Netflix original "Bright"

[Cheesegear]

I'd just like to point out that I get the point and the argument Reddish Mage makes.

I understand it, too. I think his argument is flawed. But...Unfortunately, the argument that this thread wants to have, we can't have on this Forum. So everyone's talking around it, and never quite getting their point across. I just want to point out David Ayer's record;

Wrote Training Day. 'Nuff said.
Wrote Dark Blue. If you've never seen it, you know what it's about just by the title.
Wrote S.W.A.T. A bad movie.
Directed Street Kings (I'll watch anything with Keanu in it)
Wrote, produced and directed End of Watch.
Produced and directed Bright.

Given his writing credits, I know what Ayer's about, and I know what he's trying to say.
I know exactly what this movie's about... Regardless of whether it was done poorly or not. Then, the whole point of the movie, asks me to see past the bad parts, and look at the good parts, at what's underneath the surface. Some members of the audience turned the thing off in the first 15 minutes; Irony. Where Bright fails (IMO), is in one, specific scene;

Spoiler: Jakoby

Show

But, Jakoby doesn't make himself known to Orcs via community policing, or community outreach, or anything that a good Orc cop, should do. Jakoby doesn't endear himself to Orcs by being a non-corrupt, non-racist cop*. Jakoby is, instead, an Orc messiah figure. That's how he earns his community's respect, by being brought back to life...Like that other dude. You know the one. It's only after the Orcs have knelt to him, that he can do his job...

* The scene in which it's revealed that the Orc that Jakoby didn't wrongfully arrest and/or get killed turned out to be the local crime lord's son. Convenient.

Ward's version of the story at the end, is extremely symbolic. Especially after Jakoby spills his guys about what really happened.

[Lacuna Caster]

I understand it, too. I think his argument is flawed. But...Unfortunately, the argument that this thread wants to have, we can't have on this Forum.

I'm pretty sure I've been just saying what I think, and while I agree that the film has problematic elements, I think that possibly stereotyping hispanics and LA cops would be down the list quite a bit.

I do think that professional critics are reflexively mashing the downvote button in a way that it doesn't really deserve, though. If Avatar mostly gets a pass for it's politicised message and formulaic narrative, there's no good reason why Bright can't.

[GloatingSwine]

Spoiler: Jakoby

Show

But, Jakoby doesn't make himself known to Orcs via community policing, or community outreach, or anything that a good Orc cop, should do. Jakoby doesn't endear himself to Orcs by being a non-corrupt, non-racist cop*. Jakoby is, instead, an Orc messiah figure. That's how he earns his community's respect, by being brought back to life...Like that other dude. You know the one. It's only after the Orcs have knelt to him, that he can do his job...

* The scene in which it's revealed that the Orc that Jakoby didn't wrongfully arrest and/or get killed turned out to be the local crime lord's son. Convenient.

Ward's version of the story at the end, is extremely symbolic. Especially after Jakoby spills his guys about what really happened.

Spoiler

Show

There's a little more to it than that. Jakoby couldn't endear himself to the rest of the orcs because as far as they're concerned he's already walking ****, even before he was a cop. Also, he earned their respect first by taking a beating and not ratting, he proved that he actually was brave, which is what their culture respects and what makes you a proper Orc.

Getting resurrected was icing on that cake.

Anyway, s'alright. Will Smith's done worse. Will Smith's done worse with David Ayer. Recently. I think a lot of the criticism about it not doing a lot with the fantasy bits is because there really isn't a lot of worldbuilding. It doesn't really show off how the world got to the way it is. There are orcs and elves, get over it.

That does kinda undermine what the baddie wants because that's kinda founded in the worldbuilding that wasn't there and the baddie was quite indistinct and not really much of a character outside of that.

Reasonable romp though.

[Cheesegear]

I think that possibly stereotyping hispanics and LA cops would be down the list quite a bit.

I think the problem is that David Ayer repeatedly writes stories about gangland LA, and it's very similar to whenever anyone writes a story about gangland Chicago.

The writers and directors are making movies about very, very specific places. Where bad things happen, and 'the stereotypes' actually exist. Else how else do stereotypes form? The problem is that those things don't exist everywhere. And because they don't exist in all places, they must not exist, right?

I do think that professional critics are reflexively mashing the downvote button in a way that it doesn't really deserve, though.

Which is what happens whenever any movie comes out with 'problematic social justice issues' (e.g; Ghostbusters). Reviewers almost have to decide what side of the conflict they want to be on, regardless of what they thought about the movie.

Anyway, s'alright. Will Smith's done worse. Will Smith's done worse with David Ayer.

