Relationship Woes and Advice 23: Answer Unclear, Try Again

[Morph Bark]

Welcome to the Relationship Woes and Advice thread, home of any questions you may have: romantic or familial or friendship, we'll answer (or try to answer) them all. Five years old and growing. This isn't a trade economy- feel free to ask if you have a question, even if you haven't ever given advice and don't intend to start. We won't stone you or ignore you or anything. All we ask is to know how a situation ends up, either in this thread or through a PM.

Here are the basics.

The biggest bit of advice I've seen bandied around is the truest- no matter what else is true about the situation, always be yourself. It's no good to act like someone else, because eventually the true you will come out and the other person will not be happy you hid that from them.

Rules Of Relationships:
#1- Communicate. If you can't talk with your partner, it's probably not going to work.

#2- Be yourself. Admittedly, if you have some really bad habits you should probably try to change them, but be honest about who you are. No one wants to find out they were loving a lie, and no one likes to live a lie (...well, normally).

#3- Accept your partner. In mine, and other people's, experience you have to be able to accept your partner as they are, because they probably won't be able to change. Also, don't change drastically for someone. I've tried it, my friends have tried it, it doesn't work and it doesn't end pretty.

#4- Hints. Do. Not. Work. Or they might, but the chance of that happening is limited. Some people are like me and just utterly oblivious unless it is blatantly stated, others are (also like me) and don't want to assume, and yet others don't care. You won't know which they belong to unless you actually spell out your intentions and/or feelings. I would consider this a corrolery to Rule #1 except that it comes up so often. Do NOT assume someone should know something from hints. Hints, by nature, are subtle. Clue Bats/Crow Bars/Mack Trucks are not. Try hitting them with one of those. ;) (No, not literally. I mean be upfront if you are trying to get someone to know something.)

#5- Don't be desperate. You don't need to be in a relationship and the healthiest mindset is one where you are happy as you are, even if you do not have a significant other. Don't stay in a relationship that isn't good if you aren't happy, just because you want someone. This is detrimental to both parties in the long (and sometimes short) run.

#6- Be a couple. Set aside some time every week to be together. Just an hour, if nothing else, where it's JUST you two. No computer, no others. Just the couple.

#6.5- Maintain the relationship. Ask your partner every now and then how they are feeling, if they feel like the relationship is still going in a good direction, etc. Also, make sure you don't hide it if you have an issue with your partner or a relationship. The only way it can change is if you talk about it.

#7- Let your boundaries be known. This goes for everything from intimacy to what you consider cheating to any other thing you can think of. Pretty much if it's something that would possibly upset you or your partner, let them know BEFORE a problem arises. An example would be letting your partner know you consider kissing cheating. They very well might think only intercourse is cheating. Having that known before anything potentially happens is a good thing.

#8- Know the signs of an abusive relationship. Both men and women can be abusers, and if you recognize the signs early on you are more likely to be able to get out of a bad situation before it gets out of hand. It's never easy, but if you know the general red flags, it can help you to avoid the situation.

A list - courtesy of Pheehelm

RULES. YOU READ THESE.
-Anything of a sexual nature, please PM to either myself or one of the regular advice givers. If you just want general opinions post something like: "I have this problem, but it is not board appropriate. Could one of you guys PM me?" I know from experience that you will in fact get help.

-KEEP IT NICE. Disagreements are bound to happen, but please don't be rude.

-Joking is all fun and games, within reasons. Please do not get derogatory.

-We are not allowed to dispense advice that should be handled by a professional, including psychological or medical advice.

I decided to put this up because, evidently, it was not apparent that these should be followed. I do not want this thread to be scrubbed again, and we were blessed to get it back.

So please - play nice, and if you're not comfortable talking about things over the open board, PM one of the regulars (too many to mention), and I'm sure they'll be willing to lend an ear - or if you're not sure who to PM, post asking for someone to PM you, and you'll soon get a response

-Syka

Previous thread: Relationship Woes and Advice 22: In Which Two Problems Prevent Each Others' Solution

We have a sister thread in Personal Woes and Advice, which is suited for any woes you may have with things unrelated to relationships.

