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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is

    Quote Originally Posted by Musashi View Post
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    Maybe I'm spending too much time in all the wrong places on the Internet, or maybe these places are slowly invading the space I used to frequent, but I'm seriously facing issues with several communities; specifically those that promote political correctness and safe space for minorities/oppressed groups.
    There isn't a single day I spend without learning over and over again that because I'm a member of a privileged group (white and cisgender), my opinion is absolutely invalid.
    That -ism (racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc) is a combination of power and I forgot the second part, and therefore, that there isn't such a thing as a -ist insult/treatment against white/cisgender people, anywhere.
    That it's absolutely not okay to use various words that can possibly insult oppressed groups, but that it's perfectly okay to tell someone "lol you're such a [possible nickname for Richard]/[biscuit Polly often wants]".
    That women alone need protection, but that men should endure misandrist insults toward them - sorry, I forgot misandry doesn't exist - and that the same goes for cisgender people and such.
    That as long as I'm member of a single privileged group, I deserve the dismissal and insults.
    That my personal story shouldn't matter, and that even if the worse I ever did was using a bad word once in good faith - and accepting to change my vocabulary once I learn why it's bad, if I'm even told why this specific word is bad - the rest of the community can treat me badly.

    I am getting angry. Not at any group, or even at any particular person. But I am tired of that attitude.
    I'm feeling more and more that, being asexual - in a particular fashion that makes me appear as straight today - I don't exactly count in the big group of LGBTQ+ people. Maybe I'm just an ally who deludes herself. Perhaps there isn't such a thing as demisexuals, and I'm just extremely picky and awkward. After all, I'm not being oppressed because of that, just annoyed in various ways that straight ciswomen generally are.
    But that is not a part of myself I wanted to question. I feel like that questioning only comes because of my frustration.

    Look, I don't pretend I can speak in the name of any community that isn't asexual. I never did. But I'd like some respect. The same respect I'm giving to anyone else. Of course, I'm cissplaining/whitesplaining, so of course I'm seeing the world from a privileged point of view...
    [Bovine excrement]. I don't need to be treated like [REDACTED]. Yesterday alone, several Jewish kids and their teacher were killed gruesomely for reasons that are very probably racist. The murderer killed other people the week before, people that were considered "foreigners" by bigots. The murderer is still around, and though the chances are very small I risk anything, he still killed people who shared my ancestry, just because they existed. Oh, I'm white, my opinion on everything is invalid? I don't know, that sounded quite like oppression. Oh, but I'm still cisgender. That still invalids a bunch of stuff I say.

    Whatever happens, I'm not going to let my frustration devolve into hate. We all deserve respect for what and who we are, as long as our acts are equally deserving of respect. I'm still supporting LGBTQ+ issues even if it turns out I'm not actually part of it. Oh, I know LGBTQ+ people don't need my help or approval. Nobody friggin' needs it. I'm not here to empower anyone. I just love you guys, yes, every single of you in that thread, and others, too.
    What I just want is a little respect. Spouting more hate in reaction to hate won't help anything. It never did. One party has to act civilized and understanding to stop the circle of hate, and I'm not sure we can count on the white, cisgender, straight and/or male majority for this.

    Sorry, but I needed to let go some steam.
    I feel for you, being a cisgendered white straight male myself. Why do they have issues with other people advocating for them? Granted, my main problem , being in Texas, will probably be people assuming I am gay because I advocate for LGBT and I can say the word 'gay" without saying something hateful or mean in the same sentence(I am not exaggerating much here). Thankfully, most my friends either are mildly in favor of LGBT rights and such, or just plain don't care what other people do, because it's their business, not his or her business.
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  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is

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  3. - Top - End - #93
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    Default Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is

    Quote Originally Posted by Musashi View Post
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    Maybe I'm spending too much time in all the wrong places on the Internet, or maybe these places are slowly invading the space I used to frequent, but I'm seriously facing issues with several communities; specifically those that promote political correctness and safe space for minorities/oppressed groups.
    There isn't a single day I spend without learning over and over again that because I'm a member of a privileged group (white and cisgender), my opinion is absolutely invalid.
    That -ism (racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc) is a combination of power and I forgot the second part, and therefore, that there isn't such a thing as a -ist insult/treatment against white/cisgender people, anywhere.
    That it's absolutely not okay to use various words that can possibly insult oppressed groups, but that it's perfectly okay to tell someone "lol you're such a [possible nickname for Richard]/[biscuit Polly often wants]".
    That women alone need protection, but that men should endure misandrist insults toward them - sorry, I forgot misandry doesn't exist - and that the same goes for cisgender people and such.
    That as long as I'm member of a single privileged group, I deserve the dismissal and insults.
    That my personal story shouldn't matter, and that even if the worse I ever did was using a bad word once in good faith - and accepting to change my vocabulary once I learn why it's bad, if I'm even told why this specific word is bad - the rest of the community can treat me badly.

    I am getting angry. Not at any group, or even at any particular person. But I am tired of that attitude.
    I'm feeling more and more that, being asexual - in a particular fashion that makes me appear as straight today - I don't exactly count in the big group of LGBTQ+ people. Maybe I'm just an ally who deludes herself. Perhaps there isn't such a thing as demisexuals, and I'm just extremely picky and awkward. After all, I'm not being oppressed because of that, just annoyed in various ways that straight ciswomen generally are.
    But that is not a part of myself I wanted to question. I feel like that questioning only comes because of my frustration.

