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2017-12-06, 11:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything
I always have trouble deciding what spells to choose and this will help a lot.
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2017-12-06, 11:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2017
Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything
I think it is more along the lines of that with limited numbers of subclasses some that are just markedly inferior stand out.
Berzerker and somewhat Battlerager Barbarian
Elemental Monk
Beastmaster Ranger
Champion Fighter
Wild Magic Sorcerer
There is a reason people only take those for a level or 2 if at all. The other choices are just plain better.
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2017-12-06, 11:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2012
Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything
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2017-12-06, 11:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2017
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2017-12-06, 12:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2012
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2017-12-06, 12:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2014
Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything
Breaking BM: Revised - an updated look at the beast-mounted halfling ranger based on the Revised Ranger: Beast Conclave.
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2017-12-06, 12:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything
Psychihc blades is comically underrated. It's a smite yo uget back on a short rest, and bards can get swift quiver. It's far better than the flourishes of the other bard college at first level and scales better from there.
Basically a Whisper bard would be fighting by putting on haste or swift quiver, getting their trigger on psychic blades. Then their standard action is free for a full spell. It's like a Bizzaro Sorc/Paladin. minus some bulk and plus skills.Avatar of Rudisplork Avatar of PC-dom and Slayer of the Internet. Extended sig
GitP Regulars as: Vestiges Spells Weapons Races Deities Feats Soulmelds/Veils
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2017-12-06, 12:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2012
Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything
I mean, if your 3rd level ability is dependant on using a 10th level ability to select a certain spell, it's probably not great. It also doesn't really fit the theme of the class to me.
I don't think it's a red option, but it's definitely not a feature I'm picking the subclass up for which is usually what you want the 3rd level ability to be. Honestly they should have made Shadow Lore the level 3 subclass feature because that's thematic as hell.
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2017-12-06, 12:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2013
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2017-12-06, 01:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything
If you're melee. Although I suppose this is true for the most part. But if you're not planning on being in melee, it's not as much of a benefit.
Hexblade is mechanically the best for damage. But it doesn't have anywhere near the flavor of GOO or Fiend, or even celestial. You get stuff to do damage.
I never thought I'd say this, but it's not always about doing damage.
Imagine being able to project your voice directly into someones brainhole. The possibilities for mindfookery are nearly endless.Argue in good faith.
And try to remember that these are people.
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2017-12-06, 02:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2014
Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything
Exactly. Endless and very campaign-dependent.
For an easier example, consider that the sun soul monk is often criticized as being underpowered. But against undead, particularly vampires, the archetype shines. You could not say Sun Soul was a bad choice unless you knew what you'd be fighting in the campaign.
Back on Warlock patrons, that's why I think it's more useful to simply state what they can do well. Players will do a better job picking the one they think suits their intentions best if, rather than ranking archetypes outside of any sort of context, we state their strengths.Breaking BM: Revised - an updated look at the beast-mounted halfling ranger based on the Revised Ranger: Beast Conclave.
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2017-12-06, 02:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything
I agree the theme is weird.
However is psychic blades was placed later it would probably be a case of too little too late, where it wouldn’t scale super well. Then shadow lore might not be bringing enough to the class.
However it allows you to make a version of a multiclassed build without multiclassing, so I would rate it more highly than the flourishes. On a more global level, you get to be a rogue with no condition for cha mod rounds/short rest.Last edited by Snowbluff; 2017-12-06 at 03:00 PM.
Avatar of Rudisplork Avatar of PC-dom and Slayer of the Internet. Extended sig
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2017-12-06, 04:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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2017-12-06, 04:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
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2017-12-06, 06:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2014
Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything
I would argue that the Hexblade is better at things like social interaction and exploration because it has so much combat power that the Hexblade can save its spells and invocations for those sorts of things.
It has far and away more power than any other patron. It's not even close. And this is for all warlock types, not just weapon builds.
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2017-12-06, 06:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2017
Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything
Having a specter under your control that can go through walls and help spy for you is not combat only.
Locked door. Specter unlocks it.
Is that chest trapped? Specter checks it, possibly from the inside
Need someone to bait out an enemy. Specter does it.
It is one of the best support abilities of any patron.
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2017-12-06, 06:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything
Last edited by krugaan; 2017-12-06 at 06:21 PM.
Argue in good faith.
And try to remember that these are people.
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2017-12-06, 06:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2017
Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything
Are you going to spend 1 of your 2 spell slots on that?
Only warlocks of 1 pact that takes 1 invocation can do it with a ritual, and that takes 10 mins.
It also only follows commands and has no real mind.
The specter is essentially essentially a very cool familiar that can go through walls, and fight with you. And follows advanced directions because they are pretty smart.
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2017-12-06, 07:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything
If I'm tome, I probably have it as a ritual.
If I'm chain, then I *already* have a cool familiar that can do all that.