[Marillion]

Definitely not a line I would personally choose... depends on the tone you put it in, if it is laid back and casual then maybe with a little bit of charm it would come off as humourous; however, other than that it comes off as not confident which wouldn't help.

Well yeah, I wasn't going to say it all depressed and whiny. It's just that my sense of humour is rather self-deprecating at times, not because I'm insecure, but I like people to know I can laugh at myself.

[Morph Bark]

In other news, I just realized that my pride is one of my greatest hurdles when it comes to relationships.

[Coidzor]

Quick question:

"Hey, this might be a little awkward, but [friend] over there won't leave me alone until I'm officially shot down. So, would you like to join me for coffee some time?"

Acceptable? Endearing? Pathetic?

Mostly the last one by my understanding. Depends upon whether you know them and what the prior relationship is, though.

In other news, I just realized that my pride is one of my greatest hurdles when it comes to relationships.

In terms of viewing others as not good enough for you or the interpersonal friction that being prideful can bring?

[Serpentine]

Marillion: I don't think it's TOO bad, as long as it's carried on the back of self-effacing confidence. Replacing "am officially shot down" with "at least give it a shot" or something like that is probably safer, unless you think you can pull off reverse psychology...

[Reluctance]

Quick question:

"Hey, this might be a little awkward, but [friend] over there won't leave me alone until I'm officially shot down. So, would you like to join me for coffee some time?"

Acceptable? Endearing? Pathetic?

Depends entirely on context. I'd drop the opening "this might be a little awkward", as it frames things negatively for you, but it's a low-cost opener.

Also low-return, and I strongly advise against using it more than once around the same people. But if it helps you realize that asking a girl out is NBD than I fully support it as a drive-by move.

In other news, I just realized that my pride is one of my greatest hurdles when it comes to relationships.

Yeeeaaahhh. If you're going for relationships, Lust is a much better sin. More fun, too. (Gluttony can also be fun, but tends to inhibit your ability to find relationships.)

[Triscuitable]

Okay, I'm in something of a bind. I'll explain it in bullet points.

• I met this girl. She's really nice, and I like her. I'm very certain that because of how she introduced herself to me, that she likes me (especially considering I'm rather quiet in class).
• A friend of mine introduced me to this guy. He's really nice, and I like him. He also likes me.
• I've been friends with this girl for a while, but only just got to know this guy.
• I haven't had a chance to hang out with the girl, but the guy has already asked me if I wanted to.
• I've got some rather complicated gender-identity issues, but this girl is straight and the guy is gay.
• The girl and I share a lot of hobbies. The guy and I share a few interests, though he leans closer to anime and the like, while I prefer games and comics.
• The guy smokes. This is actually a big deal for me, because smoking is generally quite gross for me, and I don't like what it does to people. It also really turns me away from him, despite his much nicer traits.

What in the HELL do I do?

[celtois]

@ Triscuitable: Follow your heart.

All sarcasm aside frankly I don't think any of us can tell you what to decide, you'll have to figure it out for yourself.

I can tell you what I'd suggest you do in your situation. But without being you it might be totally off. I can also tell you what the easy thing to do is, and why is probably isn't the best way to go. But again it's all subjective and what matters most is what would make you happy. (Anyway, if you aren't dissuaded from reading my thoughts after that they are in the spoiler)

