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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #857 - The Discussion Thread

    How is possible that V got healed in the next-to-last panel? I don't like this strip that much. Nale looks like he is deliberately wasting Malack's mummies (he certainly does not give a damn about them), Sabine is useless as is most of the time. We don't even know if the pit mummy functions or not, because they have X all the time.

    No, obviously I do not 100% know what is going on in the Giant's mind and do not actually know with 100% certainty that V is on a redemption arc, but everything s/he has done since the awful Familicide action has indicated a deep sense of regret and desire to be a better person, which indicates via foreshadowing and subtext that this is the direction the story's going.
    May I remind you V's horrible treatment of dominated kobold? And she did not regret Familicide at all until now that she learned that she killed off people as well. She was "regretting" only her unwise strategy in the duel against Xykon

  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: OOTS #857 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by greatscott View Post
    Your fault!

    How do you deal with the responsibility for genocide. The crow should basically perform a suicide watch :(
    Other responses would be:

    Where's my share of the XP?
    Do I get to kill them twice? Does that mean I get double XP?

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: OOTS #857 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    So this mummy uses guilt as a weapon?

    So did mine!
    Touché, sir. Touché.
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  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: OOTS #857 - The Discussion Thread

    Okaaay...

    Anyone want to take bets on whether that mummy will follow Vaarsuvius into the passwall?

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  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: OOTS #857 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 2323mike View Post
    How is possible that V got healed in the next-to-last panel?
    Art error. It happens sometimes.
    Nale looks like he is deliberately wasting Malack's mummies (he certainly does not give a damn about them)
    How is he deliberately wasting them? He's put them up front so they'll take the brunt of any attacks, which is a wise decision - and Sabine made the mistake of missing a trap. The Guild have all the attack power, and the mummies are just there to cover them and waste the Order's resources. No, he doesn't care about them, really. He'd be annoyed if they ALL fell into a trap, for sure, but one less mummy isn't really a big deal to him.
    Sabine is useless as is most of the time.
    Sabine was actually very useful in the recent Order vs Guild battle.
    We don't even know if the pit mummy functions or not, because they have X all the time.
    True. However, that uncertainty adds more suspense - a mummy that the Order thought they had killed suddenly could rise back up again. It certaintly would get confusing in a large scale battle, but I doubt there will be any major problems with it.

  6. - Top - End - #66
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    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #857 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
    You know, there was this guy who tried to do that once... only his crime was so great that one lifetime's worth of good deeds wouldn't make up for it, so he bargained with a hag to become immortal. She removed his mortality from his body, so that every time he died he would rise again shortly after (although, unbeknownst to him, another person somewhere across the planes would die in his place). It... um... did not turn out quite the way he'd hoped. Each death also caused him to lose his memory. He existed for thousands of years, no one knows how many times he "died," and in the end, probably just ended up having damned himself far far worse than he had been in the first place.
    Holy baby Jesus on a pogo stick, if this is the resolution to a certain piece of media, I should definately give it a second try.
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  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: OOTS #857 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 2323mike View Post
    How is possible that V got healed in the next-to-last panel?
    Quote Originally Posted by Snippy View Post
    Art error. It happens sometimes.
    And here I thought I would be the first to point it out
    Still, we are already at page 3, so compliments to the giant for excellent storytelling, no one noticed it for the first two pages, and I needed four readings to notice it, too!

    I hope this one will get fixed, like Xykon after the Sunburst.

  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Default Re: OOTS #857 - The Discussion Thread

    Interesting strip.
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  9. - Top - End - #69
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #857 - The Discussion Thread

    So....

    Is Z calling the trap before the mummy springs it? Unclear.

    The trap apparently does less than ~55 hp of damage (given the mummy is still alive), which means that V was probably not as wounded as we thought. Maybe a lot of cosmetic damage.

    Mummy rot is a curse, not a disease. Personally, I think it would take an attempt on the mummy's part, not just falling. It isn't a "touch" thing.

    Looks like V failed her will save... if so, it is pretty impressive she was able to cast a spell. Probably just Giant ignoring the details here for the sake of the story.

    So now that V is running away really fast, she can run right into the next trap!

    Also, V did not commit genocide. There are still black dragons left, but she did kill about 1/3rd of them as I recall.

