Death Battle II - I don't THINK Gara got robbed I KNOW he did.

[Iamyourking]

They did already have her lose to Rogue, and I feel like Thor is on a significantly higher level.

[Anteros]

WW probably has a good chance to win based on her feats...but these are the same people who had her lose to Rogue so I don't see how they can possibly have her win without admitting how wrong they were before...which they would never do.

[HolyDraconus]

Isn't Rogue an Omega though? I was fairly certain, unless they retconned a lot of things about her, that the only thing stopping her from being a god basically from all the different types of powers she's absorbed was her own psyche?

[Dragonus45]

Thor should win but Wonder Woman will win.

[SKarious]

Somehow, I remember WW going toe-to-toe with Superman several times (Although I can't remember when exactly. Injustice, maybe?).
Plus, while Thor is just a sufficiently-advanced-alien (tm), Diana is properly divine.
I just can't see her losing this one.

[Traab]

Somehow, I remember WW going toe-to-toe with Superman several times (Although I can't remember when exactly. Injustice, maybe?).
Plus, while Thor is just a sufficiently-advanced-alien (tm), Diana is properly divine.
I just can't see her losing this one.

That depends on which version you take. In many Thor is an actual norse god of thunder, and has at times held skyfather tier power. Meaning people like darkseid or high end thanos as an example. As for the wonder woman rogue thing, that was a total cop out and stupid fight. I always thought so. They relied entirely on rogues ability to absorb her strength and ignored how she was literally fast and strong enough to burst rogues skull like a ripe melon before any absorption could happen. Like, you have to SERIOUSLY low end optimize wonder woman to make her lose to rogue. Im talking linda carter tv show wonder woman type stuff.

[Mato]

So I'm not sure who will win.

One the one hand Thor has several times demonstrated him self to be cosmic+ but then again Wonder Women, and a couple dozen others, have beaten Superman in Injustice and she just had an amazing movie release. Join the fan bandwagon or strive for infamy? Probably bandwagon, simply because you have to google Thor defeating a god killer but every one knows the plot spoiler point of WW that you probably guessed within point ten seconds after they said the term.

[McNum]

I think one big deciding factor is going to be Mjolnir. Even if everything else was equal, which I highly doubt, mind you, Thor has a personal weapon with stupid powers. Wonder Woman has her Lasso of Truth, yes, but that's no match for Mjolnir. But there is, of course, a wildcard in this: Is Wonder Woman worthy of Mjolnir? Looking at how they both act, I could see Wonder Woman lifting Mjolnir. And that happens, she wins. Wonder Woman with Mjolnir beats Thor without.

[Celestia]

I think one big deciding factor is going to be Mjolnir. Even if everything else was equal, which I highly doubt, mind you, Thor has a personal weapon with stupid powers. Wonder Woman has her Lasso of Truth, yes, but that's no match for Mjolnir. But there is, of course, a wildcard in this: Is Wonder Woman worthy of Mjolnir? Looking at how they both act, I could see Wonder Woman lifting Mjolnir. And that happens, she wins. Wonder Woman with Mjolnir beats Thor without.

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[Rynjin]

Again, assuming they stick by their own rules (large assumption though, I know) Thor has more raw power on a different scale (at his most powerful) even without the fancy hammer. Mjolnir lets Thor control and channel his powers a lot better, but in Death Battle rules he won't be worried about collateral damage so he can just blast lightning and god energy in every direction at once without worrying about it, plus of course his extreme physical strongitude.

Reading the two wikis with cited feats it's hard to imagine how this is even a contest. Thor really does read like Marvel Superman, with many of the same feats (fly through stars, escape gravity of a neutron star, hold a moon together and then spot weld it with lightning) while Wonder Woman's reads as a character that's not nearly as nuts powerful, at one point even specifying "Her resistance to injury is not quite as great as Superman or Supergirl." with her most impressive strength feat being listed as "Held up an ARGUS aircraft".

Wonder woman with Mjolnir has a few extra tricks (...if she even knows how to activate them), but most of what Mjolnir does is amplify and control the powers Thor already has, meaning it's basically just going to be a blunt instrument to beat him with and a mild strength increase.

I don't mean to suck Thor's **** here, I actually prefer Wonder Woman as a character and have personally seen more of her stuff, but this just seems like an insane mismatch.

[Traab]

I think its closer than that. I mean, thor is a god, wonder woman has killed gods. They are on similar tiers of absurdity, and both have had excessive amounts of power creep and seep over the various incarnations. I mean, wonder woman was once held captive because the tape over her eyelashes was too strong or some such thing. On the other hand, thor used to fly like a mortar shell launch and turns back into mild mannered clark kent donald blake if he takes his hand off the hammer for 10 seconds. It gets super silly at the top and bottom of the scale.

