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  1. - Top - End - #241
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperPanda View Post
    I have no idea if it is suppose to be progressive or an element of the setting. I've taught ESL enough years to know that not every culture today gets the concept of gendered names. It is more than plausible to me that parents in the future will be just as arbitrary as parents in the present about names so I always read it as her parents wanting to ensure she's was special - this reading is unlikely to be challenged because there is no sign she even remembers them.
    According to the lead actress she's named after her father, possibly as an allusion to the old practice of eldest children inheriting the father's mantle. Out of universe she's named after newspaper columnist Michael Sneed and Bassist Michael Steele. One wonders if there's any deliberate biblical symbolism with both the lead and her future captain being named after archangels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Ultron View Post
    And it's just odd no one mentions Enterprise or Captain Archer and the lots of Klingon encounters they had.
    God no. Archer's encounters with the Klingons were 90 years ago. That's like having everyone quoting Napoleon on the verge of World War One. And that analogy gives far too much credit to Archer. They've had a little scattered contact since then, there's no reason to blink cutely at the camera and tell the audience, hey! Remember that guy from the previous show?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Ultron View Post
    How I might have done it is have space warrior race, ''the Rill'', as allies of the Klingons(and have their space be between the Federation and the Klingon empire). Then you can have your ''wacky departments'' go all ''alien'' when they make the Rill stuff. But when they do Klingon, they stick to the standard.
    Yeah that's my primary issue. Thematically it's a resonant (if not particularly subtle) take on current affairs, but it's hard to wrap my head around how these Klingons fit between Archer and Kirk. With how big Trek is, just having another race seems to avoid all the issues. But that also requires work to get the audience invested in the new species.

  2. - Top - End - #242
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Ultron View Post
    And it's just odd no one mentions Enterprise or Captain Archer and the lots of Klingon encounters they had.
    I dunno, all of Starfleet collectively deciding never to speak of Captain Archer again isn't that surprising to me.

    (The Klingons should have had hair. I didn't particularly mind them deciding fabulousness is in for armour this season, but with big shoulders and no hair they all looked like they had tiny heads).

  3. - Top - End - #243
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Speaking of women named Michael, some folks here may remember Michael Learned from The Waltons.

    I've seen the first episode. Episode two I might watch tonight, or later this week. I'm up in the air about the show so far - this 1 episode (1/2 episode technically?) isn't enough for a full opinion.

  4. - Top - End - #244

    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Legato Endless View Post
    That's like having everyone quoting Napoleon on the verge of World War One.
    I realize you're just trying to score snark points, but that is exactly what we're talking about. Because eveyrone was quoting Napoleon throughout the First World War. And the war largely was a primer on what happens when you try to fight a war with Napoleonic tactics and modern weapons. Why did this happen? For the same reason everyone should be quoting Archer--they have no other real frame of reference.

    The Germans at least read Longstreet's book, and learned from it.

  5. - Top - End - #245

    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Legato Endless View Post
    Remember that guy from the previous show?
    It feels more like the show people are trying to hide the fact that their are other Trek shows and want the audience to think they ''made up'' everything all by themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legato Endless View Post
    Yeah that's my primary issue. Thematically it's a resonant (if not particularly subtle) take on current affairs, but it's hard to wrap my head around how these Klingons fit between Archer and Kirk. With how big Trek is, just having another race seems to avoid all the issues. But that also requires work to get the audience invested in the new species.
    Well, their basic idea is sound...they are just doing it wrong. It should be like this: The Dominant Klingon Types are the ''human'' looking ones and they are the ones that have tossed off all the old ways. T'kuvma and his group would be the ''old fashioned'' rebels that want to go back to the old ways. The Klingon ''new way'' stays in power from Archer's time, through the Original Series Time, and then they fall from power just after that(right before Star Trek: The Movie).

    Quote Originally Posted by Legato Endless View Post
    That's like having everyone quoting Napoleon on the verge of World War One.
    Would it be like anyone quoting Sun Tzu in the 23 century? (Or 21st century?)

    Spoiler: Battle at the Binary Stars
    Show


    *Big Bridge-When Michael gets her first look at the USS Shenzhou's main bridge...it is huge. Like TNG Galaxy class huge!

    *Michael's Plan-Ok, so Mikes plan was to destroy T'Kuvma's ship before the plot even starts. Couple problem here is: Is not crazy attacking a ship an act of war? Sure the Klingon's are in Federation space but the whole ''we saw then and blew them out of the stars'' is not the best diplomatic way to go here. And can the old USS Shenzhou really take on a massive Klingon battlestar?

    *The Light of Kahless?- So each of the 24 house leaders of Klingon were on Qo'noS and ''saw the light'', then immediately jumped into a ship and warppped over to somewhere far away to answer the beacon light that they don't follow and believe in any more?

    *Holo Everyone- So guess everyone has the fancy holo communicators way more advanced then anything seen in The Original Series, Original Movies or any Next Generation era TV show. Though guess the Klingons got discount 'mono color Star War surplus' ones?

    *So 24 ships from 24 houses show up...but there are only like six holo Klingons during the big talk?

