[d20r, Class] The Sorceror

[Fax Celestis]

{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special | Seeds Known
1st | +0 | +0 | +0 | +2 | Spellweaving, Living Spellseed Familiar | 1
2nd | +1 | +0 | +0 | +3 | Bonus Feat | 2
3rd | +1 | +1 | +1 | +3 | - | 2
4th | +2 | +1 | +1 | +4 | Spell Shielding +1 | 3
5th | +2 | +1 | +1 | +4 | Seed Secret | 3
6th | +3 | +2 | +2 | +5 | Bonus Feat | 4
7th | +3 | +2 | +2 | +5 | Spell Shielding +2 | 4
8th | +4 | +2 | +2 | +6 | Seed Secret | 5
9th | +4 | +3 | +3 | +6 | - | 5
10th | +5 | +3 | +3 | +7 | Bonus Feat, Spell Shielding +3 | 6
11th | +5 | +3 | +3 | +7 | Seed Secret | 6
12th | +6/+1 | +4 | +4 | +8 | - | 7
13th | +6/+1 | +4 | +4 | +8 | Spell Shielding +4 | 7
14th | +7/+2 | +4 | +4 | +9 | Seed Secret, Bonus Feat | 8
15th | +7/+2 | +5 | +5 | +9 | - | 8
16th | +8/+3 | +5 | +5 | +10 | Spell Shielding +5 | 9
17th | +8/+3 | +5 | +5 | +10 | Seed Secret | 9
18th | +9/+4 | +6 | +6 | +11 | Bonus Feat | 10
19th | +9/+4 | +6 | +6 | +11 | Spell Shielding +6 | 10
20th | +10/+5 | +6 | +6 | +12 | Seed Secret | 11[/table]

HD: d4

Prowess: 2 per level

Skills: A sorceror uses the Mage skill set and chooses one other set. A sorceror gains 4 plus their Intelligence modifier skill points per level.

Proficiencies: A sorceror is proficient with all simple weapons and with light armor, but not shields.

Seeds: A first-level sorceror knows one seed from the list below and gains a new seed at second level and every two levels after that (at 2nd, 4th, 6th, and so on). A sorceror uses these seeds to craft spells using the Spellweaving ability, below. Each seed has a number of different abilities available for purchase at a certain point value, as well as having a fundamental shape and saving throw type.

Spellweaving (Su): As a standard action, a sorceror can craft and cast a spell. By activating this ability, the sorceror immediately gains a number of Spellweave Points (SP) equal to three plus their sorceror level plus their Charisma modifier. These points may be immediately spent upon weaving a spell from the seeds a sorceror knows. Any points left over at the end of the sorceror's turn dissipate harmlessly.

When crafting a spell, a sorceror may purchase any number of abilities from seeds he knows as long as he can afford their total cost. Thus a fifth level sorceror with a 16 Charisma and who knows the Fire, Ice, and Hex seeds could use this ability as a standard action to obtain 11 SP. With that 11 SP, he could then cause his spell to deal 2d6 fire (for 6 SP) and 1d6 cold (for 3 SP), but would have two points left over. If he instead had an 18 Charisma, using this ability would net him 12 SP, which he could then use to cast a spell that dealt 4d6 fire (12 SP), or a different spell that dealt 3d6 cold (9 SP) and inflicted a -2 penalty to saving throws (3 SP). Any combination, therefore, is possible, as long as the sorceror knows the correct seeds and has enough SP.

The base shape for most spells is "Target", indicating it affects a single target within the sorceror's line of effect. If, when utilizing multiple seeds, multiple base shapes are used, default to the first shape present on this list: touch, ray, target, line, cone, sphere. An exception to this rule is when a seed specifically changes a spell's shape, such as the Sphere, Cone, or Line seeds.

If multiple types of saves are needed, then the target must make separate saving throws (a maximum of one for each type required) or suffer the effects tied to that save. For instance, a sorceror casts a spell dealing 1d6 fire (from the Fire seed) and 1d6 cold (from the Ice seed) at a second level rogue. The rogue makes the Reflex save but fails the Fortitude save. If they didn't have Evasion, the rogue would take half damage from the fire effect but full damage from the cold effect; however, since the rogue has Evasion, the rogue ignores the fire damage but takes full cold damage.

Casting a spell in this fashion provokes an attack of opportunity. The save DC for a spell cast in this fashion is 10 + 1/2 the sorcreor's level + his Charisma modifier. Unless otherwise noted, the range on a sorceror’s spell using this ability is 25’ plus 5’ per sorceror level.

Spellweaving is affected by arcane spell failure chance. A sorceror wearing light armor and not using a shield may ignore his armor's spell failure chance.

Living Spellseed Familiar: At first level, a sorceror obtains a living spellseed familiar. This living spellseed familiar is a normal creature of its type (according to the living spellseed familiar template) except that it must be a seed that the sorceror knows. As a sorceror only knows one seed at first level, the living spellseed familiar therefore must utilize that seed.

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The living spellseed familiar also increases in power according to the sorceror's sorceror caster level, as shown on the following table:

{table=head]Caster Level | Bonus HD | Deflection AC Bonus | Special
1-3 | +0 | +0 | Alertness, Improved Evasion, Telepathic Link
4-7 | +2 | +1 | Speak With Living Spellseeds
8-10 | +4 | +2 | Bonus Seed
11-13 | +6 | +3 | Spell Resistance
14-16 | +8 | +4 | Bonus Seed
17-19 | +10 | +5 | -
20+ | +12 | +6 | Bonus Seed[/table]

Bonus HD: These are bonus Avatar HD, and as such provide d8 HD, base attack bonus equal to 3/4 their HD (like a cleric), a good Will save, and 2+Int skills per HD.

Deflection AC Bonus: This is a deflection bonus to the living spellseed's AC.

Alertness: While a living spellseed familiar is within 5' of its master, both the spellseed and its master gain a +3 bonus on Awareness checks.

Improved Evasion: A living spellseed familiar has the improved evasion ability. See the rogue class feature of the same name.

Telepathic Link: Living spellseed familiars that are within 100' of their master may communicate with them telepathically.

Speak with Living Spellseeds: A living spellseed with this ability can communicate with other living spellseeds within 50' telepathically.

Bonus Seed: Each time a living spellseed gains this ability, it gains access to an additional seed that its master knows. It may utilize this seed while using its spellweaving ability, but does not gain any other properties of the seed (such as subtypes or extra damage on attacks).

Spell Resistance: A spellseed with this ability gains Spell Resistance equal to 10 + twice it's HD.

Bonus Feat: At 2nd level and every 4 levels thereafter (6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th), the sorceror gains a bonus feat chosen fron the following list: Dodge, Combat Casting, Extra Seed, Extra Seed Secret, Intelligent Targeting, Perceptive Spellweaving, Reflexive Spellweaving, Residual Spellweaving, Seed Focus, Skill Focus, Weapon Focus. He must still meet all of the feat's prerequisites.

Spell Shielding (Su): A sorceror is well-versed in the inner workings of magic and therefore is better able to defend himself against them. At 4th level, the sorceror gains a +1 bonus on saves versus arcane spells, cartomancy, and spellwoven spells. This bonus does not apply against spell-like or supernatural abilities that mimic spells, nor does it apply against items that mimic spells--it does, however, apply against items that cast spells, like a wand. This bonus increases by 1 every three levels thereafter (to +2 at 7th, +3 at 10th, +4 at 13th, +5 at 16th, and +6 at 19th).

Seed Secret (Ex): At fifth level and each three levels thereafter (8th, 11th, 14th, 17th, and 20th), the sorceror gains the knowledge of the inner workings of one of his seeds. He selects one secret from a seed he knows. When casting a spell using his Spellweaving class feature, he may apply one or more seed secrets to spells that he casts.

In order to apply a seed secret, he must utilize the seed that the secret is associated with: therefore, a sorceror could not cast a spell that dealt 2d6 cold damage (using the Ice seed) and apply the Fire seed's Igniting secret to the spell. However, if the spell dealt 2d6 cold damage (using the Ice seed) and 1d6 fire damage (using the Fire seed), the sorceror could apply the Igniting secret.

