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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122

    Quote Originally Posted by Fafnir13 View Post
    but anyone reading in a vacuum would probably be hard pressed to come up with it before this little confrontation.
    But if you're in a vaccuum you wouldn't be under pressure.
    Just kidding. I agree with your point that with Charlie allied to Jetstone, Parson has one last turn to come up with a 'hail mary' play.

    Maybe we'll see a Stan/Ansom "Duel of the Tools"?
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  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122

    First of all... two erfs that quickly!!! Awesome!!

    Second... I'm guessing Wanda is talking about Jillian.

  3. - Top - End - #93
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    Default Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122

    "It's less than what you took from me"

    Go to the cast page. Notice Wanda's tribe statistic: "Human - the lost Croatan tribe". Emphasis mine.

    Perhaps Ansom destroyed her tribe? And then she willingly joined Stanley because she knew he and Ansom were/would become enemies? Her comment would make sense that way, as would her loyalty sans spells, as commented on by Jillian and Jaclyn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whispri View Post
    Yes, he could easily fit her on that carpet, it's supported two people in the past. Then he could fly her back to his camp, before returning to the Walls. Rather than crying out for a Rod of Resurrection so he could murder her several times. She's incapacitated, it wouldn't have been hard.
    Why should he do that? They are at war, and besides, she just turned his men (including a friend/confidante) into a zombie.

    A lot of people seem to be aggravated at Ansom for wanting to take Gobwin Knob, but seriously, why is that? Despite Stanley having attacked people left right and center, apparently. Taking GK would make sense, since there was no certainty that Jillian's mission to croak Stanley would succeed.
    Last edited by The Minx; 2009-01-02 at 09:18 AM.
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  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Default Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd_Paladin View Post
    I must confess puzzlement at how people can so loathe Ansom while at the same time expressing fondness for a characters like Wanda, whose hobbies (that we've seen) include murder, torture, rape, and various psychic tricks that have no technical definition but can pretty firmly be filed under the list of "Worst things you can do to another person" (to say nothing of all the zombie-making). What's Ansom's big crime? Bad attitude? Being pompous? Strange set of standards, that's for sure.
    Even though this point wasn't directed at me or my earlier post, I want to use it as a springboard to better explain my position.

    My problem with the past two comics, and with most of the run up until this point, is not based on my dislike for Ansom. True, I am not rooting for him, but I don't hate him. Like many readers here, I am able to be fond of the villain -- I am a big fan of Xykon from OOTs, and I am sure there are many people here who are, even though he is unequivocally evil-with-a-capital-"E" and has committed many heinous acts. Still, he is a character, and a well-developed one, so I appreciate him and his actions.

    Ansom is an entirely different story. We have no insight into what he's all about, no exposition on why he's at war with Stanley. For every ounce of competence he's demonstrated he's shown himself ten times the fool. Yet he emerges each time victorious. Now, in these past two strips, he's acting in essentially god mode: falling from his mount, sustaining no real damage, reviewing a contract, calling in the tac-nuke archons to save his butt, remounting, flying into the courtyard, seizing the 'pliers, engaging in dialogue, then flying away, all while being surrounded by a horde of undead. I'm sorry, but I call foul.

    So my displeasure is not with Ansom. If Ansom had shown himself a capable leader, as smart as Parson or as skilled a warrior as Jillian, or had even trumped Parson once during this entire arc through sheer strategy alone, I wouldn't mind as much that he's flouting the rules and dragging out the narrative again. But since that's not the case, I'm just getting bored and frustrated.
    Last edited by Tweed; 2009-01-02 at 09:19 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #95
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    Default Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122

    Quote Originally Posted by Simanos View Post
    Like I said in strip 134 thread... Lame.
    I'm losing interest fast. The Archons shouldn't have been able to hit Wanda (she was too low already), she shouldn't have (nearly) died from such a small fall (Ansom fell from higher and after being hit hard), Ansom shouldn't have been able to get out of the enemy surrounding him so fast and easily and he shouldn't have been able to take an item from a zone he can't enter, the defenders should have been there faster, etc...
    I completely agree with this. That author is playing very fast and loose with rules here. Airspace can't attack Courtyard, so Ansom must be attacking from Outer Walls... but he hasn't won Outer Walls yet, so he should not be allowed to attack a new zone.

