Stranger Things: Strangerer Edition

[afroakuma]

Well, I just got done watching Stranger Things 2, as The Duffer Brothers would like it referred to. Eager to share thoughts with other watchers.

Aaaaaanyone else watched it at all?

[Cen]

It was pretty good. Not better than first season but really good, solid, series, without weaker episodes.
Too much of it felt like just buildup for later seasons IMHO....

[afroakuma]

Huh. I'd disagree; Episode 7 felt like a really blatant backdoor pilot, and the characters were very weakly drawn. Conversely, I felt that the season's narrative arc was concluded solidly enough that the third season will need to make a new premise statement, rather than having the kind of direct open end that the first season left for a sequel.

That said, I'd agree, not better than the first season, but I think each had elements that triumphed over the other.

[JoshL]

Loved it, just as I had loved the first. Watched the whole thing in one sitting, and then started over at the first season. It's a fun bunch of characters to spend time with!

Once again, great score from the guys from S U R V I V E, and pretty amazing song picks. I don't hear Fad Gadget in enough things (the song "Back to Nature" was featured), and Oingo Boingo is one of my favorite bands ever. Nitpicking, the song "Just Another Day" didn't come out until 1985, but it's one of my favorites, so it didn't bother me too much.

Looking forward to season 3, and I'm sure I'll have rewatched this a dozen times before then.

[Cen]

Huh. I'd disagree; Episode 7 felt like a really blatant backdoor pilot, and the characters were very weakly drawn.

I see what you mean, but I disagree. Ep 7, although distanced from main story planted seeds for next season with new questions - Is Brenner really alive? Are there more escaped children? IF Brenner is alive he probably is starting project all over again. Like I said. Build up for next season.
Ep 7 was also needed for eleven to get stronger - both as a character and with her power. It was rushed but I liked the episode.

[Aliquid]

Watched it and loved it.

Those kids are amazing actors, and the character development was just as impressive as the previous season.

Spoilers ahead (obviously)

Good stuff

• I liked that Dustin and Lucas got more screen time than season 1 and we were able to get to know them better.
• I love how all the characters are complex with their good and bad points (e.g. I root for Jonathan with the whole love triangle thing, but at the same time, I like Steve for other reasons.)
• The whole Steve/Dustin relationship was a surprise, but it totally worked.
• Will's actor did an amazing job of being possessed.
• Hopper and 11's relationship was well done too
• Almost everyone was awesome

Some challenges

• Jane's side-quest to the city was interesting, but it felt out of place... like it was a different show.
• Billy's character had a chance to be something interesting... but they didn't seem to put enough time into it, so it fell flat.
• Finding the Doctor in the stairwell was jarring to me... either he would be dead, or hiding somewhere more protected. Why wasn't he eaten?

[Serenity]

I think Owens survived because the Mind Flayer decided to override the Demodogs hunting instinct once the lab was cleared, and pull them back to guard the gate.

[lunaticfringe]

I'm actually not sure which season I prefer, I'm rewatching 1 right now. There was some great character development in 2.

I liked Steve this season I hope he sticks around town for next season.

Billy was meh for me but I suppose they needed another High School Jerk for whatever reason. He was just a bit too extreme in his Unlikable Prick for my tastes. It's like "Oh we like Steve now. Let's try Steve 2.0, make him more of a **** this time"

I hope we get more Numbers and Will gets some Hero Time next season. Poor little dude.

[Aliquid]

I think Owens survived because the Mind Flayer decided to override the Demodogs hunting instinct once the lab was cleared, and pull them back to guard the gate.

Yeah. The only way for it to make sense was that Owens was being attacked and the Demodogs got called away while he was being attacked. I can't see any reason they would start a kill and then stop, and I don't see how Owens could chase one off (especially after sustaining that kind of injury)

But what happened that was so important that the Demodog ran away without taking the extra few moments to finish the kill... I'm going to have to re-watch and see everything that transpired between when they leave Owens and then find him in the stairwell.

