sorcerer multiclass twinning and quickening it?


Where I think I'm more uncomfortable is that it's an at will, at range vampiric touch on a concept where hp are also spell slots. That's a recovery mechanic that gets very difficult to balance, I suspect. Without more to go with though, it might be perfectly fine.
I'd personally recommend that you turn it into a class feature rather than a cantrip in either case.

[Tallytrev813]

Until 11th level. And then it's... 3d6, yeah? At range. Without a spell slot. At will.

I'm not trying to delegitimize the idea, I'm just asking if you're comfortable making vampiric touch a cantrip. If you are, mazel tov. But I'd be remiss if I didn't point it out. I'd also be remiss if I didn't mention that Making it a cantrip to support the idea also leaves it open to bards stealing it, magic initiates stealing it, tomelocks stealing it, probably other hijinks I can't think of like maybe edge case arcana clerics stealing it; as a cantrip it won't stay in the hands of the class you intend it for, even if it's an exclusive spell to the blood mage's list.
So, again, is that something you're comfortable with it being cast by bards, warlocks, fighters, and rogues? Are you comfortable with a Sorcerer multiclass twinning and quickening it?


Where I think I'm more uncomfortable is that it's an at will, at range vampiric touch on a concept where hp are also spell slots. That's a recovery mechanic that gets very difficult to balance, I suspect. Without more to go with though, it might be perfectly fine.
I'd personally recommend that you turn it into a class feature rather than a cantrip in either case.

Thats a really good idea - Re: turning it into a class feature. Thanks!
I may have to tweak it around some. Maybe make it useable #=Spellcasting mod per long rest or something

[Tallytrev813]

It seems like maybe people are more prepared to critique than offer new ideas (totally fine, dont mean for that to be read in a passive aggressive way)...

The class im making i wanted to do something a little unorthodox so maybe people can tell me if its a bad idea, but i wanted his spellcasting stat to be Constitution.

[moonfly7]

It seems like maybe people are more prepared to critique than offer new ideas (totally fine, dont mean for that to be read in a passive aggressive way)...

The class im making i wanted to do something a little unorthodox so maybe people can tell me if its a bad idea, but i wanted his spellcasting stat to be Constitution.

I love that idea. Id suggest expending actual health for high powered spell like affects actually. Give a d12 hit die and every 10 points above the first hit point you spend is like another spell slot. Let them epend hit die as an action becayse they need it to just survive and cast. Thatd be awesome. I'd play it.

[JackPhoenix]

First of all, Vampiric touch is 3d6, while this is 1d6.

And this will scale, being 2d6 at the level when you actually get Vampiric Touch, and being equal at level 11 and better at level 17, and Vampiric Touch only gives you half the damage caused back.

Secondly, Vampiric touch is concentration - thus repeatable.

Which makes it actually WORSE. This is a cantrip, thus ALSO repeatable, but without the need for initial spell slot investment, and without taking your concentration.

Thirdly, this cantrip requires the target to already be damaged (Exposed blood to drain), so undamaged targets are not eligible.

Which is laughably easy condition to fulfil.

I do not think 1d6/1d6 is overpowered. It's pretty good, and it's meant to be pretty good - since it's the class' concept. Similarly to how Eldritch blast is good for Warlocks.

Just because you do not think so doesn't make it true.

But, thats not how the Cantrip would read - If a creature had 1 HP, and you punched it for 1 dmg reducing that HP to 0, then my intention is for the cantrip to read such that there is 0 HP left there to steal.

But that's how the cantrip does read... it doesn't matter what is the damage you've caused, you restore the amount of HP rolled regardless. You can get a pet specter (there are many ways to do that), somehow hurt it for 1 damage to fulfil the "must be damaged" requirement, and keep it around as eternal HP battery, as it's immune to necrotic damage.

[Tallytrev813]

And this will scale, being 2d6 at the level when you actually get Vampiric Touch, and being equal at level 11 and better at level 17, and Vampiric Touch only gives you half the damage caused back.



Which makes it actually WORSE. This is a cantrip, thus ALSO repeatable, but without the need for initial spell slot investment, and without taking your concentration.



Which is laughably easy condition to fulfil.



Just because you do not think so doesn't make it true.