If I'm blade, then I'm a hexblade and the argument is moot.
I dislike that you have to personally kill something to get this cool familiar, because that generally precludes its use in intrigue or similar campaigns. Of course, that hardly matters for dungeon crawls, but that's not the point of my argument.Argue in good faith.
And try to remember that these are people.
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2017-12-06, 07:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2014
Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything
Not only that but the underlying assumption here makes the argument moot.
Either -
Combat is dangerous and it's possible to lose/tpk so you should expect to be attacked. As such combat stats like AC are vital.
OR
It's easy to avoid even being attacked in combat because it is trivial and as such it doesn't matter what options are taken because the party is easily going to win anyway.
In the latter case guides are completely worthless because every option results in success.
For example, I just started up a new campaign with my group and we invited a new player. She brought a Ranger from a previous campaign by lowering her level a bit. She had leather armour, I suggested that she get better armour and she said leather was a character choice. Sure. So 2nd combat encounter of the session is comprised of 4 orcs. They use their bonus action dash to close the distance and 2 of them attack her and drop her in the first round. If she had better AC should would have been fine and the tide of battle wouldn't have swung against the party. The spellcasters fired off spells in the 2nd round to save the day, but now they are down those spells for the adventuring day, all because her AC is low. Not only did the orcs not care that she was armed with a bow, it made her a bigger target.
I keep hearing that Hexblade is a damage only patron and the other patrons offer so much more...but what is that more exactly?
Telepathy to 30ft?
Charm for 1 round?
What are these magnificent exploration and social interaction abilities? Warlocks have a lot of these abilities...they're just not from their patrons.
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2017-12-06, 07:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2017
Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything
The point of your argument was thay hexblade is the combat only subclass.
My point was that you were wrong and it has one of the best utility features of any warlock subclass
Also, no your familiar can't phase through a wall, or a chest and spy on the other side, it has to be able to get there like any physical being.
Also the specter lasts until your long rest so that could be quite a while.
Just because you are pact of chain does not make it less worthwhile, you can have 2 pets 2 that can be invisible 2 that can walk through walls
Hexblade is the new broken patron for any build really.
You can still be chain or tome if you want, none of their abilities force you to use a weapon. You could just take the nice armor, curse and use normal spells
The point is that Hexblade is not the "combat only patron"
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2017-12-06, 07:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything
Yes, but that utility is *tied* to combat (unless you think of some clever way around it). I'll concede this one feature has *some* utility, but not much more than a chainlock pet by itself, and there's that pesky corpse thing you need as a prerequisite to use it.
Also, no your familiar can't phase through a wall, or a chest and spy on the other side, it has to be able to get there like any physical being. That is pretty cool.
Also the specter lasts until your long rest so that could be quite a while. I suppose this is a bonus?
Just because you are pact of chain does not make it less worthwhile, you can have 2 pets 2 that can be invisible 2 that can walk through walls You can dismiss and resummon your pet at any point you can see within 30 ft, IIRC.
Hexblade is the new broken patron for any build really.
You can still be chain or tome if you want, none of their abilities force you to use a weapon. You could just take the nice armor, curse and use normal spells
The point is that Hexblade is not the "combat only patron"Argue in good faith.
And try to remember that these are people.
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2017-12-06, 07:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2014
Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything
What does Pact of the Chain have to do with the Hexblade Patron?
It's like arguing that the Warlock's spellcasting ability is both stronger than the Hexblade features and provides more out of combat utility. Of course it does. Only you still get to cast spells as a Hexblade just as you can still take the Pact of the Chain.
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2017-12-07, 07:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2017
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Re: Prose's Guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything
"So much more" is an overstatement but the comparison between the patrons isn't entirely cut and dry. Fey has much better cc options (sleep and faerie fire at low levels), fiend has the best aoe damage (fireball, wall of fire) and has good defensive options vs spells (something which hexblade doesn't have). Great old one has perhaps the best single ability of any warlock patron (create thrall) and even celestial can fill a healing niche in a party that already has good single target dpr, but lacks for a cleric.
If I had to create a warlock "tier list" it would look something like this:
Powerful Tier - Hexblade blaster, fiend blaster
Good Tier - Hexblade bladelock, all other blaster locks
Mediocre Tier - fiend bladelock
Trash Tier - all other bladelocks
The real power discrepancy is pact of the blade vs eldritch blast, not so much between the individual patrons.
Edit: The one area where the Hexblade is just impossibly far ahead is multi-classing. Giving you medium armor, shields and the curse for a one level dip is obscene...Last edited by ProseBeforeHos; 2017-12-07 at 08:16 AM.
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2017-12-07, 01:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
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2017-12-07, 01:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2017
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2017-12-07, 01:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2013
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2017-12-07, 02:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
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2017-12-07, 02:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2013
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2017-12-07, 02:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015