Delete This please

[samduke]

So as the title suggests I am interested to see if it is possible for one character to fulfill some of the basic primary roles that a standard party might have.

For 3.0/3.5

Fighter Type: Melee Base Attack 16+
Rogue Type: Ranged Base Attack 16+ / Skillmonkey / Party Face
Magic user: Arcane caster level 9 spells
Magic user: Divine caster level 9 spells

Is it possible to do these things within a normal 20 level progression?

What would you use and why?

[Flickerdart]

Relatively simple, actually.

BAB is acquired with persisted divine power. Double nines are achievable with Wizard 9/Ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 8/Wizard 1. Most skills are rendered obsolete by spells or summoned/bound creatures, including diplomacy skills.

[sovin_ndore]

My gut reaction on this would be to go either Chamelion or Fochluchan Lyrist. Both options would do alot of everything but would not hit all of those benchmarks you have set.

[AvatarVecna]

There's ways to be a fairly effective solo character, but none of the things you've listed are the biggest concerns. Spells can mostly make up for lacking the combat/skill capabilities, but the biggest issue is having 1 action to work with instead of 4. Staying power throughout the adventuring day can also be an issue. Part of it also depends on the starting level.

Personal opinion is that, as long as you were starting at 8th level or higher, a Wizard/Arcanist/Mystic Theurge could do pretty decently, although a slightly better build for it would be a Bard/Sublime Chord/(Ur-Priest or Apostle of Peace)/Mystic Theurge, if you were starting at higher than 14th. Regardless of what your build is, Leadership would probably be a good investment, and maybe the other Leadership-ish abilities, although that stretches the definition of "solo" party.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Between Levels 6-10 a Mystic Sword of the Arcane Order Wildshape Ranger is pretty much a solo party, add in Wild Cohort to get a (better) animal companion back.

[Twurps]

I don't think a build that combines all that in it's 'base' stats is possible. Combining 9th level arcane and divine spells already limit the number of choices severely. All of these choises include a good deal of 'theurge' classes, not known for their good BAB.

With spells however: Anything is possible.
Divine power (cleric lvl4 spell) wil solve any BAB issues with your build, persisted with DMM persist if you want this all day.
(BAB is equal for melee and ranged, perhaps you meant the total 'to hit' bonus to be 16+ for both? Doesn't really matter, as Divine power will solve this either way)
Same thing goes with skill-monkey and party-face stuff: you won't get the ranks a rogue gets. But that won't get you into any trouble that 9th level spells can't get you out of.

edit: ninja'd pretty bad, so ehm.... what they said.

[Gabrosin]

I'd start off with a druid, since you get a frontline fighter in your animal companion plus more actions by summoning creatures, and you have spells of all varieties all the way up.

Bardsader/JPM would be another great choice. You could work with a cleric. Anything with leadership would probably work fine, but that's not really a one-person party any more.

Another option would be to avoid challenges with stealth... maybe a beguiler.

[noob]

In pf with the familiar army trick you can manage to do everything with one character and one army of familiars doubling in size every round.

[Red Fel]

As others have said, the definition of a Tier 1 class is one that can perform all the roles. Both Wizards and Clerics can do this. Also as mentioned, theurging gets you double-9s.

Frankly, once you have double-9s, you can literally do anything. It's not even a question of if, just how.

[samduke]

well I do appreciate these suggestions.
the dmm cleric is one that was considered to solve several of the issues
the Bardsader/JPM as well as Chamelion or Fochluchan Lyrist are an interesting suggestion.

[icefractal]

I think I'd refine the roles a bit. Achieving 16 BAB, for example, is an interesting optimization question but not what actually matters in succeeding as a one-man party. What you need is the capability to:

* Survive the offense of the foes, including above-level ones.
* Defeat foes, including above-level ones.
* Defeat minor foes without consuming significant resources.
* Handle social interactions well.
* Handle logistics like transportation, information gathering, research, etc.
* Deal with hazards like curses, toxic environments, serious injury, etc.

And maybe some other stuff. Many of the casters could do it, some more easily than others.

