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Thread: 3.5e: Grapple Flowcharts
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2011-04-06, 01:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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3.5e: Grapple Flowcharts
Anyone know of a flowchart for grappling in 3.5e? If not, can anyone tell how the pathfinder grappling rules differ from 3.5e's, so that I can use the pathfinder flowcharts with minor modifications?
I need to explain grappling to a newbie player, but going through the rules and creating a flowchart of my own seems... daunting.
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2011-04-06, 01:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5e: Grapple Flowcharts
Initiating a grapple:
- Provoke AoO (hit = end of attempt)
- Melee touch attack (miss = end of attempt)
- Opposed grapple check (fail = end of attempt)
Once grappling, you and your opponent each have the following options. Each requires an opposed grapple check or is a wasted action.
- Basic Actions that don't affect how the grapple continues.
- SActivate a Magic Item (no spell completion items [ie scrolls], no opposed check)
- ?Attack Your Opponent (Unarmed, Natural, or Light Weapon only. Necessity of opposed check is unclear)
- VCast a Spell (Standard action or less; No 'S' components; 'M', 'F', and 'DF' components must be in hand)
- ADamage Your Opponent (Unarmed)
- MDraw a Light Weapon
- FRetrieve a Spell Component
- AUse Opponent's Weapon (light weapon only)
- Actions that change the grapple
- SEscape from Grapple (You may substitute an Escape Artist check)
- Success ends the grapple. Failure wastes an action
- SMove
- Success allows you to move have your speed in any direction, taking all grapplers with you. Failure wastes an action.
- APin Your Opponent
- Success changes options for both grapplers, See below. Failure wastes an action.
- SEscape from Grapple (You may substitute an Escape Artist check)
If you are pinning your opponent you can
- ADamage Your Opponent
- AUse Opponent's Weapon (light weapon only)
- SMove
- SDisarm or remove secured worn object
- VCast spell (Standard action or less, no 'S', 'M', or 'F' components.)
- Hold opponent silent (no action, no opposed check)
- MRelease opponent (no opposed check, ends grapple)
If you are pinned you can
- SEscape the pin (you may substitute an Escape Artist check)
- Success means you are still grappled, but no longer pinned. Failure wastes an action.
All actions, unless otherwise noted, require you to win an opposed grapple check to have any affect. Options are marked based on the action type required.
0 Free Action
M Move Action
S Standard Action
A Attack Action
F Full Round Action
V Varies
N No Action
? UnclearLast edited by Kumori; 2011-04-06 at 02:13 AM.
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2011-04-06, 01:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5e: Grapple Flowcharts
Excited for this. Thanks : )
Gary Gygax: "As an author, I also realize that there are limits to my creativity and imagination. Others will think of things I didn't, and devise things beyond my capabilities".
Also Gary Gygax: "The AD&D game system does not allow the injection of extraneous material. That is clearly stated in the rule books. It is thus a simple matter: Either one plays the AD&D game, or one plays something else."
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2011-04-06, 01:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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2011-04-06, 02:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5e: Grapple Flowcharts
Done... I made a judgement call on a few of the action types, but it should all be accurate. I don't think there's anything left out.
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2011-04-06, 04:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5e: Grapple Flowcharts
Just want to note that you can attack in a grapple without making a successful grapple check.
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2011-04-06, 04:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5e: Grapple Flowcharts
Bloody hell.
Did you type that up yourself?
If so, impressive. If not, link pleaseAwesome fremetar by wxdruid.
From the discomfort of truth there is only one refuge and that is ignorance. I do not need to be comfortable, and I will not take refuge. I demand to *know*.
So I guess I have an internets? | And a trophy. | And a music cookie (whatever that is).
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2011-04-06, 05:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5e: Grapple Flowcharts
So no where in the rules does it mention performing any grappling moves other than pinning, moving, keeping them silent, and attaking them with their own weapon (which I picture as grabbing their wrist and making them stab themself).
Any rules about throwing an enemy? Like, I grapple with someone while my back is to a wall covered in spikes, I want to turn them so they're facing the wall and throw them into the spikes.
Or would this simply be the move action then voluntarily ending the grapple then bullrushing them into the spikes?
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2011-04-06, 05:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5e: Grapple Flowcharts
Conan had a cool combat maneuver called Fling Aside that you could perform if you had Improved Grapple. You needed one hand free to make a Grapple check and, if successful, you could throw your target (just 5' iirc) and it would land prone. I loved that move.
Let me give you a brief rundown of an average Post-3E Era fight: You attack an enemy and start kicking his shins. He then starts kicking your shins, then you take it in turns kicking until one of you falls over. It basically comes down to who started the battle with the biggest boot, and the only strategy involved is realizing when things have gone tits up and legging it.
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2011-04-06, 08:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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2011-04-06, 09:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5e: Grapple Flowcharts
Throwing someone your grappling requires a feat, throw foe.
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2011-04-06, 09:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5e: Grapple Flowcharts
For throwing people around, the Setting Sun maneuvers are much more fun and efficient than grappling. Much, much easier to adjudicate, too.
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2011-04-06, 10:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5e: Grapple Flowcharts
I found a little inconsistancy a while back, I'll include it here for completeness. It has to do with moving your opponent.
Originally Posted by SRD, Grapple
But wait, there's more...
Originally Posted by SRD, Grapple
It takes a grapple action to pin someone. A grapple action is a form of attack action, which means that it either involves a standard action or a full round action (to make multiple attempts). So, if it takes me a standard action at LEAST to pin someone, I don't really have a standard action left to move them. And its not like I can spend this round's standard action to pin them, and assuming they don't escape, spend next round's standard action to drag them. Nope, because a pin only lasts one round. And its not like my friend can pin a foe for me, and then I move him, since it only works with 2 people in a grapple.
Keep in mind that the PHB was written before Belts of Battle or Factotums or any of the other ways to gain extra standard actions in a round.
Thus, at the time of writing, it is physically impossible to gain that +4 bonus to drag a pinned foe. Aren't rules fun?!?!?!?!
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2011-04-06, 01:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5e: Grapple Flowcharts
Actually, I think you would move as a move action as normal, you just have to win a grapple check to do so. So it ends up breaking down like this(supossing you are already grappling):
1. State attempt to pin oponnent
2. Roll opposed grapple attempt
3. use up standard action whether you win or lose it (we'll supose you win)
4. state attempt to move grapple
5. roll opposed grapple attempt (you get the +4 here)
6. use up move action either way
I learned this from a thread about black blood cultist optimization(whos REAL capstone causes you to want to provoke as many opposed grapples as posible).Last edited by Necroticplague; 2011-04-06 at 01:34 PM.
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2011-04-06, 02:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5e: Grapple Flowcharts
Originally Posted by PHB, pg 156
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2011-04-06, 06:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5e: Grapple Flowcharts
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2011-04-06, 06:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5e: Grapple Flowcharts
Go for it.
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2011-04-06, 09:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5e: Grapple Flowcharts
There's a printable page on it in my sig cheat sheets, among other rules.
Last edited by ericgrau; 2011-04-06 at 09:51 PM.
So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles and other terrain stuff (100 MB)
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2013-01-19, 06:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5e: Grapple Flowcharts
Hello all. I have read through the flowchart here and just wanted clarify whether casting a spell required an opposed grapple check as the SRD at http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Grapple#Cast_a_Spell says “You don’t have to make a successful grapple check to cast the spell”.
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2013-01-19, 06:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5e: Grapple Flowcharts
In case you also want a flowchart for Pathfinder, just check my sig.
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2013-01-19, 09:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: 3.5e: Grapple Flowcharts
This is, in fact, correct.
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