    (I don't agree with one, actually. Wanda was last seen diving towards the ground. She mmay have fallen from a short distance, but she had lots of downward speed already, and could easily have died from it.)

  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Default Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122

    Quote Originally Posted by Tweed View Post
    Ansom is an entirely different story. We have no insight into what he's all about, no exposition on why he's at war with Stanley. For every ounce of competence he's demonstrated he's shown himself ten times the fool. Yet he emerges each time victorious. Now, in these past two strips, he's acting in essentially god mode: falling from his mount, sustaining no real damage, reviewing a contract, calling in the tac-nuke archons to save his butt, remounting, flying into the courtyard, seizing the 'pliers, engaging in dialogue, then flying away, all while being surrounded by a horde of undead. I'm sorry, but I call foul.
    He fell from less of a height than Wanda, and Charlie was always meant to be unpredictable. This is not godmoding, it is Parson hanging in by the skin of his teeth in an impossible situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tweed View Post
    So my displeasure is not with Ansom. If Ansom had shown himself a capable leader, as smart as Parson or as skilled a warrior as Jillian, or had even trumped Parson once during this entire arc through sheer strategy alone, I wouldn't mind as much that he's flouting the rules and dragging out the narrative again. But since that's not the case, I'm just getting bored and frustrated.
    He has ten times the forces Parson does. If he were as competent as you would like, this war would already be over. I don't really get the impression that he is a pushover as a warrior anyway. I mean, he has been knocked down once throughout the comic, and that was only just now, by an uncroaked warlord with Wanda's "huge" bonus, and Parson's new Leadership bonus (since all units in the capital get that - see Klog # something or other). Also, he does have resilience in spades (see your earlier objection, ironically ).

    His strengths are Leadership, Planning and Coalition Building. Leadership may refer simply to his Leadership bonus. Coalition building? He has that capability certainly. Planning? Well, not as a master strategist, but as far as managing a huge army on the march is concerned, then yes. In other words, he is capable of bringing huge forces to bear.

    pclips has stated that the rules of the game would be made available after the comic was complete. Perhaps it is our ignorance of all the details of these rules that make people not want to give the writers the benefit of the doubt?
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  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122

    You know jillian just says she got a frantic message about an overflight of dragons and the next turn she was a barbarian, Faq seems to have been right next doors to gowbin knob, certainly inside the sort of distance where Warlord Stanley might have easily reached it while patrolling the borders and Stanley seemed -upset- that Jillian didn't like him.

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    I still reckon Saline was allied with Faq and Stanley was sent to help. The message could well have been cut off in the middle of 'We're under attack! You have to come back and save us. Wait, whats that? A wing of dragons? *splortch as caster is killed* ghost caster 'We're saved! Gobwin Knob has come!...... Wait, damn.

  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Default Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122

    This is getting a bit tiresome. First Parson lost the dragon battle he should have won through such a series of unlikely events that it amounted to direct writer fiat, now we get one worst case outcome after another. It's getting almost too depressing to read this strip.

  9. - Top - End - #99
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    Default Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122

    Quote Originally Posted by Face Of Evil View Post
    Nice work on her part, daring Ansom to kill her. It made him hesitate juuuuuust long enough ....
    I think the "uncroaked" theme was played out perfectly in this comic. You see this pitiful half-crushed figure dressed in death, who animates death and she's reaching up at you beckoning you to come to her. Was perfectly creepy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miklus View Post
    The "less than what you took from me" - line has me puzzled too. Probably she means Jillian. Ansom is not really aware of Jillian and Wanda's little "thing", is he? A bit of a kick in the knickers, that.
    I'm pretty sure that he at least has some idea of what went on, if not all of it. I'm not nearly as good as everyone else is about quoting past comics as reference, but I believe it was in the first couple of comics where you see Ansom and Jillian together that you get the idea he knows something went on and even that he was jealous.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tweed View Post
    Ansom is an entirely different story. We have no insight into what he's all about, no exposition on why he's at war with Stanley. For every ounce of competence he's demonstrated he's shown himself ten times the fool. Yet he emerges each time victorious. Now, in these past two strips, he's acting in essentially god mode: falling from his mount, sustaining no real damage, reviewing a contract, calling in the tac-nuke archons to save his butt, remounting, flying into the courtyard, seizing the 'pliers, engaging in dialogue, then flying away, all while being surrounded by a horde of undead. I'm sorry, but I call foul.
    Or maybe it's just because we haven't seen him in action yet. Up until now he's pretty much just been giving orders or only getting into small skirmishes, whereas we've already seen everyone else fight. Perhaps he had this insane fighting ability all along, we just haven't seen it yet.