To apply a secret, a sorceror spends 1 SP when casting the spell. A secret may only be applied to a spell once.

Some secrets can be learned from multiple seeds. If this is the case, you must only learn the secret once to be able to apply it to any applicable seeds, and may only apply it once even if you use two or more of the parent seeds in a spell. For instance, if you learn the Strong secret from the Fire seed, you may apply the Strong secret when using the Acid seed, and when using both the Acid and Fire seeds you may only apply the Strong secret once.

Seeds

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Acid
Shape: Target
Save: Reflex half
Duration: Instantaneous
*3 SP: +1d4 acid damage

Secrets
*Lingering: the spell lingers, dealing half the dice of damage this seed dealt again next round.
*Nauseating: the target is nauseated for one round. A Fortitude save negates this effect.
*Strong: +1 DC
*Caustic: +1 damage per die of acid damage. This extra damage effects even targets immune to acid.

Agile
Shape: Personal
Save: None
Duration: 1 round
*2 SP: the target gets a +4 competence bonus on Acrobatics checks.
*1 SP: the competence bonus on Acrobatics checks is increased by 1.
*4 SP: the target gains a +2 competence bonus to Reflex saves.
*1 SP: increase the duration by 1 round.

Secrets
*Allied: you may apply this effect to one ally you are touching.
*Invigorating: the target gains temporary HP equal to the number of rounds the spell lasts.
*Evasive: the target gains Evasion.
*Trained: the target is treated as if they are trained in the skill(s) this spell boosts.

Barrier
Shape: Line
Save: Will Partial
Duration: 1 round
*4 SP: The area of this spell becomes difficult terrain
*3 SP: The area of this spell blocks line of sight. This can be overcome by a successful Will save.
*1 SP: The duration of this spell increases by one round.
*3 SP: The difficult terrain caused even affects flying creatures.

Secrets
Danger: Any creature that enters the terrain modified by this spell suffers half the effects of any other seeds that are part of this spell (e.g. half the damage).

Cloud
Shape: 10' radius Sphere
Save: Fortitude negates
Duration: 1 round
*4 SP: sight within the spell area is obscured beyond 5', and creatures farther than 5' have total concealment.
*2 SP: creatures within 5' have concealment.
*2 SP: increase the duration by 1 round.

Secrets
*Imbued: effects from any other seeds in this spell persist and affect everything in the area or that enters the area of the spell each round.
*Strong: +1 DC

Conceal
Shape: Personal
Save: None
Duration: 1 round
*2 SP: the target gets a +4 competence bonus on Stealth checks.
*1 SP: the competence bonus on Steal checks is increased by 1.
*9 SP: the target is rendered invisible, as the spell.
*1 SP: increase the duration by 1 round.

Secrets
*Allied: you may apply this effect to one ally you are touching.
*Hidden: the target is invisible to darkvision.
*Trained: the target is treated as if they are trained in the skill(s) this spell boosts.

Cone
Shape: Cone
Save: As original seeds.
Duration: As original seeds
*4 SP: change the spell's shape to a 15' cone
*2 SP: add +5' to the cone's size

Secrets
*Discriminating: the spell does not affect allies; alternatively, the spell does not affect enemies.

Cruel
Shape: Ray
Save: Reflex half
Duration: Instantaneous
*4 SP: +1d10 physical damage. You take 1 damage that can't be prevented.

Secrets
*Forceful: the spell bull-rushes the target, using a Strength bonus equal to the total number of dice of damage this spell inflicts.
*Nauseating: the target is nauseated for one round. A Fortitude save negates this effect.
*Strong: +1 DC
*Wounding: the spell also deals 1 Constitution damage.

Detect
Shape: Personal
Save: None
Duration: 1 minute
*1 SP: the target can detect magic as the spell detect magic.
*1 SP: the target can detect alignments as the detect chaos/evil/good/law spells.
*3 SP: the target can see invisible creatures and objects.

Secrets
*Allied: you may apply this effect to one ally you are touching.
*Darkseeing: the target's darkvision also applies in magical darkness.

Dispel
Shape: Target
Save: None
Duration: Instantaneous or 1 round; see text
*8 SP: as a targeted dispel magic.
*2 SP: increase the maximum caster level by 1.

Secrets
*Distracting: for 1 round the target must make a Concentration check (DC 10 + your CL) if it attempts to cast a spell or lose the spell.

Drain
Shape: Ray
Save: Fortitude negates
Duration: Instantaneous
*5 SP: +1d6 negative energy damage

Secrets
*Disintegrating: if the target is reduced to 0 or less, the target is disintegrated.
*Draining: you gain temporary Hit Points equal to half the damage dealt by this spell. These temporary HP last for a number of rounds equal to the number of dice of negative energy damage the spell deals.
*Enervating: the spell also bestows one negative level to anyone damaged by the negative energy damage.

Earth
Shape: Personal
Save: Will negates
Duration: 1 minute or 1 hour; see text.
*6 SP: you gain a burrow speed of 20' for 1 minute.
*2 SP: increase your burrow speed by 5' for 1 hour.
*4 SP: increase the duration by 1 minute. This ability cannot be applied to a target who did not gain their burrow speed through this seed.

Secrets
*Allied: you may apply this effect to one ally you are touching.
*Reverberating: the target also gains tremorsense 10'.

Electricity
Shape: Target
Save: Reflex half
Duration: Instantaneous
*3 SP: +1d6 electricity

Secrets
*Lingering: the spell lingers, dealing half the dice of damage this seed dealt again next round.
*Stunning: the spell stuns the target for one round. A Fortitude save negates this effect.
*Strong: +1 DC.
*Vicious: +1 damage per die of electrical damage. This extra damage effects even targets immune to electricity.

Entangle
Shape: Target
Save: Reflex negates
Duration: 1 round
*4 SP: the target is entangled.
*2 SP: the target is entangled for +1 round.

Secrets
*Clinging: Any elemental damage (that is, acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic) attached to this spell also deals half that amount of damage again the next round.

Fear
Shape: Target
Save: Will negates
Duration: 1 round
*3 SP: target is shaken
*1 SP: the duration increases by 1 round.

Secrets
*Terrifying: the target is frightened instead.

Fire
Shape: Target
Save: Reflex half
Duration: Instantaneous
*3 SP: +1d6 fire

Secrets
*Forceful: the spell bull-rushes the target, using a Strength bonus equal to the total number of dice of damage this spell inflicts.
*Igniting: the spell ignites target, dealing 1d6 fire per round afterwards. A DC 15 Reflex save puts out the fire, and a creature who makes the initial save does not catch fire.
*Strong: +1 DC.
*Searing: +1 damage per die of fire damage. This extra damage effects even targets immune to fire.

Fly
Shape: Touch
Save: None
Duration: 1 minute
*6 SP: the target gains a 20' fly speed (poor maneuverability).
*3 SP: the target gains +1 additional minute of flight. This ability cannot be applied to a target who did not gain their flight through this seed.
*3 SP: the target's existing fly speed increases by +10' for 1 hour.

Secrets
*Agile: the target's maneuverability class improves one step for every 20 feet of speed added, to a maximum of perfect maneuverability.

Force
Shape: Target or Personal; see text
Save: None
Duration: Instantaneous or 1 hour per AC; see text
*2 SP: 1d4 force damage. As a force effect, this applies even against incorporeal or ethereal creatures. This is a Target effect. This ability cannot be purchased multiple times.
*2 SP: +1 force damage.
*2 SP: +1 armor bonus to AC. As a force effect, this applies even against incorporeal or ethereal creatures. This is a personal effect that lasts for 1 hour per point of AC.

Secrets
*Deflecting: the target gains DR/- equal to the amount of AC provided by this spell.
*Forceful: the spell bull-rushes the target, using a Strength bonus equal to the total number of dice of damage this spell inflicts.

Freedom
Shape: Personal
Save: None
Duration: 1 round
*2 SP: the target gets a +4 competence bonus on Escape Artist checks.
*1 SP: the competence bonus on Escape Artist checks is increased by 1.
*10 SP: you may act as if under the freedom of movement spell.
*1 SP: increase the duration by 1 round.

