Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

[Tectonic Robot]

Welp. I just started playing this card game thing. I'm awful at it! :D

Orzhov, man. They're so... ghost-mobster. @_@

[Lord Seth]

I wonder how much Modern will actually catch on as an FNM format. The issue I see is twofold. First, stores will want to pick what's popular, and Standard and Draft seem more popular than Modern. Second, Modern is a lot less newbie friendly than either of those two, and FNM is supposed to be newbie friendly.

I guess it can't hurt Modern, but I do wonder how many stores will actually be adopting it as their FNM format...

[Squark]

I wonder how much Modern will actually catch on as an FNM format. The issue I see is twofold. First, stores will want to pick what's popular, and Standard and Draft seem more popular than Modern. Second, Modern is a lot less newbie friendly than either of those two, and FNM is supposed to be newbie friendly.

I guess it can't hurt Modern, but I do wonder how many stores will actually be adopting it as their FNM format...

I could see it being a monthly thing, run after the normal standard event (If memory serves, if you can justify the numbers, there's nothing that says you can't schedule two FNMs in one night, right?)

[Giegue]

I know that if my store runs FNM modern format I'll be one of the first to try it out. Unlike standard, I don't have to work on a budget for modern. I can make a more expensive deck in modern because it will never rotate and therefore I can collect the peices of the deck over time. It may take me several months to obtain a modern worthy manabase, but hey, that manabase will never rotate! So modern essentially allows me to throw away most budget concerns because I can just assemble all those expensive cards peice by peice over time without worrying about how long I'll be able to play that deck.

Speaking of modern, I've been playtesting mono black control. I own a LOT of cards already for this deck, so assembling it should only take about a month.(which is just in time for modern to become FNM legal.)

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Lands:
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Tectonic Edge
1x Ghost Quarter
20x Swamp

Creatures:
4x Phyrexian Obliterator
4x Korlash, Heir to blackblade
2x Shriekmaw

Enchantments:
4x Phyrexian Arena

Sorceries/Instants:
4x Damnation
3x Duress
3x Despise
2x Consume the Meek
2x Tendrils of Corruption
3x Geth's Verdict
2x Doom Blade
1x Go for the Throat

Artifacts:
2x Ratchet Bomb

Sideboard:
2x Consume the Meek
4x Deathmark
1x Duress
1x Despise
3x Surgical Extraction
2x Ratchet Bomb
2x Nihil Spellbomb

I know, I know, it needs more thoughtseize. I am leaving it out of the initial list because it will take me quite some time to assemble a playset and I want to be able to use the deck before then. However, I WILL be getting a playset eventually over time. As I said, the deck will NEVER rotate, so I have a lot of time to acquire a thoughtseize playset for this deck. Anyway...if any of you have any tips or ideas for this deck other then "needs 4x thoughtseize"(Which I will be working on) I'd love to here them....

I've already started playtesting this slowly but surely. Crushed elves and pure/non-black Zoo. Did decent enough against Jund and B/W/R/G though this match was much more difficult. Have not tested against control or combo yet yet but I will be soon enough. Creature-based decks tend to fold to this deck. Jund was more difficult because of all it's disruption but it was not what I would call a bad match. It was mostly about even, and was very swingly and luck-based. Killing Golyf early was key to that victory and if I had an early Despise it was usually by-by Goylf. Drawing board wipes was also key in that game. Surgical extraction after siding helped a lot, though, basically denying them Goylf completely. However, there where also plenty of matches where I was rushed to death before I was able to draw into the cards I needed....like I said...swingy. I don't know how it fairs against control or combo because as stated early I haven't tested against those yet.

[Lea Plath]

Living end is still a deck and not a bad one actually.

And Infect seems to be infect combo, where you do lots of crazy pumpy stuff to do infect or infect aggro. Both are really cheap.