Spoiler

Show

What I would suggest, from what is strictly my point of view.
-Hang out with both of them in non-datey settings see who you click with romantically its important.
-The more hobbies you share with someone the more things you can do together, the more things you can do together the more fun life is. That said, its fun to learn new things, maybe try and see if you like some of the stuff the guy is into.
-If smoking is a big turn off for you, don't date a smoker. Because you will have to put up with it, and the taste of cigarettes when you kiss, yuck!
-Once you've got a chance to hang out with them each a bit you'l probably have a better feeling of if you click and who with. A person can be awesome but it really needs that spark.
-Once you know, ask them out, and hey either way you just gained two awesome friends.
-Either way you should hang out with the girl and the guy, and don't wait for either of them to ask (though one of them already has so he's out) ask the girl to hang out sometime in a friendly environment. Maybe invite her to a gathering of friend were you drink tea and play cards or some other low-stress activity that is conducive to talking

My word of caution is don't date someone just because its convenient, I've done it before, someone asked me out I said yes. We didn't click at all. Dating won't necessarily be easy but make sure you are always engaged in your relationship, and not just going through the motions.
-

[arguskos]

Ok, so, I gotta tell you guys, communication? It's pretty rad. Man, I like it when my girl and I talk about our relationship. We've already cut off a few problems at the pass by talking about things. Everyone, talk to your lady/man/space lobster/robot overlord! It's awesome.

EDIT: Triscuitable, I'd suggest going with your gut. If the smoking is a serious issue (though I kinda think it shouldn't be, but that's just me) then don't go with the guy. Seems to make sense to me.

[Morph Bark]

In terms of viewing others as not good enough for you or the interpersonal friction that being prideful can bring?

The latter. Though often it's less interpersonal and more... intrapersonal? Like, in the sense that I end up trying not to act on it, but still end up feeling bad one way or another. The current thing is that I put out an invitation to do something together this week since she's got a week off school, then didn't get a reply until last night while I was packing my things as I'm going away this weekend, even telling me she specially asked for a day off work. Since I still needed to pack some things and would have to leave early in the afternoon, it'd seem logical that I'd have to decline right? Sure, but the first thought I got was "you're only replying to that now? Yeah, no". That kind of pride bulldung. :I

It wasn't until my second thought that I was like "wait, she took that day off work for me? Da wut?" So I made sure I finished up nearly all of my packing before I went to bed. Then for some (unrelated) reason, I end up not sleeping at all all night. Karma?

Yeeeaaahhh. If you're going for relationships, Lust is a much better sin. More fun, too. (Gluttony can also be fun, but tends to inhibit your ability to find relationships.)

When it comes to the seven deadly sins, Lust, Sloth and Gluttony are my big ones. My Pride mainly seems to play up as a kind of defense mechanism, which can be great when someone is trying to embarrass you, but bad when you are in a relationship with someone or want to get to that point. Envy is much, much, much worse though. As is Wrath (especially when directed against that person, obviously).

Ok, so, I gotta tell you guys, communication? It's pretty rad. Man, I like it when my girl and I talk about our relationship. We've already cut off a few problems at the pass by talking about things. Everyone, talk to your lady/man/space lobster/robot overlord! It's awesome.

Drat, I've been found out!

(I do really agree with you though.)

[dehro]

Okay, I'm in something of a bind. I'll explain it in bullet points.

• I met this girl. She's really nice, and I like her. I'm very certain that because of how she introduced herself to me, that she likes me (especially considering I'm rather quiet in class).
• A friend of mine introduced me to this guy. He's really nice, and I like him. He also likes me.
• I've been friends with this girl for a while, but only just got to know this guy.
• I haven't had a chance to hang out with the girl, but the guy has already asked me if I wanted to.
• I've got some rather complicated gender-identity issues, but this girl is straight and the guy is gay.
• The girl and I share a lot of hobbies. The guy and I share a few interests, though he leans closer to anime and the like, while I prefer games and comics.
• The guy smokes. This is actually a big deal for me, because smoking is generally quite gross for me, and I don't like what it does to people. It also really turns me away from him, despite his much nicer traits.