    Look, I don't pretend I can speak in the name of any community that isn't asexual. I never did. But I'd like some respect. The same respect I'm giving to anyone else. Of course, I'm cissplaining/whitesplaining, so of course I'm seeing the world from a privileged point of view...
    [Bovine excrement]. I don't need to be treated like [REDACTED]. Yesterday alone, several Jewish kids and their teacher were killed gruesomely for reasons that are very probably racist. The murderer killed other people the week before, people that were considered "foreigners" by bigots. The murderer is still around, and though the chances are very small I risk anything, he still killed people who shared my ancestry, just because they existed. Oh, I'm white, my opinion on everything is invalid? I don't know, that sounded quite like oppression. Oh, but I'm still cisgender. That still invalids a bunch of stuff I say.

    Whatever happens, I'm not going to let my frustration devolve into hate. We all deserve respect for what and who we are, as long as our acts are equally deserving of respect. I'm still supporting LGBTQ+ issues even if it turns out I'm not actually part of it. Oh, I know LGBTQ+ people don't need my help or approval. Nobody friggin' needs it. I'm not here to empower anyone. I just love you guys, yes, every single of you in that thread, and others, too.
    What I just want is a little respect. Spouting more hate in reaction to hate won't help anything. It never did. One party has to act civilized and understanding to stop the circle of hate, and I'm not sure we can count on the white, cisgender, straight and/or male majority for this.

    Sorry, but I needed to let go some steam.
    Sadly, as was shown by the experiences of our current favorite blogger, being Trans or Gay or Feminist, or any such label or identity, does not automatically make one not an idiot, flaming or otherwise, or do anything about the seeds of hatred that may dwell within a person's heart.
    Last edited by Coidzor; 2012-03-20 at 07:47 PM.
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  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Default Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfinor View Post
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    I find the 'born this way' movement a little offensive, personally. The hatred and slander I heard (but mostly read) from LGBT people against Cynthia Nixon (who said that she had experienced male and female relationships, and chose to be a lesbian) was disgusting. She even explicitly stated that some people were born this way, but she was not. The most common comment types that I saw/heard were 'that's not helpful' and 'you'll never understand my pain!'.

    I think 'born this way' is an acceptance crutch that people need to get rid of. It implies that we predetermined destiny once we pop out, and simply enables bigotry against a smaller minority - people who change over the course their lives. Identifying as another gender isn't wrong, whether you were born that way, been that way since puberty, choose it or just one day find it suits you the best.

    If the biphobia I've experienced is any indication, you might experience some bigotry from the people who should be the most accepting. But I hope it all goes well.
    Well if it's all the same, my best friend made me promise to have sex with a woman at least once, just to make sure. But I'd probably have to be a threeway so A I can get it up, and B *sings song*

    Quote Originally Posted by Lil Shiro View Post
    So um... My boyfriend was cornered today in his catholic school, and apparently some pretty nasty things were said to him, but he just sat there and took it until they started saying rude things about me. At that point he started violently cursing at them, which shut them up. He did not get in trouble, but neither did the homophobes.
    God d*mn it! I hate it when that kind of stuff happens! But at least he got out unharmed, not to say anything about the words they said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Frog View Post
    That seriously a bummer that he was being bullied and the homophobes didn't get what they deserved, but is it weird that I find that whole situation oddly cute/romantic? He only got heated up under the collar when they were insulting you, but he was willing to sit there and take it when it was only about him. Forgive me; my mind works in strange ways.
    Well I was thinking the same way... I thought it was cute how he stood up for his Mizz Mitchell. (again with semi-making fun of Shiro, well it's probably just jealousy... *Darren Criss song starts*)

    In other news, Matt Bomer was my fourth celebrity crush, but when I found out he was gay, he went up a place due to my d'aw-ing, behind D Criss and NPH. I wonder if I should invoke rule 34... Or 61 (46 in the 47 rules version), you know, if you like that stuff.
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  5. - Top - End - #95
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    Default Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is

    Quote Originally Posted by Lil Shiro View Post
    So um... My boyfriend was cornered today in his catholic school, and apparently some pretty nasty things were said to him, but he just sat there and took it until they started saying rude things about me. At that point he started violently cursing at them, which shut them up. He did not get in trouble, but neither did the homophobes.
    Sorry your boyfriend had to go through that. It is really sweet that once they insulted you he chewed them out though.

    It's weird they faced no punishment, but hopefully they'll learn an important lesson about love and gender from it anyways.
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  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Default Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is

    Quote Originally Posted by Lil Shiro View Post
    So um... My boyfriend was cornered today in his catholic school, and apparently some pretty nasty things were said to him, but he just sat there and took it until they started saying rude things about me. At that point he started violently cursing at them, which shut them up. He did not get in trouble, but neither did the homophobes.
    *hugs very very tightly* Aside from "This was bad" i can't say too much of what i'm thinking right now on the board, so I'll just say that I hope things get better there for you.

    Remember, you two aren't the problem.
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  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is

    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Frog View Post
    "Male....Female...what does it matter? Power is beautiful, and I've got the power!"
    Chrono Trigger! <3

    Also, I don't think I've said hi yet, so, uhmm... Hi!

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    Lucky. I still need to make that skirt I was talking about a few threads back.

    I remember the first time I used feminine pronouns without thinking about it - it's so weird, isn't it?
    You should make it~

    Heh, I sometimes have to do a double-take in public and a make sure I refer to myself in the "proper" way. >.>

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    I had similar concerns, but for different reasons... I grew to respect transpeople for all of the adversities we face. I actually felt like I wasn't 'worthy' to identify as one. That doesn't make terribly much sense thinking back, but I was preoccupied with how horrifying it meant my childhood was... :/
    [/COLOR]
    It was sorta odd for me; I figured out my gender stuff mostly through talking with a genderqueer friend; me identifying as a girl sorta felt like a "betrayal" or something I shouldn't, as opposed to being genderqueer. (I thought this way; she's been super supportive all through and helped me get over those feelings.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Arachu View Post
    *Hugs* I'm sure things'll work out great.
    Thank you.