I wrote Ayer's record a few posts ago. He was definitely the wrong choice for Suicide Squad, and I said so at the time. That's not the kind of script/movie he makes, and it's nowhere close to the style of movie he knows how to make.
I imagine that Ayer could've written this movie without the Orcs and the Elves and it would've been almost exactly the same (i.e; Remarkably similar to Ward's recount), but, the Orcs and the Elves is where Max Landis comes in, I guess.

But, while we were watching it, my partner basically had the same question that Jakoby did;
How did Will Smith shoot all those dudes so quickly?
...Because he's Deadshot, obviously.

[rooster707]

So, saw this last night. I thought it was pretty good. Not amazing, but enough to make me want a Shadowrun movie a sequel.

[JeenLeen]

Mostly non-political aspects

It seemed to me that the Inferni's combat powers were likely due to them being Inferni, not elves. We never see the Feds in action, so we don't know how non-evil elves act, but I'm guessing it's some sort of investiture, not innate power. The movie never states either way, though. Just... it seems crazy that elves are insanely-good combatants, though that would lend to them being the world-leaders.

All in all, I mostly disliked that some of the world-building seemed a tad flat. We get some insight (with some inconsistencies) about orcs and elves. But dwarves also exist, it seems, ( and maybe lizardmen), and those never come up besides a side reference. I think some details on what the Dark Lord was and about orc prophecy would've helped frame things better.

Also, was Ward divorced? He seemed in a happy marriage, but then it skips to after he gets shot and he seems to be in a bad spot in his relationship. And he joked about divorce and remarriage, plus Jakoby's remark about not enough love. Just some of the "told, not shown, and then told in little detail" that seems throughout the movie.

Lastly, from how the cops reacted, I guess wands can be used by non-Brights as long as you don't touch it, but... even Brights have trouble using it well. That seemed inconsistent. I'm sure the gang leader did'nt know the magic words for 'heal me'.

I did enjoy it, though.

[Fishybugs]

Yeah, there's a lot of "told, not explained". Enough so that I wonder how much of this movie is left sitting on the cutting room floor. It would be interesting to see how much was cut out. Conversely, a lot of things are brought up as side conversations, making me wonder if they were purposefully teasing them so that people would want to see more, demand to see more.

It worked for me. Was there racism? Yes, but not exaggerated too much from what I can tell. For being the only move in its genre that I've seen (apparently there have been other urban fantasy movies??) I thought it not done too poorly. Again, I knew David Ayer was involved as I went into it, so I had expected to see certain things.

I would like to see another one that delves more into the rich history that is hinted at multiple times.

[JeenLeen]

Somebody commented how Jakoby seemed a fish out of water regarding social scenes. I liked that about him, but as thinking about it more, it doesn't make sense (as commented earlier). It would work great for showing a slightly different mentality orcs could have than humans -- based more on subtle social cues and smells to detect emotions, which in turn makes orcs look like they don't express emotion and makes humans look (to orcs) like they wear their emotions on their face just crazy blatantly. But most orcs we see seem to be fairly 'normal', if gangstery, like we'd expect humans to be.

Kinda a shame. I'd like it if the gangster orcs also showed a different mentality than humans, instead of just seeming like extra-tough, different-skinned humans.

---

On the race note, was Ward's wife white? In the opening scenes, I thought she was white, and I thought that was a cool way of showing that although racism regarding species (orc, elf, human) was a big deal, in light of the actual specieism actual racism regarding human skin tones wasn't a thing. Likewise the camaraderie between Ward and his white fellow cops. (Sure, they plan to kill him later, but they all seem friendly except for his superior--which seems to show that black and white humans don't consider being black and white a significant difference.)

From later scenes, I couldn't tell, but the lighting was different.
Nothing was explicitly stated either way as if intra-species racism was a thing in the movie, but I thought it an interesting, subtle way to do worldbuilding by showing a lack of racism within a given species. (Even if the wife character was the same race as Ward, the camaraderie between cops could also be subtle hint to this.)

[Psyren]

I liked it. Yeah it beat you around the head with the race analogies, and yeah the plot and characters were as cliché as you could imagine (jaded veteran cop close to retirement and idealistic rookie, Will when did you become Agent Kay anyway? Now I feel old) - but the setting, my goodness the setting. I view it like Zootopia, I want to see more of this world and city outside the lens of its law enforcement. Show me the schools and universities, show me the sports teams, show me the military. And I could definitely use more of that Dark Lord stuff, and the magic system.

All in all, I mostly disliked that some of the world-building seemed a tad flat. We get some insight (with some inconsistencies) about orcs and elves. But dwarves also exist, it seems, ( and maybe lizardmen), and those never come up besides a side reference. I think some details on what the Dark Lord was and about orc prophecy would've helped frame things better.