    Also, take a look at his armor. He looks a lot like a paladin, who we all know are overpowered in pretty much every game ;P.


    EDIT: references to Ansom knowing about Jillian:
    http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0008.html - Here you can see that he brings up the number of times she was captured, and she's telling him not to obsess (or be jealous) of it. If it were something entirely out of her control, Jillian would apologize for letting herself get captured. Instead, she acts more like she has the upper hand of the situation and that Ansom knows it.
    Last edited by Phrozt; 2009-01-02 at 10:09 AM.

  10. - Top - End - #100
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    Default Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreistor View Post
    I completely agree with this. That author is playing very fast and loose with rules here. Airspace can't attack Courtyard, so Ansom must be attacking from Outer Walls... but he hasn't won Outer Walls yet, so he should not be allowed to attack a new zone.
    After thinking about it a bit, it seems to me that the area between the outer circular wall and the inner square wall (which is where the current page takes place) is part of the "outer walls" zone. That fits with the description that the enemy needs to fully control outer walls before they can attack the courtyard and that they need to breach another set of "garrison walls" (i.e. the square wall) to do so.

    I suspect that, if we had the full mechanics laid out, breaching the outer wall reduces or eliminates a defensive fortification bonus, but does not in and of itself give control of the outer wall zone or ability to attack the courtyard.

    (I don't agree with one, actually. Wanda was last seen diving towards the ground. She may have fallen from a short distance, but she had lots of downward speed already, and could easily have died from it.)
    The mechanics of Erfworld are described as "simple" (though they may be more complex than Parson realized at the time he wrote that); extra falling damage for initial velocity is just the sort of thing that would get trimmed in a mechanics simplification.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phrozt View Post
    Or maybe it's just because we haven't seen him in action yet. Up until now he's pretty much just been giving orders or only getting into small skirmishes, whereas we've already seen everyone else fight. Perhaps he had this insane fighting ability all along, we just haven't seen it yet.

    Also, take a look at his armor. He looks a lot like a paladin, who we all know are overpowered in pretty much every game ;P.
    Also, we are specifically told that royals have better stats and level up faster than otherwise similar units. (Having Ansom's notions about the superiority of royalty turn out to be 100% accurate in that sense in that sense is a neat curveball, IMO.)
    Last edited by SteveMB; 2009-01-02 at 10:07 AM.

  11. - Top - End - #101
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    Default Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122

    Heh, "are become". That's almost as good as "an hero".
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    I am laughing my head off and applauding your tactic genius all at the same time. Bravo, good sir...
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    Default Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122

    Weird to keep on reading, almost depressing, and all the more unlikely for Parson to win this battle. I bet the twist on how Parson will eventually win will be even more awkward than these twists.

    We'll have to wait and see though, funny how people are pushing eachother into: "Hey this comic ain' right, *whine* *whine* etc...", while people like SteveMB reviews the situation with facts and a sharp eye and are able to read this comic with an objective view.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122

    Quote Originally Posted by spoddington View Post
    Sizemore to the rescue.
    Wanda's more intriguing by the strip.
    What on erf is she on about?

    She'll go kablooey with power if he touches her with it of course. Durh. ^^

  14. - Top - End - #104
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    Default Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122

    I find it interesting that Wanda's hand is straining toward the Arkenpliers even before Ansom makes it down. To me that suggests the "Touch me" is no bluff. Whether or not she's looking for death or attunement is a stickier matter.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122

    Quote Originally Posted by The Minx View Post
    Perhaps Ansom destroyed her tribe? And then she willingly joined Stanley because she knew he and Ansom were/would become enemies? Her comment would make sense that way, as would her loyalty sans spells, as commented on by Jillian and Jaclyn.