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    I find the 'born this way' movement a little offensive, personally. The hatred and slander I heard (but mostly read) from LGBT people against Cynthia Nixon (who said that she had experienced male and female relationships, and chose to be a lesbian) was disgusting. She even explicitly stated that some people were born this way, but she was not. The most common comment types that I saw/heard were 'that's not helpful' and 'you'll never understand my pain!'.

    I think 'born this way' is an acceptance crutch that people need to get rid of. It implies that we predetermined destiny once we pop out, and simply enables bigotry against a smaller minority - people who change over the course their lives. Identifying as another gender isn't wrong, whether you were born that way, been that way since puberty, choose it or just one day find it suits you the best.

    If the biphobia I've experienced is any indication, you might experience some bigotry from the people who should be the most accepting. But I hope it all goes well.
    It's problematic, yes. I feel it's sorta vilifying; in a "this is a problem we have, but we can't help it" sorta way. The what's and why someone is queer should have nothing to do with acceptance. People have agency over their own lives; nothing queer folk do harms anyone; thus there is no reason not to accept them and treat them equally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Musashi View Post
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    Maybe I'm spending too much time in all the wrong places on the Internet, or maybe these places are slowly invading the space I used to frequent, but I'm seriously facing issues with several communities; specifically those that promote political correctness and safe space for minorities/oppressed groups.
    There isn't a single day I spend without learning over and over again that because I'm a member of a privileged group (white and cisgender), my opinion is absolutely invalid.
    That -ism (racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc) is a combination of power and I forgot the second part, and therefore, that there isn't such a thing as a -ist insult/treatment against white/cisgender people, anywhere.
    That it's absolutely not okay to use various words that can possibly insult oppressed groups, but that it's perfectly okay to tell someone "lol you're such a [possible nickname for Richard]/[biscuit Polly often wants]".
    That women alone need protection, but that men should endure misandrist insults toward them - sorry, I forgot misandry doesn't exist - and that the same goes for cisgender people and such.
    That as long as I'm member of a single privileged group, I deserve the dismissal and insults.
    That my personal story shouldn't matter, and that even if the worse I ever did was using a bad word once in good faith - and accepting to change my vocabulary once I learn why it's bad, if I'm even told why this specific word is bad - the rest of the community can treat me badly.

    I am getting angry. Not at any group, or even at any particular person. But I am tired of that attitude.
    I'm feeling more and more that, being asexual - in a particular fashion that makes me appear as straight today - I don't exactly count in the big group of LGBTQ+ people. Maybe I'm just an ally who deludes herself. Perhaps there isn't such a thing as demisexuals, and I'm just extremely picky and awkward. After all, I'm not being oppressed because of that, just annoyed in various ways that straight ciswomen generally are.
    But that is not a part of myself I wanted to question. I feel like that questioning only comes because of my frustration.

    Look, I don't pretend I can speak in the name of any community that isn't asexual. I never did. But I'd like some respect. The same respect I'm giving to anyone else. Of course, I'm cissplaining/whitesplaining, so of course I'm seeing the world from a privileged point of view...
    [Bovine excrement]. I don't need to be treated like [REDACTED]. Yesterday alone, several Jewish kids and their teacher were killed gruesomely for reasons that are very probably racist. The murderer killed other people the week before, people that were considered "foreigners" by bigots. The murderer is still around, and though the chances are very small I risk anything, he still killed people who shared my ancestry, just because they existed. Oh, I'm white, my opinion on everything is invalid? I don't know, that sounded quite like oppression. Oh, but I'm still cisgender. That still invalids a bunch of stuff I say.

    Whatever happens, I'm not going to let my frustration devolve into hate. We all deserve respect for what and who we are, as long as our acts are equally deserving of respect. I'm still supporting LGBTQ+ issues even if it turns out I'm not actually part of it. Oh, I know LGBTQ+ people don't need my help or approval. Nobody friggin' needs it. I'm not here to empower anyone. I just love you guys, yes, every single of you in that thread, and others, too.
    What I just want is a little respect. Spouting more hate in reaction to hate won't help anything. It never did. One party has to act civilized and understanding to stop the circle of hate, and I'm not sure we can count on the white, cisgender, straight and/or male majority for this.

    Sorry, but I needed to let go some steam.
    While bigotry against white, cisgender, etc... isn't institutionalized on levels like sexism, homophobia and such; but that doesn't mean you can't be hateful towards these groups... :/

    I think that's a problem with minorities in general; because they were discriminated against they think they can't engage is -isms.
    (I've seen trans-bigotry, ace-bigotry coming from LGB, biphobia, trans supremacists, etc... )

    I like having you around in the thread though. :c

    And I'm really sorry about the whole argument last time...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lil Shiro View Post
    So um... My boyfriend was cornered today in his catholic school, and apparently some pretty nasty things were said to him, but he just sat there and took it until they started saying rude things about me. At that point he started violently cursing at them, which shut them up. He did not get in trouble, but neither did the homophobes.
    Ugh, that's horrible. :/
    Last edited by Astrella; 2012-03-21 at 02:30 AM.
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  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Default Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is

    Quote Originally Posted by Lil Shiro View Post
    So um... My boyfriend was cornered today in his catholic school, and apparently some pretty nasty things were said to him, but he just sat there and took it until they started saying rude things about me. At that point he started violently cursing at them, which shut them up. He did not get in trouble, but neither did the homophobes.
    It happens. And if it's not because he's gay it's because something else. It was sweet of him to defend you, though; you're lucky to have each other.
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    Default Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is

    Quote Originally Posted by supernerd View Post
    Well if it's all the same, my best friend made me promise to have sex with a woman at least once, just to make sure. But I'd probably have to be a threeway so A I can get it up, and B *sings song*
    I was never too fond of that "testing" thing - it sort of makes sense if you're questioning, but it's not like you can't tell whether you're attracted to someone just because they're wearing pants.