Secrets
*Allied: you may apply this effect to one ally you are touching.
*Focused: you may cast this spell while grappled without making a Concentration check.
*Trained: the target is treated as if they are trained in the skill(s) this spell boosts.

Grease
Shape: 5' radius Sphere
Save: Reflex negates
Duration: 1 round
*6 SP: anything in the area or enters the area of the spell makes a DC 10 Acrobatics check or falls prone.
*2 SP: increase the duration by 1 round.

Secrets
*Imbued: effects from any other seeds in this spell persist and affect everything in the area or that enters the area of the spell each round.
*Immobilizing: the spell immobilizes the target instead.
*Strong: +1 DC

Hex
Shape: Target
Save: Will negates
Duration: 1 round
*3 SP: the target takes a -2 penalty to either saves, attack rolls, or skill checks (pick one).
*3 SP: increase the penalty inflicted by 1.
*3 SP: increase the duration by 1 round.

Secrets
*Double-Hexing: the penalty also applies to saves, attack rolls, or skill checks (pick one; your choice must be different from the original focus of the spell).
*Desensitizing: the spell also blinds or deafens the target (your choice) for the duration.

Ice
Shape: Target
Save: Fortitude half
Duration: Instantaneous
*3 SP: +1d6 cold

Secrets
*Slowing: the spell slows the target for a number of rounds equal to the total number of dice of damage inflicted by this spell. A Will save negates this effect.
*Strong: +1 DC.
*Freezing: +1 damage per die of cold damage. This extra damage effects even targets immune to cold.

Knowledge
Shape: Personal
Save: None
Duration: 1 round
*2 SP: the target gets a +4 competence bonus on all Knowledge checks
*1 SP: the competence bonus on Knowledge checks is increased by 1.
*1 SP: increase the duration by 1 round.
*12 SP: you may apply one Secret you don't know to this spell, as long as it could normally be applied to the spell.
*15 SP: you may identify a touched magical object, as the spell.

Secrets
*Allied: you may apply this effect to one ally you are touching.
*Trained: you are treated as if you are trained in the skill(s) this spell boosts.

Light
Shape: Sphere
Save: Fortitude half or partial; see text
Duration: 1 minute
*1 SP: +5' radius bright illumination, and shadowy illumination for equal area past that for one minute.
*1 SP: +1 minute of duration.

Secrets
*Pure: the light instead does 1d6 damage to undead and oozes per original minute of duration. After determining damage, reduce the duration to instantaneous and change the shape to Target. A successful Fortitude save halves this damage.
*Blinding: the light blinds targets within the bright illumination area. Reduce the duration from minutes to rounds. A successful Fortitude save negates the blindness.

Line
Shape: Line
Save: As other seeds
Duration: As other seeds
*5 SP: change spell's shape to 30' line.
*3 SP: add +5' to line length.

Secrets
*Discriminating: the spell does not affect allies; alternatively, the spell does not affect enemies.

Protect
Shape: Touch
Save: None
Duration: 1 minute
*1 SP: prevent next 2 physical damage to target.
*1 SP: increase the prevented damage amount by 1.
*2 SP: increase the duration by +1 minute.

Secrets
*Resisting: the damage prevention also applies to magic damage, using the same pool.

Runes
Shape: Personal
Save: Reflex half
Duration: 1 hour
*2 SP: you can read any written language, including magical texts.
*1 SP: the next text you write cannot be read by anyone who can't read magical text.
*6 SP: the next text you write explodes dealing 2d6 force damage to everything in a 10' radius, including what it was written on, if read by anyone but you. If you apply the Allied Secret you may designate one other person who can read the text without causing it to explode.
*2 SP: increase the force damage by 1d6

Secrets
*Allied: you may apply this spell to one target you are touching.
*Forceful: the spell bull-rushes the target, using a Strength bonus equal to the total number of dice of damage this spell inflicts.
*Strong: +1 DC

Sense
Shape: Touch
Save: None
Duration: 1 minute
*3 SP: the target gains darkvision 60'.
*3 SP: the target gains low-light vision.
*3 SP: the target gains the Scent ability.
*2 SP: increase the duration by one minute.

Secrets
*Reverberating: the target also gains tremorsense 10'.
*Darkseeing: the target's darkvision also applies in magical darkness.
*Farsensing: double ranges on effects granted by this seed.

Sound
Shape: Target
Save: Fortitude negates
Duration: Instantaneous or 1 round; see text
*3 SP: +1d4 sonic damage
*3 SP: the target is dazed for one round.

Secrets
*Stunning: a dazed target is stunned instead.
*Strong: +1 DC.
*Echoing: +1 damage per die of sonic damage. This extra damage effects even targets immune to sonic damage.

Sphere
Shape: Sphere
Save: As other seeds
Duration: As other seeds
*5 SP: change the spell's shape to a 10' sphere.
*3 SP: increase the sphere's shape by a +5' radius.

Secrets
*Discriminating: the spell does not affect allies; alternatively, the spell does not affect enemies.

Survival
Shape: Personal
Save: None
Duration: 1 round or 24 hours; see text
*2 SP: the target gets a +4 competence bonus on Survival checks.
*1 SP: the competence bonus on Survival checks is increased by 1.
*1 SP: increase the duration by 1 round.
*4 SP: the target is unaffected by hot or cold as if under the endure elements spell for 24 hours.

Secrets
*Allied: you may apply this effect to one ally you are touching.
*Trained: you are treated as if you are trained in the skill(s) this spell boosts.

Teleport
Shape: Personal
Save: Will negates
Duration: Instantaneous
*8 SP: you teleport to any unoccupied square within your spell range.
*1 SP: increase the range by 10'

Secrets
*Allied: you may apply this effect to one ally you are touching.
*Hostile: you may apply this effect to one enemy as a touch attack.

Time
Shape: Touch
Save: Will negates
Duration: 1 round
*9 SP: target is slowed.
*3 SP: increase duration by 1 round.

Secrets
*Speeding: the spell hastes the target instead.
*Paralyzing: the spell paralyzes the target instead.
*Immobilizing: the spell immobilizes the target instead.

Vigilant
Shape: Personal
Save: None
Duration: 1 minute
*2 SP: the target gets a +4 competence bonus on Awareness checks.
*4 SP: the target gains a +4 bonus on initiative checks.
*1 SP: increase the bonus by 1.
*1 SP: increase the duration by 1 minute.

Secrets
*Allied: you may apply this effect to one ally you are touching.
*Trained: the target is treated as if they are trained in the skill(s) this spell boosts.

Vigor
Shape: Personal
Save: None
Duration: 1 round
*2 SP: the target gets a +4 competence bonus on Athletics checks
*1 SP: the competence bonus on Athletics checks is increased by 1.
*4 SP: the target gains temporary hit points equal to their modifier to Athletics checks.
*1 SP: increase the duration by 1 round.

Secrets
*Allied: you may apply this effect to one ally you are touching.
*Invigorating: the target gains additional temporary HP equal to the number of rounds the spell lasts.
*Refreshing: the target is cured of fatigue and exhaustion, and is immune to those conditions for the duration of the spell.
*Trained: you are treated as if you are trained in the skill(s) this spell boosts.

Vile
Shape: Ray
Save: Reflex half
Duration: Instantaneous
*6 SP: 1d4 negative energy damage. This damage cannot be cured through magical means; instead, it must be cured over time. This ability cannot be purchased multiple times.
*3 SP: +1 negative energy damage.

Secrets
*Desensitizing: the spell also blinds or deafens the target (your choice) for the duration.
*Nauseating: the target is nauseated for one round. A Fortitude save negates this effect.
*Strong: +1 DC.
*Wounding: the spell also deals 1 Constitution damage.

Water
Shape: Personal
Save: Will negates
Duration: 1 hour
*6 SP: you gain a swim speed of 40'
*2 SP: increase your swim speed by 10'.
*3 SP: you may breathe underwater normally
*8 SP: as long as you are underwater you act as if under Freedom of Movement for the duration of this spell.
*4 SP: increase the duration of the swim speed and underwater breathing by 1 hour.