[leafman]

I liked it. One of the best parts or plot lines was the twist that wasn't really a twist.

Spoiler: Spoilers

Show

Paul Reiser's character kept saying he was one of the good guys and the bad people who caused the mess were gone. Of course, we don't want to believe him, A) he's from the same shady operation and B) he's Burke. Then it turns out that he cares about Will's survival, they are trying to contain the rift while they research the Upside-Down (potentially to close it), and he makes Hopper officially Jane/Eleven's adopted father.

[Dienekes]

I’ll just add my voice to the others. Loved the season, only three real problems.

1) episode 7. I agree that Elevens adventure with the other girl felt flat. Basically the entire episode was set up to next seasons baddies being the not quite dead Doc and the other numbers.

2) Billy. I know that the show loves nods to other things. But the generic Stephen King super douche bully is not something that needed to be added. It feels forced when King does it. Why copy it?

3) Why make Mike such a pain? I get they’re trying to show the boy is in pain. But man was this a pain and repeated pointlessly. Show some anger and youthful rebellion. But he’s a jackass to Max for no reason. You can add tension without making your heroes jackasses. Have him opposed to letting her in because he doesn’t trust her to keep the secret. Not because Max is a girl and he has issues about girls now. You don’t need the boy to be perfect, but he was just unlikable.

[afroakuma]

I suppose it's possible the Mind Flayer was considering "recruiting" Owens and left him damaged but not in jeopardy of immediate death so that it could handle other matters first - it's probably got some degree of understanding about the scale of opposition possible via Will, and in turn has used Will to identify Owens as the person most likely to have more information and access.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Sooo...I binge watched this show cause enough people hassled, literally hassled, me to watch it but I wanted to watch it in a more neutral environment. So finally got to watch it with a buddy who hadn't seen it either.

Got through Season 1 with him and checked out Season 2 on my own and...its good. Not great, but good. It has really good execution but overall the show feels really, really predictable to me. Which is not the worst, this show is dripping with nostalgia, Stephen King feels, and 80's cliches, something you have to know going into it so if you don't enjoy those cliches your enjoyment of the show will suffer.

I'm not the biggest fan of that particular form of nostalgia all the time, so this show doesn't really connect with me. Still, I had a good enough time watching it and I would recommend it to other people if I thought they'd like it.

[Adderbane]

Just once I'd like the shadowy government science people to be more SCP and less InGen...

[Sholos]

Just once I'd like the shadowy government science people to be more SCP and less InGen...

So Warehouse 13?

[Clertar]

I was looking forward to season two after the great first season. Again, what we got was great TV, great acting, great production. It delivered after being one of the biggest hits of last TV season.

Given that it can never have again the surprise that the first season carried, I'd say this is as good as it gets.

[Peelee]

Just once I'd like the shadowy government science people to be more SCP and less InGen...

InGen?

The project was trying to spy on the Russians via psychic remote viewing. We see some success of this in season 1. The whole "opening a portal to another dimension and oh no there's monsters" was a side effect. Sure, once its open they're going to try to explore it and see what's up, but they weren't trying to create and/or contain new worlds or creatures.

Unless you mean the episode that was a straight riff on Jurassic Park.

[Adderbane]

InGen?

The project was trying to spy on the Russians via psychic remote viewing. We see some success of this in season 1. The whole "opening a portal to another dimension and oh no there's monsters" was a side effect. Sure, once its open they're going to try to explore it and see what's up, but they weren't trying to create and/or contain new worlds or creatures.

Unless you mean the episode that was a straight riff on Jurassic Park.

I mean being able to do something when things go wrong besides die messily. Or have containment failsafes hold at least thirty seconds.

Knowing Upside-Down monsters are vulnerable to fire and resistant to bullets, but still equipping everyone (including the assault team) with guns anyway is a particularly poor decision.

I just want my spooky government organizations to show some degree of competence.

[Peelee]

I mean being able to do something when things go wrong besides die messily. Or have containment failsafes hold at least thirty seconds.