    Honestly, I think you should take the promise back if you feel you'd be uncomfortable with it. I almost want to say you should even if you're okay with it, just because he made you promise it (I mean, that's so rude!). :/

    If you are comfortable with it, though, there (hopefully) shouldn't be any harm in it. Even if the experiment proves what you already know, it could still be pretty awesome.


    Quote Originally Posted by Astrella View Post
    You should make it~

    Heh, I sometimes have to do a double-take in public and a make sure I refer to myself in the "proper" way. >.>
    Yes I should...

    I haven't actually had much trouble compartmentalizing (that may just be because I don't talk much in boymode), but I do have to go to great lengths to act like people who call me a girl aren't accidentally flattering me.


    It was sorta odd for me; I figured out my gender stuff mostly through talking with a genderqueer friend; me identifying as a girl sorta felt like a "betrayal" or something I shouldn't. (I thought this way; she's been super supportive all through and helped me get over those feelings.)
    Gah, I had something like that too... I actually felt like I was betraying the genitals I already had (it makes... About as much sense in context). There wasn't any denying it when I started noticing how weird it feels, though... :/

    (Sorry about that, I've been having trouble figuring out something else lately. :Shrug:)

    Anyway, could you be so kind as to send some *hugs* to your friend from me? It's good to know you have someone to help you.


    It's problematic, yes. I feel it's sorta vilifying; in a "this is a problem we have, but we can't help it" sorta way. The what's and why someone is queer should have nothing to do with acceptance. People have agency over their own lives; nothing queer folk do harms anyone; thus there is no reason not to accept them and treat them equally.
    True. It sounds almost like claiming that it's a condition instead of a simple state of being. :/

    Besides, I prefer the line "we're here, we're queer - get over it!".
    Thanks for existing.

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    Default Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is

    Quote Originally Posted by Asta Kask View Post
    It happens. And if it's not because he's gay it's because something else. It was sweet of him to defend you, though; you're lucky to have each other.
    Pretty much this. I'm still of the opinion that everyone should be locked in an institution shortly before puberty and only let out when they've demonstrated capacity for empathy again.
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    Default Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is

    I think the general up-itself-ness of the queer community online is one of the reasons to avoid bits of it. Being LGBTQAwhatever does not mean that you can't be petty, shallow, stupid and attention-seeking, and it certainly isn't a total morality embargo.

    I've seen a lot of the behaviour Musashi ranted about, and yeah, it is a bit endemic in places. Shame, really.
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    Default Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is

    Quote Originally Posted by Arachu View Post
    [COLOR="Navy"]I haven't actually had much trouble compartmentalizing (that may just be because I don't talk much in boymode), but I do have to go to great lengths to act like people who call me a girl aren't accidentally flattering me.
    It's sorta awkward sometimes because I second-guess myself doubly sometimes. I used to get bullied for being "girly" in mannerisms but they're starting to shine through again a bit which makes me self-conscious as to not draw overly attention. (Likely me overreaction, but.. )

    Quote Originally Posted by Arachu View Post
    Gah, I had something like that too... I actually felt like I was betraying the genitals I already had (it makes... About as much sense in context). There wasn't any denying it when I started noticing how weird it feels, though... :/

    Anyway, could you be so kind as to send some *hugs* to your friend from me? It's good to know you have someone to help you.
    Well; I meant more in a "identifying as a girl means I'm holding onto gender stereotypes and the like; I should be genderqueer" sorta way.

    I'm lucky that I have a pretty supportive group of online friends.

    -----

    And at least it made me realize why I like Mulan so much. Reflection is a song that just rings so true.

    Also, essential linky with regards to people being asses.
    Last edited by Astrella; 2012-03-21 at 04:10 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serpentine View Post
    Hmmm... It's hard to describe, but for me I'd say that sexual attraction is a big part of the development of romantic feelings, but the development of romantic feelings can influence my sexual attraction.
    (eh, me too )You think that's a bit like demi-sexuals with what wiki says to be secondary sexual attraction, or just part of the idealization process?
    -
    Quote Originally Posted by Musashi View Post
    Unrelated rant incoming:
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    Maybe I'm spending too much time in all the wrong places on the Internet, or maybe these places are slowly invading the space I used to frequent, but I'm seriously facing issues with several communities; specifically those that promote political correctness and safe space for minorities/oppressed groups.
    There isn't a single day I spend without learning over and over again that because I'm a member of a privileged group (white and cisgender), my opinion is absolutely invalid.
    That -ism (racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc) is a combination of power and I forgot the second part, and therefore, that there isn't such a thing as a -ist insult/treatment against white/cisgender people, anywhere.
    That it's absolutely not okay to use various words that can possibly insult oppressed groups, but that it's perfectly okay to tell someone "lol you're such a [possible nickname for Richard]/[biscuit Polly often wants]".
    That women alone need protection, but that men should endure misandrist insults toward them - sorry, I forgot misandry doesn't exist - and that the same goes for cisgender people and such.
    That as long as I'm member of a single privileged group, I deserve the dismissal and insults.
    That my personal story shouldn't matter, and that even if the worse I ever did was using a bad word once in good faith - and accepting to change my vocabulary once I learn why it's bad, if I'm even told why this specific word is bad - the rest of the community can treat me badly.