[Anteros]

with her most impressive strength feat being listed as "Held up an ARGUS aircraft".

Yeah...that's quite a bit of a lowball. She's Superman's equal in raw strength. Or near enough.
http://i.imgur.com/JfMeCq2.jpg

Also, remember how Death Battle said Superman's strength was infinite because he lifted the Spectre? Yeah, that was actually a group effort and WW was there too. She has pulled people from out of black holes and is fast enough to run into Flash's speed force. Her feats are every bit as ridiculous as Thors.

[McNum]

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That answers that question, I suppose. I know that Superman is not worthy of Mjolnir, can't remember what that was from, but Odin had to unlock it for a moment so Superman could super-hammer someone with it. Comic books are fun like that.

Honestly, with the power scale both of these characters are on at peak performance, this battle could be a good one. I can see an argument both ways, but I think I can make one little prediction: Mjolnir will one way or another be involved with the killing blow.

[Traab]

Did anyone see the magneto/vader fight that got posted? Its one of those just for fun battles with no exploration of the characters, just two guys fighting to the death. It was a fun fight to watch, even though the comic nerd in me was SCREAMING about how lopsided the fight should have been.

[Anteros]

Did anyone see the magneto/vader fight that got posted? Its one of those just for fun battles with no exploration of the characters, just two guys fighting to the death. It was a fun fight to watch, even though the comic nerd in me was SCREAMING about how lopsided the fight should have been.

No, but a show about just cool character fights without Death Battle "logic" infecting it sounds fun. I used to enjoy one minute melee for a similar reason. I'll check it out. Hopefully they avoid the murder-porn stuff that Death Battle has fallen into lately as well.

Edit: Ok, I watched it. The animation was pretty bad. Considering that the whole draw is just watching a mindless fight....you've got to do better than that. Also, why is Vader flying? I know it's "no research" but you can at least stay true to the character's general concept. Otherwise there's just no point at all.

Overall it's pretty disappointing, but I still like the premise. If they can polish it up then I can see myself watching it regularly.

[Rynjin]

Yeah...that's quite a bit of a lowball. She's Superman's equal in raw strength. Or near enough.
http://i.imgur.com/JfMeCq2.jpg

Also, remember how Death Battle said Superman's strength was infinite because he lifted the Spectre? Yeah, that was actually a group effort and WW was there too. She has pulled people from out of black holes and is fast enough to run into Flash's speed force. Her feats are every bit as ridiculous as Thors.

Maybe the disconnect with me is that I read more Marvel comics, but watch more DC television and such. I've seen Thor twirl his hammer a bit and rip a hole in space-time to an alternate universe, but one of my main exposures to Wonder Woman has her being punked out by (the admittedly super cool hook hand version of) Aquaman.

[Anteros]

Maybe the disconnect with me is that I read more Marvel comics, but watch more DC television and such. I've seen Thor twirl his hammer a bit and rip a whole in space-time to an alternate universe, but one of my main exposures to Wonder Woman has her being punked out by (the admittedly super cool hook hand version of) Aquaman.

Yeah, most of the true shenanigans take place in the comics. The versions on TV and even the movies have a pale shadow of the comic character's power. I guess it's a lot easier to write "and then this character bench pressed the sun" when you don't actually have to show it happening.

[Traab]

Thor blurb is up. Im honestly not sure how things are shaping up here. They made sure to mention his world shaking might, his propensity for fighting and defeating gods, so they did a good job at demonstrating at the very least that thor is in wonder womans league. Now it all depends on how they portray wonder woman. As ive said, when it comes to comics they have both attained incredible highs and humiliating lows in abilities. And I know sometimes death battle likes to grab a low for an excuse to end a fight.

[Mato]

Wonder Woman with Mjolnir beats Thor without.

Actually the worthiness enchantment by Odin considers Thor to be the true owner and only reality warping powers can change that. Thor's true power source is his life-force which is noted to exceed Mjolnir's capabilities, he has been shown to use all of his powers without the hammer, and can even reforge it as long as the God Tempest remains dominant so long as self doubt doesn't prevent him from focusing his power.

Also the image you seen is in the Marvel vs DC crossover where Wonder Women says the hammer is more powerful than her. She also tells Storm from the X-Men that with the hammer she is more powerful than Storm, so WW tosses it to the side in order to have a fair fight. And Storm then beats Wonder Women in the official crossover.

I think its closer than that. I mean, thor is a god, wonder woman has killed gods.

