Doctor Who (again) [SPOILERS]

[factotum]

And yet he was still perfectly un-happy to wipe out an entire Dalek fleet to save Rose.

The Ninth Doctor's reaction to Daleks was coloured by his experiences in the Time War, though, so you can't really judge his general attitude to killing from that!

[Fjolnir]

RE: The Doctor and killing; he doesn't like it, but if need be he will. The 9th doctor is (what he believes to be the sole) survivor of a war where the entire whole of reality was the battlefield and he only survived by locking both the daleks and his own people one one side of a closed time loop, this make daleks vs the 9th doctor a very touchy subject for him since none of his people made it out but apparently daleks lived. The 10th doctor had a threshold that when crossed became a steel beartrap. the 11th doctor tends to be nonviolent BUT is not afraid to throw his rep around in an effort to reach a point where the other side assumes that violence is not the answer to dealing with him.

[Weezer]

RE: The Doctor and killing; he doesn't like it, but if need be he will. The 9th doctor is (what he believes to be the sole) survivor of a war where the entire whole of reality was the battlefield and he only survived by locking both the daleks and his own people one one side of a closed time loop, this make daleks vs the 9th doctor a very touchy subject for him since none of his people made it out but apparently daleks lived. The 10th doctor had a threshold that when crossed became a steel beartrap. the 11th doctor tends to be nonviolent BUT is not afraid to throw his rep around in an effort to reach a point where the other side assumes that violence is not the answer to dealing with him.

I agree with all of those but the 11th, he is by far the one most amenable to killing. While he doesn't personally kill people he causes mass death and genocide extremely casually compared to the other two. Sentencing the entire Silents race to death, dumping thousands of angels into a time crack, blowing up a cyberfleet for no reason and more. All of this was done without the least bit of hesitation and restraint the other doctors displayed.

[TheArsenal]

All of this was done without the least bit of hesitation and restraint the other doctors displayed.

Kill me if you must but....I like the 11th more.


Let me explain: Because of the older doctor deciding not to kill the Daleks: THE ENTIRE TIME WAR WAS HIS FAULT.

Wow that vow has sure served him well hasn't it. I understand there is a difference between Daleks and most creatures but its constantly annoying when all his vows of pacifism get him is his enemies coming back to kill a few more people.

Like him destroying the cyberfleet. Does he even NEED a reason? Does he HAVE to wait before this enemy that has killed people EVERY TIME HE HAS SEEN THEM? Its like Arkham "Well you said sorry so your good to go kill a few more people before batman drags your ass in again".

The Cyberfleet? ALL COMPOSED OF MURDERED PEOPLE THE CYBERMEN KILLED.

The Silence...well I can say that WAS to harsh. But there where no other alternatives though. But I can say it would have sucked if thier long term plan was "Cure all the diseases in the world using moonrocks".

So yes that was too hasty. But when it comes down to creatures like the Daleks, Cybermen, sometimes angels (All they do is assainiate, Give them a chance, then blast them) you should probably shoot on sight.

Oh and on Evolution of the Daleks let me explain why I consider the Doctor working with the Daleks wrong:

1. What if they where BSing him and where waiting for the moment to strike? Why did't he prepare in case this was the problem?
2. They KILLED to get those shells. Daddies and Uncles are being Converted to serve as vessels for creatures that could only think "EXTERMINATE".
3. But mostly it was the script that didn't make much sense. You can geneticaly remove the xenophobia gland from daleks? Whaa?

[Weezer]

I agree with you that I like the newest Doctors willingness to kill a lot better than the sometimes idiotic "mercy" of other Doctors. But he is unquestionably more of a killer than his previous incarnations, which in a universe of Daleks, Cybermen and Headless Monks is probably the right choice.

[Mauve Shirt]

I think blowing up a Cyberfleet to prove a point is badass, not heartless. Same if he blows up Daleks and Angels. These are creatures that literally do nothing but kill anything that is not one of them. They should be destroyed.

[SuperPanda]

I like eleven just fine and to some degree I do agree with you, on the other hand we are talking about someone who chose the name "Doctor."

He chose that name, it was what he meant to embody - knowledge, wisdom, healing, mercy, hope...

He didn't choose the name "Judge" or "Executioner" he didn't choose the name "Vigilante" or "Sheriff." In a lot of Who stories there is a level of Mystery as to what is really going on and who is really behind it. In a lot of 10's stories he finds out who the enemy is and immediately offers them a chance to stand down without hurting anyone else. Then, when they inevitably refuse, he stamps them all out. Are you saying they shouldn't be offered mercy simply because they probably wouldn't take it?

Individual Cybermen with particularly strong minds have revolted against the group in the past. Even individual Daleks have sided with the Doctor in the past. Is there any reason why he should simply kill and enemy because most of them are evil?

I think the current story line is going in the direction it is because the Doctor is starting to agree with you.

Now, consider this humanity's track record:

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Season 1: Cassandra tries to kill a large group of relatively peaceful aliens because she is speciest and doesn't like anyone different. Humanity finds a Dalek and doesn't know what it is, so they torture it. In another time humanity becomes lost and disorganized so they set up game shows which kill people and live in fear of their own pollution and entertainment. A human time agent is so obsessed with money and revenge that he unwittingly unleashes a plague which well might have eliminated human life on earth.

Season 2: The British government murders a group of enemy combatants who had surrendered on the chance that they would come back. (I know your opinion, but we are given no evidence either way in the show). Humans, albeit from an alternate reality, recreate the cybermen. Really, just about anything involving Torchwood in that season since it mostly involves creating weapons for the express purpose of blowing up aliens.

Season 3: Lazarus - in a bid to avoid death showed no qualms at all about killing everyone around him. The drug sellers and carjackers of New Earth. Humans willingly allying with Daleks out of their own greed and stupidity. World war 1 and how the schools taught the children it was glorious to go off and kill.

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And oh yes, the Tochlafane. "Human Beings. Greatest Monsters of them all."

Season 4: enslaving the Ood. seeing the Sontorans purely as enemy combatants and insisting on going to war, even at the risk of toxic fall out over a huge portion of the world. The Humans versus the fish and ultimately shooting Genny over their 7 day war, how quickly UNIt, Torchwood, and even Sarah Jane turned to weapons of mass destruction. Midnight. Really, just watching Midnight should be enough.

Season 4.5 - If he knew what Jack had done in Children of the Earth, it might wash out the bitter taste of knowing what the government was going to do. The new cyber queen's lust for revenge in The Next Doctor.

Season 5 - Torturing the star whale. The Hungry Earth / Cold blood when the humans murdered their hostage.