What in the HELL do I do?

you're allowed to hang out with people irrespective of their intentions (and yours). until it comes to smoochie time, you owe neither of them an explanation.
in fact, hanging out/dating will allow you to both wrap your head around your feelings and get to know both a little better.
depending on how direct and/or intimate they are as friends or as buddies, you may want to clarify your doubts/position. for the moment however, just hang out with them and see what happens. you might get to smoochie time and find that you can't or don't want to ever again..

also, being actively chased by 2 people is a big boost in self esteem.. you don't get those often enough in life..so..don't close the door to them.

[Morph Bark]

To add to the above poster's advice, I'd say hang out with both, and learn if the girl actually likes you (it seeming obvious might not do it). Since I dunno more about your gender identity issues, I can't help with how that figures into this, but if the girl actually does like you for me the choice would be obvious. (That is, if I were bisexual. Since I'm straight the answer is obvious even before I'd know whether a girl likes me or not.)

[Rawhide]

Okay, I'm in something of a bind. I'll explain it in bullet points.

• I met this girl. She's really nice, and I like her. I'm very certain that because of how she introduced herself to me, that she likes me (especially considering I'm rather quiet in class).
• A friend of mine introduced me to this guy. He's really nice, and I like him. He also likes me.
• I've been friends with this girl for a while, but only just got to know this guy.
• I haven't had a chance to hang out with the girl, but the guy has already asked me if I wanted to.
• I've got some rather complicated gender-identity issues, but this girl is straight and the guy is gay.
• The girl and I share a lot of hobbies. The guy and I share a few interests, though he leans closer to anime and the like, while I prefer games and comics.
• The guy smokes. This is actually a big deal for me, because smoking is generally quite gross for me, and I don't like what it does to people. It also really turns me away from him, despite his much nicer traits.

What in the HELL do I do?

I can't speak for you, but if I was in your position (except, make the guy a woman, as I'm straight), I'd go for option number one (the first girl you mentioned).

[bluewind95]

If smoking is a big deal, then I'd suggest against dating the smoker.

Arguskos:

I don't understand why smoking shouldn't be a big deal. For some of us, it really, really is. I, for one, would never date a smoker, and that is a 100% non-negotiable thing.

[The Succubus]

If smoking is a big deal, then I'd suggest against dating the smoker.

Arguskos:

I don't understand why smoking shouldn't be a big deal. For some of us, it really, really is. I, for one, would never date a smoker, and that is a 100% non-negotiable thing.

Kind of curious from an academic perspective - how would you feel about dating someone that was making a genuine effort to quit smoking?

[bluewind95]

Kind of curious from an academic perspective - how would you feel about dating someone that was making a genuine effort to quit smoking?

Not till they quit.

Edit: And if they started back up on that, well, that'd be my goodbye.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Not till they quit.

Edit: And if they started back up on that, well, that'd be my goodbye.

I'm pretty much like this too. I tried dating a smoker who was trying to quit. Instead she just was hiding it from me, because she knew I didn't like it at all. If a girl is making an effort to quit smoking, I don't want her quiting for someone else other than herself. If she's quitting to have the relationship...it's not for the right reasons. All that does is seed resentment toward the person wanting them to stop. It can be a contributor to stopping, but it can't be the incentive.

Either way, cigarette smells make me ill. Like vomitty. My mom is actually legit allergic to the stuff and I have two 8 year old sisters that don't need that in their lungs, so its pretty much a requirement.

I'm currently dating someone who has smoked in the past but quit. (yes we're now facebook official!)

Also...in regards to last thread, I believe this was mentioned...

I'd say its more of - mutually understood liking with the intention of pursuing a actual relationship.

I like to call it a MULWIPAR.

I think we need to officially add this to the glossary at the start of the thread.

If I make the next thread, I'll be doing just that.

I guess my biggest question is...Where is this "official glossary"?

[dehro]

it's not exactly a dealbreaker for me..but I have been known to pull a bit of a face when smooching a girl that had just had a cigarette..
it's just a very pervasive scent that isn't all to pleasant...
for the record, I have smoked for about a year, back in high-school

[Pheehelm]

We don't really have an RWA official glossary, just the recurring rules OP, and the only other RWA-specific term I know of is "gedonkle" which hasn't been used in forever anyways.