I feel like I commented about this over a week ago.

Also, remember how Death Battle said Superman's strength was infinite because he lifted the Spectre?

Yeah and I'm trying to forget that. There is no real evidence that there is even a correlation that Spectre's finite ability to channel God's destructive magical abilities further limited by his host's limitations should have any actual effect on his transformed unconscious host's body weight.

It's also pretty subjective on what Suerman can even lift and you're really walking down a dangerous path trying to base WW's powers off her opponent's abilities otherwise you'll end up claiming Storm is beyond a god killer too.

[HolyDraconus]

Pretty sure that Nick Fury whispered sweet nothing's and Thor lost his hammer.....

[Dragonus45]

Pretty sure that Nick Fury whispered sweet nothing's and Thor lost his hammer.....

WHAT... WHAT DIDST THOU SAY!!

Nicky getting Asgardians disqualified from the hammer by telling Thor something he already knew(gods are *******s) in one of the most idiotic braindead wrong headed train wrecks of a plot twist ever divided (and remember these people thought Captian Hydra was not just a good idea but a culturally relevant) used to set up one of the stupidest legacy characters of the last decade (before Riri came along at least), doesn't have a lot of relevance since Thor (not odinson I have standards) hasn't relied on the hammer for power in ages. He also hasn't seen an appreciable loss of power since losing it either.

[Mato]

Pretty sure that Nick Fury whispered sweet nothing's and Thor lost his hammer.....

That was explained back in spring of this year.

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Fury confirmed Thor's greatest fear that Gorr the God-Butcher was right about the gods being selfish and not caring about mortals.

Also the "female Thor" was Jane Foster. It was also revealed that Mjolnir imprisons the God Tempest, a sentient galaxy-sized storm, which also awoke and impersonated Jane-Thor for a bit too.

Edit: I guess I should use a spoiler for this?

[Anteros]

Actually the worthiness enchantment by Odin considers Thor to be the true owner and only reality warping powers can change that. Thor's true power source is his life-force which is noted to exceed Mjolnir's capabilities, he has been shown to use all of his powers without the hammer, and can even reforge it as long as the God Tempest remains dominant so long as self doubt doesn't prevent him from focusing his power.

Then why can Cap and a few others always pick it up so trivially? Even in situations that aren't life or death? There's definitely some worthiness aspect to it that isn't just "Be Thor".

Yeah and I'm trying to forget that. There is no real evidence that there is even a correlation that Spectre's finite ability to channel God's destructive magical abilities further limited by his host's limitations should have any actual effect on his transformed unconscious host's body weight.

It's also pretty subjective on what Suerman can even lift and you're really walking down a dangerous path trying to base WW's powers off her opponent's abilities otherwise you'll end up claiming Storm is beyond a god killer too.

That's fair enough, but I wasn't saying that I would base Superman or WW's strength on that. I was saying that Death Battle has used that specific feat before to make a claim, and that WW was part of it. So logically they should make the same claim for her, or else run the risk of being inconsistent (ha!)

[Traab]

Then why can Cap and a few others always pick it up so trivially? Even in situations that aren't life or death? There's definitely some worthiness aspect to it that isn't just "Be Thor".


That's fair enough, but I wasn't saying that I would base Superman or WW's strength on that. I was saying that Death Battle has used that specific feat before to make a claim, and that WW was part of it. So logically they should make the same claim for her, or else run the risk of being inconsistent (ha!)

Im hopeful they will use other feats for wonder woman, after all, those images were kind of like garnish on the whole "superman is obnoxiously, impossibly strong, his very existence breaks all rules of physics and the utterly impossible is possible for him so just go with it" series of absurd feats. Remember when they brought up how superman heard jimmys signal watch alarm from the star vega and he got back to metropolis like 10 minutes later? Yeah they spelled out all the ways thats fundamentally not possible but superman did it anyways so the rules of nature dont apply.

[Mato]

Then why can Cap and a few others always pick it up so trivially? Even in situations that aren't life or death? There's definitely some worthiness aspect to it that isn't just "Be Thor".

There is. But it's not that the hammer has powers, it's just a hunk of rare ore that apparently has contained a storm all this time. Thor can access his powers without it just fine, it's Odin's enchantment that grants the wielder of Mjolnir access to Thor's powers and at peak power Thor could rewrite or even break Odin's enchantment if he wanted to.

