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2011-05-01, 01:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2010
Re: Walking the Way: A Swordsage's Handbook [Under Construction again]
Don't forget Shiba Protector. The first-level ability adds an untyped bonus equal to your Wis bonus to all attacks and damage. With Insightful Strike you're getting Wis to AC, 2x Wis to attack, Wis to damage, and an extra Wis to damage with your favored disciplines' strikes.
Kind of annoying feat prereqs, but very worthwhile if you can manage it.
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2011-05-01, 02:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Finland
Re: Walking the Way: A Swordsage's Handbook [Under Construction again]
Combat Expertise (and the natural follow-up, Imp. Trip) can be picked up with a monk dip without needing int, and Imp. Trip is pretty snazzy with, say, setting sun maneuvers.
Iron Will can be gained by wrestling with otyughs in their hole (magical location from Complete Scoundrel).
Alertness is still mostly wasted, but meh.Quotes:Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.Spoiler
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2011-05-01, 02:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
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- Minnesota
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Re: Walking the Way: A Swordsage's Handbook [Under Construction again]
Leaping flame shouldn't be cyan, it requires you to teleport next to the attacker, not just anywhere you want within the range,
Aldo, you need to do a spell check, a lot of the colors are wrong, you listed maneuvers as black, quick to act as gold, and bonesplitting strike as red. Those are all wrong, and I'm pretty sure there are some others that are wrong.Avatar of George the Dragon Slayer, from the upcoming Indivisible!
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2011-05-01, 02:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2010
Re: Walking the Way: A Swordsage's Handbook [Under Construction again]
Last edited by Benly; 2011-05-01 at 02:07 PM.
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2011-05-01, 02:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Finland
Re: Walking the Way: A Swordsage's Handbook [Under Construction again]
Quotes:Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.Spoiler
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2011-05-01, 02:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2010
Re: Walking the Way: A Swordsage's Handbook [Under Construction again]
Like I said, if you've got the feats for it. I sort of class "enough wiggle room to pick up a class with more bonus feats" under having the feats for it. If you're just going with Shiba Protector, you probably will, but if you're like me and trying to cram in multiple high-req PrCs, three feats for that one-level dip is pretty hungry. If you're not doing crazy things like that, Improved Trip makes Combat Expertise feel considerably more worthwhile, I agree.
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2011-05-01, 03:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2009
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- UK
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Re: Walking the Way: A Swordsage's Handbook [Under Construction again]
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2011-05-01, 03:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Finland
Re: Walking the Way: A Swordsage's Handbook [Under Construction again]
Last edited by Greenish; 2011-05-01 at 03:18 PM.
Quotes:Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.Spoiler
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2011-05-01, 03:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2010
Re: Walking the Way: A Swordsage's Handbook [Under Construction again]
Actually, I meant Intuitive Attack (BoED, Wis to attack roll) but was getting all these things jumbled together. In my defense, I've been staring at maneuver selection for a level 15 gestalt swordsage/shiba//warblade/Mo9 all dang day and my brain is fried.
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2011-05-01, 03:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
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- Runite
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2011-05-01, 03:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2009
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- UK
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2011-05-07, 10:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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Re: Walking the Way: A Swordsage's Handbook [Under Construction again]
What do you think of a Changeling Swordsage->Warshaper build? How to make the most of those natural attacks?
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2011-05-08, 04:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2010
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- What's this planet again?
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Re: Walking the Way: A Swordsage's Handbook [Under Construction again]
I think a changeling warshaper wouldn't really work. It couldn't take advantage of the infinite natural attacks very well, since there isn't many boosts or other abilitys that work with full attacks.
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2011-05-08, 08:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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- Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
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Re: Walking the Way: A Swordsage's Handbook [Under Construction again]
You don't need to do anything else to take advantage of infinite natural attacks. You just get in range and declare "I win".
Now, no one is going to allow you infinite natural weapons from warshaper. I usually houserule it to one additional natural weapon.
Also, Warblade works a lot better for Warshaper. You qualify at 4 and both have war in their names
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2011-05-16, 03:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2010
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- What's this planet again?
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Re: Walking the Way: A Swordsage's Handbook [Under Construction again]
I don't think thst Warshaper is within the scope of thuis guide. Warshaper is a prestige class that can benefit just about anything, a swordsage doesn't have a lot to gain taking it compared to something like a fighter or paladin.
If you want I can make a thread and we can debate back and forth about swordsage warshapers.Last edited by Hazzardevil; 2011-05-16 at 03:09 PM.
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2011-05-16, 04:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2010
Re: Walking the Way: A Swordsage's Handbook [Under Construction again]
Why do people exclusively fixate on the infinite natural attacks glitch?