Any, for my deck, I'm up for testing if anyone else is. My record so far is turn 3 win in solitaire. (Turn 1, land, faithless looting to discard 1 vine, 1 stinkweed imp, turn 2, dredge and managed to put 2 more vines in grave, then cast 2x deathrite shaman to swing for 12. Turn 3, swing in for more damage, another 12. Could have also faithlessed for more dredge etc)

[Fable Wright]

I know, I know, it needs more thoughtseize. I am leaving it out of the initial list because it will take me quite some time to assemble a playset and I want to be able to use the deck before then. However, I WILL be getting a playset eventually over time. As I said, the deck will NEVER rotate, so I have a lot of time to acquire a thoughtseize playset for this deck. Anyway...if any of you have any tips or ideas for this deck other then "needs 4x thoughtseize"(Which I will be working on) I'd love to here them....

I've already started playtesting this slowly but surely. Crushed elves and pure/non-black Zoo. Did decent enough against Jund and B/W/R/G though this match was much more difficult. Have not tested against control or combo yet yet but I will be soon enough. Creature-based decks tend to fold to this deck. Jund was more difficult because of all it's disruption but it was not what I would call a bad match. It was mostly about even, and was very swingly and luck-based. Killing Golyf early was key to that victory and if I had an early Despise it was usually by-by Goylf. Drawing board wipes was also key in that game. Surgical extraction after siding helped a lot, though, basically denying them Goylf completely. However, there where also plenty of matches where I was rushed to death before I was able to draw into the cards I needed....like I said...swingy. I don't know how it fairs against control or combo because as stated early I haven't tested against those yet.

You don't actually need Thoughseize. You can actually justify running Inquisition of Kozilek in its place, because the life loss can actually be a drawback and Inquisition hits most of the targets anyways.

Your biggest problem against control would be landing a threat. You basically have 8 cards, and you need to get one of them to stick long enough to actually kill your opponent. That's going to be difficult. You also need to be able to somehow answer Karn the moment he hits the field (Urzatron is a combo deck you need to worry about, and Karn seems really good against you). Corrupt might be an option to take him out, but if Karn comes out early enough...

Bloodghasts, in the main or sideboard, may actually be pretty good, just because they can dodge counters and swing at Karn in potentially multiples. If you do, Lashwrithe may be a great card to add in as a wincon; stick it on a Bloodghast, and it becomes a threat big enough to survive a Mutilate (if you choose to run them). Still, I definitely forsee Karn being something you need to have an answer for, as it probably is going to kill you, due to your low number of threats. Urzatron is a great time to board in Pithing Needle- shut down Eye of Ugin or Karn, depending on which one comes down first.

Also, don't run Surgical Extraction. Eggs is a really bad matchup for you, and Surgical/Nihil Spellbomb are the only tools you have for it. Extirpate shuts them down cold (as in, concede the game cold) if you fire it off at the same time, and unlike Surgical Extraction, they can't use Conjurer's Bauble to save themselves. [/2cents]

[Giegue]

Yeah. I already have 3x Bloodghast going unused, and I have 4x lashwrithe in my old mono black infect deck from standard which is sitting unused as well due to being rotated out. The only question is what should I cut to add them? Also, if I am going to smash apart my mono black infect deck to make this better, I will have black sun's zenith available to me as well, though I'm not sure if it would be better or worse then consume the meek.

Also, if inquisition really is a good replacement for thoughtseize then I will definitely use that. Saves me a lot of time and money. It hits goylf, dark confidant and most relevant cards in the aggro match, but against control it seems like it would be dead weight because control's most dangerous cards tend to be on the higher-end mana wise.....of course siding in Duress helps that a bit....but I'm not sure... I am also not sure how many inqusitions I should run over duress and/or despise?

Any opinions on all this?

[Litewarior]

Living end is a thing I suppose. It's just not a very good thing. There's too much consistent grave hate that shuts it down.

Actually, it depends. If Relic or Tormod's is what you encounter a lot, then yes it's not good. But if the GY hate you see a lot is Grafdigger's Cage, then it's great, since Cage does nothing vs Living End.

[qwertyu63]

Any opinions here?

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2 Delver of Secrets
4 Phantasmal Bear
2 Phantasmal Dragon
3 Lord of the Unreal
2 AEther Adept
1 Sphinx of Uthuun

2 Unsummon
2 Vapor Snag
2 Preordain
4 Mana Leak
4 Cancel
2 Frost Breath
1 Foresee
2 Jace's Ingenuity

2 Ice Cage
1 Mind Control

1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Kraken's Eye
1 Jace Beleren
21 Island

[Lea Plath]

Any opinions here?

