OOTS #1163 - The Discussion Thread

[woweedd]

Would the writings of Terry Pratchett be of at least equal quality to say, the majority of Shakespeare's plays, Homer's epics, Dante's Divine Comedy, or Tolkien's Legendarium? Also, feel free to add other works to this list of Greats. What I suppose I'm getting at, is Pratchett a member of the greatest writers of all time (or at least scince 5000 B.C.E)?

Probably not. But i’d he’s probably one of the best British authors in the last 100 years.

[mjasghar]

Pratchett was writing at a different time in a market that was overloaded with pulp fantasy novels and films
He also suffered from an era of arty novels - so we get elitist reviewers who rave about people who only ever publish one novel which is about their guilt over self-abuse as a middle class teenager. And they hate that genre fiction then sells so much more
Pratchett to me is on a level with h g Wells
Read jingo - and then realise he wrote it as a response to desert shield and it ended up published during desert storm, and still resonates today
I would also add that Shakespeare at the time wasn’t high art - that’s why theres so much slapstick in some of the plays. It’s what people have seen in Shakespeare and his revival at the same time that theatre became respectable that we now see him as so great
As with so many great writers the reviewers only praise them when they are dead and focus on arty writers whilst they are still alive.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Would the writings of Terry Pratchett be of at least equal quality to say, the majority of Shakespeare's plays, Homer's epics, Dante's Divine Comedy, or Tolkien's Legendarium? Also, feel free to add other works to this list of Greats. What I suppose I'm getting at, is Pratchett a member of the greatest writers of all time (or at least scince 5000 B.C.E)?

I think he is easily funnier than Shakespeare's comedies, yes. And I'd put him at about the same level of satire as Dante, except likely to date a little slower (less dependence on actual named real life characters, and more making fun of human archetypes). But that's the thing about humour: it is extremely dependent on contemporary culture. Which is why I pointed out that the vast bulk of humanity would not find him (or Shakespeare) particularly relevant.

As to the others, they can't really be compared, since they aren't the same genre.

Grey Wolf

[mjasghar]

One of the gentle bits of humour is the reference to who the opera ghost is and what granny says to that person in the epilogue - something that perhaps only Brits of a certain age would understand

[Peelee]

That said, you do need to remember you are about to read parody, satire and humour.

Theres a word for that, it's called "British."

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Theres a word for that, it's called "British."

I'd recommend some fairly decent parody, satire and humour in my native language, but I am fairly certain you can't read it, I'd rather not say which one it is, and I doubt it translates well, if if translates at all (Discworld translations are... erratic in quality at best; I can't imagine it works any better in reverse).

Britain doesn't have exclusivity in any of the above, is my point.

Grey Wolf

[Peelee]

I'd recommend some fairly decent parody, satire and humour in my native language, but I am fairly certain you can't read it

Grey Wolf

Considering my belief that you are a time-traveling Roman who only claims to get their knowledge of that civilization from podcasts in an attempt to stifle suspicion, coupled with my thorough grounding in Latin due to four years of study in high school, I can absolutely assure you that I cannot read a word of it anymore.

Also i wish to congratulate you on your shockingly high level of assimilation of technology and culture two thousand years past your time, my lupine friend.

[Wizard_Lizard]

Considering my belief that you are a time-traveling Roman who only claims to get their knowledge of that civilization from podcasts in an attempt to stifle suspicion, coupled with my thorough grounding in Latin due to four years of study in high school, I can absolutely assure you that I cannot read a word of it anymore.

Also i wish to congratulate you on your shockingly high level of assimilation of technology and culture two thousand years past your time, my lupine friend.

grey wolf s actually a lizard.
tryst me.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Considering my belief that you are a time-traveling Roman who only claims to get their knowledge of that civilization from podcasts in an attempt to stifle suspicion, coupled with my thorough grounding in Latin due to four years of study in high school, I can absolutely assure you that I cannot read a word of it anymore.

Also i wish to congratulate you on your shockingly high level of assimilation of technology and culture two thousand years past your time, my lupine friend.

I'm time travelling as fast as you are. I just chose not to die until I visited the moon.

It's taken a while.

Grey Wolf

[Peelee]

tryst me.

I'd rather not, if you don't mind.

I'm time travelling as fast as you are. I just chose not to die until I visited the moon.

It's taken a while.

Grey Wolf

That's an excellent plan, and one I think I should adopt as well.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

That's an excellent plan, and one I think I should adopt as well.

I may have stolen it from Girl Genius.