Season 6 - The pirate captain risked his son's life on simple greed and much of the crew threatened those around themselves for the same Rebel Flesh/ Almost People. Xenophobia and paranoia. The scene where the boss lady told her transport to kill all the gangers after agreeing with the Doctor to try to work out a peace with them.

Going by the standard that "most of the time that these guys get power they screw with other races / people and cause a lot of suffering" therefore we should kill them; I think earth would be close to the top of places the Doctor would perform a little population control surgery.

Now that, that would truly be falling farther than he had ever fallen before.

[Raddish]

How many alien races have actually stood down when Ten asked them too? For most of them he did not show how much power he had before asking and was instead looking like a feeble person begging for them to stop. He would prbably had much more success if he showed them a fraction of his power, if he showed he would be merciless if they refused to back down before he gave them them choice.

To me he always seemed a little naive to what he was fdoing every time or even he wanted to destroy them but needed an excuse to tell himself he did his best not to...

[Cog]

He would prbably had much more success if he showed them a fraction of his power, if he showed he would be merciless if they refused to back down before he gave them them choice.

That's exactly the thing. He doesn't want them to step down just because there's a bigger bully; he wants them to step down because stepping down is the right thing to do.

[TheArsenal]

Is there any reason why he should simply kill and enemy because most of them are evil?

No because I mentioned: The Cyberfleet? Made up of killed humans. Oh yes one or two resist. Wonderfull. Tell that to the thousands killed.

Im sorry but im tired of humanity being the universes bitch for the infinite years. Give them a helping hand. But if they bite your hand, kill the nearest bystander before you lock them away (Repeat X20) then its time to say ENOUGH! Because 20 bystanders are still killed! All those nameless people killed? Those are still people, with thier hopes and dreams, all shattered because you like a repeating record let them do it!

Lets hypothesize some events shall we?

Would the Cyberfleet decide "Were good, lets stop killing" pack thier things and leave?

Or would they attack the nearest planet? Killing thousands more. Should we hope for that 0.000000000000000001 percent?

I think the current story line is going in the direction it is because the Doctor is starting to agree with you.

And thank god.

Season 1: Cassandra tries to kill a large group of relatively peaceful aliens because she is speciest and doesn't like anyone different.

That was terrible, and you twisted what I said in order to prove your point.

Did I say "Become Genocidal Maniacs?" No. I said :
When a race repeatedly attacks you and repeatedly murders your innocents after repeated peace offerings you should fight back first. Oh sure my "Concience" is going to feal good but my conciense will feal even better when my sister doesn't have to worry about daleks trying to kill her for the umptheenth time.

Humanity finds a Dalek and doesn't know what it is, so they torture it.

*******s. They should have killed it and got it over with. Or if it was just a random alien they should have anylysed and studied it. And Tried to make peace.

In another time humanity becomes lost and disorganized so they set up game shows which kill people and live in fear of their own pollution and entertainment.

That sucks. And that isn't my point. And you know it.

Season 2: The British government murders a group of enemy combatants who had surrendered on the chance that they would come back. (I know your opinion, but we are given no evidence either way in the show).

So we should just wait until an armada comes to kill us and wait until the doctor saves us? Should we have taken that risk?

Humans, albeit from an alternate reality, recreate the cybermen.

So? A Crazy guy creates a crazy experiment. Never heard that before (Cough Daleks Cough Mondans Cough). Was it the entire species fault? No.

Really, just about anything involving Torchwood in that season since it mostly involves creating weapons for the express purpose of blowing up aliens.

Ah yes the peacefull aliens that bring us nothing but love and joy every time they visit.

Season 3: Lazarus - in a bid to avoid death showed no qualms at all about killing everyone around him.

So its the entire species fault? One guy?

The drug sellers and carjackers of New Earth.

Drug sellers exist! WHAT A TWEEST. Seriously, your just showing every bad thing Humans have done. Humans have done a TON of bad things yet we TRY to not do them. We TRY to be better. Just because humans do a ton of bad stuff doesn't meen it gives aliens the rights to invade us every tuesday. N

Humans willingly allying with Daleks out of their own greed and stupidity.

Yep true. Thats dumb. So?

World war 1 and how the schools taught the children it was glorious to go off and kill.

Terrible. But hey, its a leftover instinct from our early days of hunting. Compassion, Kindness, sympathy, are all human inventions. Greed, Killing are all natural instincs that we FIGHT every day to suppress through sports, video games, ect.

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And oh yes, the Tochlafane. "Human Beings. Greatest Monsters of them all."

So?

Season 4: enslaving the Ood.

That was horrific. So it makes it OK for other creatures to attack us? I understand we do alot of nasty crap and we shouldn't do it. But if you saw a Dalek (Just randomly in front of you) would you raise your arm and say "Hello" or would you grab the nearest photon blaster on the table?

Seeing the Sontorans purely as enemy combatants and insisting on going to war, even at the risk of toxic fall out over a huge portion of the world.

Ah yes the race that exists soley to rage war with clones. That view "Helping the sick" as distastfull and low.

The Humans versus the fish and ultimately shooting Genny over their 7 day war

Heh, that was a funny episode. Remember the fish? No? Both sides where fighting an idiotic battle that should have been stopped.

how quickly UNIt, Torchwood, and even Sarah Jane turned to weapons of mass destruction.

AFTER HOW LONG! HOW MUCH OF OUR SPECIES KILLED IS ENOUGH TO YOU! SHOULD WE JUST LET THEM COME? OVER AND OVER THEY COME, KILL US, AND THEN LEAVE. WE WONT LET THEM HURT US AGAIN.

This is humanity. The race that has been bitch-slapped for such a long time that it instantly gets out the nukes.

Midnight. Really, just watching Midnight should be enough.

Yeah, an alien posses a human and kills people. People panic. Try to save selfs. How horrific.

Season 4.5 - If he knew what Jack had done in Children of the Earth, it might wash out the bitter taste of knowing what the government was going to do.

Sorry hadn't seen that one.

The new cyber queen's lust for revenge in The Next Doctor.

So we should destroy all the cybermen then?

Season 5 - Torturing the star whale.

Trying to save selfs from solar flare with fear of death. It was a hard choice to make. I wish they didn't have to do that.

The Hungry Earth / Cold blood when the humans murdered their hostage.

Yeah. The Silurians attacked first. They saw the simple act of drilling as an act of war. But we should have said that it was all a misunderstanding and worked out a truce.

Season 6 - The pirate captain risked his son's life on simple greed and much of the crew threatened those around themselves for the same Rebel Flesh/ Almost People.

Yes yes we are a race that can feal greed and hate.