[StreamOfTheSky]

I don't get the point of the OP's question. In D&D, if it's a single PC game, the DM is aware of that and would be balancing around it. S/he wouldn't expect the PC to cover every role and be good at it. The one time I tried to do it (as a DM), I auggested the player make a Druid both because it was well-rounded in abilities, and what I figured fit thematically with the character she wanted to make.

But with gestalt, DMPCs, homebrewed rules and items to cover deficiencies....this just seems like a pointless thought exercise.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Play a Druid.

The animal companion, summoned nature's allies, and your character with Wild Shape, can fulfill any and all melee needs of a given party.

Summoned nature's allies, and unlimited minions from the Summon Elemental reserve feat, can take care of any traps that you may run into.

The Druid spell list gets enough blasting, crowd control, divination, long-range mobility, and general utility to take care of anything an arcane spellcaster in the party would have needed to do.

The Druid spell list and the Unicorn from Summon Nature's Ally IV (or SNA III with a Ring of the Beast) gets enough healing, status effect and condition removals, buffs, divination, and general utility to take care of anything a divine spellcaster in the party would have needed to do.

[Curmudgeon]

If you're really talking about a one creature party, then the options are somewhat constrained; that would remove familiars, cohorts, companions, mounts, summoned monsters, and many other ways to have something else with actions to spend.

I think the limits need to be clarified.

[samduke]

the question is simple how to fulfill the four main party roles with one character. nothing was said about how many are in said party or any other factors.

[Ferronach]

If you don't care overly much about LA/ECl, you could use some races/templates to your advantage.
Why take caster levels when your race gives you access to a number of cool SLA and your template bumps all of your stats through the roof?

Alternatively, you could go with something like an Artificer (not tier 1 I know...).
Their UMD and scroll/wand amping will enable you to use scrolls and wands to effectively cast Lvl 9s in both schools. You can make healing grenades and craft yourself a companion that you can modify and upgrade as needed. In addition to this, you are able to act as a rogue with respect to traps and such.

Or just make a warlock and blast stuff to smithereens from afar…

[Nerd-o-rama]

But with gestalt, DMPCs, homebrewed rules and items to cover deficiencies....this just seems like a pointless thought exercise.

It's a D&D board on the internet. Pointless thought exercises are all we do.

[eggynack]

A core issue here is that you're asking two completely different questions. First, whether it's possible to create a single character that can handle most problems, and second, whether a character can fulfill these very specific requirements. The two just aren't that related, because as metrics go, one that specifies requirements on the build end rather than on the character end is a pretty poor one. You shouldn't be asking whether this character can have +16 BAB, in other words, but should instead be asking whether they can beat stuff up. You shouldn't ask whether they have 17th level casting of two types, but should instead ask whether they can solve problems that could be solved by the casting in question.

In other words, what you really want here is a build that scores high in most or all areas on the niche ranking system. Ideally, you would want them capable of fulfilling all of these niches at once, or most of them at once with a few in reserve. And, as was noted, a minion based take on gaming the action economy is especially good at doing well at this task. After all, the true ideal is not only that the character would have an ability to debuff and an ability to beat face, but rather that the character can do well at both tasks simultaneously, so as to truly simulate a full party.

[Nifft]

It's a D&D board on the internet. Pointless thought exercises are all we do.

We also have pointless fights.

[sovin_ndore]

It's a D&D board on the internet. Pointless thought exercises are all we do.

This made my day.

[samduke]

well I did place a limiter of within a normal 20 level progression so that does limit things itself all other factors are basicly to see if a build could achieve the four main party roles.. it seems tat th character could get there mostly through magic. so with that I will close this and say thankyou one and all

[OldTrees1]

While not perfect, a Cloistered Cleric with Knowledge, Spell, and Trickery domains is close to an easy bake one person party.

[Flickerdart]

While not perfect, a Cloistered Cleric with Knowledge, Spell, and Trickery domains is close to an easy bake one person party.

Magic domain may be the better choice here - Anyspell and Greater Anyspell are cool, but 2 arcane spells per day are rarely going to make or break things for you. Stocking up on scrolls and wands is always a solid strategy.