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2 Delver of Secrets
4 Phantasmal Bear
2 Phantasmal Dragon
3 Lord of the Unreal
2 AEther Adept
1 Sphinx of Uthuun

2 Unsummon
2 Vapor Snag
2 Preordain
4 Mana Leak
4 Cancel
2 Frost Breath
1 Foresee
2 Jace's Ingenuity

2 Ice Cage
1 Mind Control

1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Kraken's Eye
1 Jace Beleren
21 Island

Kraken's Eye is just bad. Vapour Snag is better than unsummon. Mana Leak removes the need for cancel.

[Sith_Happens]

Anyway...if any of you have any tips or ideas for this deck other then "needs 4x thoughtseize"(Which I will be working on) I'd love to here them....

Needs more Liliana of the Veil.

Any opinions here?

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2 Delver of Secrets
4 Phantasmal Bear
2 Phantasmal Dragon
3 Lord of the Unreal
2 AEther Adept
1 Sphinx of Uthuun

2 Unsummon
2 Vapor Snag
2 Preordain
4 Mana Leak
4 Cancel
2 Frost Breath
1 Foresee
2 Jace's Ingenuity

2 Ice Cage
1 Mind Control

1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Kraken's Eye
1 Jace Beleren
21 Island

I don't think that's enough Instants and Sorceries to make Delver worth it, especially when only two of them are cantrips or cheap deck rearrangement.

[Lord Seth]

Kraken's Eye is just bad. Vapour Snag is better than unsummon. Mana Leak removes the need for cancel.

Heck, even if not for Mana Leak, Cancel is a bad card. Outside of Block formats, there is currently no reason (other than possibly availability) to run Cancel in a deck that isn't at its maximum number of Dissipates.

[Togath]

Just finished a friday night magic two-headed giant draft tournament.
managed to get 3rd place out of four teams.
I'm thinking of trying it again someday, if only to see if I could do a bit better by adjusting the amount of basic lands i use in it(while me and my teammate were building our decks we planned to have him focus on defense, and me on attacking...but I ended up only drawing enough basic lands in 1 out of 3 of the matches, sticking to 1-2 mana buffs/debuffs in the other two matches due to a lack of mana for me.
So in a 40 card minimum two-headed giant draft, how much of the deck should be lands?, And is tri mana decks for both of us a decent strategy? Also, is packrat still a good card in two-headed giant drafts?, I did manage to get one in my deck, but it seemed like it wasn’t as strong in two-headed giant as it is in a 1 vs 1 tournament.
edit: just now remembered to ask this; are non-set foil cards usable in standard if their normal version is usable in standard?(I managed to get a foil lingering spirits with a comet instead of a normal set symbol)

[Lea Plath]

Just finished a friday night magic two-headed giant draft tournament.
managed to get 3rd place out of four teams.
I'm thinking of trying it again someday, if only to see if I could do a bit better by adjusting the amount of basic lands i use in it(while me and my teammate were building our decks we planned to have him focus on defense, and me on attacking...but I ended up only drawing enough basic lands in 1 out of 3 of the matches, sticking to 1-2 mana buffs/debuffs in the other two matches due to a lack of mana for me.
So in a 40 card minimum two-headed giant draft, how much of the deck should be lands?, And is tri mana decks for both of us a decent strategy? Also, is packrat still a good card in two-headed giant drafts?, I did manage to get one in my deck, but it seemed like it wasn’t as strong in two-headed giant as it is in a 1 vs 1 tournament.
edit: just now remembered to ask this; are non-set foil cards usable in standard if their normal version is usable in standard?(I managed to get a foil lingering spirits with a comet instead of a normal set symbol)

In draft, 2-3 colours is possible. Even 4. Depending on what you get.

When I last drafted, I went Slessy. My partner went Azorious. We got wiped in the first game so we changed stuff up. I went Bant (GWU) because I had the ramp and fixing to make it worth while and so we could cast supreme verdict and stuff and my partner put together a RB deck

And for draft. 17 lands. 23 other cards is the accepted best mix.

