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Thread: Savage Worlds
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2008-08-17, 02:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Savage Worlds
Anyone played it? What did you think?
An old gaming buddy of mine is really getting into it, since his former-favorite system, d6, is...suffering difficulties...I guess (I'm not really savvy on all of it, all I know is what I read in an e-mail from him). He's never really been a big fan of 3.5 and doesn't realy like 4e, either (go-go-2e & L5R, I guess).
Anyone tried the Evernight or Necessary Evil campaigns? Worth the $19.95 price for the .pdfs?
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2008-08-17, 04:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Savage Worlds
I admit I haven't played it, so play experience could reveal otherwise, and my impressions are from reading the book on the shelf several months ago... but my impressions were overwhelmingly negative. Each rule I read was worse than the last, and I was making houserules in my head just to make the rules make any sense as I was reading. Initiative was a needless subsystem, multiple action penalties were insanely draconian, and indeed any penalties at all on your action was almost a guarantee of failure, the system promoted the worst (in my opinion) type of min/maxing, the system seemed to believe it was delivering a system of cinematic action, but the skills system was more simulationist than cinematic.
I've heard tale told of the game being very quick in play, but I don't know how that's possible, since the default system of tactical movement was gridless and miniatures based. That means any time you want to move in combat you're pulling out a ruler to see how far you go.
Now, I've talked to maybe a half dozen people who swear by the system, and won't run any system but Savage Worlds, so maybe I just haven't seen how elegant it is in play, but when I put down the book I said to myself, "When I designed my first RPG system for the Redwall book series at the age of eleven, I made a better system than this."
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2008-08-17, 06:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Savage Worlds
I recommend giving the Quick Start Rules a read through. I like Savage Worlds a lot, though I am not overly keen on the initiative system.
It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between.
– Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)
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2008-08-17, 08:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Savage Worlds
I concur on the initiative system, that's something I would definitely houseule. I think the cards system are a holdover from the origins of the system in Deadlands or something. Admittedly, I may be a bit biased, though, since I don't generally like card-based games with a few rare exceptions (OOTS is okay and I can tolerate Munchkin from time to time) and can't stand when they bleed over into RPGs. If you have dice, why bother with smeggy playing cards?
Yeah, the movement system is kind of wonky, but easy enough to use that it doesn't really bother me. I'd probably just run minis on a hex grid with each hex = 6'/2" or whatever. Would make converting effects from other systems a pain since pretty much every other system I'm familiar uses a 5'-base (with the possible exception of one or two games with metric bases).
I admit that I do like the core mechanic, using multiple sized dice to simulate skill/talent. I was working on a somewhat similar system of my own a while back that did the same thing, but on a larger scale (used d20's and d30's for super-human and god-like stats/skills). In my system, your ability score set the die type, and skill ranks set the number of dice you'd roll for a check. I ran into some serious issues with standardizing the TN scale, though, since the extreme results of rolls had a large degree of divergence. (Default, unskilled roll was 1d, minor skill 2d, moderate skill 3d, etc. Poor abilities were d4, average d6, good d8, etc. So, if you were unskilled at something based off a poor ability, you were virtually guaranteed to fail utterly with virtually no chance of success unless the base TN was so ridiculously low that everyone else would be guaranteed success if they were either more skilled or more talented; chances improved moderately with open rolls but that became a bit of an issue itself in the event of exploding results among highly-skilled characters).
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2008-08-17, 09:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
Re: Savage Worlds
I've also only read the rules, but I thought they were elegant. It's a bit rules-heavy... but it's supposed to be so that's fine.
I actually like cards in a game, not necessarily as they use them in SW but as an alternate resolution mechanism, like for instance in Everway (tarot cards are used to indicate success or failure and also possibly what went wrong, how to fix it and so on...).Last edited by namo; 2008-08-17 at 09:24 AM.
"Even gods must learn to control their tempers, lest they set a bad example."
The Malazan Book of the Fallen, Steven Erikson
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2008-08-17, 10:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2005
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Re: Savage Worlds
It's one of my favorite game systems. SW does heroic or pulp action very well and very fast.
An old gaming buddy of mine is really getting into it, since his former-favorite system, d6, is...suffering difficulties...I guess (I'm not really savvy on all of it, all I know is what I read in an e-mail from him). He's never really been a big fan of 3.5 and doesn't realy like 4e, either (go-go-2e & L5R, I guess).
Combat is very fast and allows cinematic "Tricks" or "Tests of Will" to directly affect combat. This keeps all character builds potentially effective in combat. You don't need a high fighting skill to trip or confuse an opponent.
Anyone tried the Evernight or Necessary Evil campaigns? Worth the $19.95 price for the .pdfs?
The one advantage to the card initiative system is really visibility. It's easy for any one at the table to see who is next. Combat speed and flexibility are the systems strong points.
- You can run a combat with 20+ combatants in less than an hour.
- Combatants don't need to be optimized for combat to be effective.
- There's a simple system for resolving cinematic stunts and tricks.
- There is very little combat accounting needed.
- Character creation is simple, primarily revolving around choice of edges.
I recommend trying the game for a couple sessions. It's easy to learn and plays very quickly. Enjoy!Last edited by Raum; 2008-08-17 at 10:23 AM.
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I laugh at myself first, before anyone else can.
-- Paraphrased from Elsa Maxwell
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The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you.