Knowing Upside-Down monsters are vulnerable to fire and resistant to bullets, but still equipping everyone (including the assault team) with guns anyway is a particularly poor decision.

I just want my spooky government organizations to show some degree of competence.

The fire-guns thing I'll totally give you. There's no excuse for that.

But the other fail-safes seemed reasonable*.

*Same for Jurassic Park. InGen did a LOT of security, and they dont deserve to be held as the standard for corporate incompetence.

[danzibr]

Well, just finished it, I'll throw in my 2c.

1) Preferred the first season, overall. Not by a landslide, though. Stuff felt more random this time.
2) I like the individual characters.
3) Poor Bob :(
4) The whole 8 thing felt unnecessary. It was like... hey, let's give 11 a side quest. Future seasons, I guess.

[Otomodachi]

I have a thing to point out about episode 7, and then some questions to ask in that order.

Spoiler: The Episode 7 Connection?

Show

The punk gang's warehouse has some EXTREMELY interesting graffiti on it's walls (and windows). Three things stand out- "Barbelith", "King Mob" and "O'Bedlam" (presumably Tom O'Bedlam). This is significant to me beause King Mob and Tom O'Bedlam are characters in the now-almost-two-decades-old (depressing!) comic series the Invisibles. They are also references to a real life phrase and a literary character, though, so it could be a red herring. Except Barbelith is ALL Grant Morrison's.

In the invisibles, to sum it up briefly, our reality is actually a sort of 'hologram' (metaphor, not literal) made by the overlapping of two greater realities, call em Universe A and Universe B. Universe A is a place of change, growth and wholeness and Universe B is a place of corruption, decay and separation. Except it turns out that maybe to a certain extent they reflect the expectations of those witnessing them. Barbelith is... a thing... that is trying to aid humanity in evolving into beings that can move freely in four dimensions so as to safely survive the separation of the two universes, sort of like tectonic plates.

This summary is very simplified and maybe even partly just headcanon, but close enough. You can sort of see what it's exciting, considering how important the Invisibles was to me as a teenager, what with the pretty close parralels between the Upside-Down and Universe B. Is it deliberate? Was this graffiti just a shout-out to something that helped inspire the Stranger Things team? PROBABLY the latter, but Kay (08's) punk gang VERY closely mirrors the main character from the Invisibles as well, from physical appearance of a lot of em down to their roles IN the gang.

Spoiler: Questions

Show

What did the demogorgons feed on before Eleven pierced the between? The Upside-Down seems to be a place that is WHOLLY without nutrition.

WHY is the Upside-Down a reflection of our world?

Is it a bad place because that is it's nature, i.e. it is and always has been a dark reflection of our world, or did something MAKE it that way? The school is there, but the decorations for the Snow Ball, for example, are not. Why? Is it a matter of things needing a certain amount of permanence to be projected into the Upside-Down, or was it a more true parralel reality to our world and then something happened to ruin it?

Related, is the Smoke Monster from the Upside-Down, or ANOTHER reality?

HOW can the Smoke Monster perceive where the kids are once the gate is closed?

Where are the other (at least) 9 kids? Is Eleven the only one with the ability to astrally project?

Billie spent the entire season acting like a complete piece of ****, but it was hard to take any joy in seeing him "get his" because now we know the reason he acts like that is because he's been "getting his" on the regular, behind the scenes, from his dad for god knows how long. It was hard, but also very effective writing.

[DomaDoma]

Just finished. Beautifully cathartic epilogue, I tell you. Was not expecting Nancy, of all people, to be the star of the school-dance sequence. She's been by far the most unintentionally annoying character in the show, but there is absolutely nothing in that scene that doesn't warm me. Also, Dustin's mom has a replacement kitty. That is important.

Not as compelling a hook for the next season, though; just a friendly reminder that the Upside Down, you know, exists. Plenty of directions in which it could go, but none appear likely to carry a whole season the way Will's little puking episode did.

I'd like Eight back, if she makes like Steve and ditches her entourage of one-dimensional jerks. While hopefully still coming across as Evil Yoda, at least to begin with.