Centaurs too, according to one traffic sign, and there was definitely a dragon flapping lazily overhead in one establishing shot.

[Benthesquid]

Show me the schools and universities, show me the sports teams, show me the military. And I could definitely use more of that Dark Lord stuff, and the magic system.

Yes, this. I'd love an anthology piece, maybe following a New Yorker reporter or something doing profiles on different neighborhoods and notable individuals in this world.

[ben-zayb]

I definitely like the world building being done in this film. Sort of a what-if for modern earth being Middle Earth in the future, but really not quite, events-wise. Interesting choice of time frame of the Dark Lord era transpiring 2000 years ago. No idea whether we had the real ancient civilizations existing back then.

Of course, this being a Will Smith film under David Ayer, obligatory reference:
Ward: "So that's it, huh. We're some kind of... Bright?
And he is! What?! Are you kidding me?

[Misereor]

That one was good, but personally I preferred the one about uncovering conspiracies with an orc sniper, a cybered-up human, a human decker, and a punk rock shaman. And I think there was a dog too?

I like Shadowrun too, but these Scooby Doo remakes are getting ridiculous.

[Psyren]

Of course, this being a Will Smith film under David Ayer, obligatory reference:
Ward: "So that's it, huh. We're some kind of... Bright?

Roll credits. *ding!*

I like Shadowrun too, but these Scooby Doo remakes are getting ridiculous.

And now I'm imagining how awesome Shadowrun Scooby Doo would be, so thanks for that

[comicshorse]

And now I'm imagining how awesome Shadowrun Scooby Doo would be, so thanks for that

Wish and it will be so

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scooby_Apocalypse

(Close enough )

[Dr.Samurai]

Netflix has confirmed a sequel! Woohoo!

[Dragonus45]

Nice, the movie itself didn't exactly cry out for one but there is certainly a lot to follow up on.

[Cheesegear]

I like how in their sequel announcement they directly referenced Alien Nation and Shadowrun.
Did Max Landis/David Ayer/Netflix know what they were doing the whole time?
Or was it more a case of reviews came out, and they were like "Oh [poop], it is like those things."

[Misereor]

I like how in their sequel announcement they directly referenced Alien Nation and Shadowrun.
Did Max Landis/David Ayer/Netflix know what they were doing the whole time?
Or was it more a case of reviews came out, and they were like "Oh [poop], it is like those things."

Hope it's the first. Alien Nation was top dollar, and even the TV series was entertaining.

<edit>Max Landis? Holy crap, he's the son of John Landis, best director ever. Yipiie! Good times ahead if he's got even a tenth of dad's talent!</edit>

[JadedDM]

I read Landis will not be involved in the sequel, actually.

[JoshL]

With the Alien Nation reference, I realize now how much I want Rockne O'Bannon to take over writing this. Or at the very least, Netflix to give him a series with the freedom he had on Farscape.

[Lemmy]

Just watched the movie. I liked it. Not amazing, but still fun, if predictable. I hope the sequel is more coherent, though. Now that the setting is somewhat established, they should have more time to focus on an actual plot.

I wish we could've seen more of the other races... The only non-human/elf/orc I remember seeing was the centaur cop and the lady who blinks sideways to Will Smith.

[Cheesegear]

<edit>Max Landis? Holy crap, he's the son of John Landis, best director ever. Yipiie! Good times ahead if he's got even a tenth of dad's talent!</edit>

Max is a writer, not a director. He's a bit of a douche. But the way he tells it, his ideas are just too crazy for Hollywood.
That said, is writing Dirk Gently's. So at least he's got that.
So, yeah. He's found his place at Netflix...Where they'll take anything.

[Blackhawk748]

Also, anyone else see the dragon the size of a 747 flying atop the skyline? I wonder what regulations are in place regarding huge, fire-breathing flying reptiles.

Whatever rules they want

With the Alien Nation reference, I realize now how much I want Rockne O'Bannon to take over writing this. Or at the very least, Netflix to give him a series with the freedom he had on Farscape.

Oooh, id love to see him let loose, Farscape was a fun ride.

[Dienekes]

Hope it's the first. Alien Nation was top dollar, and even the TV series was entertaining.

<edit>Max Landis? Holy crap, he's the son of John Landis, best director ever. Yipiie! Good times ahead if he's got even a tenth of dad's talent!</edit>

Yeah. So... Max is a writer. He wrote Chronicle which was great, and Dirk Gently. And a few actually very good comics. The man seems to really get Superman.

