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Thread: True Dragon as PC
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2011-01-20, 04:42 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
True Dragon as PC
So my DM has decided that for our next campaign we will all be dragons, i am not too fond of this, but that's another discussion.
He put us at ECL 12. Looking at the chart in Draconimicon (which will be used), the lowest ECL dragons are:
White Wyrmling (3 RHD, LA +2, ECL 5)
+2 Con, -4 Int, -4 Cha
Breath weapon: 1d6 cone of cold
Movement: Land 60 ft, Swim 60 ft, Fly 150 ft (Average), Burrow 30 ft
+2 Natural Armor
Ice walking, Immunity to Cold, Vulnerability to Fire
Brass Wyrmling (4 RHD, LA +2, ECL 6)
+2 Con
Breath weapon: 1d6 line of fire, cone of sleep
Movement: Land 60 ft, Fly 150 ft (Average), Burrow 30 ft
+3 Natural Armor
Speak with animals, Immunity to Fire, Vulnerability to Cold
Copper Wyrmling (5 RHD, LA +2, ECL 7)
+2 Con, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Cha
Breath weapon: 2d4 line of acid, cone of slow gas
Movement: Land 40 ft, Fly 100 ft (Average)
+4 Natural Armor
Spider Climb, Immunity to Acid
Black Wyrmling (4 RHD, LA +3, ECL 7)
+2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Cha
Breath weapon: 2d4 line of acid
Movement: Land 60 ft, Swim 60 ft, Fly 100 ft (Average)
+3 Natural Armor
Immunity to Acide, Water breathing
Currently i am considering the Copper Wyrmling with 5 levels of Cleric and DMM to get two spells persistant (using all my feats, a holy symbol and a nightstick, don't know which spells yet).
Other options i am considering:
Melee
A level of Barbarian to get Pounce (1 Bite, 2 claws), but the damage would still be horrific.
Swordsage or Warblade and maximize concentration to get good saves and with a Ring of Diamond Mind to get get Greater Insightful Strike (2x Concentration) to deal damage (about 70).
Anyone got any other fun ideas?
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2011-01-20, 04:55 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
Re: True Dragon as PC
How about Dragonwrought Kobold. You are technically still a True Dragon. Less LA and RHD means more caster levels.
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2011-01-20, 04:56 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
Re: True Dragon as PC
Well, Cleric seems like a better Idea than barbarian since you don't get a boost to strength, and the mental boosts don't particularly help a Barbarian. You could also be a wizard or a Sorcerer since you get a boost to Charisma and Intelligence.
What is it you want to do with this character exactly?
Also, depending on what the white dragon is trying to do I'd ask him to reconsider. A -4 to intelligence and charisma may not be worth the one less hit die.
You could also try and convince your DM to allow homebrew. These classes are made to be much more playable than the normal dragons.
Spoiler
Blue Dragon - by Oslecamo
Bronze Dragon - by Gorgondantess/Oslecamo
Fang dragon - by unknown
Golden Dragon - by Oslecamo
Green Dragon - by un_known
Red Dragon - by Oslecamo
Purple Dragon - by Oslecamo
Pyroclastic dragon - by Kyuubi/Oslecamo
Silver Dragon - by Oslecamo
Styx Dragon - by Kyuubi/Oslecamo
White Dragon - by un_known
Seems like a fairly bad abuse of the rules, and it sounds like it isn't what the DM intended at all.Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2011-01-20 at 04:59 AM.
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2011-01-20, 05:16 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
Re: True Dragon as PC
The homebrew as well as the Kobold will not be allowed.
I considered Wizard, but the Dragon itself has Cleric casting and that will stack with my own cleric casting and given the little information we had from the DM, we should eventually get there.
What i want with the char, i am not sure. I want to see what my options are.Last edited by Gnaritas; 2011-01-20 at 05:18 AM.
