Drizzt clones anyone?

[EvilElitest]

Well i was looking though the top webcomics at buzz com and look what i found The Prime of ambition
seems decently done, but has a rather mary sue main character who seems like a Drizzt clone. Drizzt is one of my favorite charactes, so maybe i am being to harsh, but i'd like to see what everybody else thinks

It is a decent story with a a rather engading world/plot it is just hte drow that ether interests me or annoys me, so i'd like to see what you think
from,
EE

[Assassinfox]

He's not an actual Drizzt clone unless he dual wields.

[EvilElitest]

No but he is a Mary Sue semi drizzt clone
from,
EE

[Elliot Kane]

I've read it, but it's a very slowly developing story, and I lost interest.

I have no doubt it will read really well in one sitting, but it tends to update weekly and while it's well written with great art the actual plot advancement moves at a crawl.

[EvilElitest]

Does anyone else think that the drow is to mary sue

What made Drizzt so good was that you were able to
understand his philosphy and he explains it quite a few times, this guy doesn't do that
And drizzt is not accepted easliy on the surface, while this guy is
from,
EE

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I don't know if this is the appropriate place to ask this, but where exaxtly does all this annoyance at Mr. Do'Urden (I hope that's spelled right) stem from (in the community obviously, you seem to admire him, as do I)? He seems like a decent counterstereotype. And on the subject of Drizzt clones, why did this happen to him in particular? Could it have happened just as easily to someone like Elminster or Khelben Blackstaff (for the sake of argument)? It's one of those little mysteries about the Forgotten Realms (and D&D community in general) that I've never understood.

[Assassinfox]

I don't know if this is the appropriate place to ask this, but where exaxtly does all this annoyance at Mr. Do'Urden (I hope that's spelled right) stem from (in the community obviously, you seem to admire him, as do I)? He seems like a decent counterstereotype. And on the subject of Drizzt clones, why did this happen to him in particular? Could it have happened just as easily to someone like Elminster or Khelben Blackstaff (for the sake of argument)? It's one of those little mysteries about the Forgotten Realms (and D&D community in general) that I've never understood.

Back in the day, he WAS a decent counterstereotype. But then people everywhere read the books. And then they all went to their DM going "Oooh! Oooh! I wanna play a dark elf!" and there were DnD players everywhere playing as dual wielding renegade dark elves. He went from being a counterstereotype to being a new stereotype about dark elves. It got to the point where people would sarcastically say "There's more good dark elves than evil ones!"

Thus, good dark elves are treated with suspicion or disdain nowadays. Even if they don't dual wield or have anything to do with Drizzt other than race and alignment.

[ElfLad]

At least with evil drow, you know where they stand.

[Assassinfox]

At least with evil drow, you know where they stand.

In a puddle of your own blood holding one of your internal organs which may, or may not, be still attached?

[UglyPanda]

The origin of drizzt clones(paraphrased from wikipedia):

Second edition didn't have level adjustment. Any roughly humanoid monster could be used at first level, regardless of special abilities (Spell resistance, flight). The only downside was that they had a rather low level cap. So during second edition, there were a bunch of players who thought "A bunch of cool special abilities for free and a half-created backstory, sign me up!". And thus, the Drizzt clone army was born. There are now more renegade Drow than evil ones.

I don't think Drizzt's backstory is cool.

[Arlanthe]

To be fair to Salvatore, he did come up with the original idea. It's easy to dismiss now, but he told his editor who this "supporting character" was going to be, a renegade Drow (then an unknown phenomenon), and the editor thought it was too crazy and wanted to drop Drizzt.

All of the clones are just that-clones, but Drizzt is at least original.

[Kheal]

Very true. Good ways for people to make renegade Drow are:

Not quite so good- Have the Drow be in the moral "gray" area. Not quite evil, but definitely not good

Originality: Stuff like one of my characters; a Chaotic Good Drow ninja who uses a hand crossbow.

Essentially, you want to make your character as little like Drizzt as you possibly can.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Actually according to someone who posted on a similar thread I started on the WotC forums who is a veteran with the game says that there were two-sword wielding drow well before Drizzt appeared, since dual-wielding was some sort of elven special ability or something. As a result, Drizzt was more like a more fleshed-out example of something that already existed, and then the rest is history. I hope I paraphrased that correctly.