The scene where the boss lady told her transport to kill all the gangers after agreeing with the Doctor to try to work out a peace with them.

What a bitch.

I think earth would be close to the top of places the Doctor would perform a little population control surgery.

So minor (Comparatively) acts of voilence (Except the Ood slavery of course. That was terrible. But the Doctor freed them and from what I understand the humans did not know about thier mind control. Still terrible though) are as evil as a races that constantly invade us to murder ALL OF US at once?

I can ALSO go through a ten times larger list of races that planned genocide at least at the millions scale (If not at the billion).

[SuperPanda]

The point I was making, and the one you deliberately chose to miss, is that most human beings regularly display the exact same traits you would condemn all of the random aliens of Who-verse to death for.

Throughout the Doctor's time he's found a thousand Lazarus for every one Donna Noble or Sarah Jane or Amy Pond. The Doctor is not human, he views humanity as his favorite pet race, probably because he is lonely and we look like his people do, but we are not Time Lords.

So, to press forward your own genocidal desires you would discount all consideration that the human race could stoop to the sort of genocidal desires of the Daleks. Well, evidence is that when humans get scared they attack what they don't understand (which is most everything), and when they are in power they don't look out for the little guy.

As I said at the beginning of my post, I do like Smith's Doctor. I'm slightly saddened by the direction the series has been taken because the darker stories have lost alot of the "fun" that made me love the show, and part of that "fun" was having a hero who was powerful and clever and merciful but not necessarily nice about it.

The point I was trying to make is this: If the you were the Doctor's companion and could steer him in the direction you are advocating, it would not take very long before humanity would become the victim of your own designs.

We are better than the Daleks, but not all of us are. We are better than they Cybermen, but some of us are worse than them.

I was not taking your points or twisting them around, I was showing the number of times that humanity has been responsible for the sort of things that you would condemn an entire race to death for when we have evidence of individuals defying the normal rules for both your examples.

Dalek Sec and Dalek Kahn both on separate occasions redefine our understanding of being "Dalek." Are they the rule? No, they are the exception to the rule and they prove one very important thing (for me and for the Doctor) : Exceptions exist.

There are also two examples of humans overcoming the cyber conversion process with full control of their new forms (and in one sense full control of all the cybermen by sheer luck). So, we now know there are exceptions. Not all cyber converts die in the process... so how many people did the Doctor kill off hand when he attacked the Cybermen?

The Sontaron Nurse in the most recent episode shows that while they are a clone race, the individuals retain their own personalities and separate identities. Can wiping them out be justified?

On the Silurains, season 5,

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Actually, humanity attacked first, they just didn't know they had attacked. The drill was threatening to wipe our the Sillurans who were only defending themselves.

On the season 4 finale point

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Of course I wouldn't want humanity to surender to the Dalek's, I'm saying that when you look at how fast - and therefore prepared - humanity was with super weapons versus other potential tools, it makes a clear point about our race. When we are frightened we become very destructive, not unlike many of the other "bad" races throughout Sci-Fi.

The question, which I was trying to pose through those examples, was where do you draw the line between an "entire race" needing to die for the crimes of "most" of its members. How many innocent people are you (thinking of yourself as the Doctor in this case) willing to murder in the course of bringing the guilty ones to justice?

The reason I loved 9 and 10 and came to love the Doctor's character was that he clearly felt the answer was zero.

If he needs to kill, then so be it, but he gives them a chance to redeem themselves first.

[TheArsenal]

If he needs to kill, then so be it, but he gives them a chance to redeem themselves first.

And if they dont? For the Twelfth time?

What I mean by "If you see it, kill it" I mean that if it was WW2 and you saw a Nazi, do you say "Wait, here is a chance to redeem yourself" or do you shoot the guy.

Now there ARE exceptions to the rule, but they are minor in comparison to what the huge amount of people that where not. The exceptions should not be killed but respected as we respect each other.
But Generaly, if I saw a Dalek. I would grab a gun and kill him the moment I saw him.
If it was some new race that I didn't know much about I would aprouch the situation catiously and with care.
If I was being attacked I would attack back.
If there was a faction of decent daleks and evil then thats another story. Im not for stopping all of germany. Just nazis. And if I see a nazi (Which the Daleks are allegories for) I shoot before it shoots me.

Humans do crappy stuff, and we should try to solve things peacefully. But by this point in time humans have the right to have arms pointing at the sky. Im not for nuking the solar system. But I am for killing mindless beings of death and destruction.

We have the right to bust out the weapons of mass destruction when they plan to destroy the entire planet over and over again.

Those that hurt us before should be treated with more hostility until proven innocent.

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And in this case the Daleks where part of the time war. Thats as bad as it gets.

[Androgeus]

Trying to save selfs from solar flare with fear of death. It was a hard choice to make. I wish they didn't have to do that.

I thought the point was that they didn't need to torture the whale, it was quite happy to save them.

[SuperPanda]

Alright, I guess we both have very different ideals in this kind of situation then. I prefer innocent until proven guilty and you've said you prefer guilty until proven innocent.

There isn't necessarily anything wrong with either view, both have their faults and both have their strengths. I loved Doctor Who originally because I had found a fun and brilliant hero-character whose ideals synced well with mine.

I still love the show for everything it is, but have begun liking Rory more than the Doctor lately. You on the other hand clearly disliked previous Doctor's to some extent because their ideals did not mesh with yours and the new direction fits better with the stories and heroes you prefer to see.

I personally dislike the moral ramifications of persecuting based on Guilty until proven innocent and you seem to dislike the risk of persecuting based on Innocent until proven guilty.

I'd discuss further the WWII, Nazi thing drawing in another contemporary force which committed similar, (and in some's views greater) evil acts, but forum rules prohibit real world conversations on that.

What I can say is that I would expect a higher number of exceptions in a military structure where committing "evil" was your duty than where it was your pleasure. So if I had a super duper time machine and all kinds of gismos and I went up against the foot soldiers of an "evil" empire... yes, I would probably offer those storm troopers a way out. I would give them the choice, because that's more important to me than my personal safety.

Now if its choose the foot soldier (who is probably being press ganged into service anyway) or the child he is pointing a gun at... then its do everything in my power to protect the child. But if the stakes appear to be my life or his, I hope I could be a good enough man to give him a chance to save himself. In many ways, like 9 did for Jack.

[TheArsenal]

Alright, I guess we both have very different ideals in this kind of situation then. I prefer innocent until proven guilty and you've said you prefer guilty until proven innocent.

Isnt it the same thing?

You Are innocent then prove yourself guilty

But Now your guilty until proven innocent.