Secrets
*Allied: you may apply this effect to one ally you are touching.

Weapon
Shape: Touch
Save: None
Duration: 1 minute
*6 SP: the touched weapon gains a +1 enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls
*4 SP: increase the enhancement bonus gained by 1.
*1 SP: increase the duration by 1 minute

Secrets
*Distracting: for 1 round the target must make a Concentration check (DC 10 + you CL) if it attempts to cast a spell or lose the spell.

Wind
Shape: Line
Save: None
Duration: Instantaneous
*3 SP: the spell bull-rushes the target with a +4 Strength bonus.
*3 SP: improve bull-rush Strength bonus by +3.
*2 SP: create 5 MPH gust of wind.
*2 SP: increase gust of wind MPH by 5.

Secrets
*Tripping: the spell's bull-rush also attempts to trip the target at the same bonus.

Wolf
Shape: Personal
Save: None
Duration: 1 minute
*3 SP: you gain a bite attack that deals 1d6 (if medium) + Strength modifier damage.
*2 SP: increase the damage die of your bite attack by 1.
*6 SP: your bite attack gains the Trip ability of a Wolf.
*1 SP: increase the duration by 1 minute.

Secrets
*Invigorating: the target gains temporary HP equal to the number of rounds the spell lasts.

Word
Shape: None
Save: Will negates
Duration: Instantaneous or 1 round; see text
*2 SP: the target is deafened for 1 round if it has 10 or less HP.
*4 SP: the target is dazed for 1 round if it has 10 or less HP.
*6 SP: the target is blinded for 1 round if it has 10 or less HP.
*8 SP: the target is stunned for 1 round if it has 10 or less HP.
*10 SP: the target is killed if it has less than 10 HP.
*1 SP: increase the duration by 1 round.
*1 SP: increase the HP limit by 10.

Secrets
*Focused: you may cast this spell while grappled without making a Concentration check.
*Strong: +1 DC

Feats

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Extra Seed
Prerequisites: Charisma 15, Spellweaving class feature, access to at least four seeds

Benefit: You gain the knowledge of a new seed and add it to your seeds known.

Special: This feat may be taken multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take this feat, you acquire a new seed, and the Charisma prerequisite increases by 2. A sorceror may choose this feat as one of his sorceror bonus feats.

Extra Seed Secret
Prerequisites: Charisma 15, Spellweaving class feature, at least one seed secret

Benefit: You gain further knowledge into the inner workings of a seed. When you take this feat, select a seed you know. You gain the knowledge of one of that seed's secrets and may utilize it as normal.

Special: This feat may be taken multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Instead, you learn a new seed secret. A sorceror may choose this feat as one of his sorceror bonus feats.

Intelligent Targeting [Investing]
Prerequsites: Intelligence 15, Spellweaving class feature

Benefit: A sorceror who takes this feat adds his Intelligence modifier to his damage rolls when casting a spell using his Spellweaving class feature. This feat does not add additional damage to spells that do not already deal damage.

Investiture: For each three points invested in this feat, increase the extra damage by 1.

Special: A sorceror may choose this feat as one of his sorceror bonus feats.

Perceptive Spellweaving
Prerequisites: Wisdom 15, Spellweaving class feature, at least one seed secret

Benefit: Your ability to call forth your magic is augmented by your ability to perceive raw magic. You add your Wisdom modifier in addition to your Charisma modifier when determining the number of Spellweave Points you receive when activating your Spellweave ability.

Special: A sorceror may choose this feat as one of his sorceror bonus feats.

Reflexive Spellweaving [Investing]
Prerequisites: Spellweaving class feature, Combat Reflexes, Residual Spellweaving

Benefit: If you have Spellweave Points carrying over to your next turn from your Residual Spellweaving feat, you may utilize them to cast a spell in place of making an attack of opportunity. The spell can only use Spellweaving Points that are stored by your Residual Spellweaving feat. Casting a spell in this fashion consumes one of your attacks of opportunity and does not provoke an attack of opportunity.

Investiture: For each three points you invest in this feat, you gain one temporary Spellweaving Point when casting a spell as an attack of opportunity. A point gained in this fashion may immediately be spent to augment a spell further.

Normal: You may only cast spells when activating your Spellweaving class feature.

Special: A sorceror may choose this feat as one of his sorceror bonus feats.

Residual Spellweaving
Prerequisites: Charisma 15, Spellweaving class feature

Benefit: When you have Spellweave Points left over after casting a spell, you may choose to have up to three of them carry over until the end of your next turn.

Normal: Spellweave Points disappear at the end of your turn.

Special: A sorceror may choose this feat as one of his sorceror bonus feats.

Seed Focus
Prerequisites: Charisma 15, Spellweaving class feature, knowledge of at least one seed

Benefit: When you take this feat, choose a seed you have access to. When using this seed, you may apply one of its secrets that you know without spending an SP to activate it. Furthermore, the DC of a spell you cast using the chosen seed increases by 1.

Special: A sorceror may choose this feat as one of his sorceror bonus feats.

Seed Specialization
Prerequisites: Charisma 15, Spellweaving class feature, knowledge of at least two seeds, Seed Focus with the chosen seed

Benefit: When you take this feat, choose a seed you have taken the Seed Focus feat for. When using this seed, reduce the cost of the seed's base functions by 1, to a minimum of 1. Further, the DC of a spell you cast using the chosen seed increases by 1.

[thegurullamen]

Well, that was an annoyingly long down time.[/forum whine]

Question: since seed secrets are so rare, why have some of them be so specialized? Who would use a secret slot, of which there are only six, solely to target oozes with the light seed? it's too specialized. Seems like you could just pile the ooze secret into the undead secret and not overpower it. It's the same effect, after all.

[Draz74]

Huh.

Usually, when you put up a new class, my reaction is, "Well, it's got a couple good ideas in it. And it looks well-balanced with Fax's other classes. Overall it looks like it will fit well in his system. But it just doesn't float my boat -- mostly, it's just too complicated."

This one? Much more elegant. I like it.

That said, I'm also confused by it. So even though these are called "spells," they have nothing to do with other classes' spellcasting systems? These are the only effects a sorceror (you changed the spelling on purpose?) can accomplish with his magic? Not saying this is bad, just surprising given how much of the Wizard spell list you're leaving intact.

And I didn't see a daily limit on Spellweaving or anything, so I'm assuming this is supposed to be d20r's version of the Dragonfire Adept -- blast away every round, all day. Actually, that better be the case, because the effects here turn out to be a good deal weaker than Wizards can pull off at the same level.

Another clarification: If a sorcerer hurls a spell with the Acid and Entangle seeds, does the target make 2 Reflex saves? Or make 1 and apply its result to both effects?

A few concerns. Charisma dependence here is extreme, even for a caster. A sorceror with only 12 charisma shouldn't exactly be an optimized character anyway, but with your current design he can barely do anything at level 1.

Protect seems ... strikingly weak. I guess at low levels (and with a decent Charisma) it's actually not bad, but later on it seems it would become obsolete fast.

Forceful with the Force seed sucks, since it will only ever have a +1 Str bonus.

Other than that, I'd have to try to build some characters and see how they work out.

I appreciate the ideas, though, in any case, since I'm trying to come up with a Seed system for magic in my own system anyway.

[MageSparrowhawk]

This is very interesting, and oddly similar to something I've been working on. once again though (just like many of the systems like this that I've seen) is how limited it actually is. Granted, it covers the major points-damage, protection, standard buffs like flight- but it doesn't allow for many of the myriad of things you can 'do with magic'. This is, of course, a moot point if you were just planning on a sorcerer being a blaster. Which could work very well, depending on the options available to other casters...

@Draz74 I'm interested in what you're working on, as my mechanic has kinda died on me when I started looking at how difficult it would be to correctly build and balance. If you're willing, I'd like to see what you've done.

[Ashtagon]

As far as I can tell, this class seems to reduce the sorcerer to a blaster-only role. I admit the original srd class wasn't exactly flexible, but this doesn't much better. Am I missing something here?

