Results 211 to 240 of 383
-
2012-09-14, 08:47 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
-
2012-09-14, 09:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: OOTS #863 - The Discussion Thread
I think you don't understand one fundamental trait of "OOTS leveling": NPCs don't need to actually level up. They can be paradropped in front of the PCs any time and when that happens, they'll magically be at the "right" level, appropriate for the story and challenge.
So, regardless of what we do or do not know about Tarquin's background, he's clearly a fair bit higher level than the Order. I had called that before we knew Durkon's Holy Word hadn't affected him -- that piece of confirming evidence wasn't even needed to know it, because it's so obvious that it (should normally) go without saying: when the PCs meet a new big bad villain, the said big bad villain is more powerful than them, no matter how many years of adventuring he's got under his belt.Offer good while supplies last. Two to a customer. Each item sold separately. Batteries not included. Mileage may vary. All sales are final. Allow six weeks for delivery. Some items not available. Some assembly required. Some restrictions may apply. All entries become our property. Employees not eligible. Entry fees not refundable. Local restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Except in Indiana.
-
2012-09-14, 09:55 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
Re: OOTS #863 - The Discussion Thread
“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds;
-
2012-09-14, 10:02 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: OOTS #863 - The Discussion Thread
Thanks for summing this up!
You actually forgot a couple other elements that are also pointing to V having been created male (for example, off the top of my head, there's RawBearNYC's opinion on the ways Rich invariably made male/female bodies different in his very early stick figure style, and from memory there's also another thing Rich said somewhere in 2003 which is quite revealing when you read between the lines), but getting into the details of these would belong in the (currently dormant, as no other evidence ever surfaces as the years pass) V's gender discussion thread.Offer good while supplies last. Two to a customer. Each item sold separately. Batteries not included. Mileage may vary. All sales are final. Allow six weeks for delivery. Some items not available. Some assembly required. Some restrictions may apply. All entries become our property. Employees not eligible. Entry fees not refundable. Local restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Except in Indiana.
-
2012-09-14, 10:22 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2008
Re: OOTS #863 - The Discussion Thread
It's hard to see Tarquin as 17th or so, if we assume that the OOTS is 13-15 or so. He talks about them as mid-level and about how things were back when he was their level. that could just be Tarquin, but he seems to tolerate them the way that Xykon does, as a nuisance as opposed to a threat. I'd guess he's significantly more powerful than any OOTS character.
As for Elan - there's a very good reason why he would be bad in this fight, which is that his competence is tied to his puns. I'm guessing that if the opponent cannot hear the pun, he is no longer oddly effective Elan, but just a guy singing a song Elan.
-
2012-09-14, 10:55 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2011
Re: OOTS #863 - The Discussion Thread
Tarquin is the ruler of an empire built upon slavery. Even if he isn't training dinosaurs, in the past there might have been plenty of humans to use it upon without trying to fight them. He has slavedrivers to do that for him now, when they aren't on strike.
-
2012-09-14, 11:21 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
Re: OOTS #863 - The Discussion Thread
I would be surprised if Tarquin didn't have Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Whip.
('Course, Forikroder, if he does that's evidence against Tarquin having a ton of feats around using a greataxe, and flat-out refutation of the idea that Tarquin has no feats that are about using another weapon.)Last edited by Kish; 2012-09-14 at 11:28 AM.
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
-
2012-09-14, 11:26 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2004
- Location
Re: OOTS #863 - The Discussion Thread
Tarquin could be as low as level 15-16 or as high as Epic. More likely somewhere in between.
I have two quibbles with Tarquin being Epic level:
(1) It is impressive to toy with a group of opposing characters just 2 or 3 levels lower than you, because it can easily go wrong. If Tarquin is 21st+ level, it is just toying with outright inferiors. That is not impressive at all. It is just a DM Pet peeing on the PCs with impunity (yet again).
(2) I have suspension of disbelief difficulties with Epic NPCs lying around. The OotsVerse doesn't feel (to me) like a world where there are many challenges around to actually push past the mid-teens. IMHO, of course.
Obviously there is some significant degree of wiggle room on both points. But "wow, Tarquin must be Epic" is not really a positive point for how I would rate Tarquin, both as a character and the quality of writing for his character.