You on the other hand clearly disliked previous Doctor's to some extent because their ideals did not mesh with yours and the new direction fits better with the stories and heroes you prefer to see.

Oh because thier previous ideals resulted in the deaths of so many (The time war being the biggest **** up). Not because of the stories. Im not even talking about killing. Just acting first. Just be prepared.

I'd discuss further the WWII, Nazi thing drawing in another contemporary force which committed similar, (and in some's views greater) evil acts, but forum rules prohibit real world conversations on that.

Oh yeah. Sorry about that. Just slipped my tounge sorry.

So if I had a super duper time machine and all kinds of gismos and I went up against the foot soldiers of an "evil" empire... yes, I would probably offer those storm troopers a way out.

Me too. Id probably stun them instead of killing them. Sounds like a good compramise.
But if it was earth Vs Alien I would fight.

Mostly its a "The Good of the many outwieghs the needs of the few" kind of thing with me. So killing the timelords saved the universe. And I just don't want to risk anymore. Give the Daleks a chance to surrender and then mass sweep them if they refuse.

But if the stakes appear to be my life or his, I hope I could be a good enough man to give him a chance to save himself. In many ways, like 9 did for Jack.

Well I hope that too.

[The Big Dice]

Mostly its a "The Good of the many outwieghs the needs of the few" kind of thing with me. So killing the timelords saved the universe. And I just don't want to risk anymore. Give the Daleks a chance to surrender and then mass sweep them if they refuse.

You do realise that the Time Lords started the Last Great Time War? They sent the Doctor back to the point in time where the Daleks originated, with the express intent of either wiping them out or tampering with their development to make them less aggressive.

All the Daleks did was defend themselves against a far more advanced and technological species. You could make a case that if the Time Lords hadn't sent the Doctor back to Skaro, the Daleks would never have realised that there was a time travelling faction that wanted to exterminate them.

[TheArsenal]

You could make a case that if the Time Lords hadn't sent the Doctor back to Skaro, the Daleks would never have realised that there was a time travelling faction that wanted to exterminate them.

Either way Daleks happen and kill stuff.

But if the Doctor killed them in the first place then no Daleks, No time war, and nobody dies. Its a Win-Win Situation.

[Kato]

Isnt it the same thing?

You Are innocent then prove yourself guilty

But Now your guilty until proven innocent.

If I may interfer: No, not at all. Your point, as I understand is, is thus:
'Dalek/Cybermen are evil. Thus you can kill them. You can not kill them if one/some of them have shown they want to change and be good (which may happen rarely or never)'

His point is:
'Unless the individual (Dalek/Cyberman/creature) has caused any harm or tried to do so is to be considered innocent and thus NOT to be mercilessly slaughtered.'


I'm not going to take sides in this just wanted to point that out if I'm correct.



On that subject, I always had a bit of an issue with Cybermen (and Borg for that matter) Yeah, they go over the top but the basic premise of a species that has to kill other sentient species to survive (and not extending it to the point where they slaughter civilizations for the Evulz) is interesting. What do you do with them? Slaughter them because they'd kill you otherwise or... dunno, give them sacrifices? Hunt them off and let them feed on species who can't defend themselves?



And at your last post... the Daleks lose.

[TheArsenal]

What do you do with them? Slaughter them because they'd kill you otherwise or... dunno, give them sacrifices? Hunt them off and let them feed on species who can't defend themselves?

I donno. Its either my family or thiers I guess.

Besides the Cybermen/ Bord kill because they think they have the right because they think they are superior to everybody else. Not because of survival.

And at your last post... the Daleks lose.

Ah, the race of pure hatred dies. The horror. Let us weep for these demons as they can no longer cause harm to other creatures.

[Kato]

I donno. Its either my family or thiers I guess.

Still doesn't answer whether you kill them to protect other races as well or just kepp them from killing you.

Besides the Cybermen/ Bord kill because they think they have the right because they think they are superior to everybody else. Not because of survival.

As I said, just the idea of a species that kills to survive. I'm aware the Cybermen and Borg are beyond that. Sorry if I didn't make it clear.

Ah, the race of pure hatred dies. The horror. Let us weep for these demons as they can no longer cause harm to other creatures.

Which brings us back to innocent until proven guiltyor otherwise. If there ever was a Dalek who deserved to live or the potential for a future race developing from the Daleks you kill them off as well. Sure, you could argue it's 'few vs many' but how many innocents are you ready to kill to protect others? 1 for 1?

[Mauve Shirt]

The few vs many argument is interesting. Not ALL Daleks, I'm sure, but the vast majority, are evil bastards who do nothing but hate and exterminate and deserve to be destroyed. Give individual Daleks a chance, wait until they kill the people you love before you kill them back.
The humans in Midnight, and the Torchwood people, act like *******s out of self interest and blow up aliens who may be a threat. Obviously the Doctor should work to exterminate the human race because of these few.

[TheArsenal]

Which brings us back to innocent until proven guiltyor otherwise. If there ever was a Dalek who deserved to live or the potential for a future race developing from the Daleks you kill them off as well. Sure, you could argue it's 'few vs many' but how many innocents are you ready to kill to protect others? 1 for 1?

Well we got a time machine to find out.

And the Daleks killed allot of humans and other races. I dont know the exact number (Ignoring the time war) but its a pretty good idea to kill them currently.

Its just that even the Daleks that ARE good say "Kill/ Change the daleks!". So whatever I guess.

I think I was happier not thinking to much into Dr.Who (The Daleks cannot build things because they lack limbs limber enough to move stuff around.)

[The Big Dice]

If I may interfer: No, not at all. Your point, as I understand is, is thus:
'Dalek/Cybermen are evil. Thus you can kill them. You can not kill them if one/some of them have shown they want to change and be good (which may happen rarely or never)'

If only the morality were that clear cut and simple.

If you wipe out a genocidal but highly intelligent species, what's the difference between you and them? That question is something the Doctor used to ask himself, but now he's lost it. Maybe that's part of Moffat's plan, maybe it's just him thinking differently about the central message of the show. I can't say for sure.

[TheArsenal]

If only the morality were that clear cut and simple.

Then Doctor who would be mostly about philosophy then:

"Who am I? I am the Doctor of understanding people? Or is the species slowly replacing emotions with roles like "Doctor" removing the need for names?

If you wipe out a genocidal but highly intelligent species, what's the difference between you and them?

That I did it so that they would stop killing my children after years of them doing so?

[The Big Dice]

Then Doctor who would be mostly about philosophy then:

"Who am I? I am the Doctor of understanding people? Or is the species slowly replacing emotions with roles like "Doctor" removing the need for names

You'd be surprised. Watch this. This is quite possibly the definitive statement of the Doctor's philosophy.