[Fax Celestis]

Question: since seed secrets are so rare, why have some of them be so specialized? Who would use a secret slot, of which there are only six, solely to target oozes with the light seed? it's too specialized. Seems like you could just pile the ooze secret into the undead secret and not overpower it. It's the same effect, after all.

Good point. Think I could put the Plants one on there too?

Huh.

Usually, when you put up a new class, my reaction is, "Well, it's got a couple good ideas in it. And it looks well-balanced with Fax's other classes. Overall it looks like it will fit well in his system. But it just doesn't float my boat -- mostly, it's just too complicated."

This one? Much more elegant. I like it.

Thanks.

That said, I'm also confused by it. So even though these are called "spells," they have nothing to do with other classes' spellcasting systems? These are the only effects a sorceror (you changed the spelling on purpose?) can accomplish with his magic? Not saying this is bad, just surprising given how much of the Wizard spell list you're leaving intact.

And I didn't see a daily limit on Spellweaving or anything, so I'm assuming this is supposed to be d20r's version of the Dragonfire Adept -- blast away every round, all day. Actually, that better be the case, because the effects here turn out to be a good deal weaker than Wizards can pull off at the same level.

Correct. I felt that this was a more accurate representation of someone working with the fundamentals of magic rather than just making the wizard spontaneous. There's no daily limit on Spellweaving, no.

As far as wizard v. sorceror casting potential, the wizard is going to be limited in his spell selection: school focus will be forced, and banned schools will increase. Meanwhile, seeds can be added to the sorceror without issue, just as spells can be added to the wizard's or cleric's lists.

Another clarification: If a sorcerer hurls a spell with the Acid and Entangle seeds, does the target make 2 Reflex saves? Or make 1 and apply its result to both effects?

One. It's pretty clear from the core rules (at least, I think so anyway), that most effects only apply one kind of save once.

A few concerns. Charisma dependence here is extreme, even for a caster. A sorceror with only 12 charisma shouldn't exactly be an optimized character anyway, but with your current design he can barely do anything at level 1.

Well, yes, but then maybe sorcery isn't a natural inclination with such a poor Charisma. See, Charisma's strong for this sorceror, sure, but it's not the be-all-end-all: with a feat expenditure (for Perceptive Spellweaving), the sorceror can be almost entirely Wisdom-based instead.

Protect seems ... strikingly weak. I guess at low levels (and with a decent Charisma) it's actually not bad, but later on it seems it would become obsolete fast.

It would seem that way until you consider coupling it with the Sphere, Line, or Cone seeds.

Forceful with the Force seed sucks, since it will only ever have a +1 Str bonus.

Ooh, good point. Copypasta from the Fire seed has failed me.

Other than that, I'd have to try to build some characters and see how they work out.

I appreciate the ideas, though, in any case, since I'm trying to come up with a Seed system for magic in my own system anyway.

I actually was originally going to base it off of epic magic, but I think I liked this fashion better. Now to go make that Weaver of the Apocalypse PrC (who gains access to the Famine, Plague, War, Death, and Apocalypse seeds) and a Hexblade knockoff who has the Drain, Hex, and some other seeds. I really really like this Spellweaving mechanic.

This is very interesting, and oddly similar to something I've been working on. once again though (just like many of the systems like this that I've seen) is how limited it actually is. Granted, it covers the major points-damage, protection, standard buffs like flight- but it doesn't allow for many of the myriad of things you can 'do with magic'. This is, of course, a moot point if you were just planning on a sorcerer being a blaster. Which could work very well, depending on the options available to other casters...

Well, the idea is modularity. Rather than making a new class every time you come up with an idea, just make a new seed. These seeds are far from the be-all-end-all of what a sorceror can do, so the introduction of new seeds (even prestige seeds!) is incredibly easy.

As far as I can tell, this class seems to reduce the sorcerer to a blaster-only role. I admit the original srd class wasn't exactly flexible, but this doesn't much better. Am I missing something here?

Modularity. As I stated above, this sorceror (along with pretty much any of my other d20r classes) is designed to be very plug-n-play. I liken most of the wizard's power in the 3.5e game to the fact that he has options that are orders of magnitude more numerous than nearly any other class. Certainly, some of these options are broken by themselves, but fundamentally the brokenness of the wizard class (and, perhaps even to a greater extent, the druid and cleric classes) comes from having more options than other, non-spellcasting classes. As such, I'm attempting to give each class the potential for options, so that if--and when--I begin supplementing this material with new material, you won't see a "new spells" chapter; you'll see a "new options" chapter that contains rogue powers, fencer maneuvers, sorceror seeds, wizard spells, druid binds, and so on.

[MammonAzrael]

On the Basics:

• The HD, BAB, saves look good.
• Both their Skills and Prowess basically being the lowest option seems like a bit much to sacrifice for their unique Warlock-like endurance spellcasting.
• The number of Seeds and Secrets gained could be just fine, but also might be a little low (especially the Secrets).
• Spellweaving is awesome. Bravo, sir, for opening that can of mix-n-match worms.
• Bonus feats and Spell Shielding seem fine for extra class features.
• Seed Secrets are great.

Questions:

• Are Spheres ranged, or centered on the caster?
• Regarding the Drain Seed, what is negative energy? Damage, level drain, etc?
• The Draining Secret seems a bit underwhelming to only last 1 round
• Lingering -- Acid, Electricity both have the Lingering secret, but both specify dealing different types of damage. Would one Lingering secret count for all of them, or not?
• Do Clinging and Lingering stack? And what constitutes elemental damage?
• Would the damage from the Caustic or Vicious secrets apply to the Lingering damage?
• Would the damage from the Searing secret apply to the Igniting secret?
• Is there any limit to the number of secrets you can stack onto a spell, and can you stack the same secret?
• The Forceful secret seems to be increadibly weak when paired with the Force seed, since it will only ever have one die of damage.
• With the Double-Hexing secret, can you choose the same option, effectively doubling the penalty?
• The Protect seed seems a little weak (especially since it's touch). Perhaps an extra 3 damage prevented for 2 SP?
• Should the Discriminating Secret allow you to target enemies or allies, so you could add it to beneficial seeds like Protect?
• If you applied the Farsensing secret to a spell, would it apply only to the parts of the spell from the Sense seed, or to every part of the spell?
• The Immobilizing secret seems much weak than the Paralyzing secret (yeah, I know some things are immune to paralysis, but that doesn't seem to be enough of a balance for how great paralysis is...)
• Why does Extra Seed Secret have such a high Wisdom Prereq? I didn't notice Wisdom being desired anywhere in the Sorcerer class description.
• Why can Extra Seed Secret only apply to a seed once, instead of just getting different secrets separately?
• When you learn Seed Secret, do you only gain one secret, or do you select a Seed and gain all it's Secrets? Your wording currently is unclear.
• What's this [Investing] feat keyword? Is that the keyword for your Prowess-enhanced feats?
• Ashtagon brings up the good point of making this very blaster heavy. I can respect the difficulty and making non-blasty seeds, but it could use more utility. And no Teleport/Dimension Door Seed? Did you want suggestions on more Seeds to add? Utility or blasty?
• Why are nearly all the damage spells Rays that also allow a save, when it is typically one of the other in 3.5?
• I agree that the Sorcerer is almost absurdly dependant on a good Cha, especially early in the game, where he might have to take Light or Protect as his first Seed because he can't afford anything else.
• Some Seeds, like Light, seems nearly useless until you gain access to it's Secret (like, why wouldn't you just use Sense to give everyone Darkvision instead?)

Overall, I really like it. Just needs some tweaking and tuning. I'd be more than happy to come up with some Seed ideas if you're looking for extra input.

[Fax Celestis]

[*]Are Spheres ranged, or centered on the caster?

Per the Spellweaving text: "Unless otherwise noted, the range on a sorceror’s spell using this ability is 25’ plus 5’ per 2 sorceror levels."

[*]Regarding the Drain Seed, what is negative energy? Damage, level drain, etc?

Negative energy damage. I should clarify that.

[*]The Draining Secret seems a bit underwhelming to only last 1 round

I suppose. Rounds equal to dice of negative energy damage dealt?