And the same points apply to Xykon, albeit to a much lesser degree. "Wow, Xykon is probably 27th level" makes me first and foremost think how amazingly incompetent he is, not how impressive or interesting his is.I owe Peelee 5 Quatloos. But I am going double or nothing that Durkon will be casting 8th level spells at the big finale.
I bet Goblin_Priest 5 quatloos that Xykon does not know RC has the phylactery at this point in the tale (#1139).
Using my Bardic skills I see the fate of Belkar...so close!
Using my Bardic skills I see the fate of goblinkind!
-
2012-09-14, 11:38 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2011
-
2012-09-14, 11:43 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
Re: OOTS #863 - The Discussion Thread
It also occurs to me that the point of the "inactive ingredient" is to drive home that Elan was absolutely right to think that any item Tarquin would have to give would be monstrously evil.
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
-
2012-09-14, 11:47 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2004
- Location
Re: OOTS #863 - The Discussion Thread
Malack holds his cards close to his chest, something to be commended in a Maybe Major Villain. He is fun to speculate about (and I my own fun and outlandish speculations about Malack, which I will not go into here), but really we do not know what makes Malack tick yet.
I look forward to seeing him play his cards on the table.I owe Peelee 5 Quatloos. But I am going double or nothing that Durkon will be casting 8th level spells at the big finale.
I bet Goblin_Priest 5 quatloos that Xykon does not know RC has the phylactery at this point in the tale (#1139).
Using my Bardic skills I see the fate of Belkar...so close!
Using my Bardic skills I see the fate of goblinkind!
-
2012-09-14, 11:58 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
Re: OOTS #863 - The Discussion Thread
Agreed. A more constructive discussion would be on Tarquins maximum level. I think we can safely conclude Tarquin's level < Xykon's. I think there is a lot of evidence that Tarquin's level >= Durkon's level + [1d4 + 1], somewhere in that range. I don't see any justification for going much higher.
-
2012-09-14, 12:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2011
Re: OOTS #863 - The Discussion Thread
Isn't it very established by now that Tarquin favours pre-marital sex? He certainly didn't mind it with the Captain of the Free City of Doom. It seems almost certain that the oinment is not the reason for all his wives dying, after all, remember we all thought he had killed Penelope, and look who was actually the killer :P.
-
2012-09-14, 12:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2004
- Location
Re: OOTS #863 - The Discussion Thread
On the nose.
To add insult to injury, the objectionable part is an inactive ingredient, that is rifting on a classic D&D non-evil magic item. It could have been heart of a pig. Or olive oil. It so happens that Tarquin simply likes it better when it includes heart of a virgin.I owe Peelee 5 Quatloos. But I am going double or nothing that Durkon will be casting 8th level spells at the big finale.
I bet Goblin_Priest 5 quatloos that Xykon does not know RC has the phylactery at this point in the tale (#1139).
Using my Bardic skills I see the fate of Belkar...so close!
Using my Bardic skills I see the fate of goblinkind!
-
2012-09-14, 12:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2011
-
2012-09-14, 01:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2012
- Location
- NY, USA
- Gender
Re: OOTS #863 - The Discussion Thread
Tarquin doesn't really seem unusually prepared, or particularly 'broken' in terms of what he can do.
I would expect a high-level Factotem with roughly infinite WBL, in a universe where rolled stats can and do produce anti-MAD monsters like Miko, to be more than capable of doing everything he has*. By the same token, his preparations are general precautions rather than Batman-style "aha, but I secretly fed you paralyzing poison in your hotel chocolates, which are activated by the adrenaline of our fight**" shenanigans.
Personally though, I still like Nale much much more than Tarquin. He is funny, actually pretty successful as antagonists go, has connections to every major player in the plot, and the Nale/Sabine relationship is interesting. If Nale doesn't kill Tarquin and take back the "recurring secondary villain" mantle by the end of this arc I would be very surprised.
*Heck, with the right items even a high-Int Fighter could pull off most of his tricks; slap some Gloves of Arrow Snatching, a used-up Luck Blade or three, the item which gives Mettle + a Ring of Evasion, standard Save and AC boosting items, even something like a Tome of Clear Thought +5 if he needs extra skill points/languages known.
**Actually a real Batman plan, though it was **** Grayson instead of Bruce himself.
-Edit-
Seriously? THAT got auto-censored?Last edited by Water_Bear; 2012-09-14 at 01:26 PM. Reason: Huh?