[icefractal]

In Pathfinder, incidentally, I think a Summoner (Master Summoner archetype) would be a good candidate for this.
* You have as many tanks as you want to fight in melee.
* You're charisma based, so that's the social stuff on lock.
* You only have 6th level casting, but you get stuff like Planar Binding and Gate anyway.
* Plus, between summoned monsters with SLAs and Planar Binding stuff, you can get access to most spells if you need them.
* With the Skilled evolution, your Eidolon can provide any skills you need. And with Lesser Evolution Surge, you can do that on the fly.

[Barstro]

the question is simple how to fulfill the four main party roles with one character. nothing was said about how many are in said party or any other factors.

So leadership, familiars, dominated persons, and summoned creatures are fair game?

If that argument can be made, then the one PC is the King who tells his subjects what to do.
Nah, it's the god who tells everyone what to do.
Nah, it's the released snarl that tells the gods what to do.
Nah, it's the cleric who tells the snarl what to do.
Nah, it's the cleric's wife who nags him and tells him what to do.
Nope, it's the pool boy who tells the wife what he wants.

Limits. We need limits.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Magic domain may be the better choice here - Anyspell and Greater Anyspell are cool, but 2 arcane spells per day are rarely going to make or break things for you. Stocking up on scrolls and wands is always a solid strategy.

^ He is right, thankfully you can actually get anyspell and greater anyspell into the normal cleric list with the Initiate of Mysrta (WHAT? It works for something else apart from casting in AMF?) And yes it explicitly mentions you can now cast them from normal cleric spell slots, not only domain slots.

[eggynack]

So leadership, familiars, dominated persons, and summoned creatures are fair game?

If that argument can be made, then the one PC is the King who tells his subjects what to do.
Nah, it's the god who tells everyone what to do.
Nah, it's the released snarl that tells the gods what to do.
Nah, it's the cleric who tells the snarl what to do.
Nah, it's the cleric's wife who nags him and tells him what to do.
Nope, it's the pool boy who tells the wife what he wants.

Limits. We need limits.

I don't see much of an issue, honestly. The limit is the implicit one defined by the amount of creatures the creature in question can bring into play, making use of class resources. I guess there's some quarreling to be done about whether you're allowed to assume particular creatures nearby that can be dominated, but stuff like animal companions, summoned monsters, and bound outsiders are going to be pretty much independent of campaign. That's a pretty solid standard, I think, that the creature in question has to be granted directly by the rules. You can, of course, come up with broader limits that allow more stuff, but that's about as restrictive as it gets without being somewhat ridiculous.

[Anthrowhale]

While not perfect, a Cloistered Cleric with Knowledge, Spell, and Trickery domains is close to an easy bake one person party.

Archivist seems better, no? You get access to more spells and have Int rather than Wis based casting.

[Endarire]

OP: Having played solo campaigns, it's quite possible to be a solo character - just not in the way you described.

Is gestalt on the table? If so, things are made tremendously easier! If not (and I'm assuming not), just remember: You don't need to have or do everything, just the most important things.

I'm assuming you start at ECL1. If you start at higher levels, other options are viable, and things are generally easier with more levels due to having more options.

These are characters I've played or have seriously planned to play solo from ECL1 in D&D 3.5:

-A Dragonborn Gray Elf Psion (Telepath) with the astral construct and psionic levitate powers going for Thrallherd. This was a gestalt character, and I put Factotum on the other side. Had the game lasted into Thrallherd levels, I would have taken Psion levels at Thrallherd1 and 10 to ensure full manifesting. Why Gray Elf? High INT and Faerie Mysteries Initiate.

-A Gray Elf Transmutation Domain Wizard with the Elf Wizard substitution level. I eventually went Mindbender1 then Incantatrix for buff persistence. I got to about level 9 before I got bored. I started the game by selling the majority of spellbook (cantrips), having Handle Animal and trained animals as minions, and just proceeding cautiously. I'm a big fan of a And yes, charm person rocks the low levels and is uber useful in a solo campaign!

-Strongheart Halfling Druid/Planar Shepherd of Lamannia. I never played this one yet, but Druid is just powerful. Focus on summons, go Hi Welcome on your foes, and just handle things well because you're a Druid. You have options.

[OldTrees1]

Archivist seems better, no? You get access to more spells and have Int rather than Wis based casting.

I prefer the larger and more diverse skill list that comes with the Knowledge & Trickery Domain and the benefits of the Magic domain(ooh, especially the improved domain power).