Warshaper gives you reach, fast healing, crit immunity, and +4 Str/Con in four levels. The natural attacks are a nice bonus but not even necessary for warshaper to be worthwhile. That said, mechanically there's more synergy for a crackdown warblade or crusader than for a swordsage. Thematically it can go quite nicely with Tiger Claw, though.
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2011-05-25, 03:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
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- Minnesota
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Re: Walking the Way: A Swordsage's Handbook [Under Construction again]
This is worth repeating. Leaping Flame does not teleport you anywhere within range, it teleports you adjacent to the attacker.
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2011-05-25, 09:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
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- SLC
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Re: Walking the Way: A Swordsage's Handbook [Under Construction again]
Great guide.
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2011-05-25, 11:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2009
Re: Walking the Way: A Swordsage's Handbook [Under Construction again]
I did most of the stances and posted it on the other thread please add it to this thread I'm working on the rest
Why on earth do druids and monks have diplomacy?
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2011-05-26, 11:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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- Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
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Re: Walking the Way: A Swordsage's Handbook [Under Construction again]
I don't understand either. Warshaper was a common class in optimized builds back in 339 (heck, it's a part of the King of Smack) but it took years until I saw someone mentioning infinite natural attacks. It's one of those things people should ignore while doing practical optimization, because
a) it's not intended
b) it's gamebreaking
c) it's silly
I've recently seen many of similar cases being defended here in the playground. It's said to see people becomiong munchkins instead of optimizers.
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2011-08-07, 04:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
Re: Walking the Way: A Swordsage's Handbook [Under Construction again]
Did this handbook re-die?
If not, might I suggest Sun School as a light blue candidate for unarmed swordsages? It becomes much better than if you were a monk because you have technically INFINITE teleports and can flurry as a standard action(flashing Sun). It gives minor distance control(always good for a swordsage) and pretty much gives a free attack with shadow blink and leaping flame(making the later pretty awesome as it ENSURES anyone who attacks you at range is practically giving you a free attack, two when combined with snapkick, AND depositing you right next to him).'Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!' - Johnson, Cave.
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2011-08-07, 03:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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- Wisconsin
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Re: Walking the Way: A Swordsage's Handbook [Under Construction again]
The problem is getting Flurry of Blows, which I don't believe Unarmed Swordsages get. Flashing Sun may act like Flurry but it isn't actually Flurry. Otherwise, yes, Sun School would be lovely for an US, especially with Falling Star Strike, though it looks rather like it's the territory of Tashalatora.
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2011-08-07, 04:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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2011-08-07, 06:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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- Wisconsin
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Re: Walking the Way: A Swordsage's Handbook [Under Construction again]
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2011-08-07, 06:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
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- Runite
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Re: Walking the Way: A Swordsage's Handbook [Under Construction again]
Many guides include at least a blurb about multiclassing and considering how friendly is ToB to multiclassing so putting a note that Dipping monk is not a bad idea for a sworsage, due the bonus feats and access to some really nifty feats is not out of question IMHO
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2011-08-07, 06:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
Re: Walking the Way: A Swordsage's Handbook [Under Construction again]
I just want to say that this guide, as well as the other guide to warblades has been very helpful. I'm still working on developing my char, but cheers for all this help!
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2011-08-07, 08:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2011
Re: Walking the Way: A Swordsage's Handbook [Under Construction again]
Well, I'm thinking more lenient DMs might let it slide since it's not broken good after all, just helpful for getting in more attacks and avoiding full attacks from opponents without reach. I realise it wouldn't fly in a low OP though.
That said, monk is generally a good 1-2 level dip for any full melee because of the bonus feats. If you are allowed extrapolate an Ascetic feat, a dash of monk is really quite good for a normal swordsage. Even without it, it at least gets you into Mo9 a tad easier.'Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!' - Johnson, Cave.
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2011-08-07, 08:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
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- Minnesota
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Re: Walking the Way: A Swordsage's Handbook [Under Construction again]
Avatar of George the Dragon Slayer, from the upcoming Indivisible!
My Steam profile
Warriors and Wuxia, Callos_DeTerran's ToB setting
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2011-08-07, 08:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2011
Re: Walking the Way: A Swordsage's Handbook [Under Construction again]
Derp.
Fine, RAW version should go: 1-2 level monk dip for IUS, combat reflexes and DOUBLE untyped Wis bonus to touch AC when unarmored(say goodbye to rays). Sunschool, snapkick and teleport for free attacks, then flurry, push enemy back, 5 ft step back.
Not really sure if you can teleport then 5 foot step though. If you can't, then just use a strike.Last edited by marcielle; 2011-08-07 at 08:51 PM.
'Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons! I'm gonna get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!' - Johnson, Cave.
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2011-08-07, 09:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
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- Runite
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