The out-of-place thing that niggles at me is Billy's low-key seduction of Mike's mom because he happens to vaguely resemble Fabio or something. I mean, all right, Mike's dad is the most useless man in Hawkins, but it's a background joke. Keep it that way, land's sakes. I was cringing enough at Nancy's love triangle; don't dump Billy the homewrecker at my feet, pretty please.

(On the other hand, would kind of make sense if Mike's little sister joined her siblings in borderline delinquency. Then the parents would finally have to bite the bullet and crack down, hopefully at the least convenient possible moment in the first three episodes.)

[Peelee]

In this season I really hated Mike. The guy was just a jackass for the vast majority of the show, to his friends, his family, everybody. Eleven is the most important person in the world, more important than his friends, and he is more important than anyone else for being the one who forged a bond with her. Everyone else can suck it. He doesn't want pictures of his awesome Ghostbusters outfit unlike all his other friends, he just assumes that Lucas will be Winston even though Lucas didn't agree to it (sidenote: while I like Lucas a lot more in this season, kid doesn't know comedy; Winston was hilarious. I'd totally rock the Winston nametag if my friends did a Ghostbusters-themed Halloween). He doesn't even want to acknowledge that Max exists, because no girl can join the group unless it's Eleven. Screw that kid. Eleven deserves a happy ending this season. Mike doesn't.

Also, Dustin went from my favorite character to my super favorite character. I totally envy his confidence in the dance scene, and it kind of broke my heart to see his confidence just absolutely shattered. Steve also was one of my favorites by the end of the first season, and just rocketed up this season, and Nancy dumping him and hooking up with Jonathon didn't do any favors for her character in my mind. Granted, i thought the breakup was really well-done. I could see how she had issues with Steve without either of them coming off as bad people, just having to make hard choices in hard circumstances and Nancy disagreed with Steve's handling of it. I never really got any chemistry between her and Jonathan, though, and especially jumping in with him almost immediately after ditching Steve seemed a bit out of character for her. She totally redeemed herself many times over for saving Dustin at the dance, though. I felt so bad seeing him standing there alone and forlorn, that was Nancy's Superman moment. Just swooped in and saved the day like it was nothing.

Steve and Dustin's friendship took the show to a whole new level for me. I loved that be the end, their relationship is almost familial, like brothers. I'm really excited to see them in season 3.

But c'mon, Dustin. Letting Mews get killed wrecked your mom. And me. And your mom. **** move, dude.

[DomaDoma]

In this season I really hated Mike. The guy was just a jackass for the vast majority of the show, to his friends, his family, everybody. Eleven is the most important person in the world, more important than his friends, and he is more important than anyone else for being the one who forged a bond with her. Everyone else can suck it. He doesn't want pictures of his awesome Ghostbusters outfit unlike all his other friends, he just assumes that Lucas will be Winston even though Lucas didn't agree to it (sidenote: while I like Lucas a lot more in this season, kid doesn't know comedy; Winston was hilarious. I'd totally rock the Winston nametag if my friends did a Ghostbusters-themed Halloween). He doesn't even want to acknowledge that Max exists, because no girl can join the group unless it's Eleven. Screw that kid. Eleven deserves a happy ending this season. Mike doesn't.

Max-isn't-in-the-party stupidity aside, I'm cool with Mike's arc. He is clearly there for Will. But the whole thing where he starts screaming at Hopper in the middle of a siege... and then you realize that all the characters are somehow aware that it isn't a siege at the moment... I mean, it would be totally understandable that Mike would react that way, if it were in a more peaceful scene and therefore not putting a boot through our sense of immersion.

[YangerDanger]

Haven't watched season 1 yet. Any recommendations for atmosphere of watching? Room Darkness, volume, etc.?

[DomaDoma]

Darkness is good. Also, get uninitiated/tight-lipped friends to watch with you. It's a kind of horror/suspense in which you can have a great experience shouting at the screen even though the characters aren't actually being idiots.