[3.5] Favorite Obscure Prc, Feat, Spell etc.

[Zaq]

I remain enchanted by Dream of Insight (EDIT: It's actually Dream of Instinct) in Secrets of Sarlona. Costs a prerequisite feat, but basically a certain number of times per day (scales slowly with HD), you take a full-round action to set up, and then you spend that setup on a +10 [!] insight bonus to an arbitrary skill check.

Not every skill-related problem can be solved with a single check and not every skill-related problem will allow a setup round first, but this still gives some surprisingly nice flexibility. Especially if you have other bonuses to arbitrary skill checks, like cunning insight, bardic knack, or universal aptitude.

[Mr Adventurer]

Well, a Knowledge check at least.

[Zaq]

There’s one that works only on Knowledge and one that works on anything. I may have gotten the name wrong.

[Thurbane]

Dream of Perception is the one that allows a +10 insight bonus to any skill check or will save.

[Zaq]

Dream of Perception is the one that allows a +10 insight bonus to any skill check or will save.

Finally looked this up. We've both been getting the names wrong. Here's a quick table.

Contact	Send someone a message
Insight	+10 on a Knowledge check (can use untrained)
Instinct	+10 on any skill check or Will save
Perception	Use augury
Strength	+5 on damage roll or Fort save
The Moment	+5 to attack roll or Reflex save

My favorite, the one I was trying to reference above (but that I got wrong), is Instinct. +10 on an arbitrary skill check.

Note that all of these feats have other secondary effects as well, of course. I'm not giving us the whole text from the book.

[Sepultra]

I get the sense that a lot of people like the idea of the Mothercyst feat, but think it's hard to actually use. It's probably my favourite feat/line of spells in the whole of 3.5, so I've schemed a lot about how to make it useful. Although it's clearly easier to use as a DM, creative use on either side of the screen can transform it from suboptimal flavourful overkill into something beautiful and campaign ending.

I'd be very interested in knowing more about the ways you thought up to make it useful beyond what the spells say on the tin.

[Zombulian]

I'd be very interested in knowing more about the ways you thought up to make it useful beyond what the spells say on the tin.

I’ve personally used it to put Necromancy spells on a character that wouldn’t have them otherwise, like a Bard or Spellthief or something, just to qualify for certain feats and the like.

[Thurbane]

Interesting find: Necromancy Domain (Dragonlance Campaign Setting p.103) - most especially the granted power: rebuke, command or bolster undead as an evil Cleric; 3+ Cha mods/day.

As we all know, rebuking is very handy for powering devotion feats, entry into certain PrCs etc. This presents a way to get that without requiring a class dip.

But, and it's a big but, there's no easy way to get it without a dip into Mystic. Since no deity offers this domain, a lot of the usual methods (Arcane Disciple etc.) are out the window. And the fact that it isn't technically a Cleric domain (in the DCS, no Cleric can select the domain), things like Planar Touchstone are iffy.

[FearlessGnome]

Interesting find: Necromancy Domain (Dragonlance Campaign Setting p.103) - most especially the granted power: rebuke, command or bolster undead as an evil Cleric; 3+ Cha mods/day.

As we all know, rebuking is very handy for powering devotion feats, entry into certain PrCs etc. This presents a way to get that without requiring a class dip.

But, and it's a big but, there's no easy way to get it without a dip into Mystic. Since no deity offers this domain, a lot of the usual methods (Arcane Disciple etc.) are out the window. And the fact that it isn't technically a Cleric domain (in the DCS, no Cleric can select the domain), things like Planar Touchstone are iffy.

Well, if you can get a domain any other way, you can always take Heretic of the Faith to exchange it for any other domain not usually offered by your god.

...Could have sworn the Necromancy domain was on the highly useful list of domains, but I guess I misremembered. Did it get updated somewhere?

[Troacctid]

That list only includes cleric domains, not mystic domains.

[animewatcha]

Interesting find: Necromancy Domain (Dragonlance Campaign Setting p.103) - most especially the granted power: rebuke, command or bolster undead as an evil Cleric; 3+ Cha mods/day.

As we all know, rebuking is very handy for powering devotion feats, entry into certain PrCs etc. This presents a way to get that without requiring a class dip.