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2011-01-20, 05:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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2011-01-20, 05:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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- Xin-Shalast
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Re: True Dragon as PC
You have to be a True Dragon? Not something like an Ambush Drake?
I think a Steel Dragon(ed2:Dragons of Faerun? thanks Kyuubi) might be of interest to you, those were mentioned as having good stats to HD to LA value for the younger forms. (ed2: since you're thinking melee, IIRC, fangs are another possible contestant there)
Edit: Totemist 1-2 would be of use to you if you're looking to fill the melee role. Since you're already going with natural weapons anyway, might as well take it up a notch.
A possibility as well, from Lords of Madness, is getting a Mouthpick weapon (+1 property) from the Beholder section, though it would preclude the use of your breath weapon while you were wielding it in place of your bite attack (and since it gives auto-proficiency, you can have it be an exotic weapon that's better than your bite attack in some or multiple ways)
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2011-01-20, 05:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
Re: True Dragon as PC
According to wikipedia, sounds like Steel are in the book Dragons of Faerun.
Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2011-01-20 at 05:34 AM.
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2011-01-20, 06:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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Re: True Dragon as PC
Surprisingly, I've seen this topic come up before but could only find this thread on Brilliant Gameologists about a steel dragon gish using sovereign archetypes.
Though it does raise the question, LA buy-off or no?
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2011-01-20, 10:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Finland
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2011-01-20, 10:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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- Xin-Shalast
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2011-01-20, 10:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2005
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- Appalachian Mountains
Re: True Dragon as PC
I'm starting into one of these myself, except we are starting at EC 18, and can't take class levels until we hit Young Adult HD.
Honestly, there aren't really any classes better than Dragon HD except for spellcasting ones, which is a high cost to pay for power (d4 instead of d12 HD for arcane, d8HD for divine, lose two good saves, lose 6+int skills, and starting at a low spellcaster level for your ECL...)Aratos Tell
HP:53/53 AC:19,FlatFooted:16,Touch:13
Active Effects: Speak w/Animals
Spells Prepared: Cure Minor Wounds*4, Flare, Calm Animals, Charm Animal, Cure Light Wounds, Animal Messenger, Flaming Sphere, Lesser Restoration, Hold Animal, Cure Mod. Wounds*2, Speak w/Plants
Megiddo
HP:26/26 PP: 40/40 AC:14,FlatFooted:13,Touch:13
Active Effects:
Spells Prepared: Light*2, Burning Hands*2, Protection f/Evil, Magic Missile, Shocking Grasp, See Invis., Acid Arrow, Scorching Ray*2
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2011-01-20, 10:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
Re: True Dragon as PC
Class abilities are worth a lot, consider a ECL 18, 12 Racial HD that takes a level of Warblade, it can take level 4 maneuvers from the get go. Who cares that it loses 2 skillpoints and a bit of saves.
LA cannot be bought off in our games.Last edited by Gnaritas; 2011-01-20 at 10:50 AM.
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2011-01-20, 10:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: True Dragon as PC
I was iin an amazing dragons game, adapted from the 2nd ed Council of Wyrms. We were essentially gestalt, dragon HD on one side, classes on the other.
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2011-01-20, 10:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: True Dragon as PC
I second (or third, or whatever) steel wyrmling, they are the best dragons for these kind of games, and with the Loredrake sovereign archetype you can functions as a pretty good gish, and best of all you only lose 1 HP on average (I think). Continue advancing with classes such as Abjurant Champion or which ever is your favourite gish prestige class.
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2011-01-22, 09:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: True Dragon as PC
Come to think of it... You might be able to enter Master of Many Forms or Warshaper almost straight away.
This has gotten me thinking about trying out a Steel Wyrmling myself for an ECL 9 game, actually.
So, what are you thinking now, OP?
Edit: Some useful medium/small humanoid and animal forms from the Master of Many Forms bible.
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2011-01-22, 11:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2009
Re: True Dragon as PC
Urgh, Dragons have a horrible amount of HD and LA.