    Why should he do that? They are at war, and besides, she just turned his men (including a friend/confidante) into a zombie.

    A lot of people seem to be aggravated at Ansom for wanting to take Gobwin Knob, but seriously, why is that? Despite Stanley having attacked people left right and center, apparently. Taking GK would make sense, since there was no certainty that Jillian's mission to croak Stanley would succeed.
    I've always assumed that the Croatan Tribe was the Tribe that dwelt in Faq. If he did destroy her tribe, either he really did destroy Faq or this is the third side she's served that has been brought to the brink of annihilation.

    Why shouldn't he? Murdering the wounded is never acceptable. As for the uncroaked, what of it? She was given a direct order, she had no choice but to obey. And the order was made in the hopes of saving a City and it's people from those who intend to destroy them. How many thousands have died in Ansom's war? Or is it tens of thousands?

    Ansom by his own admittance had no cause for war. It's been alleged that Stanley has attacked other sides, but there's no smoking gun (unlike in Ansom's case). Who knows what happened at Faq for example? Now Ansom? He wasn't going to let a little thing like Stanley dying, and his last City losing all capacity to wage war stop him from slaughtering the inhabitants and taking their stuff. He's a bad guy. Stanley might be just as bad, but it's just not proven in his case.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122

    It is rather annoying me how Wanda was diving for it and Ansom scrolled down, read the text, protested, agreed to it, and the Archons fought for him and Wanda didn't make it in time... should've been shown very differently.

    Still love the comic though.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122

    Quote Originally Posted by Whispri View Post
    Ansom by his own admittance had no cause for war. It's been alleged that Stanley has attacked other sides, but there's no smoking gun (unlike in Ansom's case). Who knows what happened at Faq for example? Now Ansom? He wasn't going to let a little thing like Stanley dying, and his last City losing all capacity to wage war stop him from slaughtering the inhabitants and taking their stuff. He's a bad guy. Stanley might be just as bad, but it's just not proven in his case.
    I think it's a bit of a stretch to suggest that Stanley may not be guilty of attacking anybody. For one thing, if people were accusing him of unprovoked attacks of which he was not guilty, and going to war with him on that basis, I think he would have complained about that slander during his little rant. For another, sustaining such a deception (by the real attacker) and/or mistake (by the RCC) through an entire military campaign just doesn't seem at all plausible.

    That said, there may be something to the notion that Stanley wasn't necessarily the one who attacked Faq -- the "overflight of dwagons" could have been wild ones (the Arkenhamer "tames" them, not "pops" them), or even Stanley coming to the rescue (and whoever sent Jillian the message got cut off or otherwise failed to properly explain the situation).

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    Default Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122

    Just thought I'd speak up in regards to what seems to be a fairly considerable feeling that the battle just keeps getting more unwinnable for Parson. Thanks to Ansom's casualty report, a bit of quick math reveals that from the oridgonal 25:1, the numbers are now around... 2:1. Thats assuming Ansom was reporting the total losses in the tunnels, not just Jetstone losses. (If that wasn't including marbit losses, well yikes.) Thats a tad misleading of course, most of GK's forces are extreamly weak uncroacked, and the RCC has picked up more archons, which have been shown to be effective attackers, even if it remains to be seen how they fair against full health opponents they don't badly outnumber. Also, GK lost most of their dwagons, some very powerful units.

    Still, from 25:1 to 2:1, and GK is a defensive position. Even if Jetstone can break the walls now (which seems likely) they are left with the options of :

    A: Fighting through the horde of uncroaked, then assaulting the garrison walls.

    B: Making a mad dash for the garrison walls and hoping they can break through and capture the garrison before they get swarmed by said uncroaked.

    C: Some combination of A and B.

    Simply counting on shear force of numbers to crush the opposition isn't a sure-fire tactic anymore.