But, and it's a big but, there's no easy way to get it without a dip into Mystic. Since no deity offers this domain, a lot of the usual methods (Arcane Disciple etc.) are out the window. And the fact that it isn't technically a Cleric domain (in the DCS, no Cleric can select the domain), things like Planar Touchstone are iffy.

Well, if you can get a domain any other way, you can always take Heretic of the Faith to exchange it for any other domain not usually offered by your god.

...Could have sworn the Necromancy domain was on the highly useful list of domains, but I guess I misremembered. Did it get updated somewhere?

Necromancy domain is within eberron campaign setting. Deity is Blood of Vol. Effect is cast necro spells at +1 caster level. If necromancy domain would have stayed with dragonlance campaign setting.
Dragonlance has august 2003 as copyright month/year. Eberron campaign setting is June 2004. If Necromancy had stayed with the Dragonlance, Any guides involving turn undead usage would have mentioned dragonlance campaign setting versus say Sacred Exorcist drip ( right prestige class ?).

So if using Dragonlance as source for feats or something ( Like Reserves of Strength ) and your DM is okay with replacing of Necromancy from eberron's effect ,have fun with it.

[Thurbane]

Necromancy domain is within eberron campaign setting. Deity is Blood of Vol. Effect is cast necro spells at +1 caster level. If necromancy domain would have stayed with dragonlance campaign setting.
Dragonlance has august 2003 as copyright month/year. Eberron campaign setting is June 2004. If Necromancy had stayed with the Dragonlance, Any guides involving turn undead usage would have mentioned dragonlance campaign setting versus say Sacred Exorcist drip ( right prestige class ?).

So if using Dragonlance as source for feats or something ( Like Reserves of Strength ) and your DM is okay with replacing of Necromancy from eberron's effect ,have fun with it.

You may be thinking of the Necromancer domain (ECS p.107)?

Well, if you can get a domain any other way, you can always take Heretic of the Faith to exchange it for any other domain not usually offered by your god.

Interesting. You could, for instance, use the Sorcerer ACF from Complete Champion to get a domain, then use the HoTF feat to swap it for Necomancy domain. Bam! Rebuke undead! It is a pretty sucky ACF though.

[Sepultra]

I’ve personally used it to put Necromancy spells on a character that wouldn’t have them otherwise, like a Bard or Spellthief or something, just to qualify for certain feats and the like.

That's a good idea yeah.
What feats require necromancy spells, though? I genuinely can't think of any ATM.

[Thurbane]

That's a good idea yeah.
What feats require necromancy spells, though? I genuinely can't think of any ATM.

Sickening Grasp reserve feat (CM) requires a necromancy spell of 3rd level or higher to function.

Thrall of Orcus PrC (BOVD) requires the ability to cast a spell of the necromancy school.

[animewatcha]

You may be thinking of the Necromancer domain (ECS p.107)?

Alrighty then. Cleric of ideals or Catacombs of Enlightenment. Pick your choice to cheat the system outside of Dragonlance.

[thorr-kan]

Well, if you can get a domain any other way, you can always take Heretic of the Faith to exchange it for any other domain not usually offered by your god.

Heh. Nice.

Now, pair Heretic of the Faith with the OA Shaman to get Necromancy as a goofy domain. That's gotta be worth some fun...

[Zombulian]

That's a good idea yeah.
What feats require necromancy spells, though? I genuinely can't think of any ATM.

Well the specific trick I would use it for on a Spellthief build would be so you could qualify for Stitched Flesh Familiar and then have someone add the Spellstitched template to it. Gives a greatly expanded spell list as well as a nice spell battery for your own Spellthief spells.

[Kaleph]

Interesting. You could, for instance, use the Sorcerer ACF from Complete Champion to get a domain, then use the HoTF feat to swap it for Necomancy domain. Bam! Rebuke undead! It is a pretty sucky ACF though.

Doesn't HoTF require already divine spellcasting? A sha'ir would fulfill the requirement, and could get the cleric domain through prestige classes - but at that point you'd want to go sacred exorcist instead.
A code of conduct will also qualify for HoTF, but I don't know how to get it as a class feature.

