New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Page 1 of 6 123456 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 175
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Darth_Versity's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Luton, UK

    Default Player feels he's being treated unfairly

    So in a recent game my neutral-evil aligned party ended up on the Heroic Plains of Ysgard. Now this was not my fault as they randomly rolled for another plane while on the Astral Plane.

    Now the CE Dread Necromancer player proceeds to piss off a high lvl Paladin npc and challenges him to a duel. I knew his plan in an instant. He wanted to kill the npc in a solo fight to reap the xp. He's done it before.

    The paladin agrees to allow him time to prepare for the duel and so they seperate. He then proceeds to cast Unhallow so as to have an advantage when he unleashed his undead from his bag of holding.

    I then declared that an avatar of Kord appeared, taking offence that someone would dare try to defile his plane and proceeded to squish the offending necromancer.

    Now my player complained that I was picking on him but I simply replied that a good aligned god who would know that killing someone on his plane was not permanant (due to the true ressurection effect) would take a seriously dim view of someone desecrating his landscape and would intervene.

    So my question is simple. Was my punishment to harsh, especially considering that all he lost from it was a day in character?
    Quote Originally Posted by Talya View Post
    A guy going by a forum moniker starting with "Darth" asks what amounts to...

    "Perhaps you feel you're being treated unfairly?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

    Join Date
    Apr 2011

    Default Re: Player feels he's being treated unfairly

    Isn't there a rule among deities about intervening with mortals?
    Quote Originally Posted by SheepinDisguise
    There's no I in team. There is, however, an I in Wizard, Cleric, Druid, StP Erudite, Psionic Artificer, LE Candle of Invocation, Miracle, and Wish. There is no I in Trunamer or Monk though.
    True. However, there is also an I in Samurai.


  3. - Top - End - #3
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    Nov 2011

    Default Re: Player feels he's being treated unfairly

    Nope. When you're on the plane of a god of battle I would avoid defiling it. And an Avatar showing up, which I believe wander around the plane, is perfectly acceptable.
    Last edited by Zeborazor; 2011-12-06 at 04:59 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #4

    Default Re: Player feels he's being treated unfairly

    The player got a True Rez out of the deal and they're still crying unfairness? It was a touch heavy handed of you, but it's not like the player lost anything except for a shot at free XP.

    P.S: If the fight is significantly easier than normal - say, if the opponent gives the PC time to buff up without laying on a significant buff suite themselves - the encounter should give at most half XP. DMG, P. 39 specifically mentions what happens when an encounter is situationally more or less difficult than raw CR would indicate.

    P.P.S: If the character is creating undead out of opponents he slays on Ysgard, that's going to piss off some very powerful people. A deux ex machina smackdown is precisely the sort of warning he should get. First offense is a warning, and he gets to be raised by the plane. After that, someone escorts him to the Outlands and squishes him. Or just deposits him in one of the lower planes directly.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Story Time's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2011

    Default Re: Player Feels He's Being Treated Unfairly

    What the explanation of the original post tells me, or us, is that the Player was using a trick that they thought would work. Then the Player chose to complain when the trick didn't work. Assuming all of the information appropriate to determine the decision has been revealed I don't really think it's unfair. Unfair would be the Player's character being slain, annihilated, and prevented from reincarnating in any way.

    However, I do think some...sympathy and understanding being shown toward that Player is appropriate. Perhaps they are upset that they were thoughtless enough to do something so foolish on such a plane of existence. So...aside the fairness of the situation for the character, it does seem that the Player requires some emotional consolation. This should not take the form of something that would benefit the character.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

    Join Date
    Sep 2011

    Default Re: Player feels he's being treated unfairly

    If I were the DM, I would ask the player at least three times what he's trying to do and if he thinks it is a good idea. If after being asked three times, he still thinks it is a good idea and goes through with it, I would have had Kord(or an aspect) destroy him for desecrating the plane.

    Your player tried to do something stupid that he ought not have been able to get away with and you didn't let him do it. Nothing unfair about that.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Banned
     
    Rubik's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Player feels he's being treated unfairly

    Quote Originally Posted by skycycle blues View Post
    If I were the DM, I would ask the player at least three times what he's trying to do and if he thinks it is a good idea. If after being asked three times, he still thinks it is a good idea and goes through with it, I would have had Kord(or an aspect) destroy him for desecrating the plane.

    Your player tried to do something stupid that he ought not have been able to get away with and you didn't let him do it. Nothing unfair about that.
    In this case he was in Ysgard, so he comes back the next day.

    I hope his party got to him so his corpse isn't looted.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Titan in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    UTC -6

    Default Re: Player feels he's being treated unfairly

    If an evil jerk takes a dump on your lawn and makes zombies out of the buried remains of your dearly departed pets from years past, wouldn't you be ticked off?

