Arena Tournament, Round 32: Chile II vs. Roberts

[chilepepper]

Stay in saddle (1d2)[2]
Damage if I fall from saddle (1d6)[6]

I'm in the saddle still.

I'll need a ref to rule on how the mount is going to avoid combat. I obviously want it to stay in the arena, which it could safely do, being able to move further than you.

[Mavian]

You forgot to say which one was you falling :p

[chilepepper]

In d20, higher is always better. 1 is fail, 2 is success.


refs
I am unconscious, in the saddle. My war pony now avoids combat, can it do that while staying in the arena?

[chilepepper]

and here's the sleep-smoke:

One dose affects a globe 10' in diameter on the first round, expanding outward to a globe 20' in diameter on the second round, and being harmless thereafter. A strong wind can move the globe of sleep-smoke.

Inhaled DC15 Initial damage unconsciousness for 1 minute, Secondary damage unconsciousness for 1d3 minutes

[Mavian]

Yeah, I dug it up and threw it in the post I hit you with it. One thought crosses my mind. Does your mount need to make another save on its turn, as its still in the poisons area? I haven't actually looked at the poison rules in forever.

Also, I do believe that I take the remaining acid damage from your breath weapon.

[Talic]

Initiate Ref Talic

By the rules, yes, it does, but only if it is still in the poison cloud at the start of YOUR turn, not its. In addition, it will need to make 2 saves in 1 minute. Inhaled poisons also state that holding your breath is no good, as it enters nasal cavities, tear ducts, etc.

Further, as it's a war pony, it's trained for combat. As chile isn't conscious, he's not controlling it. Does he still choose its actions? Does it go aggressive, or avoid combat? Who controls the mount?

[Mavian]

Um, I'm pretty sure this situation hasn't come up before, so I don't think there is a precedent that's been established, so we're gonna need Kyeudo, Bigmac, or another High ref to make a ruling on it.

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo

The pony will simply act to get as far away from attackers as possible until it either falls asleep or his rider wakes up. It's actualy called out in the rules that if you become unconcious, your mount avoids combat. Since your mount can't open doors, it can't leave the arena, and so you won't end up DQed by a ring out.

As long as Chilepepper follows the simple guideline of "as far away from any attackers as possible" I see no need for a ref to control the pony.

[chilepepper]

Round 6
Alright so on your turn in round 15, I'll wake up or fail a second save.

Here's the rest of your damage from my breath weapon. (1d6)[2]

Double move to J2

[Mavian]

Roberts - Round 6

Free Action: Reload Crossbow
Double Move to K13 in a non threatening manner, putting my crossbow away as a free action during the move.

End of Turn:

Stats for Refs:

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Hp: 6/10
Position: O20
AC: 18. 15. 13,
Speed: 30
Bolts: 48

[chilepepper]

Round 7

Double move to Z1

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HP: 5
AC: 23 T:14 F:19 (not including unconsciousness)
DR 10/magic (vs ranged)
Spells: 1,3
Buffs: Mage Armor 7/600, Shield 6/10, Protection from Arrows 3/1200 (0/20 dmg)
Position: Z1, mounted, unconscious

[Mavian]

Roberts

Run from K13 to Y2

Questions For Refs:

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I still want to know how an unconscious rider manages to stay on a horse thats double moving. Also, I want to appear less threatening, (1d20+2)[12] so a random charisma roll to do so.

End of turn: Although I would like my questions answered at some point.

Stats for Refs:

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Hp: 6/10
Position: O20
AC: 18. 15. 13,: 13/10/13 due to running.
Speed: 30
Bolts: 48

[chilepepper]

Run from K13 to Y2

That's an illegal move.

[Mavian]

A straight line from the center of K13 to the center of Y2 passes through nothing that would prevent movement, so how is it an illegal move?

[chilepepper]

You mean nothing except the hard corner at the intersection of M/N 11/12. You can't move diagonally past a hard corner, which means you have to be in M11 during your move. A straight line from K13 thru M11 ends at O9.

[Bronz]

High Ref Bronz

Wow, this is a mess. I didn't have time to read it all. BUT!

1. The Dread Pirate's move was legal. Broke out paint for it and the corner is not in the way. Movement is not restricted square by square but by lines (it's counted square by square however).