    I am getting angry. Not at any group, or even at any particular person. But I am tired of that attitude.
    I'm feeling more and more that, being asexual - in a particular fashion that makes me appear as straight today - I don't exactly count in the big group of LGBTQ+ people. Maybe I'm just an ally who deludes herself. Perhaps there isn't such a thing as demisexuals, and I'm just extremely picky and awkward. After all, I'm not being oppressed because of that, just annoyed in various ways that straight ciswomen generally are.
    But that is not a part of myself I wanted to question. I feel like that questioning only comes because of my frustration.

    Look, I don't pretend I can speak in the name of any community that isn't asexual. I never did. But I'd like some respect. The same respect I'm giving to anyone else. Of course, I'm cissplaining/whitesplaining, so of course I'm seeing the world from a privileged point of view...
    [Bovine excrement]. I don't need to be treated like [REDACTED]. Yesterday alone, several Jewish kids and their teacher were killed gruesomely for reasons that are very probably racist. The murderer killed other people the week before, people that were considered "foreigners" by bigots. The murderer is still around, and though the chances are very small I risk anything, he still killed people who shared my ancestry, just because they existed. Oh, I'm white, my opinion on everything is invalid? I don't know, that sounded quite like oppression. Oh, but I'm still cisgender. That still invalids a bunch of stuff I say.

    Whatever happens, I'm not going to let my frustration devolve into hate. We all deserve respect for what and who we are, as long as our acts are equally deserving of respect. I'm still supporting LGBTQ+ issues even if it turns out I'm not actually part of it. Oh, I know LGBTQ+ people don't need my help or approval. Nobody friggin' needs it. I'm not here to empower anyone. I just love you guys, yes, every single of you in that thread, and others, too.
    What I just want is a little respect. Spouting more hate in reaction to hate won't help anything. It never did. One party has to act civilized and understanding to stop the circle of hate, and I'm not sure we can count on the white, cisgender, straight and/or male majority for this.
    Ouch. It's weird, last I heard, anything anti-white was being called reverse racism like it's completely different. I love the way you censored it, although...what's that one about Polly's biscuits? *is dumb
    Last edited by squidbreath; 2012-03-21 at 04:40 AM.
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    Default Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is

    Quote Originally Posted by Arachu View Post
    I was never too fond of that "testing" thing - it sort of makes sense if you're questioning, but it's not like you can't tell whether you're attracted to someone just because they're wearing pants.

    Honestly, I think you should take the promise back if you feel you'd be uncomfortable with it. I almost want to say you should even if you're okay with it, just because he made you promise it (I mean, that's so rude!). :/

    If you are comfortable with it, though, there (hopefully) shouldn't be any harm in it. Even if the experiment proves what you already know, it could still be pretty awesome.
    Well no offense to the females on this forum, I find the concept of a vagina to be disgusting, so yeah, but she didn't mean any harm by it. She believes she is straight, but apparently will be finding out in college...
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    Default Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is

    Thanks for letting me rant last night, everyone. That's an issue I'm seeing more and more, and obviously, it's not something I can discuss at these places. Beside, I'm only lurking in these comms, in part because I know I will eventually say something that angers/offends people without even realizing it.
    Feh. I keep ranting about egocentric issues instead of contributing to the conversation. I'm glad I at least managed to stay semi-coherent and civil. Too many censored words too, and I struggled not to write more swears I'd have to censor anyway. I swear like I use proper punctuation, it's terrible!

    Quote Originally Posted by Astrella View Post
    I like having you around in the thread though. :c

    And I'm really sorry about the whole argument last time...
    Aww. Thank you very much. *hugs*
    Don't worry about it. It's mostly forgotten, and that was not even the kind of situation I was ranting about. That one was an exceptional discussion that allowed everyone to give their opinion, even though it got heated. I'm talking about casual displays of hate that disallow all feedback due to some weird kind of logical loop.

    Quote Originally Posted by squidbreath View Post
    I love the way you censored it, although...what's that one about Polly's biscuits? *is dumb
    "Polly wants a cracker!"
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    In those same places, I learnt cracker was a derogatory term for white people, probably in reference to the cracking of whips of slave owners, something like that... I didn't see a definitive explanation beside "it's directed at white people".






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    Default Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is

    Quote Originally Posted by Astrella View Post
    Well; I meant more in a "identifying as a girl means I'm holding onto gender stereotypes and the like; I should be genderqueer" sorta way.
    That's ridiculous. The only way that's even halfway a legitimate thought is if one subscribes to a deeply flawed belief that everyone should be (or is) genderqueer. Which is just as bad and wrong as saying that everyone is bi and in varying degrees and states of denial which is just as wrong as denying that homosexuality exists like some homophobes do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arachu View Post
    I was never too fond of that "testing" thing - it sort of makes sense if you're questioning, but it's not like you can't tell whether you're attracted to someone just because they're wearing pants.
    Indeed, if one is that uncertain, then one should just own up to being Questioning, really. Don't most people just know it, in a sort of know it in their bones kind of way except for people who are Questioning and those people who seem to permanently be in a state of flux on multiple fronts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arachu View Post
    Honestly, I think you should take the promise back if you feel you'd be uncomfortable with it. I almost want to say you should even if you're okay with it, just because he made you promise it (I mean, that's so rude!). :/
    It's the sort of promise one shouldn't make, one shouldn't ask of someone else, and is largely meaningless and should not be tried to be called in and one should laugh in the face of anyone who tries to do so. Preferably rudely before giving them a lesson in basic ethics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arachu View Post
    I actually felt like I was betraying the genitals I already had
    Fortunately genitalia and gonads don't have feelings or awareness themselves.