    *Send in the fleet?- So like all of Starfleet warps in as a single Klingon ship is sitting there and might have damaged a Starfleet relay? It's not like the Klingons blew up a planet or anything.

    *The Old Fleet?- The Starfleet ships that come in are all ''ENT'' style, but at just ten years before Kirk we should be seeing some Original Series ships here.

    *American Fleet?- They do this a lot, but for a Starfleet made up of ships from lots of worlds, the ones mostly see and hear about are the ones from Earth America or 'safe' mythology. We hear the 'Yegar', 'Clark', 'Edsion', 'Ride', 'Einstein', 'Airheart' and Europa. Also, note all the soft 'science' or 'peace' names. We do, barely see two non-human ships: the Vulcan USS T'Plana-Hath and the Andorian USS Shran.

    *Target Fleet?- So Starfleet warps in, floats over to like within one kilometer of the Klingon fleet and then is like ''ok, lets just sit here and be targets''?

    *Battlestations!- The space battle is very re-imaged movie like and way beyond way more advanced then anything seen in The Original Series, Original Movies or the Next Generation era TV shows, until the later DS9 and Voyager ones and the last couple movies.

    *Super Shields- The 'old' USS Shenzhou has the fancy shields that cover hull breaches? Like nothing the newer Constitutions class USS enterprise has?

    *Bad Medicine- Helmsman RedShirt gets wounded by a typical 40,000 volt Starfleet non-OSHA compliant console. Then the Captain is like ''you can make it to sick bay right?"

    *Big Brig- The Brig of the USS Shenzhou way more advanced then anything seen in The Original Series, Original Movies or any Next Generation era TV show.

    *Super Mind Meld?- What? Ok, it is a special mind meld, or something, but still instantaneous real time communication over light years of distance? And if Sarek did this when she was a little girl, wonder why he has not used it in the years sense then? Michael was in Starfleet for seven years and never needed a 'peep talk?' or was the USS Shenzhou just mapping gaseous anomalies for seven years?

    *Don't Need Too- So the peaceful live and let live Klingons don't ''need to'' finish off the USS Shenzhou. What? Did this writer never watch Star Trek before? (Klingon sensor guy-"Captain! they are drifting into the scary rocky field of rocks! We must turn back!" Klingon captain smiles and kills Klingon sensor guy-"Full power! I will not be denied my kill! Fire all weapons and destroy that ship!"

    *Tractor is sexy- The USS Eroupa('Luna class') has a beautiful tractor beam way more advanced then anything seen in The Original Series, Original Movies or any Next Generation era TV show. Though it is just like a Vulcan one from ENT.

    *Starfleet Flagship?- Admiral Anderson shows up on a dinky little science vessel? Ok, so guess this might be part of the plot of ''Starfleet has gotten soft and weak'', still, you'd think the Supreme Admiral(or should that be Commodore, wink, wink) would show up in one of the fancy, new Constitution Class Starships that are in service like maybe the USS Excalibur(or the USS Constitution herself).

    Insignia- Well, oddly, all of Starfleet uses the Enterprise Insignia back in 2255. When in 2265 it was normal for each ship, starbase and outpost to have their own Insignia. Starfleet did not, oddly, adopt the Enterprise Insignia until after Kirk's five year mission.

    *Cloaking Conundrum-The Klingons did not get cloaking technology until they made an alliance with the Romulans in like 2266. Yet here in 2255 they have it? And it looks like the Romulan cloak from Star Trek Nemesis? And Kahless invented it in the 9th century, what?

    *Take that!-Granted we only see Admiral Anderson for like a minute, but he sure seems all ''let us all just talk and make peace'' like wimp. He does not seem like the self destruct type. He is more of the type that even as the ship blows up around him he will cry ''peace and surrender to our enemies is the only way-" boom, he dies. Or was it the Number One of the USS Europa that was like ''Dirty Klingon space trash! Set auto destruct for five seconds! If we are going down we are taking these Klingon B'taha with us!"

    *Klingon School-Wow, T'Kuvma sure speaks some good ''Federation Standard English''

    *Let them Live?-Ok, well, this is pure plot contrivance of the worst kind as the writer wants to have all the good guys defeated, but not killed(you know so their can be a show). But with Klingons? Klingons are the ones that kill civilians , medical personal and wounded warriors in their beds....

    *Big Broadcast- Is there some reason the baddy damaged USS Shenzhou routes the audio of T'Kuvma's speech all over the ship and specifically to what is left of the brig? And why is this broadcast the old view-screen way? Why does not T'Kuvma holo project?

    *Super Computer- The USS Shenzhou main computer is a super advanced AI, way more advanced then anything seen in The Original Series, Original Movies or any Next Generation era TV show, until we get to The Doctor of Voyager.

    *Crazy Captain- Um, I think most other Starfleet captains would just accept they lost the fight and would live to fight another day. But not Captain Philippa Georgiou, she is all like ''let us keep fighting!'' as she is some sort of big Sun Zu fan. And it is unlikely her plan would obliterate the much larger and not as baddy damaged Klingon Flagship..and then they would just obliterate the USS Shenzhou.

    *Auto Pilot- So, why don't worker bees have auto pilots? Seems very basic.

