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Thread: FIFA 2010 World Cup
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2010-07-11, 05:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup
Are you saying that the other players never gutted weak defences? That is the JOB of a striker. You're trying to diminish his record for ... doing what he's meant to?
And those first two players weren't consistently capable enough to make it in more world cups. Being a flash in the pan doesn't make you a good player. I don't need to compare Klose to Pele - if Pele can't score more goals then he doesn't deserve to be placed higher.
Receiving a pass and scoring is not goal-poaching, it is earning your goal as much as anybody else.
Crafting your own chances might seem a lot more impressive to the spectators, but being perfectly positioned and seizing on the ball when it falls to you requires excellent timing and initiative, not to mention patience - something which other strikers will typically lack.
Klose deserves to be at the top every bit as much as those other strikers. They all had their grandeur and their pratfalls. Picking him apart and enshrining the others isn't productive if you actually want people to keep playing soccer.
Note that I am not saying that we should simply pedestal strikers who can nail the sitters but are otherwise useless (I'm looking at you, Rooney) - simply that if someone claws his way up through the ranks then he deserves to have done so.*Splendid Goatatar by that cool kid Serpentine
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2010-07-11, 07:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup
Oh, come on now. Is Klose one of the most successful international strikers of recent years? Yes. Is he one of the greatest players of all time? No, absolutely not.
Are you saying that the other players never gutted weak defences? That is the JOB of a striker. You're trying to diminish his record for ... doing what he's meant to?
And those first two players weren't consistently capable enough to make it in more world cups. Being a flash in the pan doesn't make you a good player. I don't need to compare Klose to Pele - if Pele can't score more goals then he doesn't deserve to be placed higher.
I mean, just compare the goal returns to caps for these players:
Muller 68 from 62 games
Fontaine 30 from 21
Pele 77 from 92
Klose 52 from 101
I can't see how we can look at that return and argue that Klose was the most capable of the lot.Last edited by Aedilred; 2010-07-11 at 07:58 AM.
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2010-07-11, 09:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup
He's not the greatest player of all time, no.
He is, however, one of the best WORLD CUP players of all time. Maybe you haven't noticed, but it takes nerve to play in a World Cup and many accomplished strikers can't handle it.
Klose can. He doesn't get phased by it and plays consistently in the high-pressure games. That is what's impressive here.
Depends on the year
Honestly though, like I already said - scalping a weak defence is a key part of being a striker. You cannot fault the man for actually doing his job just because you don't want him on the pedestal.
The man that falls to injury does not deserve to go further. If you push your body too hard, or if the fates curse you, then you're gone. It's as much your fault as anyone else's.
Which also covers Mullers timing, incidentally. Luck is an integral part of playing soccer. You can't rail on one player for having it when nobody would turn it down.
Most capable in every international? No, probably not.
However, I'm going to say this again:
Klose is a World Cup player, first and foremost.
Dragging in performance over goals in Euro and friendlies and what-not aren't relevant, because this is about being one of the best World Cup players. Which Klose is/was.
Klose is equal to Muller, only just worse than Ronaldo and better than Fontaine or Pele, in terms of being a World Cup striker.
That's where he stands and that's where the legacy he leaves will remain. The man is done with the game and he earned what he achieved.
Give it up. His career is finished.*Splendid Goatatar by that cool kid Serpentine
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2010-07-11, 10:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup
If that were true, how come we were ever victorious with anything?
Of course I am rooting for my home country bigtime here. I hadn't expected Spain to be honest. Netherlands vs Germany has become such a classic kind of match that both of them in the finals of the World Cup has become notorious to see, and Germany was steamlolling all over its opponents. I imagined that if Germany had won, the Dutch players would have needed a big boost in confidence (prolly some speech emphasizing they had already beaten the big Number One, Brazil, which has only happened once before in 1974). Sure, Spain is no quadraplegic dwarf, so it will still be something.
If the Netherlands wins though... I will definitely have the best 20th birthday gift ever, as the World Cup will be handed out on that very day.Homebrewer's Signature | Avatar by Strawberries
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2010-07-11, 11:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup
On the Muller/Pele/Close topic, a fact that bears consideration is that during the former two's careers, the World Cup consisted of 16 teams, while for Close, it was 32.