[TheArsenal]

You'd be surprised. Watch this. This is quite possibly the definitive statement of the Doctor's philosophy.

I was kidding. But it makes me wonder what would be if Dr who was a more exestentialist series.

In fact... Neon Dr Genisis who...Sounds catchy.

Edit:

OMG

n two Virgin Missing Adventures novels by Craig Hinton, the Cybermen become Cyberlords at some point in their history. They are mentioned in passing in Hinton's The Crystal Bucephalus, where the Cyberlord Hegemony is a peaceful future version of the Cybermen who have an empire in the Milky Way; their description was modelled after Banks's designs. In The Quantum Archangel, there are numerous unexplained references to the Cyberlords as an extremely advanced race. At one point, they are referred to as the Time Lords' greatest ally in the Millennium War, though because that war was supposed to have taken place a very long time before the modern era, it is unclear how this bit of Cyberhistory fits in or whether or not they have achieved advanced time travel capabilities. While not explicitly mentioned, Hinton may have adopted this idea from the aborted script for the Five Doctors by Robert Holmes (scriptwriter), which would have had the Cybermen adopting Time Lord DNA to achieve their higher state of being.

Which begs the question, was it worth it? So many dead...for a single advanced race to live....Probably not since only the mighty benifit from this.

[Mkhaiwati]

so to bring things back to the current season, I re-watched "The Lodger" yesterday and it raises a few questions about the necro-Tardis.

The doctor asks the computer program a few questions:State the nature of your emergency... And it replies it is a ship (it gives some details but I couldn't understand it) and that it has lost its crew. It requires a new pilot. After some wrangling, it leaves (without a pilot, still? I thought that was the problem.)

I gather from the episode the ship came from not of this earth. It could possibly be Silent in technology. Didn't the Vampires in Venice say they escaped their planet because of the Silence?

Anyway... it could have disappeared because it had a pilot (a Silent, who doesn't appear in the episode and they don't remember it.) If it wasn't created by the Silents, then it could have been captured by them and used for their own purposes as we say in the beginning of the season. or..... it was created by the Silence, and they use those ships to travel between worlds. We saw one in the Lodger and another different ship in the beginning of the season.

If the Silence saw how the ship interfered with the Tardis in the Lodger episode, they may have used it to destroy the Tardis at the end of last season using a necro-Tardis.

[CurlyKitGirl]

The Nu Who Trek continues. And now, to boldly go where many have gone before. [*cue TNG theme (I love that theme song so much)*]

'Blink' (Season Three, Episode Ten)
Same format as before.