But that's how the cantrip does read... it doesn't matter what is the damage you've caused, you restore the amount of HP rolled regardless. You can get a pet specter (there are many ways to do that), somehow hurt it for 1 damage to fulfil the "must be damaged" requirement, and keep it around as eternal HP battery, as it's immune to necrotic damage.

Do you feel better about yourself? Seriously?
Ive never done this before, its not that serious. I made it up, i can change it. It's not a big deal. Your bad attitude, however, is offensive. Feel free not to reply in the thread.

[JNAProductions]

Do you feel better about yourself? Seriously?
Ive never done this before, its not that serious. I made it up, i can change it. It's not a big deal. Your bad attitude, however, is offensive. Feel free not to reply in the thread.

Tally, if you can't take critique, don't post your homebrew.

While JP may have been a little too blunt, their critiques are fully accurate.

[loki_ragnarock]

The class im making i wanted to do something a little unorthodox so maybe people can tell me if its a bad idea, but i wanted his spellcasting stat to be Constitution.

Making it constitution will have the side effect of making concentration effects very difficult to dislodge from this particular caster.

Which is fine if that's something you're comfortable with. You might even lean into that theme; concentration might be a strong aspect of the class. Something like a damage/speed/skill bonus while you have a concentration effect up?

[Grod_The_Giant]

I'd very much suggest demoing this to either a Warlock or Sorcerer subclass. "Blood caster" strikes me as much more of a sub-specialty than a broad archetype like "wizard." I'm certainly not a PHB purist or anything (I've written what, six new classes now?), but a good rule of thumb is that if you can't think of at least three distinct subclass archetypes, your concept probably is too narrow to make a good class.

A Sorcerer subclass, though, would work well, because sorcery points are already halfway to what you want. Just let Blood Mages spend hit points in place of sorcery points (at an appropriate ratio) and you've got the core mechanic pretty much down.

At the very least, check out the Spell Points variant from the DMG; that'll give you a good guide to the relative values of spell slots-- it's not purely linear.

[Spectrulus]

I'd very much suggest demoing this to either a Warlock or Sorcerer subclass. "Blood caster" strikes me as much more of a sub-specialty than a broad archetype like "wizard."...

When it comes to homebrew, I trust in Grod_The_Giant.

Thanks for seconding my suggestion!

[JNAProductions]

When it comes to homebrew, I trust in Grod_The_Giant.

Thanks for seconding my suggestion!

I second listening to Grod, which therefore theirds Spect's suggestion.

I also support his significantly less confrontational approach to offering advice, and should probably take a leaf from that myself.

[Tallytrev813]

Tally, if you can't take critique, don't post your homebrew.

While JP may have been a little too blunt, their critiques are fully accurate.

Moreso frustrating when i ask about level 18/20 Class feature ideas and get badgered about how unbalanced the cantrip is that i only posted to give an idea of the class concept.

Saying things like, "Just because you don't think so doesn't make it true" is not constructive criticism, it's rude. I made it perfectly clear in 3-4 other posts PRIOR to his that i had never done this before and that i was aware it would need some balancing. The point of his post was to harp on abusable text that had already been addressed previously in the thread.

He wasn't looking to critique - he was looking to argue. That seemed pretty clear to me.

[Tallytrev813]

I'd very much suggest demoing this to either a Warlock or Sorcerer subclass. "Blood caster" strikes me as much more of a sub-specialty than a broad archetype like "wizard." I'm certainly not a PHB purist or anything (I've written what, six new classes now?), but a good rule of thumb is that if you can't think of at least three distinct subclass archetypes, your concept probably is too narrow to make a good class.

A Sorcerer subclass, though, would work well, because sorcery points are already halfway to what you want. Just let Blood Mages spend hit points in place of sorcery points (at an appropriate ratio) and you've got the core mechanic pretty much down.

At the very least, check out the Spell Points variant from the DMG; that'll give you a good guide to the relative values of spell slots-- it's not purely linear.

Thanks,

The reason i made it a new class (Im building it with my table im playing ToA with now) is that we actually have 3 subclasses already geared towards 3 players interested in being involved in building it. So i didnt want to make 3 subclasses of a subclass.