  10. - Top - End - #70
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    Default Re: OOTS #857 - The Discussion Thread

    Good comic.
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    Default Re: OOTS #857 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jidasfire View Post
    Okay, I've got to ask. You know full well that the Giant's intent is for Vaarsuvius to have committed a terrible mistake, and now s/he's on an arc of redemption, attempting to put right what s/he did wrong. The story seems to be going in the direction of him/her even achieving that eventually. So really, why so much hatred?
    [...]
    Pre-counter-argument: No, obviously I do not 100% know what is going on in the Giant's mind and do not actually know with 100% certainty that V is on a redemption arc, but everything s/he has done since the awful Familicide action has indicated a deep sense of regret and desire to be a better person, which indicates via foreshadowing and subtext that this is the direction the story's going.
    You think, "Oh woe is me, the genocide spell I cast accidentally hit mostly-humans and I should have anticipated that possibility" shows that Vaarsuvius is moving in the direction of, "Oh woe is me, I cast a genocide spell"?

    I sure don't. I care a great deal about the direction the story's going; to be precise, his/her blubbering about having accidentally killed the Draketooths has me concerned that those of us who want Vaarsuvius to pay for his/her actions are going to be fobbed off with, "S/he feels guilty for something connected to the Familicide! That makes up for the fact that s/he will never acknowledge that what s/he was trying to do was a horrific Xykon-level atrocity, unintended consequences be damned!"

  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Default Re: OOTS #857 - The Discussion Thread

    Run V run!

  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Default Re: OOTS #857 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gusion View Post
    Also, V did not commit genocide. There are still black dragons left, but she did kill about 1/3rd of them as I recall.
    When it's humans, we talk about genocide even though there are much more than just two thirds of all humans left. The only difference here is that the dragons who were killed just shared a relative, not a cultural identity.

  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Default Re: OOTS #857 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    You think, "Oh woe is me, the genocide spell I cast accidentally hit mostly-humans and I should have anticipated that possibility" shows that Vaarsuvius is moving in the direction of, "Oh woe is me, I cast a genocide spell"?

    I sure don't. I care a great deal about the direction the story's going; to be precise, his/her blubbering about having accidentally killed the Draketooths has me concerned that those of us who want Vaarsuvius to pay for his/her actions are going to be fobbed off with, "S/he feels guilty for something connected to the Familicide! That makes up for the fact that s/he will never acknowledge that what s/he was trying to do was a horrific Xykon-level atrocity, unintended consequences be damned!"
    But you don't KNOW that will be the case at all. The Giant has repeatedly drawn our attention to the horrors of familicide before we knew it killed non-dragons.

    No one here thinks V is fine and dandy, but the people who show up in every single discussion to say "GOOD I CAN'T WAIT FOR V TO SUFFER IN A MILLION WAYS" are adding nothing we don't already know.

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    GreataxeFighterGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #857 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by weeping eagle View Post
    Easy, stay in power for as long as possible, then, when eventually deposed, captured, and brought before the International Criminal Court, go on long tirades asserting that you don't recognize the authority of the Court. Continue vigorously obstructing the proceedings until you are finally convicted, then, as you are about to be executed, claim that you did it all for your people.
    Pretty much V's only option. It seems unlikely that V will ever truly make up for what was done.

  16. - Top - End - #76
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    Planetar

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    Default Re: OOTS #857 - The Discussion Thread

    An update! Huzzah!

    I feel for V. V needs time to process emotions and come to terms with everything that has happened, but time is something V does not have right now. Hopefully V can get a grip and go for the pity party and / or grief counseling when there isn't a gate to be saved or a band of mummies and linear guild types ready to kill V and those who depend on V.

    Really, it IS a good question ... is the party better off if V is in it, given V has that twenty minutes of his life sold to fiends at the worst possible moment? But that's a question to be resolved later, when there is leisure for thinking.

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    Default Re: OOTS #857 - The Discussion Thread

    Hey, I just noticed the first panel. Sing a Song of Sixpence.
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  18. - Top - End - #78
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    Default Re: OOTS #857 - The Discussion Thread

    5 gp says that Vaarsuvius messes up the ambush while trying to "help".
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    Default Re: OOTS #857 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    5 gp says that Vaarsuvius messes up the ambush while trying to "help".
    Considering that implies she's going to try to help - as opposed to, say, run blindly through the pyramid, pop out the outer wall, and tumble in another heap to the desert ground below - I might consider taking that bet.

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    Default Re: OOTS #857 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RMS Oceanic View Post
    I wonder what V will run into first: The team or the gate?

    I suspect it won't be the team, otherwise why keep him separated from them in 854?
    So that a mummy of one of hir victims could fall on hir and say the words "YOUR FAULT"?

    Honestly, the delivery of that line is awesome on multiple levels.