Warshaper needs more than alternate form though, so no go there.
EDIT: Wyrmling also is bad for melee. Usually very small. Those that aren't have very high ECL.
Might as well go for fast + strafing Breath weaponLast edited by 2xMachina; 2011-01-22 at 11:37 AM.
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2011-01-22, 11:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: True Dragon as PC
So polymorph is fine but the equivalent of an SLA of it isn't, interesting. Ah well, so much for thinking outside of the box.
Well a Steel Dragon with Loredrake makes it like they're a sorcerer-based 4th level Eldritch Knight with 2 LA. So it's not too horrible. Or give all that much beyond the alternate form.
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2011-01-22, 11:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: True Dragon as PC
If everyone's a dragon, then the LA is somewhat irrelevant.
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2011-01-22, 11:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2009
Re: True Dragon as PC
Actually... Alternate form is not really a SLA equivalent of Polymorph. Alternate form is usually limited to a less forms than Polymorph. If you do have a SLA of Polymorph, you qualify for Warshaper.
I'm not familiar with Steel Dragon, so I can't say.
As for irrelevant LA... it does have a small effect from challenges (as they don't have the LA)
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2011-01-22, 12:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: True Dragon as PC
You want to be a steel dragon. You really want to be a steel dragon.
ECL 6 for wyrmling, with 4 dragon hit dice, sorcerer 1 casting, alternate form for any humanoid and anymal form and a good flying speed.
With 6 levels to play with, just take whatever full BAB class 1/Abjurant Champion 5. Take Surrogate Spellcasting from Savage Species and spend your day fighting as a legendary ape (Str 30!).
For bonus points, call yourself the Dragon Monkey King.
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2011-01-22, 12:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2009
Re: True Dragon as PC
... Steel Dragons seems powerful... None of the others are even near it in power.
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2011-01-22, 12:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-01-22, 12:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: True Dragon as PC
Mercury dragons are pretty good with their hit-and-run tactics as well. They have a ridiculously high fly speed as wyrmlings and are around the same ECL as mercury dragons. Get high initiative, Improved Flight, Flyby Attack and make the sky your bitch! Bonus points if you are a Warlock, a Dragonfire Adept or if you focus on your Sorcerer side and breath spells. Oooh yeah. Call yourself Blitzkrieg and go to town humming 'hey go let's go' as you devastate everything with the unholy fire of awesomeness.
Last edited by true_shinken; 2011-01-22 at 12:16 PM.
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2011-01-22, 12:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: True Dragon as PC
Quotes:Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.Spoiler
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2011-01-22, 12:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-01-22, 02:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
Re: True Dragon as PC
It could be that the Dragons from Dragons of Faerun are not allowed.
In that case the Steel Dragon is out. I have the following alternatives:
1. Pyroclastic Dragon Wyrmling Barbarian 1: focused on his Disintegrating Breath. With Heighten Breath, Ability Focus and Barbarian and a base CON of 22 the DC will be 28 (32 when raging). Plus i will be medium now and large after 3 RHD which will make me a bit of a decent melee-er.
2. Shadow Dragon Wyrmling Warlock 3 Swordsage 2: with Darkness, Devil's Sight and Assassin's Stance i can make 2d6 ranged touch attacks with 2d6 sneak attack.
3. Shadow Dragon Wyrmling Warblade 1 Sorcerer 1 Abjurant Champion 3:
Using the regular Wraithstrike + Power Attack i am still doing a measly 1d4+9 with a (touch) bite attack. But with a full attack this does get better.
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2011-01-22, 02:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: True Dragon as PC
Last edited by Czin; 2011-01-22 at 02:14 PM.
"Abase yourself before me, you groveling insect!"-Sutekh.
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2011-01-22, 02:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-01-22, 02:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2009
Re: True Dragon as PC
Shall we start fearing the Wight-apocalypse?
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2011-01-22, 02:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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