    And those archons were what would be enough to take the garrison before GK's forces were multiplied thanks to the horde of uncroaked. And possibly Parson's increase in leadership bonus, and Stanley may be capable of returning before the archons can attack the garrison (Stanley's bonus and artifact bonus would apply then, plus having a functioning foolmancer could be useful), and before whatever Parson does on his next turn(If the RCC can't take the garrison this turn). Of course, the RCC may well reduce GK's forces considerably even if they fail to take the garrison.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122

    I saw two interpretations for Wanda's statements.

    1) She lost Jillian, come and finish me off

    or

    2) She lost the Arkenpliers to Ansom to begin with. This was honestly my first assumption.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122

    Quote Originally Posted by Tweed View Post
    Ansom is an entirely different story. We have no insight into what he's all about, no exposition on why he's at war with Stanley. For every ounce of competence he's demonstrated he's shown himself ten times the fool. Yet he emerges each time victorious. Now, in these past two strips, he's acting in essentially god mode: falling from his mount, sustaining no real damage, reviewing a contract, calling in the tac-nuke archons to save his butt, remounting, flying into the courtyard, seizing the 'pliers, engaging in dialogue, then flying away, all while being surrounded by a horde of undead. I'm sorry, but I call foul.
    He's a high-level hero character, thats what he's about.

    And hero's dont die in combat with lieutenants. Its all about the finale mate.

    Besides, its not about the combat or the rules, its about the story. There's too much left to resolve for Ansom to croak out yet.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMB View Post
    After thinking about it a bit, it seems to me that the area between the outer circular wall and the inner square wall (which is where the current page takes place) is part of the "outer walls" zone. That fits with the description that the enemy needs to fully control outer walls before they can attack the courtyard and that they need to breach another set of "garrison walls" (i.e. the square wall) to do so.
    Steve, I appreciate that you never say a word against the authors and always strive to defend them.

    But the fact there's STILL this much confusion on a topic that has been addressed multiple times in both klogs and external posts is a sure sign that it's either insufficiently conceived, or poorly explained.

    There's a reason why you're hearing a chorus of complaints about this strip. These past two strips have been terrible, and it's stretching my suspension of disbelief to the breaking point.

    You (and the authors, for that matter) can feel free to ignore this if you want, however.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveD View Post
    He's a high-level hero character, thats what he's about.

    And hero's dont die in combat with lieutenants. Its all about the finale mate.

    Besides, its not about the combat or the rules, its about the story. There's too much left to resolve for Ansom to croak out yet.
    If Wanda's a lieutenant then Ansom is definitely a lieutenant, they're both powerful units in service to another after all.

    Besides she was going to capture him and he could have escaped without having his most recent defeat completely reversed.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMB View Post
    I think it's a bit of a stretch to suggest that Stanley may not be guilty of attacking anybody. For one thing, if people were accusing him of unprovoked attacks of which he was not guilty, and going to war with him on that basis, I think he would have complained about that slander during his little rant. For another, sustaining such a deception (by the real attacker) and/or mistake (by the RCC) through an entire military campaign just doesn't seem at all plausible.

    That said, there may be something to the notion that Stanley wasn't necessarily the one who attacked Faq -- the "overflight of dwagons" could have been wild ones (the Arkenhamer "tames" them, not "pops" them), or even Stanley coming to the rescue (and whoever sent Jillian the message got cut off or otherwise failed to properly explain the situation).
    He doesn't mention anything about why he's at war with Ansom either, and yet we know how little reason he was able to give Vinnie. But Stanley did rant about propaganda... I'll also point out that he could have inherited his enemies from Saline IV, his side had a history before he took charge of it. And if he did start one or more conflicts his enemies may have given him good cause. So while he may be everything his enemies say he is I don't see any reason to take their word for it.

    It might even have been just the largest of a number of problems that they couldn't veil every City against, but not the problem that attacked them.
    Last edited by Whispri; 2009-01-02 at 12:29 PM.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122

    What's everyones thoughts on panel 10? Ansom looks to be drawing back to strike. At the suggested distance I don't think he'd be pulling them away from Wanda as there already was plenty of room between them.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122

    Quote Originally Posted by Whispri View Post
    Why shouldn't he? Murdering the wounded is never acceptable.
    Do you have any reason to believe "wounded" is even defined on Erfworld in a way which makes sense to you?