Spoiler

Show

People, it's 'Blink'. One of the most famous episodes of all of Nu Who, and reputedly, one of the most terrifying. Alternatively: it's a Moffat story. Given the Moffat's stories in the previous two series, I am expecting a lot. By the by, as a mention now: generally if it's a Moffat episode, I will have seen it. I love Moffat!
Now, as I admitted last time, I've seen this before, a little over a year ago. However, I can honestly not remember much aside from the usual facts about the Angels, time is more confused than normal, and that this is a Doctor-Lite episode.
Now I've cleared my conscience; let's get terrified!
(If Megavideo ever bothers to load)
Oh, and yes, I'm about halfway through Marble Hornets as well. Watching some now while I wait for the episode to load up as a matter of fact. Stupid? Interesting? Fun? Creepy as all get? I'll let you know.
It's an abandoned house! And trespassing girls! At nght time! Cue Scooby Doo reference, please, choose your own. So the blonde girl's taking photographs of the inside of the abandoned house, is she an urban explorer or something? Because if you're doing something like that in the Whoniverse, you're going to get om nom nomm'd to death.
Blonde Chick notices some writing under the wallpaper, it reads "Beware." She peels more away. The music gets intense and dramatic. "The weeping angels. Oh, and duck. Really. Duck Sally Sparrow. Duck, now." She - presumably Sally Sparrow ducks, and someone lobs a pot at her! How rude. Seriously, who threw the pot at her? And how did the writing on the wall know who, what, when and why?
The orchestral sting ramps up the violins like we're in a shower in a 1950s Hitchcock film, and Sparrow looks out the window.
There's an angel pulling the 'see no evil' pose. The music is quiet, with some dim brass (horns perhaps) trumping away in the background. Surprisingly eerie music actually. Anyway, Sparrow, being a fairly bright chick, looks back to the writing; dude. The angel is weeping. Beware it!
Then she peels away even more wallpaper to reveal the message is "Love from the Doctor (1969?)" The paper covers up much of the final number.
TITLE! While that's running, this episode is multi-BAFTA award winning, it has a Hugo Award under its belt. And it only lost the Nebula Award for Best Script to Pan's Labyrinth - one of my favourite films of all time. Oh, and if you Google "blink", Wikipedia's entry for this episode is the third result. Not bad for such a common word. Oh yes, and in 2009 Doctor Who Magazine's poll listed this as the second-best Who serial ever. High accolades. Oh Moffat, you name in the title screen always does offer good things.
Sparrow goes to Cathy's house and - the Doctor is on TV. In sepia tones. Giving the monologue from the episode trailer. The music is high and discordant, ratcheting up some tension. In that same room are a lot of screen shots of this thing.
Some chick (Cathy) is woken by her mobile, and it's Sparrow ordering her to come have a cuppa. At one in the morning. On the one hand, part of me wants to mock Cathy for being in bed so early, but she might have work; on the other hand, I sympathise with her; and on the other hand: so. Sparrow is British, and her first inclination after getting home after experiencing something freaky and supernatural is to chat about it over a nice hot cuppa. How British. (I'm also saddened by the fact that Firefox according to FIrefox, 'cuppa' isn't a real word)
Anyway. There's a naked dude. Presumably Cathy's brother Larry. He's naked. He doesn't look all that bad actually. Nice that you can still see the Doctor on the tellybox in the background by the by. Larry is understandably a little put off, and Cathy apparently knew of this nude sleeping/walking around at home all along. Could have warned Sparrow eh?
Love this. 04.30 or so, the presence of the tea is like red alert on the Enterprise. Something serious is going down peeps. So the next day the "girl investigators" (what, like Nancy Drew? Cool) sneak back into the unsafe structure to look around. Honestly Sparrow, you survive an encounter with a Spooky Thing at a Spooky Place, you don't go back. Huh. "Sparrow and Nightingale" [...] "A bit ITV." What? Like Rosemary and Thyme? Sparrow has a point.
So Sparrow's a deep person because she's made sad by lurking around tumbledown buildings. She said so herself. The direction is quite crisp here, especially the lingering shot on the chandelier, and the oboe music in the background is very nice.
Cathy's eyeing the Angel in the garden with distaste, "not in my garden" she says with mild distaste; mmmm, it is a bit ostentatious. According to Sparrow "it's moved [...] since yesterday". The pair ponder the message. And then a jump scare bell ring! Cathy thinks it's a burglar, which is patently silly.
There's a guy in a suit asking to deliver a letter "on this date at this exact time" to Sparrow; and please could he have some photo identification to verify your claim please. Sparrow's wigged because yeah, he's a bugged-eyed man giving her a letter obviously older than she is.
Cut back to Cathy who is surprised by a musical sting! No one's in the room, or outside. The camera focuses on the angel as the . . . the Psycho strings (aka the Angel theme) play antagonistically. Cathy turn away, cut back to the Angel (07.16) and it's hands are lowered, mouth partially open. It's freaky. The expression on that face is downright creepy even discounting the fact that it's a moving statue. Cathy re-spies on Sparrow, and the Dude is making smalltalk while he looks at Sparrow's driving license. Cathy move the door back, and we see the Angel is right on the balcony along with its own stinger music.
Dude hands over the envelope, and Sparrow demands a name for the person who wrote it, it was "Catherine Wainright, but [...] prior to marriage she was called Cathy Nightingale". Sparrow looks disbelieving as her friend is clearly upstairs, lurking and spying.
Throughout all this we've had some camera-POV shots of the Angel sneaking up behind Cathy as she loiters half-in, half-out of the room; and where the [...] appears in the transcripted dialogue above, we cut to the Angel standing behind the door, arm outstretched. This is still powerful even on second or third viewing, I think it's the blank, yet somehow yearning face that does it. That and, you know, being a statue that moves.
Oh, these creepy Angels. So much better than those other moving statues that can be found in one of my favourite films, I can't explain how great my hate is for them, or enumerate my reasons - except that's a lie. I can. Just let it be known that, if faced with an Angel on one side, and those things on the other, I'd run straight for the Angel any time. ANY TIME.
But ignoring my hate there, there's a weird noise, Sparrow calls for Cathy, but no one answers. Because she's dead. Sparrow thinks this is all some sort of cruel joke set up by Cathy. The angel is now back in the garden, and now Cathy is in a field. A field in "Hull" apparently.
The Bug-Eyed Dude insists that Cathy was his grandmother, and considering the newspaper the Hull Man gives Cathy says 1920 (convenient dating machines, these newspapers aren't they), I think B-ED's telling the truth. So the Angel sends people back in time. Well, she's not dead at least.
Cathy died twenty years ago (in the present), and Cathy in the past freaks. I think I would too. Sparrow's a bit - a lot confused, saying this is "totally sick" and throwing the mementos of this man's grandmother and her best friend to the ground. Upstairs, there is no Cathy. There is however, an Angel in the room. Two in fact, and one's all suspicious with its forearm covering its eyes. The music here is sombre and - there's another Angel in the window.
Sparrow's breathing gets heavier, and she notices a key grasped in one Angel's hand. She goes to take it.
Hey. Peeps. Peeps. Did you notice that the Angels move when the camera is blocked by a character onscreen? And they don't move when we're watching, aka, not blinking. Don't you just love audience participation that can give people nightmares and statue phobias?!
And that Angel at 11.00 is not nice, it looks like it's frowning slightly, with those dead, empty eyes . . . I hate dolls.
Sparrow, the Angels are moving. When you block the - shadow! Oh thank God B-ED left, that Angel reached out towards you. The music is all electro-synth as she's looking around for B-ED, and as we walk away the Angel theme stings away, showing us the eerie white forms of Angels in the windows. Aaaaargh. Stalking statues.
In the coffee shop Cathy does a voiceover as she narrates her life. I like Ben. Cut to the graveyard, with all angels in! And Sparrow's being stalked by them. Why her above all others?
So Sparrow's left with the tak of telling Larry that his sister is dead-but-not-dead-not-really. So off to the DVD shop. Huh. His name's Lawrence. Lawrence Nightinga - Florence. Punny. Larry's rewatching the Doctor's TV show, it being paused, when it reactivates as Sparrow walks past.
Larry repauses it, and there's a moment of awkwardness as he covers his Area with a bowl. Sparrow can't tell Larry what's happened to his sister just yet, so she says Cathy's gone out of town, oh, and "she loves you". Larry reacts with bemusement. To be honest, I would too. I love my siblings lots, but I don't go around telling them that so baldly on an every day basis. That's weird.
Larry really should get a better tellybox or something if the things keeps unpausing on its own like that. This thing with the Doctor is an Easter egg, he's on seventeen different DVDs, and literally no one knows how he got there. No one.
"It's like we're hearing half a conversation" Larry remarks idly, before adding he'd like to hear the other half. Obvious plot point is obvious. Sort of. Larry is an internet nerd. He admits it. Nerd.
Hey! Technotreknobabble that fails utterly. Timey-wimey TV Tropes trope title go! And a lampshade is waved in front of our faces by Counter Guy "Go to the police you stupid woman! Why does nobody ever go to the police?!"
The music is all stingy, so she goes to the police. She admits to sounding mad, but her friend's gone missing over at "Wester Drumlins". Oh, and the stinger music tells us the angel statues on the church opposite the station are Angels. Cue rising intense music as we close in on Sparrow's rather pretty brown eyes. She blinks.
The Angels are gone. Sally looks over in surprise, decides he's "cracking up now", but she's not! The camera angle widens to show us the window is flanked by two Angels. The stinger's getting a bit repetitive now.