EDIT: By veteran I mean 1st edition.

[Kheal]

I wouldn't really know. The earliest version I've played was 2nd and that was in Baldur's Gate. Dual wielding was non-existent in that game, but in the sequel, Shadows of Amn, you could dual wield, although elves didn't have any special abilities for it.

[ZeroNumerous]

Isn't it abit ironic that this discussion is about clones when the last two posters have the same avatar?

On-topic: Honestly, I distaste drow in general. The concept of an entire race being outcasts from the majority of a race that's already heavily splintered(wild elves? Aquatic Elves?!) is just plain silly.

[Kheal]

On-topic: Honestly, I distaste drow in general. The concept of an entire race being outcasts from the majority of a race that's already heavily splintered(wild elves? Aquatic Elves?!) is just plain silly.

Bear in mind that those are subtypes of of elves. They all share the same culture; they've just adapted to their environment. They all share the same customs, deities, and innate racism. Drow are the only "splinter" faction in elven culture.

[Midnight Lurker]

I rather liked Viconia DeVir from Baldur's Gate. She's technically an exiled renegade, but she's still very much Evil...

[EvilElitest]

I don't know if this is the appropriate place to ask this, but where exaxtly does all this annoyance at Mr. Do'Urden (I hope that's spelled right) stem from (in the community obviously, you seem to admire him, as do I)? He seems like a decent counterstereotype. And on the subject of Drizzt clones, why did this happen to him in particular? Could it have happened just as easily to someone like Elminster or Khelben Blackstaff (for the sake of argument)? It's one of those little mysteries about the Forgotten Realms (and D&D community in general) that I've never understood.

I have nothing against salvator, he is one of my favorite modern arthurs

I also don't have a problem with drow characters or good drow, or even Drow rangers, but they need to be well fleshed out.
It is not salvator i am talking about, but the comic in question
Does it strike you as Drizzt clone and/or mary sue?

Essentially, you want to make your character as little like Drizzt as you possibly can.

Not always, i had a player once play a CG drow ranger, he did a great job while not being like Drizzt, as he belived that the Drow's purpose should be to do to the underdark what surface elves did to the surface

Anyways, back on topic
from,
EE

[1dominator]

Back on topic though, the main character is similar to Drizzt in someways, but wastly differen in other. (i.e. No horrbile racism towards other sapient humanods who wha green skin and fangs.)
He isn't as annoyingly saintly for one thing. And Than doesnt seem to be so horribly opposed to evrything non-good as Drizzt is.
-Dom

[EvilElitest]

Back on topic though, the main character is similar to Drizzt in someways, but wastly differen in other. (i.e. No horrbile racism towards other sapient humanods who wha green skin and fangs.)
He isn't as annoyingly saintly for one thing. And Than doesnt seem to be so horribly opposed to evrything non-good as Drizzt is.
-Dom

1. Drizzt isn't horrible very racist. Quite teh opposet in fact
2. The drow in that story seems to be overly saintly to me, just not well written
3. What/
from
EE

[1dominator]

Is evangelical the word im looking for #3? Drizzt and his cronies, are only racist towards "evil" humanoids, a.k.a. Humanoids with questinable alignments. In Salvatores latest trilogy, The Hunters Blades, the main characters have this horrible loathing for the idea of an orcish empite. While this is understandable, it seems, to me atleast, that they would rather carry on slaughtering orcs and goblins for ever, instead of giving them a chance to form their own nation, and perhaps join the other races in goodly commerce.
-Dom (this is just my view of the issue though, evryone is entitle to a view, even Drizzt.)

[EvilElitest]

Is evangelical the word im looking for #3? Drizzt and his cronies, are only racist towards "evil" humanoids, a.k.a. Humanoids with questinable alignments.

Funny you should say that, considering that massive amount of people Drizzt takes captive even when it would be wiser to just kill them.
You can accuse Drizzt of not worring about his own safty, but when he certainlly hasn't commited any racist crimes, at least to my knowlage. can you name an example where he attacks a creature becaust of his race, becasue i have plenty where he didn't attack when he had good reason.

In Salvatores latest trilogy, The Hunters Blades, the main characters have this horrible loathing for the idea of an orcish empite. While this is understandable, it seems, to me atleast, that they would rather carry on slaughtering orcs and goblins for ever, instead of giving them a chance to form their own nation, and perhaps join the other races in goodly commerce.