Back in the silver age Thor consider it nothing but a weapon and even repaired it after it broke in a steel mill. In the late 80s it became more of he is it's true master, a celestial-created clone of Thor was able to repair it after it broke into four pieces again by channeling it's cloned copy of Thor's power into it while making the remark it'll respond to it's true master's touch. This was repeated again in the 90s when it became cracked and remained so in other wielder's hands until it was returned to Thor and it was instantly repaired. And more recently even Dr Strange was shown to be unable to repair it without Thor's help.

The dependency between Thor and Mjolnir isn't Thor needs the hammer to access his powers, but Mjolnir is imbued with Thor's powers and requires a refill every time it gets sundered.

[Dragonus45]

That was explained back in spring of this year.

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Fury confirmed Thor's greatest fear that Gorr the God-Butcher was right about the gods being selfish and not caring about mortals.

Also the "female Thor" was Jane Foster. It was also revealed that Mjolnir imprisons the God Tempest, a sentient galaxy-sized storm, which also awoke and impersonated Jane-Thor for a bit too.

Edit: I guess I should use a spoiler for this?

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The worst part of that is that it was not the objective absolute truth the comic tried to present it as, and unlike the other stuff he said it wasn't a secret. Gods are *******s, this is a known thing. Easily half of Thors comic run involves gods being jerks even the ones who are nominally on his side. The whole set up was super forced.

[Mato]

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The whole set up was super forced.

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It is better than they handled Lady Thor through. Remember how the promotional deal as it's not a female version of Thor but the real Thor?

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“The inscription on Thor’s hammer reads ‘Whosoever holds this hammer, if HE be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor.’ Well it’s time to update that inscription,” says Marvel editor Wil Moss. “The new Thor continues Marvel’s proud tradition of strong female characters like Captain Marvel, Storm, Black Widow and more. And this new Thor isn’t a temporary female substitute – she’s now the one and only Thor, and she is worthy!”

Series writer Jason Aaron emphasizes, “This is not She-Thor. This is not Lady Thor. This is not Thorita. This is THOR. This is the THOR of the Marvel Universe. But it’s unlike any Thor we’ve ever seen before.”

That became, "Surprise, Lady Thor is just Thor's girlfriend" and apparently she's too weak to use the hammer because it's killing her so she was replaced by a genderless storm impersonating a women.

[McNum]

Well then...

Spoiler: Thor vs. Wonder Woman

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That stings. Also Boomstick's pun was awful, thus amazing. "He's done Thor!"

Can't really argue with this one, they're both stupid fast and strong, but Wonder Woman had the stupider feats so she wins. Comics are fun like that.

Spoiler: Next time...

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Naruto! Versus! Ichigo!

Man, I feel sorry for whatever continent that fight will be on. This is going to be hilariously destructive. Any bets on who wins? Not all that into Bleach.

[Rynjin]

I dropped Bleach after the Fullbringer arc (I stand by that being one of the best arcs after the first one no matter what people say, up until the end completely undoes all the consequences of both that AND the previous arc), but I did finish Naruto.

Naruto is a literal demigod by the end of the series, and has some pretty solid raw power, landscape changing attacks, etc. If nothing else he has Ichigo beat on VERSATILITY if nothing else. Naruto is a really ****ty ninja in regards to that but he still has 4-5 really solid attacks (and more in Bort from what I've seen, he seems to take advantage of his demigod status making chakra nature affinity meaningless for him, but I haven't been keeping up with it) where Ichigo has...one. One single attack.

Ichigo's big finisher also has the downside of being an explosion, and we all know those are meaningless in anime. Naruto's finisher (Rasenshuriken and bigger variations) is a weirdly sophisticated move for being designed and developed by such a dumbass, creating an AoE that is essentially billions of microscopic knives carving into you at the cellular level, so I think he wins on attack effectiveness (if not raw power) as well. On the flipside Ichigo may not HAVE cells, his main combat mode being a ghost, but he does BLEED in that form, so iunno.

Naruto ends up with the better waifu, so he wins the moral victory as well.

More seriously, I dunno how the fight is gonna play out. If it were on the merits of which series is better, I'd give it to Naruto (its lowest lows are about as good as some of Bleach's high notes), but this is about who's better in a fight and Kubo is all about that wish fulfillment bull**** and informed powerups that don't really mean anything, so Ichigo PROBABLY has an edge?

[Forum Explorer]

Two in a row that aren't obvious at least. So if anything else, these ones are interesting.

My money is on Ichigo. I also dropped the series because it was getting too stupid, and I technically made it further into Naruto until dropping that one as well.

Naruto has a lot of different tricks, and they can be quite powerful. Ichigo has one trick, but he's really good at it.

But on the basis that I think Bleach ends up in a much dumber place then Naruto, that Ichigo will have the edge.