We get introduced to D.I. Billy Shipton. Not only is he handsome, but he has a hot accent. Clearly, he finds Sparrow attractive as he puts his busines on hold to how her a garage which is filled with cars what have been abandoned completely outside Wester Drumlins. The owners are gone.
The TARDIS! The Angels got the Doctor and Martha. Hehe, I like Shipton's lampshading of the TARDIS' fakeness. Shipton immediately asks Sparrow out on a drink.
Sparrow gets suspiscous, saying he's on duty, but the clever D.I. nicked off saying it was a family crisis. "Because life is short and you are hot." Billy is amazing. End of. He's got a great voice, he's witty, handsome, very nice. Hey, he's got a sparrow badge on his jacket! That's cute.
Sparrow says "maybe", and Sparrow gives him her phone number. It's "just a phone number." We then get a cute Freudian slip where Sparrow introduces herself as "Sally Shipton" (hey, sweetheart, in this case, perfectly understandable) and Billy grins. he has a lovely smile. After a bit of flirting he says he's definitely "going to phone you gorgeous girl", and I declare this couple instantly sweet and bucket loads of chemistry. Billy's clearly very happy about getting such a positive reaction from a girl he just met.
His happy face fades away when he sees four Angels gathering around the TARDIS, one of them inserting a key what it doesn't have in the lock. Yes, the stinger's there too.
Billy gets suspiscious and walks over to the Key Angel. Good thing we're here Billy or you'd be dead-back-in-time. The pensive oboe of close ups plays, and Billy blinks!
Sally's outside the station, with some pretty neat rock music, when we get a flashback to Billy's saying "ordinary Yale lock, but nothing fits" as she pulls out the lock. I like Sally. She's a smart cookie. Back inside the garage we see the TARDIS is gone and the door is wrenched half open.
And now we're with Billy, Martha and the Doctor in 1969! The Doctor says he's got the moon landing to look forward to, and Martha chimes in they went four times.
Wait . . . so there were five Doctors around in 1969? Maybe six. Where was One?Two in 1969? Huh. Maybe it was a version of Tennant that was in the space suit that killed Older!Eleven. That's one WMG that's certainly false.
So Martha's all snippy about being stuck TARDISless in 1969. They all got in 1969 because of the "touch of an Angel" - the only psychopaths in the universe that kill you nicely. Send you to the past and let you live to death.
Until the next time.
The Doctor has a "timney-wimey dectector. Goes 'ding' when there's stuff." It also boils eggs whether you want it to or not. I giggle at the thought of exploding hens. They're vicious beggars let me tell you.
And the Doctor knows of Sally Sparrow. Somehow.
Funny Face Time: 23.28 - the Doctor can be summed up as "Hey, I luve yousomucsh. 'AveIeva tol' youtha'?" Poor Drunk Doctor.
So Billy has to live the slow path to get the message to Sparrow. Who gets a phone call in the present asking her to meet him. At the hospital.
Billy's an old man now. He wakes and says "It was raining when we met."
Sally: "It's the same rain." Ouch.
Billy did get a Sally Shipton in the end, but not our Sally. Billy couldn't find her before this because if it did it would have torn a hole in space and time, destroying two-thirds of the universe. So, the cracks in the wall then?
Ah! Billy put the Easter egg on the seventeen DVDs. And he put them there because the Doctor asked him to.
Billy'll never know why and how all this came about. See, he's dying tonight. My lip begins to wibble. "Life is long, and you are hot." Only thing that kept him going. Curse that oboe! And Billy's voice when he asks, brokenly, how all this happened. Billy has until the rain stops.
Next shot, the rain's stopped. I'm tearing up, and given the extreme soft focus of the camera, so is it. Damnation Billy, you were only onscreen for what? Six or seven minutes. Don't make me cry for such a short, wonderful character!
These DVDs with the Easter egg on are all the DVDs Sally own, and Larry, like myself, is shocked at such a thing.
Things are going down now peeps. There was angry, determined music as Sally stormed out of the hospital ward. And now the two main characters are gathered at Wester Drumlins (Larry is very right when he remarks this is "Scooby Doo's house").
Time for wibbly wobbly conversations across time. Not gong to bother transcribing it. Larry has one already. Martha sounds all whiny when she buts in, can't say I disagree. But still.
Hey. Logic. The Doctor knows what to say because Larry's writing down what Sally's saying to fill in the gaps in the transcribe.
Hehe. The tape knew you would say all of that. And Larry's such a nerd. Not only does he know shorthand, but he's "written tonnes" about what 'look to your left' could mean. He thinks politics. Larry's actually the reason Sally looks left.
"This will explode the egg forums." Adorkable sad sack.
The next couple lines sum up this plot excellently. The Doctor got the transcript "from the future" (as far as Sally is concerned), to which Sally responds "You're reading aloud from a transcript of a conversation you're still having."
Hee. "The Angels have the phone box." Funny line. I want a t-shirt with that on it, like what Larry has. Cue some exposition about the Angels. They don't exist when they're being observed. Also, stone can't be killed. But sledgehammer? Eh. Indestructible rock, I've seen weirder. Human-Daleks for one thing. Scorpion-things that can shapeshift into a Boris Johnson lookalike. Trampoline Face.
And this is interspersed with shots of an Angel outside. Sally says not to take his [Larry's] eyes off the statue. Good idea Sally. The Doctor begins speaking more urgently as the music gets tenser, the transcript's run out.
We get the full version of the trailer plead about not blinking. The video ends.
Larry's not looking at the statue.
AAAAHHHH!
ANGRY FACE!
VERY ANGRY, NASTY DEMON FACE!
I'll be seeing that in my dreams. That or some horrific amalgam of that and the Operator. Argh. If the Angel doesn't have a face, it doesn't have to hide from other Angels.
Mummy.
And there are three more. Larry's stuck looking at that ANGRY one. Larry's too scared to blink. Good thing. Freakin' clawed hands and demon nails, fangs and face.
They're locked in. They're after the TARDIS key. Sally won't give them the key, Larry starts bricking it because he can only look in one direction at a time, he needs to blink, and there are four of them. He really wants Sally to give them the key.
The music gets all . . . warbly, but in a bad way, as we start doing to zoom in on Larry's eyes. Larry starts mumbling and pleading to God.
[EXPLETIVE] Larry looked away and 34.44 will be seeing me in my nightmares tonight. It moved several yard in about a second! And the face is very angry, and those arms are reaching for his neck. These are not nice psychopaths any more.
I'm guessing it's because they want the key. A lot.
Larry's got brown knickers now, and we have a stare off between a statue and a veyr, very terrified Larry. The music starts trying to intimidate us by imitating the THX VVVVWWWWWWOOOOOMMMMM thing, and my God if it isn't scary and tense as all kinds of things.
The other three are in the cellar, and they're not moving as long as people are looking. Larry's Angel is in the cellar now too. And making the light go out.
It's turning out the light.
And people can't see in the dark.
Don't know why we haven't seen this skill before, but it's fekkin' terrifying because now you get strobe-like imitations of the Angels running and then freezing and their actions and faces and this is very, very scary. Extra props to Murray for the music here, it damn well turns the terror of the scene up to eleven, then fifteen, then twenty, and then breaks the knob off.
I don't like it.
And they only just barely manage to get inside the TARDIS in time! With all the Angels frozen around the TARDIS. Holo-Dcotor (please state the nature of your emergency) basically tells them the DVD is a one-use only time travel key. And then the Angels start rocking the TARDIS backwards and forwards!
If you're thinking this isn't good, I'm thinking you're a master of understatement.
But it gets better! The TARDIS vworp-vworp-vworps away, leaving Sally and Larry stuck in between four extremely unhappy psychopaths who can't be killed and look like unholy demons from Hell.
The screams from the actors here are honestly fantastic, filled to the brim with terror bordering on hysteria. Can't blame them.
Ha! The Angels are frozen looking at each other!
Woo. Go . . . Doctor? Go Doctor! Larry then says "They're never going to move again". Yeah. Right. Until the lights go out, or someone finds them and does something stupid.
A year later Sally and Larry are working in the DVD-***-bookshop, and Sally's reminiscing about the adventure. Larry says it's over, but Sally's asking the right questions: how did he get hold of the information?
Larry wants to date, but "we just run a shop together". harsh. Maybe she's still pining for Billy? So Larry goes to get milk.
Then Martha and the Doctor pull up in a taxi wearing bows and arrows. There's a "thing. Very important that we stop it. [...]Well, four things. Four things and a lizard." He really can't stop talking can he? So Sally's obviously run up to him, recognising the Doctor and Martha, heh, he's right when he says things don't always happen in the right order. Just wait until Moffat gets to write again.
Sally realises that the Angels are in the Doctor's future, so Sally's the one who gives the information to the Doctor. But she only survived because the Doctor left all that behind, setting things up so she can survive; but the Doctor only knows what to do because Sally - and then we all stop thinking before we give ourselves a nosebleed. We'll never figure out exactly who, when or how this loop originally got started.
Love this bit. The Doctor's got to go stop a migration of . . . noodle incidents, but he still pauses to ask her name, and then says "Good to meet you Sally Sparrow." See, this is the Doctor. He bumps into people so fleetingly, but he's always pleased to meet them, and more than likely, will always remember them. Such fleeting moments scattered all across time, and he does his best to remember all of the people he's met like this.
Larry then shows up, stunned, and Sally takes his hand. Triumphant orchestral music soars as we realise they're getting a relationship upgrade, and all is well and good.
Happily ever after. Cue the previe -
Feck. Statues. Everywhere. Intercut with the Doctor's advice. Stautes. Everywhere. Don't. Blink. Good luck. He blinks.
Oh dearie me.
Moffat, you couldn't leave us on an Everybody Lives moment? Or a deeply bittersweet romance in revolutionary France? You had to provide nightmare fuel for several generations.