    Also, Unhallow and undead creation spells may literally not work on good-aligned planes. Any Good deity worth worship would have a home plane that impedes [Evil] magic, and his home is likely strongly good-aligned. Furthermore, Unhallow has a 24-hour casting time. No Paladin is going to let a necromancer prepare by spending a day defiling a good-aligned plane.

    Now, a better way of resolving it might have been the Paladin spending the day in prayer. Know what happens when a holy warrior prays to his god (of war!) for the power to defeat someone who is desecrating the god's very home? Either Solars start showing up or the holy warrior is granted a similar level of unbelievable power. You do not get away with this kind of thing.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Somewhere Warm

    Default Re: Player feels he's being treated unfairly

    Does Kord have some kind of vendetta with the Undead?

    Because if he allowed the evil characters to enter, why are undead any worse?
    On a quest to marry Asmodeus, lord of the Nine Hells, or die trying.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Howler Dagger's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    R'lyeh
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Player feels he's being treated unfairly

    I think he has the vendetta with people defiling his plane. Seriously, you would think that he would think that he was being treaty too kindly, with armies of solars not appearing and or the paladin guy killing him on the spot.
    Illud quod aeternitatem iacere potest non mortuus est, ac dis peregrinis etiam mors moriatur.

    D&D 3.5≠Pathfinder

    Typhon by Kaptainkrutch. Thanks to TylerB7 for the latin

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Somewhere Warm

    Default Re: Player feels he's being treated unfairly

    Wait- Ys-whatever is that Valhalla-ish plane right?

    Chaotic Good? Everyone fights and comes back to life the next day?

    Oh. Then the necro can't complain. At least Kord didn't banish him before he could pop back to life.
    On a quest to marry Asmodeus, lord of the Nine Hells, or die trying.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Titan in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    UTC -6

    Default Re: Player feels he's being treated unfairly

    Quote Originally Posted by Zale View Post
    Does Kord have some kind of vendetta with the Undead?

    Because if he allowed the evil characters to enter, why are undead any worse?
    You're on Ysgard, a plane favored by some good gods. You cast Unhallow. This is essentially casting "cover their front lawn with crap." Even though Kord is CN, he probably doesn't take well to having some random jerk pop up and desecrate his front lawn.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Alabenson's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Player feels he's being treated unfairly

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Knight View Post
    You're on Ysgard, a plane favored by some good gods. You cast Unhallow. This is essentially casting "cover their front lawn with crap." Even though Kord is CN, he probably doesn't take well to having some random jerk pop up and desecrate his front lawn.
    Minor point of order; Kord is CG, not CN.
    Which means he'd be even more irritated that someone was casting unhallow in his backyard. Especially since the necromancer was doing it to give himself an undue advantage during a duel (which runs directly counter to Kord's dogma as I understand it).
    If brute force isn't working, that just means you're not using enough of it.

    When in doubt, set something on fire. If not in doubt, set something on fire anyway.

    My Homebrew

    Spoiler: PbP Characters
    Show

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Somewhere Warm

    Default Re: Player feels he's being treated unfairly

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Knight View Post
    You're on Ysgard, a plane favored by some good gods. You cast Unhallow. This is essentially casting "cover their front lawn with crap." Even though Kord is CN, he probably doesn't take well to having some random jerk pop up and desecrate his front lawn.
    Why did Kord wait until the Necro pulled undead out of his bag of holding, then?

    Perhaps a straw-that-broke-the-camel's-back thing?

    At least he didn't summon evil outsiders...
    On a quest to marry Asmodeus, lord of the Nine Hells, or die trying.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    I wish I knew...
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Player feels he's being treated unfairly

    Yea, it's not the challenge that he had a problem with. Considering the locale, that's par for course and to be expected.

    It's the casting of Unhallow which pisses him off. Also, cheating in a one-on-one duel (by bringing in allies) would rather piss him off.

    You agreed to a one-on-one duel. Then you bring in an ally. Duel null and void, proceed to curb-stomp.

    He should feel lucky that he was allowed to True Res. He could've just gotten dropped off in Limbo.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Underlord View Post
    All hail great Shneekeythulhu! Ia Ia Shneeky fthagn
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
    Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
    Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
    Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
    Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
    Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us

    My homebrew world in progress: Falcora

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2011

    Default Re: Player feels he's being treated unfairly

    It depends.

    Did you already have a plan in motion to stop this fight from happening, or did you roll for it? You said you knew he did it before, was this motivation to make sure it didn't happen again?

    Fair is subjective. Sure the DM can do what they like, but if the player was directed into believing that he was going to get to fight this paladin, got his spells ready, and then its taken away, you in a way robbed him of his way of RPing.