Which is ironic since a lot has been coming out recently that he may be on the Hollywood sexual predator list. Nothing confirmed, and I hope it isn’t true. But after a few allegations Netflix dropped him. So... yeah.

[Reddish Mage]

I like how in their sequel announcement they directly referenced Alien Nation and Shadowrun.
Did Max Landis/David Ayer/Netflix know what they were doing the whole time?

Come on. Orcs, Elves and Dragons in contemporary LA, they couldn't possibly run this through the production process without hearing about Alien Nation and Shadowrun. More likely, that's exactly where Max Landis got the idea from.

Yeah. So... Max is a writer. He wrote Chronicle which was great, and Dirk Gently. And a few actually very good comics. The man seems to really get Superman.

Which is ironic since a lot has been coming out recently that he may be on the Hollywood sexual predator list. Nothing confirmed, and I hope it isn’t true. But after a few allegations Netflix dropped him. So... yeah.

I question whether the allegations had anything to do with it. I read David Ayer heavily revised the script and put his own stamp on it. Max Landis has generally complained about his vision getting trampled on and how he wants to sell shows in a "already packages" form so they can't be tampered with so much.

Writers generally have like no power in Hollywood. They serve up full-written pieces to be hacked apart and redone by committee, many members of which will not take a clue about what the original vision is or how their changes basically cut against the core of whatever that was.

He got paid over 3 million for the script, which is more than any writer has received for a script for a long, long time. If David Ayer is just going to do whatever anyway, they probably don't need want a script writer who is absurdly expensive and has a chip on his shoulder about the importance of his creative vision.

[Cheesegear]

He got paid over 3 million for the script, which is more than any writer has received for a script for a long, long time. If David Ayer is just going to do whatever anyway, they probably don't need want a script writer who is absurdly expensive and has a chip on his shoulder about the importance of his creative vision.

Like I said, I feel like Bright was the kind of movie that Ayer could've made in his sleep. It's just that this time, it had Orcs and Elves in it, too.
Now that the first movie's out, and Ayer has figured out what Orcs and Elves are supposed to do...I'm pretty sure he could write the script himself. Don't need Landis no more. And since Ayer has done Suicide Squad, he knows exactly how to 'play ball' with a studio, even if the studio's vision is terrible, he'll do it anyway.

[Kitten Champion]

Someone paid three million dollars for that script? A bundle of gritty police action television/movie and hack fantasy cliches?

What am I doing with my life?

[Misereor]

Yeah. So... Max is a writer. He wrote Chronicle which was great, and Dirk Gently. And a few actually very good comics. The man seems to really get Superman.

Which is ironic since a lot has been coming out recently that he may be on the Hollywood sexual predator list. Nothing confirmed, and I hope it isn’t true. But after a few allegations Netflix dropped him. So... yeah.

*Uck* Depressing...

[Reddish Mage]

Like I said, I feel like Bright was the kind of movie that Ayer could've made in his sleep. It's just that this time, it had Orcs and Elves in it, too.
Now that the first movie's out, and Ayer has figured out what Orcs and Elves are supposed to do...I'm pretty sure he could write the script himself. Don't need Landis no more. And since Ayer has done Suicide Squad, he knows exactly how to 'play ball' with a studio, even if the studio's vision is terrible, he'll do it anyway.

What you describe about Ayer’s old movies makes me feel he basically made so many changes he made another of his own movies.

Landis really didn’t make much of a mark on this movie, although he gets a lot of the criticism directed at him because writers control nothing but critics don’t seem to know that.

Someone paid three million dollars for that script? A bundle of gritty police action television/movie and hack fantasy cliches?

What am I doing with my life?

First, be the son of a very powerful Hollywood writer. Next, write the scripts to a few moderately successful Hollywood blockbusters. Third, tell Netflix “my script deserves to be a real movie” and hold out for more money. Fourth after you get the money watch as the director tosses all your ideas and makes his own movie anyway. Fifth, throw me a few hundred thousand if that all goes your way.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

This movie rocked!

Best thing I've seen since Rogue One. There may be a few logic holes, I'll enjoy rewatching and seeing if the stick.

The action rocks.

The political message, its there. Its here. A good number of my neighbors and co-workers are racist pigs, some for "both" of "our" sides. I will even boycott our welfare loving baseball team which is far from the worst I admit but I was ok with Bright's political tone.

The action kicked butt, it had me. I like how humans maintain our dominance in sci fi, I guess through breeding quantity lol.

Did I say this was one of the best action flicks since T2 yet?

Spoiler,

For half the movie I thought Teeka was a little special. I guess shell shocked is what she was?