Preview thoughts: They're going to the end of the universe. SIR DEREK FREAKING JACOBI! Dudes, Cadfael is all up in my Doctor Who! Captain Jack is here who rabid humans. But who cares?! DEREK JACOBI! IN DOCTOR WHO!
Let me restate that for you: Sir Derek Jacobi is in my Doctor Who. Screw the rest of the plot.
This gets an instant ten out of ten, and easily, by far and away Sir Derek Jacobi is the best actor. I don't even care if he's only a minor famous name to show up for five minutes before dying. He wins. Totality.
I honestly don't care about the rest of the show.

Best Moment:
Can I cheat and say the whole thing? So many stand out in my mind. All of Billy's moments, the bit with the Counter Guy lampshading silly plot holes, the entire time travel paradox. The Angels being scary. The end thirty seconds.

Worst Moment:
Uummm. The brief scene of the Doc - no, the lines are funny. Ah! The short scene where Sally and Cathy are sneaking into Wester Drumlin together.

Best Special Effect:
The Angels. Those are real actresses in there. Yeah. Those are people. Instant win.

Worst Special Effect:
There are so few special effects in this episode that actually qualify as special effects. I'd say the glowy DVD key, because it looks cheesier than the timey-wimey detector, which is obviously meant to be cheesy.

Best Actor:
Sally Sparrow. She's the main character. She carries the episode. She's strong, funny, but not stoic, she's very emotional, but in a quiet, gentle way. I really love her.
Apparently the actress went on to become a seriously famous film star after this. I can see why.

Worst Actor:
Um. Martha only has two or three lines, none of them are especially memorable. She doesn't even have one note for her character to play in this episode.

Number of Time MtM Obviously Hits on the Doctor Or Their 'Romance' Is Mentioned:
None!

Number of Lampshades Hung:
Five.

Thoughts overall?
It is a bad idea to intersperse watching 'Blink' with Marble Hornets after having watched the latter on and off over the past two days.
Especially when: there are houses that look oddly similar to Wester Drumlins nearby; when you live in a city that is littered with more statuary (including gargoyles, chimeras, grotesques, ordinary statues (some of which I know move) and busts) than you can shake a stick at; and when said city often has men in black/white tie suits walking around it, especially in the evenings and night times.
Jumpiness and paranoia await. Argh. And there are trees outside the bathroom window.
But honestly?
This episode deserves all the praise it's received. My only real complaints are that the use of the stinger is too obvious, and could have been better if it were more subtly done. And one is left to wonder how the Doctor encountered the Angels in the first place given those four are frozen for whoever knows how long, and aren't likely to find the Doctor again.
What else?
Nothing really. Scripting was tightly done with excellent characters, everyone felt well rounded, and you got the feeling there was more to everyone than just their job/plot convenience etc. By that I mean that, even though Billy was onscreen for about five minutes, it was very well utilised, so he was more than just a D.I and you really felt for him. Even Larry the internet nerd wasn't just your stereotyped nerd, he was pretty um . . . dorky as most nerds are, but sweet.
This was a fantastic Doctor-lite episode in that the Doctor was still central to the episode even though he wasn't actually there; music was very atmospheric, if a little overdone at times. The directing was mostly fantastic, and the monsters are honestly terrifying, ranging from concept to design.
That little montage at the end is pure spite on behalf of Moffat who simply wishes to make people afraid of going outside. Especially in Britain's larger or older cities where you honestly can't go ten minutes in a city centre without seeing a statue.
Long story short, waaaaaaaay too late: it's a Moffat episode. I love Moffat. I love this episode.
Now to go try to not have nightmares of the Weeping Slender Angels or something.

[Szilard]

Did you say you wanted a The Angels Have The Phonebox t-shirt?

[Dienekes]

Preview thoughts: They're going to the end of the universe. SIR DEREK FREAKING JACOBI! Dudes, Cadfael is all up in my Doctor Who! Captain Jack is here who rabid humans. But who cares?! DEREK JACOBI! IN DOCTOR WHO!
Let me restate that for you: Sir Derek Jacobi is in my Doctor Who. Screw the rest of the plot.
This gets an instant ten out of ten, and easily, by far and away Sir Derek Jacobi is the best actor. I don't even care if he's only a minor famous name to show up for five minutes before dying. He wins. Totality.
I honestly don't care about the rest of the show.

This was pretty much my reaction as well, except I forgot his name and so kept referring to him as Claudius.