[Togath]

Ah, I think the lands may hvae been part of my problem this time...next time I'll aim for 23 nonlands(I think I used about 35-40 this time around, with about 15-18 lands, which was probably why I had trouble drawing them). Me and my teammate were also sharing a colour(he went R/W/U while I went with a Jund one) which probably also contributed a little bit.

[Lea Plath]

Ah, I think the lands may hvae been part of my problem this time...next time I'll aim for 23 nonlands(I think I used about 35-40 this time around, with about 15-18 lands, which was probably why I had trouble drawing them). Me and my teammate were also sharing a colour(he went R/W/U while I went with a Jund one) which probably also contributed a little bit.

It isn't always a massive thing. The colors may overlap but you might be able to do stuff better. For example, a big mana white spell like Angel of Serenity might be better in GW, especially if the GW deck has ramp. That way you can get it a bit faster or without so much luck. That then leaves you able to cast it and your partner can have a counter spell ready in case they have one.

[Togath]

Ah, good point about that bit, I hadn't thought of that, and we did have some potent big cards(spawn of Rix Maadi[x2], carnival hellsteed, Niv-Mizzet and utrava hellkite[x2] were the main big creatures we had).
also, a non-gameplay thing;
have they announced which colour cominations the final five guilds will be in gatecrash and dragon's maze?
from guesswork, and looking at the little poster thingies for each I was thinking;
Boros: R/W
Dimir: B/U
Gruul: ?/?(probably G/R, if they're planning to have each guild be a different colour)
Orzhov: B/W
Simic: G/U

[Androgeus]

have they announced which colour cominations the final five guilds will be in gatecrash and dragon's maze?
from guesswork, and looking at the little poster thingies for each I was thinking;

The guilds are going to be the exact same colours they where when they appeared in Ravnica Block (Ravnica:City of Guilds, Guildpact & Dissension). So Gruul will be G/R. (Your other guesses are also correct)
Dragon Maze is going to have all 10 guilds in it.

edit:Some of Gatecrash has been leaked

[Mystic Muse]

Gatecrash spoiler

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*Looks at R/G Planeswalker.*

....

REALLY?! I mean, I know it takes 4 turns to get to that point, but really?

[Thanatos 51-50]

So, are there any awesome decklists out thre whcih make copius use of Guttersnipe and/or Lobber Crew? Because both of those cards are amazing.
If Boros is at all burn heavy (which it should be, because Boros), I can quite easily see those two finding their way into top-tier decklists to support the playstyle.
I'm not the only one really hoping Lightning Helix is reprinted, am I?

[Giegue]

About Gatecrash...

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Interesting, very interesting. Most of those cards look more like EDH/Commander cards then anything else. I was suprised at that take on the Gruul guild leader. I thought that the leader for R/G would be far more aggressively coasted, since R/G is usually a very aggressive color combo. He's unfit for the Gruul aggro deck that will be sure to pop up, however he may have a place in ramp. Casual he will be awesome, and he will probably see some commander action, too. The W/R leader also seems a tad expensive for a guild as aggressive as Boros. Again, she probably is too pricy mana-wise for the standard boros aggro that will be sure to pop up, but like the Gruul leader will be a casual star and good commander bate.

That blue spell, on the other hand, I can't see why anybody would want to play it, even in commander or casual. It's just bad. A long time ago, there was a 2 mana red spell that said "take an extra turn after this one, at the end of that turn, you lose the game" or something like that. That card is essentially the same spell, but for a boatload of mana and instead of taking an extra turn you just draw your entire deck. Simply put unless your opponent was going to die VERY soon, that card WILL cost you the game when you play it, and if your opponent was going to die VERY soon to began with it's safer to just kill them the normal way. It is the ultimate "win more" card since you only want to play it when you can kill your opponent in one-two turns and if your opponent was going to die in 1-2 turns why not just kill them the normal way instead of play that and possibly lose the game if your opponent draws a way to save themselves?