    We've observed that a unit which has received enough damage will croak, and of course we've just had it proven to us that you can be incapacitated but not croaked yet. We've seen no evidence that bones can actually break, ligaments can actually tear, spleens can rupture, and so on.

    We DO know that there exists "healomancy", that there exists healing (the strip with the altruist elves), that Maggie thinks getting a healer to Wanda will help her. Combined with how gamelike the Erf universe is, I'd say it's pretty damn likely that with an application of a healing spell or two, Wanda will be back up to fighting par with no long term ramifications.

    In the real world, you might avoid killing a wounded opponent because he's no longer a threat and won't be one for a long time to come. Wanda can (possibly) become a threat again in maybe as little as one turn. In Ansom's shoes, I would absolutely kill all enemy wounded, especially since I also suspect that wounded-but-not-croaked-or-incapacitated units function at full ability (an incredibly common simplification in strategy games - very few have injured units perform worse than healthy ones).

    Mind you, if I could incapacitate, I'd do that; my enemy, Parson, has a croakamancer but no healamancer, so killing his units might help him more than incapacitating them. If I get the chance to croak the croakamancer, I'm all over that like a fat man on sausage.

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    Default Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122

    I completely agree with this. That author is playing very fast and loose with rules here. Airspace can't attack Courtyard, so Ansom must be attacking from Outer Walls... but he hasn't won Outer Walls yet, so he should not be allowed to attack a new zone
    You act like the rules are not a set made up byt he author (and thus his to play with).


    You people are so annoying.

    Unlike with DnD (and its 5000 books) you have no source with all the rules of the game the story takes place in, yet you still claim that the author is violating them. What are the gameplay rules for retrieving a dropped item? And what about the fact that he isnt assaulting anything. He just came, got the pliers, and left. Can that really be called an attack?

    And i have a firm belief that story should trump gameplay.
    Last edited by Stormthorn; 2009-01-02 at 01:06 PM.

  26. - Top - End - #116
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    Default Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreistor View Post
    (I don't agree with one, actually. Wanda was last seen diving towards the ground. She mmay have fallen from a short distance, but she had lots of downward speed already, and could easily have died from it.)
    Or perhaps there's damage implied when one falls from airspace to outer walls. It's a simplification, of course, but that's to be expected.
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  27. - Top - End - #117
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    Default Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122

    As regards the timeline issue: this isn't a real-time game. What's the problem with things *literally* happening at the speed of plot? (Or am I missing / forgetting something really fundamental about the rules of Erfworld? Considering that turns don't end until people say they do...)

    And, no, I don't understand all the forum-hate for Ansom either. I mean, sure, he's full of himself, but he also seems to be trying to do the right thing (insofar as he can overcome his personal weaknesses). To me, that makes him an interesting, conflicted character - just like a number of the other very interesting characters in this strip. I can't wait to see where the authors are going to take them all!
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  28. - Top - End - #118
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    Default Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122

    Quote Originally Posted by headhoncho View Post
    ...
    But the fact there's STILL this much confusion on a topic that has been addressed multiple times in both klogs and external posts is a sure sign that it's either insufficiently conceived, or poorly explained.

    There's a reason why you're hearing a chorus of complaints about this strip. These past two strips have been terrible, and it's stretching my suspension of disbelief to the breaking point.
    *Long* time reader, first time poster. Had to chime in on this one.

    I would just like to respond to some of the complaints about inconsistency, specifically the quoted bit above.

    First of all, no writers are above continuity errors. But Rob and Jamie have earned my trust, largely through compelling and surprisingly tight storytelling, that they 'get' the mechanics of their world and the implications it would have for them to violate them.

    That said, the last two comics did nothing to stress that hard won trust. If there was a 'reason' people were complaining about the last two strips, it did not strike me. Here's what I've been hearing:

    1) Ansom reading the contract and accepting before being accosted by the undead air force:

    This stuck out to me for a moment. But when you consider that Ansom cried out 'Charlie, I agree to your terms!', he must have already been familiar with some outstanding offer from Charlie, that now simply included a still-as-yet unrevealed amendment that was outrageous enough to give him pause at the brink of his own defeat. The overwhelming victory the archons have purchased him has come at some considerable price that I can't wait to learn the details of.