Well, considering that Many Arrows is not only a chosen of Grumash, but also has the intent of commiting genocide, has already slaughtered a few thousand people and is attacking quite a few nations at current, i'd say they are justified

-Dom (this is just my view of the issue though, evryone is entitle to a view, even Drizzt.)

You can have your option, but it has to be based after facts not incorrect infomation
from,
EE

[Kheal]

I rather liked Viconia DeVir from Baldur's Gate. She's technically an exiled renegade, but she's still very much Evil...

Actually, in Throne of Bhaal you can make her turn good.

[EvilElitest]

Actually, in Throne of Bhaal you can make her turn good.

Takes a while though
from,
EE

[Chaszmyr]

Very true. Good ways for people to make renegade Drow are:

Not quite so good- Have the Drow be in the moral "gray" area. Not quite evil, but definitely not good

Originality: Stuff like one of my characters; a Chaotic Good Drow ninja who uses a hand crossbow.

Essentially, you want to make your character as little like Drizzt as you possibly can.

Done, done and done. I hope.

I have a guess where the dual wielding comes from; in AD&D (2nd Edition) it was one of the primary skills of the Ranger class, which Drizzt was. You could use two weapons of equal or similar size (within reason) in either hand as long as you wore nothing heavier than studded leather. Things have changed a bit since, although I don't entirely know how much it has affected the physics and style of Drizzt's world since the appearance of 3.0 and 3.5.

I am playing a drow; Chaszmyr Mae'Val, presently a rogue, will become a monk after attaining 5th level rogue. No ranger in him at all except when I play NeverWinter Nights because I like the ranger-based missions and the class does have it's uses in a PC game. He is lawful neutral, although definitely not lawful nice; I was sneaking everywhere and backstabbing goblins like it was christmas on thursday's game. He's about in the same moral area as James Bond.

As little like Drizzt as possible in my case is the monk class; he's a kickboxer. His other weapon of choice is the rapier. I nicknamed him The Swashbuckling Monk.

I admit it, I like drow. 'Nuff said.

[EvilElitest]

Done, done and done. I hope.

I have a guess where the dual wielding comes from; in AD&D (2nd Edition) it was one of the primary skills of the Ranger class, which Drizzt was. You could use two weapons of equal or similar size (within reason) in either hand as long as you wore nothing heavier than studded leather. Things have changed a bit since, although I don't entirely know how much it has affected the physics and style of Drizzt's world since the appearance of 3.0 and 3.5.

I am playing a drow; Chaszmyr Mae'Val, presently a rogue, will become a monk after attaining 5th level rogue. No ranger in him at all except when I play NeverWinter Nights because I like the ranger-based missions and the class does have it's uses in a PC game. He is lawful neutral, although definitely not lawful nice; I was sneaking everywhere and backstabbing goblins like it was christmas on thursday's game. He's about in the same moral area as James Bond.

As little like Drizzt as possible in my case is the monk class; he's a kickboxer. His other weapon of choice is the rapier. I nicknamed him The Swashbuckling Monk.

I admit it, I like drow. 'Nuff said.

hooray, nice drow charactes

Would you call hte character in the comic a Drizzt Clone?
from,
EE

[Chaszmyr]

He's got the personality, and the obligatory animal companion (albeit a bird rather than a cat). I read a little of the strip and I confess I found him a little irritating; he has that 'pity me 'cos I'm a drow' attitude that put me off reading Salvatore's works a while ago. I guess I'd prefer a drow Stoic.

I am a bit gobsmacked that there's another hand to hand specialist out there this world's just getting too damn small.

[EvilElitest]

He's got the personality, and the obligatory animal companion (albeit a bird rather than a cat). I read a little of the strip and I confess I found him a little irritating; he has that 'pity me 'cos I'm a drow' attitude that put me off reading Salvatore's works a while ago. I guess I'd prefer a drow Stoic.

I am a bit gobsmacked that there's another hand to hand specialist out there this world's just getting too damn small.

Thanks, a second option

I like Drizzt myself and have nothing against good drow, but they need to be orginal
from,
EE

[Kheal]

Yay originality!

[EvilElitest]

Yay originality!

Tis good
from,
EE