    *Tractor Beams- Hum, so the Klingon's have the ENT vulcan tractor beams too? And why is the tractor beam emitter to collect the dead in the skinny neck of the Y-Wing Klingon Flagship?

    *Big Job- T'Kuvma will take care of ''all the dead''? Even if there are only like 50, that is a lot. Like several days of work?

    *Super Sensors-So the USS Shenzhou finds the body of a bead Klingon Officer floating in space...but how? Does the sensor ''read'' his rank badge or something? How can they tell an officer from a crewman from anything?

    *No Sensors-So the Klingon's don't detect the transporter use or the photon torpedo case? When the Klingon's are actively scanning the area to find their dead?

    *Size does Matter-Um, a photon torpedo case is like the size of a pot pie? Seems kind small for a tactical ship to ship weapon.

    *Away Team-Ok, well, this is pure plot contrivance of the worst kind, again, and it is Star Trek.....BUT....really, sending over the Captain and First Officer to fight and capture a bad guy? Does the USS Shenzhou not have any security personnel? (or some MAKOs?) And even if you 'must' send the captain and #1, why not send more of a team?

    *Klingon Expert-As soon as they beam aboard the Klingon ship Commander Burnham is like ''ah, we are on the aft section of the bridge." Because she studied the ships schematics or something?

    *Shoot to Stun-Ok, well, this is pure plot contrivance of the worst kind, again, and it is Star Trek.....BUT....really are the Starfleet Assault Kidnapping Away Team shooting to stun? Like ten seconds ago they blew up the ship and likely killed a couple Klingons....but now it is like ''just stun them''?

    *Super Sensors back again-So, suddenly the USS Shenzhou can detect the active life signs of an away team member, way more advanced then anything seen in The Original Series, Original Movies or any Next Generation era TV show.

    *Communicator where?-The second the captain does Herd Alien Guy is like ''the captain is dead, I'm beaming you back!'' to what communications device? We don't see Commander Burnham with one of the little 'flip phone' ones (you know like you see in the Opening Credits).

    *Abandon Ship-Er, when they abandon the USS Shenzhou is it in like 20 shuttles? They sure don't look like 'escape pods'.

    *Evil courtroom-Um, what is with the 1984 ish horrible night mare courtroom? Is this some secret court marshal on a black site?

    *What Charges?- So, guess Captain Philippa Georgiou had time to officially file the charges against Commander Burnham and send them to the Starfleet JAG office? Or did one of the desperate escaping people from the battle grab that bit of data? Sure, I guess Farm Guy could have done it-"Forget the emergency supplies, I'm making sure I get the dirt on Mike!"

    Final- C, Well, it is a lot more action packed...and that is good. And it is just the 'pilot', so they are still setting things up....we are not even on the USS Discovery yet...

    Last edited by Darth Ultron; 2017-10-01 at 05:02 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #246
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Evidently Darth Ultron thinks a big improvement to this show would be if all of the technology looked worse than something made in the 60's on a shoestring budget.

    The Klingons did not get cloaking technology until they made an alliance with the Romulans in like 2266. Yet here in 2255 they have it?
    That's a popular fan theory, but there is no canonical evidence whatsoever to back that up.

    So, guess Captain Philippa Georgiou had time to officially file the charges against Commander Burnham and send them to the Starfleet JAG office? Or did one of the desperate escaping people from the battle grab that bit of data?
    Or maybe Michael turned herself in.

  7. - Top - End - #247

    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by JadedDM View Post
    Evidently Darth Ultron thinks a big improvement to this show would be if all of the technology looked worse than something made in the 60's on a shoestring budget.
    Yes, it would be a huge improvement if they made everything LOOK like Classic Trek 23rd century technology, and then did the enhancements WITHIN that.

    Quote Originally Posted by JadedDM View Post
    That's a popular fan theory, but there is no canonical evidence whatsoever to back that up.
    This is listed on Star Trek.com....

    Quote Originally Posted by JadedDM View Post
    Or maybe Michael turned herself in.
    Maybe?

  8. - Top - End - #248
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Episode 3 starts the series proper. It's interesting, different from previous Star Trek series. I'm liking it though.

  9. - Top - End - #249
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by JadedDM View Post
    Evidently Darth Ultron thinks a big improvement to this show would be if all of the technology looked worse than something made in the 60's on a shoestring budget.

    100% this yes. Its like playing a batman prequel where you have more advanced stuff then he had in the game before. Its off putting and hurts immersion.
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  10. - Top - End - #250
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    I liked Cadet Roommate McWhatshername. She's like a more peppy, female Barclay.
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    No, it would be considerably more off-putting if the technology on a ship from 2256 was inferior to what exists in the real world in 2017. Like computers that require giant 8-track sized tapes and big honkin' vacuum tubes on them. I think people are just being way too nitpicky.

    Spoiler: S1E3 - Context is for Kings
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    Did anyone else get the feeling that Discovery is, in fact, a Section 31 ship?

  12. - Top - End - #252
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Spoiler: Thoughts - tried to be spoiler light but not sure I succeeded
    Show
    Caught episode 3 - still has things I liked and things I wasn't so sure of.

