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Thread: Four Arms? (3.5)
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2010-06-21, 08:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Four Arms? (3.5)
I'm running a low-level D&D 3.5 campaign at the moment (4 going on 5) and a player of mine wants to play a character with four arms, ideally fairly human except for that feature.
Does anyone have any idea how this could work? Are there any races/templates/items that allow for this without ? I'd be open to re-fluffing a race, though Thri-kreen's LA is a little steep for the current game's level.
If it were to be home-brewed, I'd are there any suggestions on what would be balanced. What sort of penalty or adjustment would an extra set of arms call for? Are such things worth the equivalent of a feat? A LA? Something in between?
I haven't yet pinned down the player on how functional they'd like them to be, that is, if they're fully functional in combat, semi-functional (like the Diopsid's), or non-functional (like the Insectile template) so I'm not yet sure what I'd be balancing, but are there any suggestions on how to start?
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Re: Four Arms? (3.5)
I have a theory: if they were turned to stone, then, finding a master sculptor, graft two more stone arms onto the PC, then turn them back to flesh. That could work, maybe?
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Re: Four Arms? (3.5)
Dragon Compendium has a delightful LA+1 4-armed race of beetle-men called diopsids. Of course, walking around as a giant beetle-person doesn't sound very 'close to human,' but whatever, man. Fight the power.
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2010-06-21, 08:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Four Arms? (3.5)
Easy.
1. Make a human.
2. Say he's got four arms.
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Re: Four Arms? (3.5)
There's also the spell "Girallon's Blessing", which gives the target an extra pair of arms. It's in the Spell Compendium and is a Cleric/Druid/Wiz/Sorc 3 spell. It's duration is 10 minutes/level.
Originally Posted by SkyBoundFencer
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Re: Four Arms? (3.5)
There is an LA+1 Thri-kreen in MM2, which is exactly the same as the XPH one except without the psionics (no PP, no PLAs). It still has 2 RHD, so you'd need a 3rd level party to use it. However, it's really not that overpowered to allow it with 1 or 0 RHD, depending on what level you start at.
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2010-06-21, 08:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Four Arms? (3.5)
DMG-II has a template that adds two arms to any creature. +2 LA, I think, but it specifically says in the sidebar that it is deliberately overpriced to keep it from being too commonplace. You could probably get away with reducing it to +1.
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2010-06-21, 09:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Four Arms? (3.5)
How about a two-level dip in Totemist for Girallon Arms? They're not quiiiiite as good as the real thing, but they're still good.
That, or just refluff a Thri-kreen. Hat of Disguise optional.In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
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2010-06-21, 09:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Four Arms? (3.5)
Seconding non-psionic Thri-kreen, though the RHD might be a pain.
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2010-06-21, 09:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Four Arms? (3.5)
You can also make it permanent with permanency, per the rules in Savage Species. Vulnerable to dispel magic, though.
The totem bind description is really vague about these extra arms, so it's a bit of a DM's call on how these should work. The italics-fluff describes them as real arms, but the crunch mechanics that follow don't explicitly say they work like real arms. If you're OK with extra arms without any LA, this is probably the best way to go for low levels.
I also like Fax's suggestion of using the template in DMGII but knocking the LA down to +1. If Incarnum is off the table, that'd be the best way to do this without resorting to bug-eyed monster-people.Last edited by Darrin; 2010-06-21 at 09:27 PM.
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2010-06-21, 09:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Four Arms? (3.5)
That could work as fluff (even if I'm not sure that the rules work that way for it), but what about balancing it? Are these arms useless or functioning and, if they're functioning, what should they "cost"?
Aye, I've seen them (and mentioned 'em earlier) and if the player doesn't have a preference on the functional-spectrum, I think they're a fine compromise, but the +1 LA provides for much more than the arms. What do you think the arms alone should justify?
A Wizard Did It is pretty much the catch-all, but at what cost to the player does this become balanced?
Wow. I drop off the net for 6 minutes (mid-reply) and there are half a dozen new replies. Thanks everyone!Last edited by Jastermereel; 2010-06-21 at 09:31 PM.
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Re: Four Arms? (3.5)
I'd say allow them, have them replace the standard human bonus to skills. Houserule a couple of less-useful prerequisites (Nimble Fingers?) onto the Multiweapon Fighting line. Lots of arms doesn't really juice any kind of build except for precision damage builds and even then a slight feat tax is probably enough to balance it out.
Last edited by Mr.Moron; 2010-06-21 at 09:41 PM.
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Re: Four Arms? (3.5)
Considering how incredibly feat-intensive good rogue builds are (not to mention melee skirmishers), I agree completely with the above. Requiring a feat and losing the human skill points is more than enough to balance it. Heck, if he doesn't intend to use a precision damage build, you don't even need the feat tax. It's not really that good.