Unless, of course, they stole it from me.

Grey Wolf

[Fyraltari]

I'd rather not, if you don't mind.

If was going for that joke, but according to Merriam-Webster, that just means «meeting».

[hroþila]

If was going for that joke, but according to Merriam-Webster, that just means «meeting».

It's mostly a meeting between lovers though.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

If was going for that joke, but according to Merriam-Webster, that just means «meeting».

The Cambridge dictionary much more clearly specifies the romantic (and secretive) nature of a tryst:

tryst
noun [ C ] UK ​ /trɪst/ US ​ /trɪst/ old use or humorous
​
a meeting between two people who are having a romantic relationship, especially a secret one.

ETA: I always got the feeling it implied the relationship to be short in duration, too, but I don't see that substantiated in any of the dictionaries. Hmmm.

Grey Wolf

[Peelee]

If was going for that joke, but according to Merriam-Webster, that just means «meeting».

Those prudes.

[D.One]

The Cambridge dictionary much more clearly specifies the romantic (and secretive) nature of a tryst:


ETA: I always got the feeling it implied the relationship to be short in duration, too, but I don't see that substantiated in any of the dictionaries. Hmmm.

Grey Wolf

And now I'm thinking if tryst and trust have any relation, etymologically speaking. Besides the proximity of "y" and "u" in a standard keyboard, I mean.

[KorvinStarmast]

ETA: I always got the feeling it implied the relationship to be short in duration, too, but I don't see that substantiated in any of the dictionaries.

When I first learned of that term, it's connotation was explained as both "illicit" (philandering, typically) and brief in time due to not wanting to be caught. But it wasn't implied as being a one off, so having multiple trysts with one's mistress or secret beau would be expected.

One could argue "a quick one while he's away" in terms of urgency.

That said, it makes Kaa's "Trust in Me" song to Mowgli, if spelled by an errant index finger "Tryst in Me" a bit out of line for a movie aimed at kids. (Jungle Book, Disney, original cartoon)

[Grey_Wolf_c]

And now I'm thinking if tryst and trust have any relation, etymologically speaking. Besides the proximity of "y" and "u" in a standard keyboard, I mean.

The etymologies seem unrelated beyond PIE.

Spoiler: Large quotes

Show

tryst (n.)
late 14c., "appointment to meet at a certain time and place," from Old French tristre "waiting place, appointed station in hunting," probably from a Scandinavian source such as Old Norse treysta "to trust, make firm," from Proto-Germanic *treuwaz "having or characterized by good faith," from PIE *drew-o-, a suffixed form of the root *deru- "be firm, solid, steadfast." The notion would be "place one waits trustingly." As a verb, late 14c. Related: Trysting.

trust (n.)
c. 1200, "reliance on the veracity, integrity, or other virtues of someone or something; religious faith," from Old Norse traust "help, confidence, protection, support," from Proto-Germanic abstract noun *traustam (source also of Old Frisian trast, Dutch troost "comfort, consolation," Old High German trost "trust, fidelity," German Trost "comfort, consolation," Gothic trausti "agreement, alliance"), from Proto-Germanic *treuwaz, source of Old English treowian "to believe, trust," and treowe "faithful, trusty," from PIE root *deru- "be firm, solid, steadfast."

from c. 1300 as "reliability, trustworthiness; trustiness, fidelity, faithfulness;" from late 14c. as "confident expectation" and "that on which one relies." From early 15c. in legal sense of "confidence placed in a one who holds or enjoys the use of property entrusted to him by its legal owner;" mid-15c. as "condition of being legally entrusted." Meaning "businesses organized to reduce competition" is recorded from 1877. Trust-buster is recorded from 1903.

Grey Wolf

[danielxcutter]

Well, if all you're going to give me is bars to jump over so low that earthworms can pass them without surfacing, that is certainly an easy answer.
Grey Wolf

I have got to use some variation of that line some day.

[Wizard_Lizard]

If was going for that joke, but according to Merriam-Webster, that just means «meeting».

get this....
It was actually a typo...
on akeyboard y and u are right beside eachother.....

[Fyraltari]

get this....
It was actually a typo...
on akeyboard y and u are right beside eachother.....

I know it was a typo. You do not exactly hold the record for "less likely to make a typo" on these forums, you know.

[Wizard_Lizard]

I know it was a typo. You do not exactly hold the record for "less likely to make a typo" on these forums, you know.

what? Never...
(mutters something about using the internet on a reading device)