    Or else we'd be in a lot worse shape than we already are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arachu View Post
    True. It sounds almost like claiming that it's a condition instead of a simple state of being. :/
    Indeed... At times I catch myself imagining the hypothetical storms of excrement that will go down once science figures it out, and just what people who will refuse to acknowledge it will say instead.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    That's ridiculous. The only way that's even halfway a legitimate thought is if one subscribes to a deeply flawed belief that everyone should be (or is) genderqueer. Which is just as bad and wrong as saying that everyone is bi and in varying degrees and states of denial which is just as wrong as denying that homosexuality exists like some homophobes do.
    Well it was more a "I was born a boy; I don't know what being a girl is like; but I know I'm not a boy; gaaah; why is this so confusing; I don't have a right to claim I'm a girl; maybe I'm genderqueer?; but I just want to be seen as a girl, not genderqueer; why is this so confusingggg...." and couple that with a bunch of suppressed feeling surfacing.
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    Default Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is

    Quote Originally Posted by Musashi View Post
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    In those same places, I learnt cracker was a derogatory term for white people, probably in reference to the cracking of whips of slave owners, something like that... I didn't see a definitive explanation beside "it's directed at white people".
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    If I remember correctly, it did refer to the cracking of whips, but ones being used by cattle herders. Not entirely sure how it got to be a slur from that origin, unless herding cows was seen as a bad thing, but language is wonky. Though I got... Three hours of sleep, I think?... so that could be me misremembering, and it's also possible that that particular derivation is a regionalism.

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    Default Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is

    On the general topic of Musashi's rant:
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    Come talk about my thesis on privilege, erasure, representation, etc. in queer studies.

    Share your ideas, feelings, experiences, questions, thoughts, concerns, baked goods, etc.

    i'll start out by explaining my thesis topic and showing some of what i've done so far. for a sneak peak, you can go to one of my thesis blogs, which is: [snip]

    then we will spend the rest of the time talking about queer studies as an academic discipline, accessibility of the texts, whitewashing of queerness, and more

    it will be a great time for sure

    snacks as always

    maybe ace credit, maybe not, let me know if you're into that

    also, this event is only open to individuals that identify as l,g,b,t,(or)q as my thesis is solely about queer perspectives & experiences

    ps please invite your friends!!
    Remember that talk on female sexuality I was kicked out of a couple of weeks ago? Well, the girl who ran that is giving a talk on her thesis, and this is the email she sent out.
    See that bolded bit?

    Clearly somebody has failed to understand the point of her own thesis. Preaching to the choir is rather pointless, so the only reason to write something like that is to spread awareness to other, more privileged groups. Intentionally excluding them kind of defeats the purpose.
    If you want to change the culture of privilege, power, and difference (book title), don't exclude the people who need to learn about their own privilege, and definitely don't alienate those people who realise their privilege and are trying to work with you to create equality.

    So, who wants to bet I won't be allowed in because asexual doesn't count as queer?


    Edit: I just realised she didn't even give a time or place, so my last question is kind of moot.

    Also:
    Quote Originally Posted by Musashi View Post
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    In those same places, I learnt cracker was a derogatory term for white people, probably in reference to the cracking of whips of slave owners, something like that... I didn't see a definitive explanation beside "it's directed at white people".
    I love this site.
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    Default Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is

    Quote Originally Posted by noparlpf View Post
    On the general topic of Musashi's rant:
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    Remember that talk on female sexuality I was kicked out of a couple of weeks ago? Well, the girl who ran that is giving a talk on her thesis, and this is the email she sent out.
    See that bolded bit?

    Clearly somebody has failed to understand the point of her own thesis. Preaching to the choir is rather pointless, so the only reason to write something like that is to spread awareness to other, more privileged groups. Intentionally excluding them kind of defeats the purpose.
    If you want to change the culture of privilege, power, and difference (book title), don't exclude the people who need to learn about their own privilege, and definitely don't alienate those people who realise their privilege and are trying to work with you to create equality.

    So, who wants to bet I won't be allowed in because asexual doesn't count as queer?
    Rubbish; it's not her job to police people's identities nor is it anyone's job. I agree with what you are saying; maybe send her an email explaining your issues?
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    Default Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is

    Indeed. Preaching to the choir like that only means that when she actually has to defend her thesis for reals (unless you've got some kind of insanely disproportionate faculty ratios going on) she's not going to have a leg to stand on.
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    Default Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is

    Haha; "Only queer faculty can judge my thesis!"
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    Default Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is

    Quote Originally Posted by noparlpf View Post
    On the general topic of Musashi's rant:
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    Remember that talk on female sexuality I was kicked out of a couple of weeks ago? Well, the girl who ran that is giving a talk on her thesis, and this is the email she sent out.
    See that bolded bit?

    Clearly somebody has failed to understand the point of her own thesis. Preaching to the choir is rather pointless, so the only reason to write something like that is to spread awareness to other, more privileged groups. Intentionally excluding them kind of defeats the purpose.
    If you want to change the culture of privilege, power, and difference (book title), don't exclude the people who need to learn about their own privilege, and definitely don't alienate those people who realise their privilege and are trying to work with you to create equality.