    In the premier movie (episodes 1 and 2) Michael is shown as not believing in the principles of the Federation - or rather more than willing to throw them away to save her family (her captain mostly). In the real pilot (Episode 3) she's still really strongly blaming herself for what happened and trying to live by those ideals through serving time. The new Captain on the other hand plays fast and loose with the Federations ideals - I think that means one of the central conflict of this series is going to be how well the Federation's ideals hold up when tested and how important they are.

    Michael's name gets explicitly called out as odd in this episode.

    The tone is very different from Star Trek of old here - they are shooting hard for a Section 31 vibe.

    The discovery feels less ugly than when the first concept art was released but it is still far from my favorite design.

    A lot more people play up Michael in this episode, but she's also pretty clearly hated by almost everyone too - its summed up by the quote "You were an excellent officer. Until you weren't." Her actions in this episode still had some elements which would annoy people considering her drive to atone through punishment - though they make more sense in context.

    I think the best part of the dynamic for me was that throughout episode 3 Michael does not want to be serving in Star Fleet (she feels she doesn't deserve it) and its the Captain that wants a fellow war-monger to help him push past starfleet's ideals - and she still resists because she has learned from her screw ups.

    Also she is not the XO of Discovery, and cannot become one. She still thinks of herself as the XO of the Shen Zhou (and as a failure).

    I was engaged with and enjoyed episode 3. It did not have the feeling I wanted from a Star Trek show (far too morally-dark so far) but it had the seeds of a good plot which would bring it back to the light in an enjoyable way.

    Also it did have one moment which actually made me laugh quite a lot:
    Spoiler: Trying to keep it as spoiler free as possible, but still a spoiler
    Show
    Conext for those who can't watch and still reading: She's put to work as a data-cruncher against her protests after her prison shuttle is picked up by Discovery. Whatever shady project they are working on takes down Disovery's sister ship. The captain wants Michael on the away team to recover data and equipment from the sister ship but the engineer/researcher protests. Saru (Shen Zhou science officer and Discovery XO) who had previously told Michael he thought she was dangerous - has a change of heart and says that Michael was the smartest officer he'd known - he appears saying so to give Michael a second chance.

    My laugh is from the Captain's response, "You see? And he knows you."

    It was one of precious few moments of levity in the episode and it worked well. Cadet Barclay - well part Barclay and part Sheldon - worked as well because she felt completely real. I'm hoping that future episode can lighten up a bit.


    I am still feeling that Discovery is way too serious and Orville can't take itself serious enough. I miss the days of shows like SG-1 which knew they were silly and loved themselves for it without loosing themselves to the joke. (Its why I fell in love with Doctor who).

    Orville episode 4 seemed to be stepping in the right direction there (Issac's insistence that a certain utterance is a compliment and Bortas's mate's computer prescribed Rocky Road were pitch perfect) but it also bogs itself down with unnecessary humor and pop-culture.

    Discovery episode 3 is presenting interesting and complex characters. It seems to want to make a deep and topical exploration of what it means to have "good guy" ideals in a time of war and conflict - but so far that is all setup with very little answer. My biggest gripe about how they are trying to out DS9 on that front is that they do not yet have anyone in the cast who is a died in the wool true believer in the Federation's ideals. Michelle Yeoh's character was that and its was her contrast against Michael Burnnam which made that work for me. Now, 6 months of self hate later and Michael Burnnam is suppose to be that light for us? On the one hand, I don't buy it yet - the character hasn't earned it yet. On the other hand, that's a very good motivation and it has a good thematic base from which to tell a good story.

    DS9 had Sisko, who really did feel the conflict between what was right and what was needed. Discovery so far has Captain Lorka, who can only see what is needed, and Michael Burnnam, who knows from experience what is wrong.


    Edit:

    Revising my overall series reviews:

    Orville is for fans of Voyager and TNG who want more of the same - with all the flaws of the original - but all the presense of Shakespearean actors trying to be taken seriously removed. There was a wonderful allusion to Literature in episode 4 and they made a point of pasting jokes onto it so that no one worries that they are watching anything too high-brow. Its plenty of fun when it lets itself be, but it is Voyager more than anything else.

    Discovery is Enterprise meets DS9. It feels like they are trying to tell the story of how the Federation grew into its TNG ideals while still having Section 31 lurking in the background.

    For Dath Ultron - if the tech in episodes 1 and 2 broke your immersion, episode 3 is not going to help at all - there were times when it felt like it should be post Voyager and others where it felt like it could be Enterprise.

    For me this doesn't bug me because TOS > TMP has the Enterprise NCC 1701 as expicitly the same ship even though it is clearly the 1701-A model. That's more than a simple refit, that is a massive overhaul. TNG introduced the Cardassians, then later updated their look while pretending it had always been like that.

    I mentally place Discovery in Timeline Charlie (Alpha is prime, Beta is JJ-Trek, Charlie is its own thing, Delta is Star Trek Online, Zeta is Mirror universe). Official or not, I just file them this way and it lets me enjoy them.
    Last edited by SuperPanda; 2017-10-02 at 01:06 AM.