[Heliomance]

I need to get better at reading people. That's two girls in quick succession I've started chatting with, hit it off with, thought I was reading interest and mild flirtation, added on Facebook and discovered are taken already. Most irritating

[TheWombatOfDoom]

We don't really have an RWA official glossary, just the recurring rules OP, and the only other RWA-specific term I know of is "gedonkle" which hasn't been used in forever anyways.

Hmm...that's strange for them to say then...aw well.

[arguskos]

If smoking is a big deal, then I'd suggest against dating the smoker.

arguskos:

I don't understand why smoking shouldn't be a big deal. For some of us, it really, really is. I, for one, would never date a smoker, and that is a 100% non-negotiable thing.

For full disclosure, I've got a severe form of cough-variant asthma and if I ever smoked, I likely could suffer some terrible health problems.

I'm dating a smoker. She and I have an agreement of sorts. When we're together, she smokes infrequently and we have little physical contact right after she smokes, but after 30 or so minutes and the smell has dissipated, we're close again.

Just because I hate that she smokes and that it actually can affect my health doesn't mean that I'm willing to throw my hands up and say "this one thing is enough to torpedo any chance of a relationship you and I could ever have". I'm willing to make a compromise on it and so is she.

I'll let you and everyone else make their own decisions, but I have to say, discarding a potentially fantastic relationship because of a single habit they have that you personally don't like seems like a poor decision. Still, it's your call. I just think that you should weigh the situation carefully.

[bluewind95]

I'm more thinking long-term here. Can I live with a smoker? No, I can't. Like you, I have a pretty bad cough-asthma... and also a very severe allergy to cigarette smoke. Mine doesn't only trigger for a bit after the smoking. It can trigger for hours afterwards, usually until the smoker takes a shower or something. I also find the scent abhorrent, and not only the smoke, but the scent that lingers in their skin and the things they touch. The nicotine causes the allergy too, as even an e-cig will leave me coughing for ages (only when nicotine is used in the solution). Having lived with a sibling that smoked (and not even in the house!), I know that even if they don't smoke in my presence, it does impact things very negatively. Smokers stink, and not only when they're smoking. The stench lingers in their skin, in their sweat: I feel like vomiting at the scent of their body odour. The things they touch have to be washed to rub away the stench, too. Their breath makes me want to gag. I can't even get close to the bedsheets or clothes of a smoker as their disgusting body odour is absorbed into them. Heck, I find it hard to even enter their room.

I can't have a relationship with someone who disgusts me so much I can't even get close to them. There is simply no way any such relationship could be "fantastic". It's not "just a habit". It's something that impacts pretty much everything. Some people may be able to stand it. I, personally, can't.

[Reluctance]

Okay, I'm in something of a bind. I'll explain it in bullet points.

• I met this girl. She's really nice, and I like her. I'm very certain that because of how she introduced herself to me, that she likes me (especially considering I'm rather quiet in class).
• A friend of mine introduced me to this guy. He's really nice, and I like him. He also likes me.
• I've been friends with this girl for a while, but only just got to know this guy.
• I haven't had a chance to hang out with the girl, but the guy has already asked me if I wanted to.
• I've got some rather complicated gender-identity issues, but this girl is straight and the guy is gay.
• The girl and I share a lot of hobbies. The guy and I share a few interests, though he leans closer to anime and the like, while I prefer games and comics.
• The guy smokes. This is actually a big deal for me, because smoking is generally quite gross for me, and I don't like what it does to people. It also really turns me away from him, despite his much nicer traits.

What in the HELL do I do?

The dude.

There's a colloquial expression that's used to mean "you really need to loosen up", and you really do need that to help you loosen up. The person who's making an active effort is the person who's more likely to help you with that.