    Now if he was just cheating the system, that's a bit different.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Titan in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    UTC -6

    Default Re: Player feels he's being treated unfairly

    Quote Originally Posted by Alabenson View Post
    Minor point of order; Kord is CG, not CN.
    This is why Know (Religion) is a skill. I can barely keep track of any deities that aren't within a step of LG, honestly...

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    I wish I knew...
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Player feels he's being treated unfairly

    Quote Originally Posted by killem2 View Post
    It depends.

    Did you already have a plan in motion to stop this fight from happening, or did you roll for it? You said you knew he did it before, was this motivation to make sure it didn't happen again?

    Fair is subjective. Sure the DM can do what they like, but if the player was directed into believing that he was going to get to fight this paladin, got his spells ready, and then its taken away, you in a way robbed him of his way of RPing.

    Now if he was just cheating the system, that's a bit different.
    If he had just dueled the Paladin, he would've probably gotten away with it. But he cheated... that's the problem. Between the Unhallow and the 'allies appearing out of nowhere'... he violated the terms of the duel. On a plane dedicated to dueling. What the **** do you think is GOING to happen when you do that?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Underlord View Post
    All hail great Shneekeythulhu! Ia Ia Shneeky fthagn
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
    Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
    Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
    Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
    Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
    Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us

    My homebrew world in progress: Falcora

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Titan in the Playground
     
    MesiDoomstalker's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Penthouse Suite
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Player feels he's being treated unfairly

    I'd make sure you tell the player, out of character, (or in if you want to use big-booming-god voice) why he got curbstomped by Kord's aspect. Mainly, what others above me have said. He wen't against the doctrine of the resident god AND tried to defile said god's backyard. You don't do that and come out unscathed.
    Awesome Avvy by Sizlord!

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Imp

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Location, Location
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Player feels he's being treated unfairly

    Since it's a Chaotic plane I would say no Chaotic God should have an issue with things being a little different or even chaotic. I would have allowed the unhallow and even had a group of onlookers laugh at the necromancer.

    I would have had the paladin sunder the bag of holding though. Because that isn't a fair fight...bringing in allies.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Howler Dagger's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    R'lyeh
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Player feels he's being treated unfairly

    Quote Originally Posted by Stubbed Tongue View Post
    Since it's a Chaotic Good/Neutral plane I would say every Chaotic Good God should have an issue with defiling a plane of good with evil.
    Fixed it for you.
    Illud quod aeternitatem iacere potest non mortuus est, ac dis peregrinis etiam mors moriatur.

    D&D 3.5≠Pathfinder

    Typhon by Kaptainkrutch. Thanks to TylerB7 for the latin

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Imp

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Location, Location
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Player feels he's being treated unfairly

    Quote Originally Posted by SheepInDisguise View Post
    I tried to fix something that didn't need fixing.

    If Kord's aspect would be so hurt and threatened by a mortal then why let him in at all? Isn't that the very REASON the Plains of Ida exist...to better your skill. You can't get better fighting the same thing all the time.

    If anything the paladin was the one cheated. He lawfully accepted a duel and had it taken from him by an avatar.
    Last edited by Stubbed Tongue; 2011-12-06 at 07:08 PM.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Titan in the Playground
     
    MesiDoomstalker's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Penthouse Suite
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Player feels he's being treated unfairly

    Quote Originally Posted by Stubbed Tongue View Post
    If Kord's aspect would be so hurt and threatened by a mortal than why let him in at all? Isn't that the very REASON the fields exist...to better your skill. you can't get better fighting the same thing all the time.
    Dieties are not all powerful in D&D. They do have limited ability to sense reality. If Kord was too far away from the party's entry point, he wouldn't even know they had entered his domain unless they said his name. I also believe that unless the diety in question is a paladin, they don't have an innate ability to detect alignments either. Its not so much fighting and getting better or being threatened by the player. Its dirty fighting (which is against Kords Dogma) and trying to infuse pure evil energy into a Good-aligned plane.
    Last edited by MesiDoomstalker; 2011-12-06 at 07:06 PM.
    Awesome Avvy by Sizlord!

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Minnesota
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Player feels he's being treated unfairly

    Quote Originally Posted by Stubbed Tongue View Post
    If anything the paladin was the one cheated. He lawfully accepted a duel and had it taken from him by an avatar.
    You seriously think a paladin asked Kord for direct interference?
    Avatar of George the Dragon Slayer, from the upcoming Indivisible!
    My Steam profile
    Warriors and Wuxia, Callos_DeTerran's ToB setting

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Imp

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Location, Location
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Player feels he's being treated unfairly

    Quote Originally Posted by MesiDoomstalker View Post
    Dieties are not all powerful in D&D. They do have limited ability to sense reality. If Kord was too far away from the party's entry point, he wouldn't even know they had entered his domain unless they said his name. I also believe that unless the diety in question is a paladin, they don't have an innate ability to detect alignments either. Its not so much fighting and getting better or being threatened by the player. Its dirty fighting (which is against Kords Dogma) and trying to infuse pure evil energy into a Good-aligned plane.
    Hmmm, I see your point. I think perhaps dispelling the unhallow and letting the fight continue would have made the most sense. Or even letting it go on unchanged. That's what I would have had the avatar do.