    So, who wants to bet I won't be allowed in because asexual doesn't count as queer?

    Spoiler
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    Well, no one wants to educate the ignorant/oblivious. Sure, no one should had to educate someone who offended them, and one should educate oneself. That would happen in a world that approaches perfection better than ours.
    However? Discussions are getting inane and insane (this last word, by the way, is also offensive in some circles) because of this principle.
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    "[Use of a bad word in an ignorant but innocent context]"
    "Did you seriously say that? You [insult]"
    "Wait, what? What did I say?"
    "You used [bad word]! It's bad! That's terrible!"
    "Really? I'm sorry, I had no idea, it's always been used in a neutral way where I live! How is it bad? Where does it come from?"
    "We're not here to educate you! Educate yourself! You [something]-centrist [insult]!"
    "Why are you mad at me?"
    "You're using the tone argument now? [Link to Derailing for Dummies]"
    "Could you please not use [something]-ist insults at me at least?"
    "[something]-ism doesn't exist, you idiot!"
    "I'm sorry you were offended... by the way, if you're insulting someone just because they are [something they did not choose], that's technically -ist..."
    "No, you're just sorry you got caught and that we dared being offended at the obvious insults you threw at us. By the way, you're now banned because you're too thick to understand anything! Goodbye, [insult]!"

    In short, no one actually learns anything, and everyone pats each others on the back for driving away decent people who made the mistake of not knowing everything there is to know.
    What you're describing here is the same, only without the aggressiveness. Hardly better.

    Also:


    I love this site.
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    Thanks!
    Yeah.
    Another "funny" side effect to the phenomenon I described is that certain definitions are considered wrong by these people, generally those that end with -ism or -phobia. The justification for that is that dictionaries are written by white straight cismales, and their definitions tainted by their point of view.
    Alright, but then, do I really have to check Internet for the "proper" definitions? How can I know for sure the websites I'm checking for research aren't biased too? (That question never came up, but I'm fairly certain the answer would be "if it's written by an oppressed minority, then it can't be biased, silly!".)
    And while some words are obviously bad and should not be used, there are many others who don't look offensive at first glance. Ideally, research should be made before using these, that I agree on. But we're reaching a point where MANY words have bad connotations. Should we research every single word we want to sue? Where, if dictionaries are unreliable?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musashi View Post
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    Well, no one wants to educate the ignorant/oblivious. Sure, no one should had to educate someone who offended them, and one should educate oneself. That would happen in a world that approaches perfection better than ours.
    However? Discussions are getting inane and insane (this last word, by the way, is also offensive in some circles) because of this principle.
    Spoiler
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    "[Use of a bad word in an ignorant but innocent context]"
    "Did you seriously say that? You [insult]"
    "Wait, what? What did I say?"
    "You used [bad word]! It's bad! That's terrible!"
    "Really? I'm sorry, I had no idea, it's always been used in a neutral way where I live! How is it bad? Where does it come from?"
    "We're not here to educate you! Educate yourself! You [something]-centrist [insult]!"
    "Why are you mad at me?"
    "You're using the tone argument now? [Link to Derailing for Dummies]"
    "Could you please not use [something]-ist insults at me at least?"
    "[something]-ism doesn't exist, you idiot!"
    "I'm sorry you were offended... by the way, if you're insulting someone just because they are [something they did not choose], that's technically -ist..."
    "No, you're just sorry you got caught and that we dared being offended at the obvious insults you threw at us. By the way, you're now banned because you're too thick to understand anything! Goodbye, [insult]!"

    In short, no one actually learns anything, and everyone pats each others on the back for driving away decent people who made the mistake of not knowing everything there is to know.
    What you're describing here is the same, only without the aggressiveness. Hardly better.


    Spoiler
    Show
    Thanks!
    Yeah.
    Another "funny" side effect to the phenomenon I described is that certain definitions are considered wrong by these people, generally those that end with -ism or -phobia. The justification for that is that dictionaries are written by white straight cismales, and their definitions tainted by their point of view.
    Alright, but then, do I really have to check Internet for the "proper" definitions? How can I know for sure the websites I'm checking for research aren't biased too? (That question never came up, but I'm fairly certain the answer would be "if it's written by an oppressed minority, then it can't be biased, silly!".)
    And while some words are obviously bad and should not be used, there are many others who don't look offensive at first glance. Ideally, research should be made before using these, that I agree on. But we're reaching a point where MANY words have bad connotations. Should we research every single word we want to sue? Where, if dictionaries are unreliable?
    Exactly. Just because half a dozen people in one place on the internet consider "cookie" to be a bad word doesn't mean anybody else has any way of knowing that. Yes, it would be nice if people knew things on their own. On the other hand, schools and teachers exist because it doesn't work that way. And nobody learns everything in school. When somebody doesn't know something that you think they should know, and they're expressing interest in learning, yeah, teaching them is the right thing to do, whether you "ought" to have to or not.
    And you want inane? In my Gender Studies class, we frequently had a couple of people shouting the same things back and forth at each other, getting louder each time.
    Jude P.

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    Default Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyesmith View Post
    I think the general up-itself-ness of the queer community online is one of the reasons to avoid bits of it. Being LGBTQAwhatever does not mean that you can't be petty, shallow, stupid and attention-seeking, and it certainly isn't a total morality embargo.

    I've seen a lot of the behaviour Musashi ranted about, and yeah, it is a bit endemic in places. Shame, really.
    Darn tootin'. These days, I almost want to cringe in horror when someone identifies themselves as part of a gay subculture (such as being a "bear") just because of the rep that sort of thing has earned. Yet at the same time, I know I'm also selling those non-arrogant people short by doing that.