  13. - Top - End - #253
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    On the subject of Archer: I think the time travelers from the temporal cold war showed him he had some sort of destiny in creating the Federation, so he no doubt will be brought up at some point. Not as often as that one rowdy cadet at the academy called Kirk, because you reference what (you think) is popular, but I'm sure they'll namedrop him in the fourth season at the latest, assuming they do get that far. I'm just not sure his handful of run-ins with the Klingons when he was still a lowly captain are the important thing about his legacy.
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Lvl 2 Expert View Post
    On the subject of Archer: I think the time travelers from the temporal cold war showed him he had some sort of destiny in creating the Federation, so he no doubt will be brought up at some point. Not as often as that one rowdy cadet at the academy called Kirk, because you reference what (you think) is popular, but I'm sure they'll namedrop him in the fourth season at the latest, assuming they do get that far. I'm just not sure his handful of run-ins with the Klingons when he was still a lowly captain are the important thing about his legacy.
    Archer was the nexus of the founding of the Federation. Since he had had friendly (or at least respected adversary) encounters with the Vulcans, Andorians, and Tellarites he wound up being in a position to convince them the Romulans were setting them all up to fight each other, and the leaders involved there basically said "well, I don't like these other guys, but I'll work with *you* while we figure out what's going on." This later led to the negotiations and discussions which formed the Federation. This is also related to why Humans are at the center of the Federation. For the formation they were the diplomatic glue that allowed the other races to get past their bad blood with each other.

    I actually really liked the last season of enterprise. It felt like what they had been wanting to do before getting bogged down in the Temporal Cold War and Xindi space.

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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    You know I feel like this is 12 steps back in terms of Star Trek Complexity.

    In a way TOS, whilst primalistic in ways is one I seriously enjoyed more because of its lack of fear of being goofy led to more creative stories.
    But In terms of complexity, I feel like this is 12 steps back. Its pretty simple what the producers and developers are doing, and it just sucks. Its not subtle, its not smart, it doesn't prove anything, its not clever, its not advancing anything.

    It feels childish and petty. I can't go into specifics because RL Politics, but in terms of themes I just find it bad.
    Instead of advancing in the complexity, it feels worse then bad episodes TNG at times.

    I always apreciate shows that try to really be above and smarter, but understanding people has been replaced with gloating on twitter in our enlightened time of technology
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by JadedDM View Post
    No, it would be considerably more off-putting if the technology on a ship from 2256 was inferior to what exists in the real world in 2017. Like computers that require giant 8-track sized tapes and big honkin' vacuum tubes on them. I think people are just being way too nitpicky.

    Spoiler: S1E3 - Context is for Kings
    Show
    Did anyone else get the feeling that Discovery is, in fact, a Section 31 ship?
    Spoiler: Context is for Kings
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    Well, the ship's number is NCC-1031. Could be a clue. Could be a Halloween celebration.

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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperPanda View Post
    I mentally place Discovery in Timeline Charlie (Alpha is prime, Beta is JJ-Trek, Charlie is its own thing, Delta is Star Trek Online, Zeta is Mirror universe). Official or not, I just file them this way and it lets me enjoy them.
    I don't know, I'm thinking that this in what you'd call the "Beta" timeline - that is, leading up to the JJ-Trek at some point in the future. I could be wrong, as we go into the series further, but it certainly feels like it's part of that timeline.

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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    I dunno, didn't some writer say in an interview that this was original timeline?

    As for Context is for Kings
    Spoiler
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    I'm not a fan of this Captain. For "whatever it takes to win the war" he doesn't seem like the right choice, and he doesn't inspire any confidence like a regular Starfleet Captain would by lurking in a darkened ready room shooting cryptic lines. If we were going to get dramatic Captain Vampire, I'd rather he not be shown until be a dramatic reveal, which would also let us get more of a view of Saru in command.
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by McNum View Post
    Spoiler: Context is for Kings
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    Well, the ship's number is NCC-1031. Could be a clue. Could be a Halloween celebration.
    Oh, snap. I didn't even notice that. Nice catch.

  20. - Top - End - #260
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Spoiler: About episode 3 as well
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    This episode leaves me with two main questions:

    1 If this ship has essentially transwarp drives and transporters pre-TOS, what happened to that? If they never used anything ever again, despite its obvious advantages, there is either going to be some sort of universe-ending-bad kind of consequence, or the whole project is going to end up in a space explosion so big nobody left has the faintest clue what they were working on.

    EDIT: 1a If the whole project is going to fail or disappear that spectacularly within an already sort of planned storyline, and the season ending that storyline is pretty much bound to be the best and the most watched one, how will the ship discovery survive to the season after? Are we breaking new Star Trek grounds? Or are they going to do the movie thing and just get a new ship with an old name?

    2 I get that this captain is some sort of pokémon master with a private zoo, and I get that he collects dangerous creatures, but a tribble? Fly, you fools!

    And yeah, I suspect you're right, that ship number convinced me. they're either section or some sort of progenitor.