2. I didn't check where the pony was the round after the poison, but if it was still in the cloud of smoke it would need to make another save. It is another exposure, and would have to save again in another minute. Multiple exposures, even of the same poison, stack.

3. I'm not even sure where that 50/50 chance to stay in the saddle came from. If it is precedent in this arena I don't know about it and if it is official RAW I can't find it. Also, Chile, in the d20 system rolls on a d20 are always better higher. Percentage chances are dictated by the roller (high/low, over/under etc.). Please post your chance next time.

@Mavian

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As you can see I don't know about the rule either. I checked the ride skill and nothing says anything about staying in the saddle while unconscious.

Also, as you don't have wild empathy you can't affect the animal's attitude in one way or another.

@Mavian
[spoiler]

[Mavian]

The 50/50 thing is listed in the ride skill for not falling off. I was the one who proposed the unconscious people have a chance to fall off horses addendum to it because I have a feeling I'm going to be stuck chasing around a bloody horse for the next 30 rounds.

The horse/poison thing was resolved earlier.

And I just have a straightedge I put on the monitor to draw lines. Don't need no fancy paint program that way.

[chilepepper]

It's not listed in the ride skill, at least not in the SRD. However, it is listed in the mounted combat section. The relevant text is:

If You Are Dropped

If you are knocked unconscious, you have a 50% chance to stay in the saddle (or 75% if you’re in a military saddle). Otherwise you fall and take 1d6 points of damage.

Without you to guide it, your mount avoids combat.

The rules clearly say that you get a 50% chance to stay in the saddle at the point you are knocked unconscious. It goes on to say the mount avoids combat, so the mount moving after the rider falls unconscious is dealt with and it never mentions a need for another check to stay in the saddle.

The horse poison thing: the poison was thrown on my opponents turn, so a second exposure and save would have been necessary, but not until her following turn. The horse was already out of the poison by then. The secondary damage save is happening on the bottom of the 15th round.

BTW, sorry about not stating prior to rolling the d2, I assume it's just the nature of d20 since that was a specific point in the change from 2nd edition. One of the designers said, '...higher is always better in d20.'

[Talic]

Initiate Ref Talic
Also located in the equipment section, under Saddles:

Military
A military saddle braces the rider, providing a +2 circumstance bonus on Ride checks related to staying in the saddle. If you’re knocked unconscious while in a military saddle, you have a 75% chance to stay in the saddle (compared to 50% for a riding saddle).

[chilepepper]

RAW would seem to indicate a need to check when knocked unconscious, not while unconscious.

[chilepepper]

I guess I'll go ahead with the next round.

Round 8
Run to Z26

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Spoiler

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HP: 5
AC: 23 T:14 F:19 (not including unconsciousness)
DR 10/magic (vs ranged)
Spells: 1,3
Buffs: Mage Armor 8/600, Shield 7/10, Protection from Arrows 6/1200 (0/20 dmg)
Position: Z26, mounted, unconscious

[Mavian]

When you move out of Z2, I'm going to attempt to reach out and grab Chile and trip him off his mount.

Touch Attack: (1d20+3)[10] - This provokes an AoO from Chile.
If it hits, we have opposed Trip Checks (1d20-1)[11]

[chilepepper]

What let's you attack when it's not your turn?

[Mavian]

Moving through a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity. Any attack of opportunity can be any form of attack including trips, sunders, disarms and grapples.

[chilepepper]

Except you don't threaten. (and it's actually leaving a threatened square provokes)

[Mavian]

Yes I do. Armor spikes for the win.

[chilepepper]

AAAhhhhrrrgggghh. I totally forgot about the armor spikes. Alright, lemme figure my math.

[chilepepper]

Okay, the touch attack hits.

So I can use Dex at -5, Str at -4, or Ride at -3.
C'mon, big money, big money, no whammies!
Opposed Trip Check (using ride) (1d20-3)[-2]

edit: Alright, I'm prone in Z2 and the pony is in Z26, I'm willing to call this match a draw

[Mavian]

And a frog-splash for the win.

Coup de gras with Armor Spikes.
(2d6-2)[8]

[chilepepper]

I'm dead, but I want a rematch. Talic had me roll a sense motive check and applied penalties based on range. Sense motive has no penalties for range and Talic is an initiate judge, he can't invent new rules. I actually passed the sense motive check.