[*]Lingering -- Acid, Electricity both have the Lingering secret, but both specify dealing different types of damage. Would one Lingering secret count for all of them, or not?

It would, but you'd have to activate it individually. I might change that text to be "dice of damage from this seed."

[*]Do Clinging and Lingering stack? And what constitutes elemental damage?

"Elemental damage" is commonly defined as "acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic". Clinging and Lingering do stack.

[*]Would the damage from the Caustic or Vicious secrets apply to the Lingering damage?

Yes, but at half power.

[*]Would the damage from the Searing secret apply to the Igniting secret?

Yes.

[*]Is there any limit to the number of secrets you can stack onto a spell, and can you stack the same secret?

No on both counts.

[*]The Forceful secret seems to be increadibly weak when paired with the Force seed, since it will only ever have one die of damage.

Yeah, but I'm not sure how to change that.

[*]With the Double-Hexing secret, can you choose the same option, effectively doubling the penalty?

No.

[*]The Protect seed seems a little weak (especially since it's touch). Perhaps an extra 3 damage prevented for 2 SP?

Imagine coupling it with Sphere.

[*]Should the Discriminating Secret allow you to target enemies or allies, so you could add it to beneficial seeds like Protect?

Maybe. I kinda wanted it to be a choice.

[*]If you applied the Farsensing secret to a spell, would it apply only to the parts of the spell from the Sense seed, or to every part of the spell?

Just from the Sense seed.

[*]The Immobilizing secret seems much weak than the Paralyzing secret (yeah, I know some things are immune to paralysis, but that doesn't seem to be enough of a balance for how great paralysis is...)

That's essentially the choice point. Immobilizing works on nearly anything, while Paralyzing is better but only works on some things.

[*]Why does Extra Seed Secret have such a high Wisdom Prereq? I didn't notice Wisdom being desired anywhere in the Sorcerer class description.

That's failed copypasta. It should be Cha.

[*]Why can Extra Seed Secret only apply to a seed once, instead of just getting different secrets separately?

That's...a good question. I'll need to rephrase that.

[*]When you learn Seed Secret, do you only gain one secret, or do you select a Seed and gain all it's Secrets? Your wording currently is unclear.

One secret.

[*]What's this [Investing] feat keyword? Is that the keyword for your Prowess-enhanced feats?

Yes.

[*]Ashtagon brings up the good point of making this very blaster heavy. I can respect the difficulty and making non-blasty seeds, but it could use more utility. And no Teleport/Dimension Door Seed? Did you want suggestions on more Seeds to add? Utility or blasty?

Yes on both counts.

[*]Why are nearly all the damage spells Rays that also allow a save, when it is typically one of the other in 3.5?

I wanted it to have a save inherent to the seed and also to make it so that secondary effects (like stunning or paralysis) weren't no-save.

[*]I agree that the Sorcerer is almost absurdly dependant on a good Cha, especially early in the game, where he might have to take Light or Protect as his first Seed because he can't afford anything else.

Like I said before, the sorceror can swap over nearly completely to Wis with one feat.

[*]Some Seeds, like Light, seems nearly useless until you gain access to it's Secret (like, why wouldn't you just use Sense to give everyone Darkvision instead?)

I figured light was a rather fundamental ability of magic, and wanted to include it as a seed.

Overall, I really like it. Just needs some tweaking and tuning. I'd be more than happy to come up with some Seed ideas if you're looking for extra input.

I most certainly am. You can probably see from what I have where a good measure of balance is.

[Draz74]

One. It's pretty clear from the core rules (at least, I think so anyway), that most effects only apply one kind of save once.

Yes, but then, most effects don't apply more than one kind of save at all.

Well, yes, but then maybe sorcery isn't a natural inclination with such a poor Charisma. See, Charisma's strong for this sorceror, sure, but it's not the be-all-end-all: with a feat expenditure (for Perceptive Spellweaving), the sorceror can be almost entirely Wisdom-based instead.

Seems like that would mean he'd just be really dependent on having high Charisma *and* Wisdom.

It would seem that way until you consider coupling it with the Sphere, Line, or Cone seeds.

Hmmm ... maybe. Wait, does this work like Resist Energy (i.e. kind of like DR), or like Protection from Energy (i.e. kind of like temporary hit points)? Because it sounds like the latter, but the former would definitely be more worthwhile -- especially as far as extending the duration of the spell is concerned.

Ooh, good point. Copypasta from the Fire seed has failed me.

Yeah, I figured that was the issue.

I actually was originally going to base it off of epic magic, but I think I liked this fashion better. Now to go make that Weaver of the Apocalypse PrC (who gains access to the Famine, Plague, War, Death, and Apocalypse seeds) and a Hexblade knockoff who has the Drain, Hex, and some other seeds. I really really like this Spellweaving mechanic.

Agreed. Now I need to figure out how much of it I'm going to mooch use.

[Morty]

Well, it looks neat. I have one issue, though: 1st level Sorceror is preety much forced to take some sort of offensive Seed or else he won't do much in combat. Also, it's not really backwards compatibile with 3ed core Sorcerer, which might cause problems if someone wishes to play in an estabilished setting... but then, it's Wizards' fault for making Sorcered indishinguishible from Wizard. I thought of that because I'm thinking of trying to stat out some Faerunian big fishes with this.

[Fax Celestis]

Yes, but then, most effects don't apply more than one kind of save at all.

True. The end-all is that it should only apply each kind of save once.

Seems like that would mean he'd just be really dependent on having high Charisma *and* Wisdom.

Oh, I forgot about DCs. Good point.

Hmmm ... maybe. Wait, does this work like Resist Energy (i.e. kind of like DR), or like Protection from Energy (i.e. kind of like temporary hit points)? Because it sounds like the latter, but the former would definitely be more worthwhile -- especially as far as extending the duration of the spell is concerned.

Actually it works more like stoneskin.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I have a question: What happens when you mix n match different effects that have different resists?

Example 1: I have Acid and Cone spheres, and have chosen Nausiating. So I have a Cone effect which is a Reflex for half, but after that is it a Fort save for Nausiating? Will making the Reflex save negate the need for the Fort save? What if I have Evasion, if I take no damage, will I still need to make the Fort save?

Example 2: I have Ice, Fire, and Cone seeds. I choose to make a Cone with both Fire and Ice damage. Ice is a Fort save, but Fire is a Reflex save, which do I use?

[MammonAzrael]

I suppose. Rounds equal to dice of negative energy damage dealt?

Sounds much better!

It would, but you'd have to activate it individually. I might change that text to be "dice of damage from this seed."

So, if I'm getting this, you can learn Lingering, and you know it for all Seeds. But if you want it to applying to both Acid and Electricity damage on the same spell, you'd have to apply it twice (which I don't think you can do since you can't stack the same Secret).

And not to be super nit-picky, but why do Acid and Electricity share the same Secret, while Ice and Fire have their own unique Secrets. It seems to me that Seeds that share Secrets will have better synergy, and wind up creating more powerful spells overall. May be a balance issue, that could be addressed either by not sharing Secrets, or by spreading some Secrets around more.

"Elemental damage" is commonly defined as "acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic". Clinging and Lingering do stack.

So the spell would deal half elemental damage and half it's Acid/Electricity damage the next round (effectively the creature is hit by full Acid/Electricity damage the next round)? Why would you want to focus on Fire or Cold when you could get such a bigger damage output that way?

Yes, but at half power.

So...if you did 1d4+1 acid damage from a Lingering Caustic Acid Seed, and roll a 2, the next round the target would take 1 acid damage plus 0 uber-acid damage, and if you did 2d4+2 it would take 2 acid and 1 uber-acid?

Yeah, but I'm not sure how to change that.

Perhaps the STR bonus is just equal to the minimum damage possible? It would keep the Fire Seed at +1 per die, and give the Force Seed a boost for every extra +1 damage. Hmm...Might not work with the Searing Secret, or mixing with other Seeds...Truly, I shall ponder.

Imagine coupling it with Sphere.

So you could either apply that protection to everyone in range (including enemies), or just enemies? And the amount of protection/rounds is reduced by 5+? Still not seeming that strong.