-
2012-09-14, 01:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
- Location
- Memphis, TN
- Gender
-
2012-09-14, 01:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
Re: OOTS #863 - The Discussion Thread
-
2012-09-14, 03:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
Re: OOTS #863 - The Discussion Thread
Honestly, hisknowing Drow sign language was the only really questionable thing he did, and it's at least conceivable that a really, really experienced adventurer such as himself would take the time to learn a silent form of communication, as he'd know that there would be at lesat some situations where verbal communciation would be impossible.
Hell, I thought of this in a totally unrelated situation, so...“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds;
-
2012-09-14, 05:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
- Gender
-
2012-09-14, 05:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
Re: OOTS #863 - The Discussion Thread
Me, for a character of mine. I ultimately discarded the idea because practically no one else knows Drow Sign Language, so the communication wouldn't be effective, but Tarquin's been in a position to train armies. He could easily have taught some of his elite goons the language, and thus found a use for it.“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds;
-
2012-09-14, 05:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
Re: OOTS #863 - The Discussion Thread
“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds;
-
2012-09-14, 05:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
- Location
- Lake Wobegon
- Gender
Re: OOTS #863 - The Discussion Thread
Nale, by virtue of knowing Dimension Door, can teleport. Granted, he can only go a few hundred feet at a time, but he's a sorcerer. He can do it again. And again. And again. You see the pattern.
Also, why are people assuming Z's going to consciously betray Nale for Tarquin? He's stayed loyal to Nale for over eight hundred strips, and has been working behind Tarquin's back, on Nale's behalf, for a significant part of that time. A small kindness by Tarquin is enough to persude him otherwise? Why? Because Tarquin has magical friendship powers? Now, I like MLP as much as the next guy, but this story is not that one.
-
2012-09-14, 07:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
Re: OOTS #863 - The Discussion Thread
Even if Xykon now gets the jump on Tarquin and co, the pace has been slowed considerably. I am indeed looking forward to seeing Malack again, as I posted before, but the LG getting away to regroup has been done before. More than once. As someone else commented in this thread, it feels like a children's show where the villain always miraculously escapes so he'll be around for the the next episode.
I'd love to see some definite progress, not yet another escape + replace the mooks.Even the loss of Sabine is very much temporary (although the time she's forcibly gone can be more than enough for a decent confrontation.
But hey, it's not my story, I definitely can't do better. But this is how I feel about this plot point :)Last edited by Bundin; 2012-09-14 at 07:02 PM.
-
2012-09-14, 09:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2008
- Gender
Re: OOTS #863 - The Discussion Thread
.
-.____________________
./___________________()-------Ron Miel
|...___________________--------sits down
|..| |_________________()-------and starts
|..|/__________________--------singing
| ___________________()-------about gold
.
-
2012-09-14, 10:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
Re: OOTS #863 - The Discussion Thread
This drow: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0497.html
Drow are traditionally matriarchal, so them being less gender ambiguous makes sense.
-
2012-09-14, 10:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
Re: OOTS #863 - The Discussion Thread
Assistant Treasurer of the Haley fan club
Crewman of the Bandana fan club
-
2012-09-14, 11:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2011
Re: OOTS #863 - The Discussion Thread
All the more reason for those to be male drow in drag, scheming to usurp power. Nah, there are two male drow featured in On the Origins of the PCs. Both have boxy torsos and they are either wearing the trappings of wizards or come with the standard-issue scimitars. Zz'dtri does both. There was also at least one female elf in OOotPC, and a number of them in Start of Darkness, however none of those were Drow.
Some more clues for Ron Miel, which I don't think have been brought up. First, the Linear Guild recruited Pompey as Vaarsuvius' evil opposite; Pompey had a clearly-established gender identity. Also, Qarr is openly confused about V's gender, yet confident in using male pronouns for Zz'dtri. Z is too... terse to really establish that, but I think Qarr and Sabine is enough. I also found it very funny when Vaarsuvius used Haley's catchphrase - guess which part was the error.Last edited by KillingAScarab; 2012-09-14 at 11:53 PM.
-
2012-09-15, 09:51 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
-
2012-09-15, 10:06 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
Re: OOTS #863 - The Discussion Thread
Last edited by Kish; 2012-09-15 at 10:15 AM.
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II