    Now I'm going to have to deal with a dark and edgy Star Trek series with black and gray morality. Not sure how that makes me feel. It's one of those things that can turn out great if they're done well, but they have to be done well.
    Last edited by Lvl 2 Expert; 2017-10-02 at 03:19 PM.
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  21. - Top - End - #261
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Spoiler: Possible Spoilers
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    I wasn't really hooked with episode 1 or 2, number 3 hooked me. I liked where the character is, I liked the mystery, and I think this feels like a very Star Trek episode. The difference is that normally we get the Enterprise or whatever, arriving to the science ship after whatever experiment has blown up in their face. Now we get to see it from the Science ship doing the work that is going to blow up in their face.

    I'm hoping the captain is not the villain. What I've liked so far with Discovery is that there isn't anyone making those really stupid decisions that make me want to throw something at the screen. It's not divided into the smart protagonist and the stupid everyone else.

    I'm also glad that they recognize that a war effort is more then just weapons that make bigger booms. They're working on logistics. (Well, they say they are at least.)

    I also love when the Klingon went 'shhh' to the Cadet and the Security Chief goes "Did he just shush you?"
    Last edited by Megaduck; 2017-10-02 at 02:48 PM.

  22. - Top - End - #262

    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Well, 1 and 2 were ok....but 3, well, it sure was a lot more interesting.

    Humm...Cadet Sylvia Tilly sure is a lot of fun! Like Wesley Crusher, Ensign Kim, Kes, and a Tribble all cranked up to 11. (I'd love to see Captain Sylvia Tilly of the USS Sneezey someday)

    It's a quick shot, but the bit where the USS Discovery brings the prison shuttle into the main shuttle bay is really nice. (even more so as a Trek fan when Every Single other TV Trek show has always avoided showing the main shuttle bay all that much. )

    Lieutenant Paul Stamets is he’s an ‘astromycologist’ – a specialist in space fungus?

    We do see a Classics Trek communicator here (but it has a cool little video screen)...see this is how they should have done all the tech.

    Spoiler: Context is for Kings
    Show


    So Captain Gabriel Lorca has a Tribble, a Cardassian Vole, and a Gorn skeleton....

    Things That don't Make Sense

    *The Prison Shuttle sure is nice and roomy.

    *So why does Michael get a nice gold Kirk/Command prison outfit?

    *So does the poor red shirt prison shuttle pilot die?

    * Michael Burnham is Starfleets ONLY mutineer? Ever? After like 100 years?

    *So the USS Discovery is brand new? But, of course, does not look like a Classic Trek ship. And, oddly had that Constitution Enterprise mixed with a D type Klingon Battle Cruiser.

    *Why, oh, why, does the USS Discovery have gaps in the saucer section?



    *Why, oh, why oh, why do the just let the convicted criminals, at least one of whom is a murderer, just eat in the main dinning room?

    *Oh, but, sure, after the the convicted criminals, predictably get into a fight...then it is like ''throw them in the brig''. (Or was this all a set up by the captain?)

    *so it will take three days to clean the prison shuttle? But the poor (dead?) pilot was going to do it, by herself(for three days?)

    *Wow...The USS Discovery has HUGE crew quarters.

    *A Beatles cover band? In 2255?

    *A breathalyzer door lock?

    *Er, would Cadet Sylvia Tilly even have access to the Secret Garden?

    *So the Away Team takes a Warp Shuttle(?) to the USS Gleen? How far away was it from the USS Discovery?

    *The ''01'' Warp Shuttle sure is roomy (like more room then a Runabout)

    *Just ten years before 2266, and they have really, really, really small handheld tricorders?

    *But yet they have all most Classic Trek handheld phasers?

    *So what is the monster? A Zarg? A Rathtar?

    *This happens in Trek all the time....but...they have awesome disintegration weapons, yet they waste lots of time not cutting through a door...

    *Wonder who signed the 2251 Geneva Convention?

    *A site to site transport? Even in the 24th century this was still a risk and not done very often except in emergencies. Yet Captain Lorca just casually does so....or are they just showing he is crazy and reckless?

    *The Beta Quadrant is only 90 light years away? So then the USS Gleen sure was at the edge of the Alpha Quadrant? Guess she really was on the ''front lines''.

    *Captain Lorca shows a spore teleport of....Romulus? Yet like just ten years later Kirk and crew are clueless about the ''unknown Romulan aliens''?

    *Did you check out the War Map on the USS Discovery? It had a mix of Classic Trek places like Deep Space K-7 and Sherman's Planet, mixed with Ba'Ku from Star Trek Insurrection, Archer's Planet(NX-1 Enetrprise's Captain Archer) and even Khitomer.

    Final -B, really not bad for the first show. It was not quite a smooth as it could have been, but it was still good.

    Last edited by Darth Ultron; 2017-10-03 at 08:13 PM.

  23. - Top - End - #263
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Originally Posted by Lvl 2 Expert
    Now I'm going to have to deal with a dark and edgy Star Trek series with black and gray morality. Not sure how that makes me feel.
    If this is the direction the series is going, it’s just as well I didn’t watch past the first hour, or I’d start to feel betrayed.

    The name of the series is Discovery, and that’s what I want it to be about—discovery, seeking out the unknown and braving the uncharted currents of space. I want it to be about discovering new worlds and new lifeforms, about the rigors and isolation of deep exploration, about heroism and endurance on the last and greatest frontier.