Maybe. I kinda wanted it to be a choice.

There could be another Secret that lets you target only allies.

I wanted it to have a save inherent to the seed and also to make it so that secondary effects (like stunning or paralysis) weren't no-save.

Ahh, that makes sense.

Like I said before, the sorceror can swap over nearly completely to Wis with one feat.

But then it's crazy dependent on Wisdom (no to mention the Cha DC you pointed out. Maybe if they got 3 + class level + Cha/Wis. It's really only the starting levels that really feel like they need a boost. The real comment, I guess, is that it is so heavily dependent upon a single attribute, just to be able to use it's main class feature, especially in the early game.

I figured light was a rather fundamental ability of magic, and wanted to include it as a seed.

True, and I like that it's cheap. Perhaps a Sorceror gains two Seeds at first level, so they can star off with a little variety, like one damage and one utility Seed?



You'll probably want to clarify that you must choose a different stat to apply the penalty to with the Double-Hexing Secret, and that the Farsensing Secret only applies to the Sense Seed.

Also, are you purposely calling it a Sorceror instead of a Sorcerer?

[Draz74]

True. The end-all is that it should only apply each kind of save once.

Cool.

Oh, I forgot about DCs. Good point.

And the fact that Charisma still applies. It's not like Monks who get to add a really high WIS bonus to AC stop trying to boost their DEX, too.

Actually it works more like stoneskin.

Ah, well, that's pretty much what I meant by pseudo-DR a la Resist Energy. In that case, it's much more powerful, but needs to be reworded, so that it's clear the protection doesn't wear off after it's been used against one attack.

[Fax Celestis]

I have a question: What happens when you mix n match different effects that have different resists?

Example 1: I have Acid and Cone spheres, and have chosen Nausiating. So I have a Cone effect which is a Reflex for half, but after that is it a Fort save for Nausiating? Will making the Reflex save negate the need for the Fort save? What if I have Evasion, if I take no damage, will I still need to make the Fort save?

Example 2: I have Ice, Fire, and Cone seeds. I choose to make a Cone with both Fire and Ice damage. Ice is a Fort save, but Fire is a Reflex save, which do I use?

You make both saves. If you pass the Reflex but fail the Fort, then you take half fire but full ice. If you have Evasion, you'd take no fire but full cold.

So, if I'm getting this, you can learn Lingering, and you know it for all Seeds. But if you want it to applying to both Acid and Electricity damage on the same spell, you'd have to apply it twice (which I don't think you can do since you can't stack the same Secret).

And not to be super nit-picky, but why do Acid and Electricity share the same Secret, while Ice and Fire have their own unique Secrets. It seems to me that Seeds that share Secrets will have better synergy, and wind up creating more powerful spells overall. May be a balance issue, that could be addressed either by not sharing Secrets, or by spreading some Secrets around more.

Yeah, that had occured to me, but I didn't see it as a significant balance issue. Prove me wrong, however, and I'll happily change it.

So the spell would deal half elemental damage and half it's Acid/Electricity damage the next round (effectively the creature is hit by full Acid/Electricity damage the next round)? Why would you want to focus on Fire or Cold when you could get such a bigger damage output that way?

Because Acid works in d4s, and you wouldn't be able to pull this off until 8th level at minimum (well, 6th if you wanted to spend a feat on it). Also, Fire has the advantage of all those other secrets, and Cold has the advantage of targeting the Fort save.

So...if you did 1d4+1 acid damage from a Lingering Caustic Acid Seed, and roll a 2, the next round the target would take 1 acid damage plus 0 uber-acid damage, and if you did 2d4+2 it would take 2 acid and 1 uber-acid?

The "halving" rules are always weird, and in fact there's no direct interpretation on how to do it. My general method is to reroll the same damage as before, and then halve the output.

Perhaps the STR bonus is just equal to the minimum damage possible? It would keep the Fire Seed at +1 per die, and give the Force Seed a boost for every extra +1 damage. Hmm...Might not work with the Searing Secret, or mixing with other Seeds...Truly, I shall ponder.

You see my conundrum.

So you could either apply that protection to everyone in range (including enemies), or just enemies? And the amount of protection/rounds is reduced by 5+? Still not seeming that strong.

Hm. Point taken. How do I change it, then?

There could be another Secret that lets you target only allies.

Could work.

But then it's crazy dependent on Wisdom (no to mention the Cha DC you pointed out. Maybe if they got 3 + class level + Cha/Wis. It's really only the starting levels that really feel like they need a boost. The real comment, I guess, is that it is so heavily dependent upon a single attribute, just to be able to use it's main class feature, especially in the early game.

I guess 3 extra points couldn't be terribly broken, so yeah, I'll add that in.

True, and I like that it's cheap. Perhaps a Sorceror gains two Seeds at first level, so they can star off with a little variety, like one damage and one utility Seed?

Might work. I'm also pondering giving them a living spellseed familiar, but I'd have to develop the template for that.

You'll probably want to clarify that you must choose a different stat to apply the penalty to with the Double-Hexing Secret, and that the Farsensing Secret only applies to the Sense Seed.

Doing so.

Also, are you purposely calling it a Sorceror instead of a Sorcerer?

Yes.

[Fax Celestis]

Okay, some edits. Protect is now at a 1 SP to 2 DR ratio; Drain gives Temp HP for rounds equal to negative energy dice; Discriminating property allows choice of friend or foe; Spellweaving is 3 + Level + Cha; the Seed Secret class feature specifies one secret, not all from one seed; expanded description of how saves work; changed text on Lingering property; clarified Clinging property; clarified Double-Hexing property; coupled Ooze-Killing and Undead-Slaying into the Pure property; clarified Farsensing to apply only to the Sense seed; altered the Special line on the Extra Spell Secret feat; gave the sorceror 4 + Int skills.

[MammonAzrael]

Yeah, that had occured to me, but I didn't see it as a significant balance issue. Prove me wrong, however, and I'll happily change it.

I don't see it as any huge balance issue, just that the Sorcerors that choose certain Seeds will effectively wind up getting extra Secrets, since they'll be able to apply one to several Seeds. Nothing huge, just something I noticed. Perhaps changing Caustic/Vicious/Searing/Freezing into a single Secret, that isn't bound by type, but rather the Seed it's applied to, like how Lingering is now.

[QUOTE=Fax Celestis;5703989]Because Acid works in d4s, and you wouldn't be able to pull this off until 8th level at minimum (well, 6th if you wanted to spend a feat on it). Also, Fire has the advantage of all those other secrets, and Cold has the advantage of targeting the Fort save.

The "halving" rules are always weird, and in fact there's no direct interpretation on how to do it. My general method is to reroll the same damage as before, and then halve the output.

That's one way. I typically just take whatever damage was dealt last turn and halve that. *shrug* What I was confused on was how much of that halved damage would punch through immunity.

Hm. Point taken. How do I change it, then?

The two ideas that pop instantly to mind are increasing the ratio to perhaps 2SP for 3 damage, or changing it to a ranged ability, so you can give it to frontliners without wading in yourself. Though the various shape Seeds sorta do that already.

Might work. I'm also pondering giving them a living spellseed familiar, but I'd have to develop the template for that.

That could be very cool. Especially if you could modify it as you learned additional Seeds and Secrets. Very awesome.

Oh, and it might be a good idea to clarify that some Seed abilities can only be used after the "initial" ability has been bought. (like the Entangle Seed could currently extend the entangle duration of an already entangled creature without using the 4 SP option).

[ShneekeyTheLost]

How about this for a Seed Mastery for the Drain seed:

Enervating: also bestows two negative levels to anyone damaged by the negative energy damage

[Fax Celestis]

Oh, and it might be a good idea to clarify that some Seed abilities can only be used after the "initial" ability has been bought. (like the Entangle Seed could currently extend the entangle duration of an already entangled creature without using the 4 SP option).

That's already in place:

Seed Secret (Ex): At fifth level and each three levels thereafter (8th, 11th, 14th, 17th, and 20th), the sorceror gains the knowledge of the inner workings of one of his seeds. He selects one secret from a seed he knows. When casting a spell using his Spellweaving class feature, he may apply one or more seed secrets to spells that he casts.