I need to get better at reading people. That's two girls in quick succession I've started chatting with, hit it off with, thought I was reading interest and mild flirtation, added on Facebook and discovered are taken already. Most irritating

FWIW, you're about normal at reading people. Flirting is a way for people to feel wanted and attractive, and those are good things, so people will flirt. Still, since they don't want to jeopardize things with the guys they have properly tied down, they flirt with "safe" guys. Gay, too far, etc. (How far do said gals live from you, BTW?)

I mean, you'll have to learn the difference between flirting With Intent and flirting just for fun, but you shouldn't feel like you're missing basics just because you can't always catch that slippery definition.

[Coidzor]

Smoking is just one of many reasons that I'm annoyed at life for the last two or three admirers it threw my way. I cannot be around people while they smoke except for when hookahs which are more of a steam thing anyway. When I have given into peer pressure and either associated with smokers while they were smoking without standing a fair distance away and upwind or even tried a puff from a cigar I've become ill for days afterwards, often with the sinus infection from hell.

I kind of hate my lungs and sinuses, if you haven't gathered by now.

[noparlpf]

I've never tried smoking myself. (I tried patches once out of curiosity as it's a fairly tame drug, didn't like it.) I also have mild asthma, so there's that. And marijuana fumes give me a headache. (I live right by the fire escape, and that's where all the kids step out to smoke, even though that's against like, three different rules, but who even pays attention to rules. So it's either leave my window open and deal with that, or leave it shut and stifle.) I don't mind the smell of either on their own in small amounts, but the smoke bugs me. I doubt I could live with a smoker.

[Heliomance]

The dude.

There's a colloquial expression that's used to mean "you really need to loosen up", and you really do need that to help you loosen up. The person who's making an active effort is the person who's more likely to help you with that.

IMO, that's frankly terrible advice. No, you don't need to "get laid" in order to loosen up, and if you're after an actual relationship, who has the greater chance of providing immediate sex is definitely not the top priority, and IMO not very high on the list at all.

FWIW, you're about normal at reading people. Flirting is a way for people to feel wanted and attractive, and those are good things, so people will flirt. Still, since they don't want to jeopardize things with the guys they have properly tied down, they flirt with "safe" guys. Gay, too far, etc. (How far do said gals live from you, BTW?)

I mean, you'll have to learn the difference between flirting With Intent and flirting just for fun, but you shouldn't feel like you're missing basics just because you can't always catch that slippery definition.

I'm not gay, and they both go to the same university as me, so neither of your ideas applies.

[Triscuitable]

The dude.

There's a colloquial expression that's used to mean "you really need to loosen up", and you really do need that to help you loosen up. The person who's making an active effort is the person who's more likely to help you with that.

The problem being I don't like smoking. I've always had issues with drugs, be they legal or not. While I don't mind my friends smoking, I do have an issue with dating someone who does.

That, and I'm not interested in sex. Relationships generally go back to sex. Me? I'm not exactly interested in that sort of thing. That can cause a lot of fissures in a relationship where one person isn't getting what they want out of it, aside from the companionship.

I guess it's just a case of me not wanting to be in a relationship with him. He's a great guy, but the more time I spent with him today, the more I realized he was less of a person I want to date, and more of a person I want to be a really good friend with.

[Serpentine]

I hate to be the one to leap to Reluctance's defence, but...

re. The first bit: I don't think he's talking about sex. At least, he never mentions it. Just "loosening up" and that the person who's taking the initiative might be the better candidate to that end. I have no particular opinion on that matter; I think Trisc should just relax, enjoy the attention and see where it all goes - there's not much reason to leap to make a be-all end-all decision right away.

re. The second bit: except for the "safe" part, I think he's pretty much spot on. Flirting is fun, and even taken girls can do it. Taken people can even be interested in others - it's only until they act upon it (and I wouldn't consider normal flirting to be acting), there's no problem. So yeah, you could be right about the flirting and signs of interest, it's not incompatible with them being taken.

[Heliomance]

He mentions a colloquial expression commonly used to mean "you need to loosen up" - the one that immediately springs to mind is "you need to get laid".