    Or at least, that’s what I would expect from a name like that. Just as well....

    Originally Posted by Darth Ultron
    Lieutenant Paul Stamets is he’s an ‘astromycologist’ – a specialist in space fungus?
    I think I've heard about this character before, who’s evidently an homage to a well-known mushroom cultivator.

    “Astromycologist” would mean a researcher of interstellar fungus, but that’s a strange compound term to use, unless he's actually studying fungus that somehow grows in empty space. “Exomycologist” would be more in line with real-world terminology, since “exoplanets” are any planets outside our own solar system.

    But of course no one says “exoplanets” in Star Trek; that would be strangely Earth-centric, creating an artificial distinction between the planets of one star system and all the other planets in the galaxy. In Starfleet, they just say planets—and by the same token, they should just say mycologist, being someone who studies fungi wherever they occur.

    .
    Last edited by Palanan; 2017-10-03 at 09:36 PM.

  24. - Top - End - #264
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Re Palanan:

    The following does contain some plot spoilers, they are vague but could ruin a couple of the surprises for people planning to watch - but it directly addresses your questions and you don't seem to plan to watch. I've tried to keep it spoiler light.

    Spoiler
    Show
    By those uses astromycologist is exactly what the episode intends. The character researches a type of spore-based creature that is able to exist in space as well as on a largely diverse set of planets. I'd almost joke that Star Fleet had discovered midochlorians, but it seems more likely that these are Iconian bio-tech given the way the effects seem to happen.

    For the darker-tone... I'm not sold on it myself either but it isn't really new to Trek. This episode set up similar to the TNG episode with the Pegasus researching phase-cloak technology. The Discovery and the Glenn are researching what Dark Matter called a Blink Drive (which is why I think there is an Iconian link). The Glenn was pushing the limits of safety well beyond what they should have and suffered, basically a ship-wide transporter accident (similar to what happened to the Pegasus but with a cinematic special effects budget). It also picked up a stray of some-sort, somehow...

    So take the Pegasus, add in pieces of Event Horizon and Alien and you have the second half of the episode.

    The first half is all about how Michael gets onto the Discovery, is hated by everyone, and is being recruited by Captain Lorka - who might very well be Section 31.

    None of these pieces are new to Trek on their own - we are just not used to seeing them from this perspective. We are used to the hero ship swooping in to save the stricken science ship and then chewing out the arrogant admirals who sanctioned such obviously dangerous research. This time we're flying with the research ship and a Captain who personally pushed for obviously dangerous research - and the "Hero Ship" doesn't come into her own for another 10 years.

    This episode was heavy on the dark for my tastes, but it still has hints of the light that I'm hoping comes back and wins in the end - keeping it firmly Trek in completion.

    A scene early on with the new Captain which I think might have been a nod to the Audience was when Michael meets him, his ready room is dark because he's been staring out into the stars. It very slowly lights back up. "A recent battle injury, I have to suffer changes of light slowly" - that could be a hint to the Audience that things will start off very bleak, but there will be light at the end. (I'm still very hopeful if you can't tell).

    My wife watched it too now (She's not a Trek fan - yet - ). She's bugged by everyone hating on Michael. She recognizes that Michael screwed up, and fully gets Michael hating on herself. It was really bugging her that everyone in Star Fleet blamed her for the war because none of her actions really caused the war (Killing T'Kuvma was more of an understandable screw-up after other screw-ups failing to stop a war). She got why Michael's former crew had problems with her - but everyone else in Star Fleet hating her felt over the top.

    The spooky elements worked well for her.

    She has made me promise not to watch the next one without her as this is now a show we watch together (Until we move and don't have access to it anymore).

  25. - Top - End - #265
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperPanda View Post
    Re Palanan:

    The following does contain some plot spoilers, they are vague but could ruin a couple of the surprises for people planning to watch - but it directly addresses your questions and you don't seem to plan to watch. I've tried to keep it spoiler light.

    Spoiler
    Show
    By those uses astromycologist is exactly what the episode intends. The character researches a type of spore-based creature that is able to exist in space as well as on a largely diverse set of planets. I'd almost joke that Star Fleet had discovered midochlorians, but it seems more likely that these are Iconian bio-tech given the way the effects seem to happen.

    For the darker-tone... I'm not sold on it myself either but it isn't really new to Trek. This episode set up similar to the TNG episode with the Pegasus researching phase-cloak technology. The Discovery and the Glenn are researching what Dark Matter called a Blink Drive (which is why I think there is an Iconian link). The Glenn was pushing the limits of safety well beyond what they should have and suffered, basically a ship-wide transporter accident (similar to what happened to the Pegasus but with a cinematic special effects budget). It also picked up a stray of some-sort, somehow...

    So take the Pegasus, add in pieces of Event Horizon and Alien and you have the second half of the episode.

    The first half is all about how Michael gets onto the Discovery, is hated by everyone, and is being recruited by Captain Lorka - who might very well be Section 31.

    None of these pieces are new to Trek on their own - we are just not used to seeing them from this perspective. We are used to the hero ship swooping in to save the stricken science ship and then chewing out the arrogant admirals who sanctioned such obviously dangerous research. This time we're flying with the research ship and a Captain who personally pushed for obviously dangerous research - and the "Hero Ship" doesn't come into her own for another 10 years.