In order to apply a seed secret, he must utilize the seed that the secret is associated with: therefore, a sorceror could not cast a spell that dealt 2d6 cold damage (using the Ice seed) and apply the Fire seed's Igniting secret to the spell. However, if the spell dealt 2d6 cold damage (using the Ice seed) and 1d6 fire damage (using the Fire seed), the sorceror could apply the Igniting secret.

To apply a secret, a sorceror spends 1 SP when casting the spell. A secret may only be applied to a spell once.

Some secrets can be learned from multiple seeds. If this is the case, you must only learn the secret once to be able to apply it to any applicable seeds, and may only apply it once even if you use two or more of the parent seeds in a spell. For instance, if you learn the Strong secret from the Fire seed, you may apply the Strong secret when using the Acid seed, and when using both the Acid and Fire seeds you may only apply the Strong secret once.

[Fax Celestis]

Since I don't have time to do them now, seed ideas:

Conceal: +stealth checks, invisibility; personal range
Detect: detect alignment, see invisibility, detect magic
Dispel: dispelling
Heal: Prestige Seed: +heal checks, fast healing X for Y rounds, positive energy damage v. undead

[Renegade Paladin]

Sorcerer.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Sorcerer.

Also, are you purposely calling it a Sorceror instead of a Sorcerer?

Yes.

Open Mouth, Insert Foot. Have a nice day.

[MammonAzrael]

I wasn't talking about Secrets, but the Seeds that have more than one base ability, like Entangle.

The Enervating Secret seems way too strong (a 2 level drain for only 6 SP, spamable every round? Yes please! I'd say reduce it to 1 level, and they don't get the negative level if they succeed on the Fort save). You may have some clause like that, and I'm just not spotting it.

Seeds

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Strength

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Shape: Touch

Save: None
*4 SP: the target gains a +2 enhancement bonus to strength for 1 minute.
*8 SP: the enhancement bonus to strength increases by an additional +2.
*3 SP: the duration is increased by 1 minute.

Secrets
*Guarding: the target is immune to ability damage for this ability for the duration of the spell.

Note -- this can be translated tot he other 5 attributes easily.

Conceal

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Shape: Personal

Save: None
*2 SP: the target gets a +4 competence bonus on Stealth checks for 1 round.
*1 SP: the competence bonus on Steal checks is increased by 1.
*9 SP: the target is invisible for 1 round.
*1 SP: increase the duration by 1 round.

Secrets
*Allied: you may apply this effect to one target you are touching.
*Hidden: the target is invisible to darkvision.

Teleport

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Shape: Personal

Save: Will negates
*8 SP: you teleport to any unoccupied square within your spell range.
*1 SP: increase the range by 10'

Secrets
*Allied: you may apply this effect to one target you are touching.
*Hostile: you may apply this effect to one enemy as a touch attack.

Heal

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Shape: Touch

Save: Fort negates
*2 SP: the target gets a +4 competence bonus on Heal checks for 1 round.
*1 SP: the competence bonus on Heal checks is increased by 1.
*5 SP: the target gains Fast Healing 1 for 1 round. This Fast Healing only works when the target has less than half it's HP.
*2 SP: increase the Fast Healing gained by 1.
*1 SP: increase the duration by 1 round.

Secrets
*Invigorating: the target gain temporary HP equal to the number of rounds the spell lasts.
*Refreshing: the target is cured of fatigue and exhaustion, and is immune to those conditions for the duration of the spell.
*Restorative: the target heals 1 point of ability damage or drain, or 1 negative level.

Note -- I think Light is the way to go it you want to nuke undead.

Cruel

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Shape: Ray

Save: Reflex half
*4 SP: +1d10 physical damage. You take 1 damage that can't be prevented.

Secrets
*Forceful: the spell bull-rushes the target, using a Strength bonus equal to the total number of dice of damage this spell inflicts.
*Nauseating: the target is nauseated for one round. A Fortitude save negates this effect.
*Strong: +1 DC
*Wounding: +1 constitution damage.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I wasn't talking about Secrets, but the Seeds that have more than one base ability, like Entangle.

The Enervating Secret seems way too strong (a 2 level drain for only 6 SP, spamable every round? Yes please! I'd say reduce it to 1 level, and they don't get the negative level if they succeed on the Fort save). You may have some clause like that, and I'm just not spotting it.

Seeds

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Strength

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Shape: Touch

Save: None
*4 SP: the target gains a +2 enhancement bonus to strength for 1 minute.
*8 SP: the enhancement bonus to strength increases by an additional +2.
*3 SP: the duration is increased by 1 minute.

Secrets
*Guarding: the target is immune to ability damage for this ability for the duration of the spell.

Note -- this can be translated tot he other 5 attributes easily.

Conceal

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Shape: Personal

Save: None
*2 SP: the target gets a +4 competence bonus on Stealth checks for 1 round.
*1 SP: the competence bonus on Steal checks is increased by 1.
*9 SP: the target is invisible for 1 round.
*1 SP: increase the duration by 1 round.

Secrets
*Allied: you may apply this effect to one target you are touching.
*Hidden: the target is invisible to darkvision.

Teleport

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Shape: Personal

Save: Will negates
*8 SP: you teleport to any unoccupied square within your spell range.
*1 SP: increase the range by 10'

Secrets
*Allied: you may apply this effect to one target you are touching.
*Hostile: you may apply this effect to one enemy as a touch attack.

Heal

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Shape: Touch

Save: Fort negates
*2 SP: the target gets a +4 competence bonus on Heal checks for 1 round.
*1 SP: the competence bonus on Heal checks is increased by 1.
*5 SP: the target gains Fast Healing 1 for 1 round. This Fast Healing only works when the target has less than half it's HP.
*2 SP: increase the Fast Healing gained by 1.
*1 SP: increase the duration by 1 round.

Secrets
*Invigorating: the target gain temporary HP equal to the number of rounds the spell lasts.
*Refreshing: the target is cured of fatigue and exhaustion, and is immune to those conditions for the duration of the spell.
*Restorative: the target heals 1 point of ability damage or drain, or 1 negative level.

Note -- I think Light is the way to go it you want to nuke undead.

Cruel

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Shape: Ray

Save: Reflex half
*4 SP: +1d10 physical damage. You take 1 damage that can't be prevented.

Secrets
*Forceful: the spell bull-rushes the target, using a Strength bonus equal to the total number of dice of damage this spell inflicts.
*Nauseating: the target is nauseated for one round. A Fortitude save negates this effect.
*Strong: +1 DC
*Wounding: +1 constitution damage.

Why not? Warlocks can do it with Utterdark Blast, which is where I got the idea from. And a Fort save is inherent in the Drain seed.

[MammonAzrael]

Why not? Warlocks can do it with Utterdark Blast, which is where I got the idea from. And a Fort save is inherent in the Drain seed.

Because Warlocks can't do it until level 16 at the earliest. These guys can get it at level five.

[Fax Celestis]

Why not? Warlocks can do it with Utterdark Blast, which is where I got the idea from. And a Fort save is inherent in the Drain seed.

Yeah. Still, I'm lowering it to one negative level.

[Fax Celestis]

Because Warlocks can't do it until level 16 at the earliest. These guys can get it at level five.

/me adds a bunch of Mammon's seeds.

I think I'm going to hold off on Heal and Strength for now. I think I'm going to make those prestige seeds.

[Renegade Paladin]

Open Mouth, Insert Foot. Have a nice day.

No thanks. I saw that; being intentionally wrong is still wrong. "Sorceror" is not a word; it's a misspelling.

[Draz74]

So, the Fly seed can only ever grant Average maneuverability at best? Seems like the Agile secret could be a little more generous, like, +1 maneuverability class for every 20 feet of speed added or something.

[Fax Celestis]

So, the Fly seed can only ever grant Average maneuverability at best? Seems like the Agile secret could be a little more generous, like, +1 maneuverability class for every 20 feet of speed added or something.

That's a pretty elegant solution to that problem. I'll fix that now.