The ideas were;

1.) A glass cannon caster to the extreme - who is unbuffed wizardly squishy and has no access to spells like Shield AND that sac's his life to drop heavy blasting.

2.) A healer with the concept of "I give my lifeforce to heal all of yours"

3.) A melee who gains access to light armor, cuts/bleeds onto their 1 handed bladed weapon to enchant it with a lifesteal effect, and who uses their own blood from wounds caused by enemies to gain AC as they drop in HP.

I may look into how Sorcery points work (I havent actually played a Sorcerer), but I'm going to try to make this balanced. I dont think it will be hard to word things to prevent abusing them out of combat, ive gotten some good input and ideas in this thread for ways to prevent that and ive got a few ideas of my own

[Tallytrev813]

Making it constitution will have the side effect of making concentration effects very difficult to dislodge from this particular caster.

Which is fine if that's something you're comfortable with. You might even lean into that theme; concentration might be a strong aspect of the class. Something like a damage/speed/skill bonus while you have a concentration effect up?

Yes, this is a concept we're trying to run with. We wanted to make the class initially SAD, and then give some incentive towards another Ability once the subclasses split based on the subclass.

Dex for a melee/rogue type
Wisdom for a healing type
and Intelligence for a glass cannon

[Grod_The_Giant]

Mkay. That is a reasonable range of archetypes for a full class.

[Tallytrev813]

I love that idea. Id suggest expending actual health for high powered spell like affects actually. Give a d12 hit die and every 10 points above the first hit point you spend is like another spell slot. Let them epend hit die as an action becayse they need it to just survive and cast. Thatd be awesome. I'd play it.

Yes! This was very close to the concept we wanted to roll with. I really like the idea of a feature being that you can expend hit die to heal in combat. May make the class unaffected by magical healing from party members but still able to use Health Potions. I'd like them to burn their Hit Die and have a few spells/features that steal health.


Edit: I actually very much appreciate this. I was planning on giving them a d8 hit die and was working through cost of spells - initial idea was spells cost 2x spell slot level - but i think a d12 hit die reflecting their resilience after practicing with their own blood and maybe 4xSpell slot level works a little better. Bigger health pool, high cost spells. 1st level spells at 4 heals seems appropriately risky. 9th level spell slot at 36 health may not be a high enough price though.

I think i need to calculate the health pool of a level 20 d12 + max con caster and see what amount of HP a 9th level spell should cost. I'd think it would need to be hefty, like 1/3 - 1/4 of their health or something.

[Tallytrev813]

Mkay. That is a reasonable range of archetypes for a full class.

Thank you for the thoughts though - very much would appreciate any input into the idea as i go.

I originally made the thread as i had begun to dry up with ideas for Class/Subclass features, but am getting some great stuff here.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Thank you for the thoughts though - very much would appreciate any input into the idea as i go.

I originally made the thread as i had begun to dry up with ideas for Class/Subclass features, but am getting some great stuff here.

A possible capstone, I think, would be to cast from another, willing creature's blood-- you touch them, and they take the damage instead of you.

[Trickery]

I recommend you give them the usual spell slots and, instead of using life to cast spells, give them a bonus action to spend life to recover spell slots as a bonus action.

The cost should be 5*spell level (see Bladesinger, who has a similar feature), and it should only work on spell slots of 5th level or lower (see Sorcerer). Otherwise things get too weird at high levels.

You could add a feature where a spell can be Empowered by spending 2*spell slot level in HP. Empowered could allow a couple of different Metamagic-like effects, such as changing the damage type to magic weapon (magical blood daggers) or allowing you to add additional damage on top of what the spell already does (perhaps damage = damage done to you, or could be 1d6 per spell level).

What's going to make or break this class is not the mechanics so much as the spell selection. You'll want to create some new, unique spells to make this class feel different. Here's an idea:

Blood Tether: form a blood tether between yourself and a target within 30 feet. If either of you try to move away from the other, you must first succeed on an athletics contest against the other to do so. Regardless, if one target moves, the other is pulled along. Additionally, you can use a bonus action to force the target to make a strength saving throw or be pulled 15 feet closer to you, shortening the tether. A creature under this effect may spend its action to make a strength saving throw, breaking the tether upon a success. Willing targets may choose to fail their saving throw or athletics contest.