The only way I think this will see play is if some crazy Johny finds a way to abuse it, such as by using it to assemble all the pieces of some infinite combo and kill your opponent even if they are not 1-2 turns away from death...or something. I know not to underestimate the Johnies and I am almost positive one of them will find a way to make this card go from the ultimate suicidal win more card to the centerpiece of a broken deck. It's practically calling out for this.

As for Hellkite Tyrant, he is awesome and will almost definitely see play in my Nicol Bolas all-dragon commander deck. If somebody is playing Acrum Daggson or some other heavy artifact deck he's basically GG, and even if he isn't the ability to just snatch artifacts would be great for my EDH deck as one of it's main points is that it is very, very steal-y. Heck, for all we know he could end up being banned in commander simply because any artifact-based deck at the table means he just needs to attack once to end the game.

Also, broken chase mythic plansewalker is broken. This is nothing new, Plasewalkers are some of the most overpowerd cards to be printed since the power 9. I think the lot of them are a mistake, honestly, and many of them are ALMOST yugioh-level broken. Some of them are good, but the vast bulk just are OP and exist only to troll all us members of the 99%.

Also, I would still like ideas for my rough draft Modern deck, especially what to cut for Bloodghast and Lashwrite. fixing the sideboard will be easy enough, just add extirpates and pithing needles. Maindeck I need to know what to cut for bloodghast and lashwrithe. I will have two free slots no matter what, though, since 3x Duress and 3x Despite will become 4x Inquisition.

Also, as for guttersnipe, depends. I've seen some budget attempts at Izzet control that use him. I've also seen an interesting deck that had a bunch of cantrips alongside Guttersnipe. I forget where I found that list, but it was......interesting, to say the least.

[Nerocite]

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Any card with "You win the game" is alright by me.

[memnarch]

About Gatecrash...

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...

That blue spell, on the other hand, I can't see why anybody would want to play it, even in commander or casual. It's just bad. A long time ago, there was a 2 mana red spell that said "take an extra turn after this one, at the end of that turn, you lose the game" or something like that. That card is essentually the same spell, but for a boatload of mana and instead of taking an extra turn you just draw your entire deck. Simply put unless your opponent was going to die VERY soon, that card WILL cost you the game when you play it, and if your opponent was going to die VERY soon to began with it's safer to just kill them the normal way. It is the ultimate "win more" card since you only want to play that when you can kill your opponent in one-two turns and if your opponent was going to die in 1-2 turns why not just kill them the normal way instead of play that and possibly lose the game if your opponent draws a way to save themselves?

The only way I think this will see play is if some crarzy awesome Johny finds a way to abuse it, such as by using it to assemble all the pieces of some infinite combo and kill your opponent even if they are not 1-2 turns away from death...or something. I know not to underestimate the Johnies because I am almost positive one of them will find a way to make this card go from the ultimate suicidal win more piece of crap to the centerpiece of a broken deck.
...

...

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Pairing with Omniscience would allow you to basically make your deck the battlefield .

Tamiyo Emblem or Reliquary Tower would keep you from losing the cards in your hand. Gravepurge would allow you to restock your deck with dead creatures. Psychic Spiral costs more, but makes your whole graveyard your new deck.

Spelltwine would allow for early casting if you get it to your graveyard. New Jace would take awhile to get there, but could play it for free from your deck. Counterlashing a sorcery they have or a cheap one of yours would also "lessen" the casting cost.


That's all I've got from searching for combos in Standard. Certainly not a card that's going to see much use there I think. Modern would likely be more friendly to it, assuming people actually want to play the card. Could try pairing it up with Omen Machine for cheaper playing AND getting out of the card draw -> thing two turns later.

[Thanatos 51-50]

RE: Gatecrash:

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I see that blue card interacting well with Elixir of Immortality towards the endgame. I'm quite wary of the spell's cost, though. I can maybe see it working in a simic manaramp deck, but it's not something I, personally, would ever run.

[Sith_Happens]

Gatecrash:

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Is there some reason they gave Boros and Gruul 6 CMC guild leaders after the other aggro guilds all got 4 CMC's?

On a more positive note: That planeswalker, I want it.

[Androgeus]

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Pairing with Omniscience would allow you to basically make your deck the battlefield .