Of course, none of this applies if he's playing a DFI bard or there is one in the party.Rogue Handbook | Warmage Rebuild | Diablo's Assassin | Revised Classes
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2010-06-21, 09:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Four Arms? (3.5)
To tell the truth, I'm not yet sure what class she's considering. We'd been talking about psionics, but that was a build ago.
I'm not too worried about DFI Bards or other optimizing perils. The group isn't really the power-gaming type. I was just trying to make sure that I wouldn't overlook something big about the arms that would come back to bite me a few levels from now. Sure, I can Rule 0 a problem away, but it's better to figure it out in advance than on the fly in the middle of combat a few months into a character's career.
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2010-06-21, 09:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Four Arms? (3.5)
In that case I really wouldn't worry too much. Outside of some specific CharOP cases extra arms won't be that huge a benefit.
It'll give some limited utility in and out of combat, whenever it would be of benefit to be holding more than 2 objects. However I can't think of too many situations like that off the top of my head, at least not ones that would come up regularly enough for it to be a game-changer.Last edited by Mr.Moron; 2010-06-21 at 09:55 PM.
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2010-06-21, 11:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Four Arms? (3.5)
If s/he wants a bonus to having four arms, ie. more ability to weild weapons, more hands to spellcast with, than s/he will have to take some sort of penalty. I suggest a hit on Charisma or Constitution. Cha because it's freaky, Con because the heart and brain have to work harder to keep the arms working. S/he will also have trouble finding correctly fitting clothes. Weapon usage will need extra training to avoid cutting the extra arms.
If s/he wants extra arms, let him/her have them, just make sure they RP it, both inside and outside of combat.
If you want it to be something other than mutation, I suggest half naga or something along the lines. Sure, s/he has a tail, and is a blue/green scaley human with webbed fingers and toes and gills, but s/he has four arms doesn't s/he?Currently RPG group playing: Endworld (D&D 5e. A Homebrewed post-apocalyptic supplement.)
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2010-06-22, 09:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Four Arms? (3.5)
From my extra attacks thread:
Arms of the Naga: IIRC it's a graft or something similar that gives you two extra arms, but they can't be used for additional attacks, and they're expensive.
Arms of Plenty spell: 2 extra clawed hands, and the wording is less restrictive then Girallon's Blessing. Lords of Madness pg 209.
Gloves of Man: While they don't give you hands themselves, they do allow tentacles or other non-arm appendages to manipulate objects as fully-functional hands with opposable thumbs. And you can get tentacles with a variety of feats, spells, psionics, templates, etc. Savage Species p. 57, 42000 GP.
Spare Hand: Extra arm that can only hold things. Magic of Eberron.
Third Arm: This magic item can hold things, and can attack if you power it with an Artificer infusion. There's a more expensive version that has two additional arms instead of just one. Magic of Eberron.
Demonbinder: Marilith form gives you 2 extra arms. You'd have to hand wave the Drow restriction though.
Fang of Lloth: 2 extra arms at ECL 14. It would be a while until he got them, but he would get them. And it's a decent class.
Prehensile Tail: You can use your tail attack as an arm. This is the most efficient way to qualify for Multiweapon Fighting, as there are half a dozen easy ways to get a tail attack. Serpent Kingdoms pg 147.
I would actually just go with a refluffed Totemist though. It's a lot simpler, it's all day, and it's not game breaking.
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Re: Four Arms? (3.5)
Dragon magazine has the "obah-blessed" template which gives you another pair of arms, +8 to grapple checks and some ability score bonuses for +2 LA. There's also a version which grants four extra arms for +3 LA.
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Re: Four Arms? (3.5)
Hey, if you've got Dragon Compendium, a dvati character also technically has four arms! Durr hurr hurr!
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Re: Four Arms? (3.5)
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Re: Four Arms? (3.5)
They have templates for feral, winged, and 2-headed variants of base races, so I would suggest creating a 4-armed template, probably at LA+1 with some other bonuses added.
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Re: Four Arms? (3.5)
Divinations?
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Re: Four Arms? (3.5)
Originally Posted by Me
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2010-06-22, 02:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Four Arms? (3.5)
Without detriments (like losing a level or feat prereqs), 2 more arms is balanced around level 6 for what you can do.
My suggestion is to give him a level of the "Extra Arms" class (made up right now for convenience), which has all poor saves, poor BAB, a hit die equal to that of his latest class level (or the class he has the most levels in), and "2 more arms" sa a class ability.
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Re: Four Arms? (3.5)
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