Therefore, Pele and Muller played against better teams on average. And, not to disparage Close's performance, but a goal againt Australia isn't worth quite the same as a goal against Italy. Yes, I know, a goal is a goal and all that, but ... Italy is Italy. Even when it fails to advance beyond the group stage.Last edited by Lin Bayaseda; 2010-07-11 at 11:09 AM.
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2010-07-11, 11:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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2010-07-11, 01:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup
Well...I'm with Holland. They beat Denmark, so they better win!
EDIT: and the best player ever was Peter Schmeichel.Last edited by Miklus; 2010-07-11 at 01:17 PM.
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2010-07-11, 01:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup
Wait, did I miss the new rule where the team with the most yellow cards wins the match?
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2010-07-11, 02:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup
Last edited by fknm; 2010-07-11 at 02:14 PM.
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2010-07-11, 02:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup
What a "not very interesting to watch" first half.
Last edited by Rhydeble; 2010-07-11 at 02:22 PM.
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2010-07-11, 02:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup
I agree, this half was totally dull. And what's with all of the dirty playing??
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2010-07-11, 02:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup
I blame Spain. They where everywhere, ruining the dutch play. But they failed to produce anything themselves.
I suppose the same argument could be made for Holland. But I think Spain is mostly to blame.
A quick goal is needed in the second half, or this will go to penalties, I think.Bad to the Bone!
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2010-07-11, 03:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup
Both teams seem content with a penalty shootout. They should give the cup to Germany. That would show them.
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2010-07-11, 03:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup
Looks like I'm going to win my bet. I bet the Dutch would get finished with the penalties. They always lose with the penalties. I'm saying Spanish 4, Dutch 2. When they have to shoot penalties.
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2010-07-11, 03:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup
This has been a rather ridiculous final so far, indeed. The Dutch didn't play the offense well enough and the Spaniards were too quick to fall down. Such a shame, really, for all those who had expected a grand game.
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2010-07-11, 03:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup
I'm not having much fun for a world cup final. That could easily just be because I was woken up to see it. But it is not particularly exciting.
Go Netherlands I guess.I take this game with the seriousness it deserves.
Not all that much. It's a game.
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2010-07-11, 03:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-07-11, 03:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup
It's dumb, but traditionally, the 3rd place games are often better than the finals.
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2010-07-11, 03:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup
FINALLY.
That is the most boring final I've ever seen. Yesterday's game was SO much better.Last edited by Mauve Shirt; 2010-07-11 at 03:58 PM.
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2010-07-11, 03:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup
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2010-07-11, 03:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup
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2010-07-11, 04:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-07-11, 04:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup
Nooooooooooooooooo! Nooooooooooooo!!!LGBT in the playground - banner by Doihaveaname?.
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2010-07-11, 04:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup
that referee really needs to look up the off-side rules.
the goal wasn't offside, but the pass before that WAS. And now I'm going to leave the forums before I say stuff that attracts a certain never-sleeping mod.
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2010-07-11, 04:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup
The team I dislike from the start always wins the World Cup ...
Congrats to Spain, I guess. Don't think for as much as a second that I'm in any way happy with the result.*Splendid Goatatar by that cool kid Serpentine
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2010-07-11, 04:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup
Here is the real hero of the world cup
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2010-07-11, 04:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup
NOOO!
This makes what, the third time Holland have come so close yet so far?
Oh well, I've had $50 riding on both Holland and Spain to win this thing since the start of the tournament so I'm not TOO disappointed.
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2010-07-11, 04:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup
You know who is the true winner here? that goddammed octopus
with our backs to the wall
For those about to rock,we salute you!
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2010-07-11, 04:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup
Well, so we won. Go us, I guess. Now, to ready myself for a month of uninterrupted not hearing about anything other than this...
(I'm one of those odd Spanish that dislike soccer, yes )
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2010-07-11, 04:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: FIFA 2010 World Cup
Sigh. The teams were rather closely matched, I suppose. And both sides did commit a lot of fouls, but I feel the Netherlands were picked on more than Spain...oh well. It wasn't the most exciting game, but you could see that both sides were putting in a ton of effort.
However, I'd like to see how FIFA justifies the exclusion of technology now, after the winning goal of a World Cup Final was the result of an offside pass.