-- Paul Graham in Keep Your Identity Small
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2008-08-17, 11:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
Re: Savage Worlds
My take on SW - it's fast, fun, and easy. Do you have a pile of star wars minis and want to run a simple star wars adventure? DONE.
Want to have a session where you bust out with adventurer teams competing to get to the top of an undead infested temple first? DONE.
Do you want to have a long, protracted, campaign... well... yes, you can do it. I don't think this game system would be the best for it though.
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2008-08-17, 12:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Savage Worlds
Ive only dabbled in it, but it was quite good.
We did Star Wars with it, and despite no one being a Jedi in a Jedi focused adventure it went well enough.Last edited by Leon; 2008-08-17 at 12:14 PM.
Thankyou to NEOPhyte for the Techpriest Engiseer
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Current PC's
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2008-08-17, 12:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
Re: Savage Worlds
From what I've seen, the core concept is pretty solid, the game moves quickly, and its versatile. Basically it shares the same concept as Fudge, which I personally like a bit better.
I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.
I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that. -- ChubbyRain
Current Design Project: Legacy, a game of masters and apprentices for two players and a GM.
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2008-08-18, 11:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Savage Worlds
Savage Worlds is a great system. It may be a little difficult for "D&D" players to get into, as a lot of the systems are very different.
It us a dream come true for game masters who are short on prep time.
Combat is fast! You can't beat the price either. 10 dollars for a rulebook is just fantastic.
The community on their forms is one of the best.http://www.peginc.com/forum/index.php
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2008-08-18, 01:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Savage Worlds
I have the core book, I was just wondering if the additional material (edges, story, etc.) in those books are worth the pricetag for someone curious about the system. Since they're OOP and only available (to me) in .pdf form, I can't just go down to the local hobby store and thumb through them for a quick look at what I'd be purchasing.
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2008-08-18, 07:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Savage Worlds
I see. Well I recommend against Evernight, it's really just an adventure to save the world from a Sauron who won. Once you've reached the end and beaten him it's lost any differentiation from other fantasy worlds. If you want dark fantasy where evil rules, I'd look at the Midnight d20 setting, there may still be a conversion for it though "againsttheshadow.org" seems to be down now. That's where the conversion used to be.
Necessary Evil is good if you like the superhero genre. It has a full system for creating superhero powers and the plot point campaign is decent. The system is good for low to mid powered superheros. It doesn't do the extreme high end of power as well as some other systems.
If you're looking for fantasy settings built specifically for Savage Worlds, Shaintar has gotten pretty good reviews (I haven't picked it up yet). I also like Rippers (Victorian fantasy) and Savage Worlds of Solomon Kane (age of exploration fantasy). Solomon Kane in particular is a very nice book, beautiful art and it's the full SW system for that world. It also has a good skill based magic system. My only complaint is the campaign is more of a railroad than I like - and that's easy to change. Rune Punk is a good (and dark) steam punk setting. There are actually a lot of good settings for SW, but I tend to pick and choose pieces from several to use in my own alternate earth.
Hope that helps!-
I laugh at myself first, before anyone else can.
-- Paraphrased from Elsa Maxwell
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The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you.
-- Paul Graham in Keep Your Identity Small
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2008-08-18, 09:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Savage Worlds
Went back and read this and figured it might be helpful to follow up...
In many ways I agree with your first impression. Reading through SWEX is a) very dry and b) gives the impression of an unfinished framework or rules. It is an unfinished framework so I suppose that makes sense. SWEX is just a generic base to build a game on. It's very like reading through the 3.5 SRD without ever seeing a rule book.
Some specifics:
- initiative is a subsystem, can't disagree. I do think the cards make it easier for everyone (not just the GM) to track who is up.
- Multiple action penalties are fairly tough, they should be. The system is built around one action per character per turn. That's part of what helps keep the game moving so quickly.
- It's fairly easy to set things up to gain bonuses, particularly in combat. Penalties on the other hand seldom go over a -2. Much of this is just learning the system.
- Not sure what you meant by "promoting min/maxing" that's not an issue I ever ran into. It's also a fairly difficult proposition - I found the system very balanced.
- SW delivers cinematic combat through Tricks and Tests of Will. Skills are kept to those likely to see use in game with 'common knowledge' replacing those you don't use as often. Not sure the skill system was detailed enough for me to call it simulationist. :)
I've heard tale told of the game being very quick in play, but I don't know how that's possible, since the default system of tactical movement was gridless and miniatures based. That means any time you want to move in combat you're pulling out a ruler to see how far you go.
Now, I've talked to maybe a half dozen people who swear by the system, and won't run any system but Savage Worlds, so maybe I just haven't seen how elegant it is in play, but when I put down the book I said to myself, "When I designed my first RPG system for the Redwall book series at the age of eleven, I made a better system than this."
SW does approach things differently than many games...the basic rules are very 'metagamey' with the expectation you'll add trappings (fluff if you prefer) to match your setting and background*. To make it even more counterintuitive to us long time D&D players, attributes and skills matter far less than edges. Some times I think you could throw both out and create characters solely with edges.
It was addressing a different subject, butTuesday said it well on the PEG forums:Originally Posted by TuesdayLast edited by Raum; 2008-08-18 at 09:22 PM.
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I laugh at myself first, before anyone else can.
-- Paraphrased from Elsa Maxwell
-
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you.
-- Paul Graham in Keep Your Identity Small