[Thurbane]

Doesn't HoTF require already divine spellcasting?

Ugh...it does too.

[Alhallor]

There is the Feat "Heads up!" from Dragon Compendium where you can get the head off a creature and if it has a gaze attack use that once in the span of an hour. Incredibly cool but hardly worth it.

But I could swear I read a feat where you could sever a head, pay an amount of Gold (I think 100?) per creature HD and then use whatever the head could do three times (be it breath weapon, gaze or any other stuff as Long as the head could do it. Perhaps even a bite?) Great for a monster slayer kind of character. Everyone know where this could have come from? (Could be 3rd Party stuff, I did read a lot of 3.X stuff some years ago.)

[Zombulian]

Ugh...it does too.

Could still use the trick to get Rebuke on an Archivist or Spirit Shaman. Nothing stopping you from getting it on a Druid I guess but it definitely doesn’t feel right.

[Luckmann]

Heh. Nice.

Now, pair Heretic of the Faith with the OA Shaman to get Necromancy as a goofy domain. That's gotta be worth some fun...

It is my understanding that a Shaman can already choose Domains freely, representing the spirits, and have nothing (or at least not necessarily so) to do with their deity. They don't need Heretic of the Faith (nor does Clerics, in a lot of settings).

[thorr-kan]

Could still use the trick to get Rebuke on an Archivist or Spirit Shaman. Nothing stopping you from getting it on a Druid I guess but it definitely doesn’t feel right.

How would that work?

The feat says "If you have access to domains, you can exchange any one domain you have with another domain outside those normally availiable to your faith." So you have to already have a domain before HotF allows you to swap one.

Unless you mean a domain from a prestige class, after starting in Archivist, Druid, or Spirit Shaman?

[Zombulian]

It is my understanding that a Shaman can already choose Domains freely, representing the spirits, and have nothing (or at least not necessarily so) to do with their deity. They don't need Heretic of the Faith (nor does Clerics, in a lot of settings).

Not freely, really. They only have explicit access to the domains in OA, and suggested access to those added in the Spell Compendium.

[Luckmann]

Not freely, really. They only have explicit access to the domains in OA, and suggested access to those added in the Spell Compendium.

Where is this explicit? I decided to check OA after my last post just to double-check, and I'm not seeing anything like that in the Shaman pgs. 23-24. Is it secreted away in some other section?

[Zombulian]

Where is this explicit? I decided to check OA after my last post just to double-check, and I'm not seeing anything like that in the Shaman pgs. 23-24. Is it secreted away in some other section?

Domain spells and granted powers are given in Shaman Domains (see Chapter 7).

Seems fairly clear to me. Those are the domains that Shamans have access to.

[Luckmann]

Seems fairly clear to me. Those are the domains that Shamans have access to.

Nowhere does it suggest that the Shaman is limited only to those, just as the Cleric is not limited to the domains on pg. 185-189 in PHB.

[Kaleph]

Nowhere does it suggest that the Shaman is limited only to those, just as the Cleric is not limited to the domains on pg. 185-189 in PHB.

The problem is that there's no splatbook that explicitly supplements the shaman domains beside the spell compendium.
So, the domains published in the CD do not count (unless re-printed in the SpC and thematically fitting the nature/spirit world) since they are explicitly cleric domains.

[Zombulian]

Nowhere does it suggest that the Shaman is limited only to those, just as the Cleric is not limited to the domains on pg. 185-189 in PHB.

It literally says which domains (specifically Shaman Domains) the class has access to in the clause I quoted.
Sure the Cleric isn’t limited to just the Domains in the PHB, but the Cleric is limited to Cleric domains. I’m really not seeing what leg you have to stand on here.

[Luckmann]

It literally says which domains (specifically Shaman Domains) the class has access to in the clause I quoted.

And in the preceding part of the same section, it references Domains in the same general sense as any other. Again, nowhere does it actually say that the Shaman is specifically limited to those specific domains given in Chapter 7, unless there's some source I don't know of saying otherwise (and I checked the Errata just to make sure).

And just to be sure, I also double-checked the Oriental Adventures update to 3.5 in Dragon Magazine #318, and nothing there was off either, not in the Shaman section nor in the Domains section.