    2) Ansom retrieving the Arkenpliers from the courtyard:

    They're not in the courtyard. Simply put. They're at the Outer Wall. This didn't set off any alarms for me, hence this entire response.

    I could understand the reaction if Rob and Jamie were prone to mistakes, but why would they go to such lengths to explain the rules (and enforce them recently, ala the archons having no move), and then make such a stunning oversight? I mean no personal offense, but the threshold of some people's suspension of disbelief surprises me sometimes.

    On a side note, When I saw the Arkenpliers fall, I did momentarily think back to Stanley being hoisted by the Arkenhammer, and Vinnie being pretty sure that they couldn't move him out of the hex. This made me pondered what the rules must be for environmental factors, such as wind and gravity, moving stuff around hexes and zones. Are the rules different for items and units? Does that mean that Jillian hit the hex bubble, could she have thrown her sword after Stanley into the next hex? If I fell off my mount in air space, would I hit a bubble before I changed zones if I was out of movement?

    All these questions are par for the course in Erfworld however. I'm just waiting to see if Parson figures out any more 'sploitable mechanics with them.

    3) Wanda's fall broke her. Ansom's fall tore his cape. Where's the justice?

    Frankly, I was just glad that Ansom didn't turn Wanda into a fine mist as soon as she got into melee. If Ansom couldn't brush off the damage, or if Wanda could, I would cry foul. What would be the point of popping warlords at all? We already saw Sizemore (thankfully) take out Webinar and Dora, and Jack single handedly disrupting a dozen warlords. Wanda's near fatal fall is an example of the reason you don't send casters into battle.

    I could go on, but I think the wall of text is big enough. My point is I have a personal desire to see Parson succeed, and these set backs are having the supposedly intended effect of raising the tension rather than just simply frustrating me. The last two strips have not, in fact, been terrible. If there is a chorus of complainers, put me in the chorus of endorsers.

  29. - Top - End - #119
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    Default Re: Erfworld 135 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 122

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveD View Post
    Besides, its not about the combat or the rules, its about the story.
    That's my point. I am frustrated because the story is getting frustrating. And not in a dramatic, edge-of-my-seat sort of way. Based on the past 140+ strips, I can safely wager that the next four months of real-world time will progress like this:

    (1) Parson licks his wounds and tries to salvage victory from the jaws of defeat.
    (2) Parson hatches a brilliant plan that is not guaranteed to succeed but is the best he can hope for in these circumstances.
    (3) Klog entry that expounds on the rules.
    (4) The plan works! Mostly. Ansom and his forces realize another setback. Things look like they might be turning around, or at least changing.
    (5) Nope, just kidding! Ansom pulls another ace out of his sleeve, or experiences another crazy bit of luck, and Parson's meager progress is stamped down.
    (6) Repeat steps (1) through (5).

    Regardless of the "rules" of Erfworld or Ansom's awesomeness as a royal warlord, regardless of hexes and movement rates, I am frustrated most by the story. The story is not progressing in any appreciable way. After two months of following this particular siege plot, we are back to Page 101. And how did we get back there? From my perspective, we got back there from nothing more than Ansom jumping on a carpet and shouting, "I AM AWESOME!" Which, y'know, isn't exactly riveting storytelling.

    (To me, anyway -- and hey, what do I know? )
    Last edited by Tweed; 2009-01-02 at 02:40 PM.

  30. - Top - End - #120
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    Default Lich Gambit?

    I really like the idea tha Wanda might be able to attune with the pliers, however...

    What if she wasn't thinking of the pliers at all?

    What if she's counting on a "Lich Gambit"?

    By that I mean, maybe she is all primed and ready for her own death, and upon dying, her magic turns her into something.... worse? Something that might be far more powerful than her current form, albeit with limitations of its own?

    She might have been asking Ansom to kill her because she knew it would be the death of him as well.

    If I was a necromancer, I would certainly have auto-lich spells active before entering battle. At least if I was powerful enough. And she's not lacking in the power department.
    I just published my first novella, Lúnasa Days, a modern fantasy with a subtle, uncertain magic.

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