  21. - Top - End - #81
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    Default Re: OOTS #857 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordokai View Post
    Eh, who cares about a bunch of evil dragons anyway
    Also wiping out the whole family that are defending the gates and currently used as a weapon against them.
    I am thinking this whole plot is started by a vengeance.
    Part Split because the death of a dwarven barbarian.
    Because of it three (four if this goes really badly) gates fell and a city fell along with the resistance (that cause me to break down).
    Because of this plot quarter of dragons, a family (led by a man who was angry with an asian paladin and plan to blew him to holy bits) and many other families perishes.
    If Draketooths lives, will they still help since they are abit xenophobic.
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    Default Re: OOTS #857 - The Discussion Thread

    Well, the passwall probably made a tunnel about 20 feet long, based on V's level. If there's another space within 20 feet on the other end, V will emerge there. If not, he'll be popped back into the pit when the spell ends.

    My hunch is that there will be a space on the other end, possibly with some important clue or even the gate itself.
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    So the song runs on, with shift and change,
    Through the years that have no name,
    And the late notes soar to a higher range,
    But the theme is still the same.
    Man's battle-cry and the guns' reply
    Blend in with the old, old rhyme
    That was traced in the score of the strata marks
    While millenniums winked like campfire sparks
    Down the winds of unguessed time. -- 4th Stanza, The Bad Lands, Badger Clark

  23. - Top - End - #83
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    Default Re: OOTS #857 - The Discussion Thread

    Another great comic! I love how V has "Quickened Expeditious Retreat" prepared because it is completely consistent with the ongoing joke of how OOTS always runs away from threats!

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    Default Re: OOTS #857 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordokai View Post
    Eh, who cares about a bunch of evil dragons anyway
    Ehh, who cares about a bunch of evil humans anyway

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    Default Re: OOTS #857 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Planescape: Torment FTW!
    I'd hoped there would be some folks here who would reconize the reference.
    Quote Originally Posted by raymundo View Post
    Holy baby Jesus on a pogo stick, if this is the resolution to a certain piece of media, I should definately give it a second try.
    The story of Planescape Torment is a remarkable piece of work, although you only really get the best out of it if you have high wisdom and intelligence (charisma's also worthwhile), making wizards the best class for getting the most out of the game. I wasn't so fond of some of the gameplay, especially the combat, but the story and characters were more than good enough to make up for that. But yeah, the Nameless One screwed up big time, and the entire game is about him learning that, and deciding that he really needs to just stop screwing up any more and find a way to accept what should have come to him in the first place.
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #857 - The Discussion Thread

    Well, I found the last row of panels to be quite amusing. And at least V is out of the pit.
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    Default Re: OOTS #857 - The Discussion Thread

    Wow, V memorizes Passwall every day... Quickened Expeditious Retreat also says a lot about where V is right now. V needs to research a teleport that is not opposed to V's schools. I mean there is no reason why teleport couldnt be cast in a different manner under different schools.

    Oh and fleeing from a mummy when you are alone is not a bad idea, especially with V's con score.

    ----

    Oh and I wonder how many san points V just lost.... V didnt have a whole lot of san left anyway at this measure... If this were CoC the GM would probably be asking for V's character sheet.
    Last edited by silvadel; 2012-06-26 at 09:16 AM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #857 - The Discussion Thread

    The title is great and fitting title for its content, it is just so perfect for it. And that line "your fault" was definitely the best part of this black comedy act.
    Last edited by DaOldeWolf; 2012-06-26 at 09:25 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jidasfire View Post
    On a long enough scale, every OOTS forum discussion turns into a debate about alignment, Miko, or Familicide.
    or Star Wars.
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    Default Re: OOTS #857 - The Discussion Thread

    Oh and I wonder how many san points V just lost.... V didnt have a whole lot of san left anyway at this measure... If this were CoC the GM would probably be asking for V's character sheet. Maybe V can research a teleport spell just using V's Mythos rating.

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    Default Re: OOTS #857 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by silvadel View Post
    Wow, V memorizes Passwall every day... Quickened Expeditious Retreat also says a lot about where V is right now. V needs to research a teleport that is not opposed to V's schools. I mean there is no reason why teleport couldnt be cast in a different manner under different schools.

    Oh and fleeing from a mummy when you are alone is not a bad idea, especially with V's con score.
    Yes, being trapped in a 6 foot by 6 foot room with something that can give you mummy rot is pretty deadly for anyone without Remove Curse and Cure Disease on their spell list -- which means anyone but a cleric. So getting the hell out of Dodge was actually a good option, probably.

    The OotS methods of dealing with threads is subtly but hilariously noted with the Passwall and Quickened Expeditious Retreat, though. "Run away!"
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    So the song runs on, with shift and change,
    Through the years that have no name,
    And the late notes soar to a higher range,
    But the theme is still the same.
    Man's battle-cry and the guns' reply
    Blend in with the old, old rhyme
    That was traced in the score of the strata marks
    While millenniums winked like campfire sparks
    Down the winds of unguessed time. -- 4th Stanza, The Bad Lands, Badger Clark

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