Tamiyo Emblem or Reliquary Tower would keep you from losing the cards in your hand. Gravepurge would allow you to restock your deck with dead creatures. Psychic Spiral costs more, but makes your whole graveyard your new deck.

Spelltwine would allow for early casting if you get it to your graveyard. New Jace would take awhile to get there, but could play it for free from your deck. Counterlashing a sorcery they have or a cheap one of yours would also "lessen" the casting cost.


That's all I've got from searching for combos in Standard. Certainly not a card that's going to see much use there I think. Modern would likely be more friendly to it, assuming people actually want to play the card. Could try pairing it up with Omen Machine for cheaper playing AND getting out of the card draw -> thing two turns later.

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You missed Laboratory maniac, if you can draw two more cards it's a win

[Lea Plath]

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OK. Lets go through the good stuff.

I see the WR Angel being used in both commander and standard. In standard, she could have a place in more aggressive Naya midrange decks. Swing in with her, Wurm, etc, then you can use the untap to have some defense or swing for win. With a wurm on the table that is 26 damage, of which 20 of that has trample and 6 of it has flying. She is also gonna be used in Kaliaa I bet. Cheat her into play and every turn cheat 2 cards into play.

RG leader, well...he isn't very well costed for his base body like I feel RG should be but...his ability...just wow. I can see an ramp loam deck developing with him possibly. Possible 4C Reanimator card too. His ability to fix or turn excess lands into burn is amazing. Especially with Deathrite Shaman, Mulch, Grisly Salvage and stuff.

Domri is interesting to say the least. I was thinking Naya was a little light on spot removal, given all they have is Searing Spear, Selesyna Charm and Brimstone Volley and those are quite situational. This could be really good. Make your angel fight their thragtusk or sumin. The +1 is nice as well. A semi psudo confidant but only for creatures and...er...ok. Not very Confidantish at all but you get what I mean. And his -7 will be fun for EDH but I don't think it will happen in standard.

Enter the Infinite could be good in commander in a deck with UB in. Necropotence out and you don't have to worry about card draw. Any other card and you basically have answers to everything.

However, I'm most interested in it in Omnitell. Any form of draw effect will make you lose but you can cast Emrekul and Griselbrand, and maybe include something to give them haste, swinging for win in one turn. Could open up a new version of show and tell completely.

The Hellkite is nice, but not amazing. Alt win cons always fun. Nice flying bodies are good. Steal effects are nice for you. But EDH only, unless there is gonna be a combo deck.

For EDH fun. Hellkite, Ramp and Lattice. Get 20 lands out and lattice and you win.

[Ninjaman]

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For EDH fun. Hellkite, Ramp and Lattice. Get 20 lands out and lattice and you win.

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You don't even need 20 lands out as you will steal your opponents' as they are artifacts because of lattice.

[Lea Plath]

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You don't even need 20 lands out as you will steal your opponents' as they are artifacts because of lattice.

If I have Lattice out, I am gonna be overloading Vandalblast as soon as possible :P It might be good game at that point, but when the game is in ruins, then you have my permission to die :3

[Lady Serpentine]

So. Having played a couple of games using borrowed cards, I've decided to get into this, and picked up a couple of booster packs, meaning I now have half a deck, which is composed of the following cards:

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Creatures:

1 Rotcrown Ghoul
1 Angelic Wall
2 Mist Ravens
1 Hanweir Lancer
2 Heirs of Stromkirk
1 Nearheath Pilgrim
1 Kessig Malcontents
1 Avacyn, Angel of Hope
1 Geist Trappers
1 Soulcage Fiend
1 Spectral Gateguards
1 Emancipation Angel
1 Corpse Traders
1 Tandem Lookout
1 Archwing Dragon
1 Human (1/1 Creature)

Instants:

1 Natural End
1 Cloudshift
1 Zealous Strike
1 Rush of Blood
1 Peel from Reality

Enchantments:

1 Ghoulflesh
1 Infinite Reflection
1 Spectral Prison
1 Defang

Lands:

1 Island
1 Plains

Sorceries:

1 Lair Delve
1 Amass the Components

Any advice on what I should do with it, other than add lands?