    This episode was heavy on the dark for my tastes, but it still has hints of the light that I'm hoping comes back and wins in the end - keeping it firmly Trek in completion.

    A scene early on with the new Captain which I think might have been a nod to the Audience was when Michael meets him, his ready room is dark because he's been staring out into the stars. It very slowly lights back up. "A recent battle injury, I have to suffer changes of light slowly" - that could be a hint to the Audience that things will start off very bleak, but there will be light at the end. (I'm still very hopeful if you can't tell).

    My wife watched it too now (She's not a Trek fan - yet - ). She's bugged by everyone hating on Michael. She recognizes that Michael screwed up, and fully gets Michael hating on herself. It was really bugging her that everyone in Star Fleet blamed her for the war because none of her actions really caused the war (Killing T'Kuvma was more of an understandable screw-up after other screw-ups failing to stop a war). She got why Michael's former crew had problems with her - but everyone else in Star Fleet hating her felt over the top.

    The spooky elements worked well for her.

    She has made me promise not to watch the next one without her as this is now a show we watch together (Until we move and don't have access to it anymore).
    They're hating on her because she staged a mutiny and tried her best to start the war by firing first. If she had actually succeeded in firing first the Klingons would have been united in declaring war the next day and there would have been huge pressure and condemnation within the Federation for starting a war.

    They had a chance to avert a war ONLY because her mutiny failed and she was tossed in the brig. Then of course they ended up killing him and the Klingons started the war anyway.

    ALL HAIL THE GREAT RAK!!

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  26. - Top - End - #266
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    My interpretation is that the Federation brass have scapegoated Michael somewhat. They were blindsided by the Klingons in a way they probably shouldn't have, and pointing at the mutineer lets them deflect criticism. "Our policies and methods aren't wrong, it was this officer acting outside of them."

    While yes, her shoot-first strategy was likely not going to succeed, she did come up with the second capture-the-leader tactic that might've worked if she actually went through with it. Regardless, a lot is on her and rightly so.

  27. - Top - End - #267
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    I get what they are going for - I was just pointing out that my wife is bugged by it. For there to be that wide spread hatred requires her story to be very well known which pretty much require a certain amount of organized drmonizing of her - which only makes sense if they are scapegoating her or trying to "make and example" of her - only the former fits starfleet.

    I felt it was a bit heavy handed but it didn't really bug me. In tread we've discussed how others wanted the show to be heavy handed on her so I personally think they found the middle ground they needed. People not to invested in the setting get why people are angry at her but feel the scope is out of proportion. People invested in the setting are more likely to be okay with the scope and want to see her actions have consequences (which they do) - also don't want those acts magically forgiven. This episode walked that tight-rope and I think balanced it well.

  28. - Top - End - #268

    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Well, it does make sense that if in 100 years or so of Starfleet she is the one and only mutineer ever. That sort of thing would make headlines. And it really does bother the ''semi-military'' Starfleet people that she not only ''did not follow orders'', but she went full blown ''munity''. And even if Command did not frame her, you'd still have the odd story of ''she was there, munity, and war started''. A LOT of people would connect the dots and say ''maybe if she had not staged a munity, then the Federation might not be at War''. A bit unfair, but that is the way people think.

    Spoiler: show stuff
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    I do kind of like the idea that the War is going badly for the Federation (like they did on DS9). It might make a good set up of for ''dystopia'': have the Federation ''fall'' a bit from ''super advanced'' 2017 awesome looking tech back to 1960's ''super unadvanced'' bad looking tech.

    And maybe, just maybe the ''super teleporting space fungus'' has something to do with it. Like:

    The Discovery causes some sort of disaster, ''a subspace fungus shockwave'' or such, that changes space/time for the Galaxy, so that everyone has to redesign all their tech...and make it look like the 1960's tech.

    And this can fit into the Timeline nicely as nobody knows it has happened. But on ''June 1st'', suddenly things like Warp Drive either don't work or work much less efficiently. So everything has to be redesigned.

    Though it is also possible the ''high ups'' know it happened too, but no common folk do.

    Also, maybe the fungus will turn out to be intelligent...and open that can of mushrooms :).

    Also, maybe we will get a super powerful alien race to come in and fix things. Not the Q, but maybe any of the other Original Series ones....maybe the Organians?



  29. - Top - End - #269
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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Olinser View Post
    They're hating on her because she staged a mutiny and tried her best to start the war by firing first. If she had actually succeeded in firing first the Klingons would have been united in declaring war the next day and there would have been huge pressure and condemnation within the Federation for starting a war.
    If they had fired first, T’Kuvma wouldn’t have been able to unite the houses based on the Federation’s insidious promise “we come in peace”. There’d still be a fight, but it would be a border skirmish with a minor Klingon faction not a war.

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    Default Re: Star Trek Discovery, finally a trailer

    Also, we don't know if the general population is as well informed as the members of a Starfleet crew.
    "Like the old proverb says, if one sees something not right, one must draw out his sword to intervene"

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