    Quote Originally Posted by supernerd View Post
    Well no offense to the females on this forum, I find the concept of a vagina to be disgusting, so yeah, but she didn't mean any harm by it. She believes she is straight, but apparently will be finding out in college...
    Just because she's not satisfactorily sure of her orientation doesn't mean you aren't too. The whole promise you had to make to your friend seems kind of insulting, because really, why should she care so much to have you make that promise? The fact that it would need to be a three-way for you to even "get it up" should say enough by itself.

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    Default Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is

    Jaysus, ye've been going fast since I left. Lucky Nope is around to say what we think!

    Also, I just suggested Asta to make the new thread because I like the idea of passing the thread-making around so I picked a person I hadn't seen make one. Trisc works just as well.

    Also also, first post, I would again like to point out that it was Qaera who made the dictionary and me who added it to the first post. Obviously it's not a huge big deal, but just to say.

    Quote Originally Posted by noparlpf View Post
    On the general topic of Musashi's rant:
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    Remember that talk on female sexuality I was kicked out of a couple of weeks ago? Well, the girl who ran that is giving a talk on her thesis, and this is the email she sent out.
    See that bolded bit?

    Clearly somebody has failed to understand the point of her own thesis. Preaching to the choir is rather pointless, so the only reason to write something like that is to spread awareness to other, more privileged groups. Intentionally excluding them kind of defeats the purpose.
    If you want to change the culture of privilege, power, and difference (book title), don't exclude the people who need to learn about their own privilege, and definitely don't alienate those people who realise their privilege and are trying to work with you to create equality.

    So, who wants to bet I won't be allowed in because asexual doesn't count as queer?


    Edit: I just realised she didn't even give a time or place, so my last question is kind of moot.
    I had a similar situation come up yesterday; the LGBT Officer on the student union committee of my college apparently has to be L, G, B or T. I was unable to discern if other letters "counted", but apparently A for Ally doesn't. I can understand, in both these cases, wanting to keep the focus on the people who are most important to the thing and also often overlooked, but I think it would do equally well and be more justifiable and less exclusionary to include allies and just say that people who are espouse intolerant beliefs about LGBT+ people aren't allowed. After all, I don't think many non-LGBT+ people would run for LGBT Officer anyway. I do wonder if I would count, with my heteronormative relationship. Would I have to "prove" I'm bi? (A straight person can just claim to be bi, I suppose. How would you stop them from getting in?! )

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    Default Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is

    Quote Originally Posted by KenderWizard View Post
    Jaysus, ye've been going fast since I left. Lucky Nope is around to say what we think!

    Also, I just suggested Asta to make the new thread because I like the idea of passing the thread-making around so I picked a person I hadn't seen make one. Trisc works just as well.

    Also also, first post, I would again like to point out that it was Qaera who made the dictionary and me who added it to the first post. Obviously it's not a huge big deal, but just to say.



    I had a similar situation come up yesterday; the LGBT Officer on the student union committee of my college apparently has to be L, G, B or T. I was unable to discern if other letters "counted", but apparently A for Ally doesn't. I can understand, in both these cases, wanting to keep the focus on the people who are most important to the thing and also often overlooked, but I think it would do equally well and be more justifiable and less exclusionary to include allies and just say that people who are espouse intolerant beliefs about LGBT+ people aren't allowed. After all, I don't think many non-LGBT+ people would run for LGBT Officer anyway. I do wonder if I would count, with my heteronormative relationship. Would I have to "prove" I'm bi? (A straight person can just claim to be bi, I suppose. How would you stop them from getting in?! )
    Clearly you have to go make out with several girls.

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  28. - Top - End - #118
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    Default Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is

    Quote Originally Posted by noparlpf View Post
    On the general topic of Musashi's rant:
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    Remember that talk on female sexuality I was kicked out of a couple of weeks ago? Well, the girl who ran that is giving a talk on her thesis, and this is the email she sent out.
    See that bolded bit?

    Clearly somebody has failed to understand the point of her own thesis. Preaching to the choir is rather pointless, so the only reason to write something like that is to spread awareness to other, more privileged groups. Intentionally excluding them kind of defeats the purpose.
    If you want to change the culture of privilege, power, and difference (book title), don't exclude the people who need to learn about their own privilege, and definitely don't alienate those people who realise their privilege and are trying to work with you to create equality.

    So, who wants to bet I won't be allowed in because asexual doesn't count as queer?


    Edit: I just realised she didn't even give a time or place, so my last question is kind of moot.
    This sort of attitude pisses me off. If I lived anywhere close to you I would attend this (I'm allowed to since my letter is in her list) and give her a piece of my mind and point out the blatant -ism going on here (Not sure which -ism it is but it is one (Sexism? Sexuality-ism?))
    "Elephant trunks should be used for elephant things only. Nothing else."

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    Default Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is

    Just changed my name on Facebook, MSN and Skype. This is a scary thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    I just don't want to have long romantic conversations or any sort of drama with my computer, okay? It knows what kind of porn I watch. I don't want to mess that up by allowing it to judge any of my choices in romance.

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    Default Re: LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is

    Quote Originally Posted by Heliomance View Post
    Just changed my name on Facebook, MSN and Skype. This is a scary thing.
    I think you'll be amazed and delighted how much no one cares and how undramatical it will be. Not because we don't care about you, but because we know that the person Heliomance remains the same whatever happens. And it is the person we like and love.

    *hugs*
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    Oooh, and that's a bad miss.

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