    Oh well, everyone DMs different. In either case the player shouldn't feel cheated he lost nothing but some time as others have mentioned.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Imp

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Location, Location
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Player feels he's being treated unfairly

    Quote Originally Posted by Jade Dragon View Post
    You seriously think a paladin asked Kord for direct interference?
    No I don't. That's exactly my point.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Titan in the Playground
     
    MesiDoomstalker's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Penthouse Suite
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Player feels he's being treated unfairly

    Quote Originally Posted by Stubbed Tongue View Post
    No I don't. That's exactly my point.
    So the Paladin cheated because a being of far greater strength intervened without the conesent of either party? How is that cheating?
    Awesome Avvy by Sizlord!

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Djinn_in_Tonic's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Stuck in a bottle.
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Player feels he's being treated unfairly

    Quote Originally Posted by Stubbed Tongue View Post
    If anything the paladin was the one cheated. He lawfully accepted a duel and had it taken from him by an avatar.
    I believe the implication was that the Paladin was indeed ready to fight the duel, and further gave his opponent time to prepare (honorable indeed). If you schedule a duel with someone and aren't able to fight it because they're killed by an un-involved third party (the Avatar had no real favoritism, but rather went against a violation of the plane itself), you're not cheating. You're just unable to fight them, since they're already dead.

    The Avatar stepped in when the Necromancer defiled the plane, and also when he effectively cheated in the duel: time for "preparation" is, in all traditional forms of dueling that we have in our world, a time to practice, hone your skills, and prepare your mind. It is not a time to warp the battlefield to your advantage, nor to prepare it for your X dozen allies who were hitherto unseen. A duel is one vs. one in a fair arena, or it is not really a duel.

    Considering that and the fact that unhallow was cast in the home plane of a Chaotic Good deity, I feel the PC got off rather lightly.
    Last edited by Djinn_in_Tonic; 2011-12-06 at 07:18 PM.

    Ingredients

    2oz Djinn
    5oz Water
    1 Lime Wedge


    Instructions

    Pour Djinn and tonic water into a glass filled with ice cubes. Stir well. Garnish with lime wedge. Serve.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Imp

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Location, Location
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Player feels he's being treated unfairly

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_in_Tonic View Post
    I believe the implication was that the Paladin was indeed ready to fight the duel, and further gave his opponent time to prepare (honorable indeed). If you schedule a duel with someone and aren't able to fight it because they're killed by an un-involved third party (the Avatar had no real favoritism, but rather went against a violation of the plane itself), you're not cheating. You're just unable to fight them, since they're already dead.

    The Avatar stepped in when the Necromancer defiled the plane, and also when he effectively cheated in the duel: time for "preparation" is, in all traditional forms of dueling that we have in our world, a time to practice, hone your skills, and prepare your mind. It is not a time to warp the battlefield to your advantage, nor to prepare it for your X dozen allies who were hitherto unseen. A duel is one vs. one in a fair arena, or it is not really a duel.

    Considering that and the fact that unhallow was cast in the home plane of a Chaotic Good deity, I feel the PC got off rather lightly.
    Yes this poster summed it up nicely for me.

    I wrote that the paladin WAS cheated. Not that the paladin himself HAD cheated. I have no idea what is your native tongue so of course I'm not trying to offend. Just clarifying.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Djinn_in_Tonic's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Stuck in a bottle.
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Player feels he's being treated unfairly

    Quote Originally Posted by Stubbed Tongue View Post
    I wrote that the paladin WAS cheated. Not that the paladin himself HAD cheated. I have no idea what is your native tongue so of course I'm not trying to offend. Just clarifying.
    Eh. Easy mistake to make.

    If anything the paladin was the one cheated. He lawfully accepted a duel and had it taken from him by an avatar.

    If anything the paladin was the one *who* cheated. He lawfully accepted a duel and had it taken from him by an avatar.


    It's extremely easy to insert that "who" in there automatically. I did so at first.

    If anything the paladin was the one who was cheated would have made your meaning far more apparent, but that's neither here nor there.
    Last edited by Djinn_in_Tonic; 2011-12-06 at 07:23 PM.

    Ingredients

    2oz Djinn
    5oz Water
    1 Lime Wedge


    Instructions

    Pour Djinn and tonic water into a glass filled with ice cubes. Stir well. Garnish with lime wedge. Serve.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •