BleachITP Reborn: Discussion & Setup Thread 8

[AmberVael]

I figure Edward might just be the fastest and maneuverable of all the Espada...

You know, there are a ton of Espada competing for that. This isn't necessarily about Edward, just a commentary in general, which I thought I'd point out.

I mean, Genoveva is supposed to be pretty good at it- Sereg has basically sacrificed everything to be good at it. Arcelia is the Messenger Espada, and thus is a master at it (I had intended to make her the fastest if there wasn't really any competition for it, but... yeah).

I kind of get the feeling that it might be important to actually figure out which one is the fastest, because it is likely going to come up at some point.
Callos and I have talked to each other, and have decided that while Genoveva might have more technical skill at Sonido, Arcelia is still faster than her overall.

I would presume that Sereg (being Septima), is simply too far down the power scale to be able to compete with any of the top three Espada- potentially, he could be faster than an Espada who qualified for that position, but if an Espada in that position is also known for their speed, I would guess that they would be faster than someone that much lower than them.

Which... I guess would probably leave it between Edward and Arcelia.

[tgva8889]

The last man standing bit though...I'm squinting really hard at it, but not much is coming to me. I'm sure I'll think of something. Or not.

Clearly, the answer is a Spiked Chain Trip Fighter.

[riccaru]

You know, there are a ton of Espada competing for that. This isn't necessarily about Edward, just a commentary in general, which I thought I'd point out.

I mean, Genoveva is supposed to be pretty good at it- Sereg has basically sacrificed everything to be good at it. Arcelia is the Messenger Espada, and thus is a master at it (I had intended to make her the fastest if there wasn't really any competition for it, but... yeah).

I kind of get the feeling that it might be important to actually figure out which one is the fastest, because it is likely going to come up at some point.
Callos and I have talked to each other, and have decided that while Genoveva might have more technical skill at Sonido, Arcelia is still faster than her overall.

I would presume that Sereg (being Septima), is simply too far down the power scale to be able to compete with any of the top three Espada- potentially, he could be faster than an Espada who qualified for that position, but if an Espada in that position is also known for their speed, I would guess that they would be faster than someone that much lower than them.

Which... I guess would probably leave it between Edward and Arcelia.

Yes, but if the sacrifice didn't have a much greater benefit than just doing it the old fashioned way, than why would sacrificing power be so common in canon?

I would assume there is only so much you can do without the sacrifice, otherwise there's no reason to even have that option.

Edit: @TGVA. Or Pun-Pun? Or an artificer O_o...Or the infinite pain loop thing.

[InyutheBeatIs]

Clearly, the answer is a Spiked Chain Trip Fighter.

Ah yes, as always the answer lies in the Min/Max forums.

...Wait a second.

Wait a second.

Okay, in the whole Las Noches thing, where do Adjuchas and other non-Arrancar fit in? And more importantly, is there a chance that one could be under an Espada's rule? Even more importantly, an Adjuchas is generally weaker than a Privaron right?

[Boo]

In before the next thread!

*ahem*

I have some bad news, peeps. See, my home dog told me some shiaight about stuff, then I found out about this other mofluke who was all like "naaaaw" and I was all like "YAW". So I'm getting pounded with work, and I don't think I'll be able to participate in the end. I just don't have enough time in a day to really read all the text, respond, etc. I don't want to slow y'all down, so you dawgs can carry on without me. I guess Himura can be an NPC... or someone can take her over.

Again; sorry folks. I am simply too busy with multiple projects (personal and financial) to play without dragging out every single conversation like a game of Risk. The most I can do is give the occasional tip on Himura's personality if someone decides to RP her.

Oh, and feel free to have her killed in some dramatic way. She's pretty hard to kill... so maybe retirement could work better. That's only if you want to take her out of the picture entirely. Just whatever you do, don't let the 12th turn her into a puppet or something out of Draken's happiest dream.

Anyway, gotta run... then sleep, then wake up, do an exam, run an hour, shop, do the garden, cook dinner, die...

[riccaru]

Ah yes, as always the answer lies in the Min/Max forums.

...Wait a second.

Wait a second.

Okay, in the whole Las Noches thing, where do Adjuchas and other non-Arrancar fit in? And more importantly, is there a chance that one could be under an Espada's rule? Even more importantly, an Adjuchas is generally weaker than a Privaron right?

Not so much under your rule as made to follow you or will be killed, but yes, and adjuchas could be in your sector. You have full control over everyone who chooses to reside in your sector. They are generally weaker than high level numeros, as well, as many arrancar are from adjuchas.

Edit: @ Boo: Aww, that sucks. Good luck with your other endeavors though.

[Boo]

Quickback!

I actually really wanted to do a subplot with Hannibal. Himura would secretly love him, but completely hate herself for it, and so it would turn into this constant loop of love and hate and some other thing that I can't describe. Yep. Never even PM'd Foot_Face about it.

I decided on that in my first post with Himura talking to Hannibal. >>

[tgva8889]

Edit: @TGVA. Or Pun-Pun? Or an artificer O_o...Or the infinite pain loop thing.

If they're prone, they're not "standing." He doesn't have to kill or even defeat them, just knock them prone.

Obviously.

[riccaru]

If they're prone, they're not "standing." He doesn't have to kill or even defeat them, just knock them prone.

Obviously.

He'd still have to get them all down at once, which will be quite hard.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Okay, I get the Privaron loophole, but for some reason I really doubt Apolinar is going to be happy with Pico coming up to him and basically saying, "hey there guy I kicked out of Espada-hood, listen, I'm gonna need you to do me a favor and be my champion in this upcoming match. You know, so that I can win and take all the glory."

That's a loophole?

[KnightDisciple]

He'd still have to get them all down at once, which will be quite hard.

Really big chain and Whirlwind Attack.

[riccaru]

Really big chain and Whirlwind Attack.

What if they're flying?

[nothingclever]

You know, there are a ton of Espada competing for that. This isn't necessarily about Edward, just a commentary in general, which I thought I'd point out.

Yeah, I was thinking about pointing it out too. Too bad I can't call dibs on account of having the first speedster entry.

I'll just say I'd like to think Edward is the speediest/most agile because of his rank and the fact that he has little else going for him besides sharp claws and pretty good hierro. He isn't physically strong for his rank and his projectiles are abysmal. His Resurrección also increases his speed. Besides, it would be a pity if Arcelia could run from his affections. ;_;

Speed and grace are pretty integral to his image because he's supposed to represent the stereotypically fragile graceful maiden while ironically being pretty hardy.

Of course your character and others have their own equally valid points for having the title.

[AmberVael]

What if they're flying?

Really big chain, Whirlwind Attack and a grappling hook.

[tgva8889]

If you're flying, technically you're not "standing." He doesn't care.

[KnightDisciple]

On the Edward-Arcelia-Genoveva speed issue...

Here's an idea:

Genoveve has the highest degree of technical skill; she can perform more "tricks" with sonido than either Arcelia or Edward, but both can, ultimately, outpace her.

Arcelia, as a messenger, has the greatest endurance of the three. She can keep going fast well after the other two have had to rest. She is faster than Genoveva, but slower than Edward.

Edward is the best at pure speed; every usage of sonido carries him further, in a shorter amount of time, than the other two. While Genoveva has more practiced grace, Edward is naturally graceful, with a nice ebb and flow to his movements, dodges, etc.

The three of them still end up pretty close in speed, but there's a hierarchy, while still giving them each a unique edge.

Sereg's the Septima, and lucks out, losing to any one of them in speed.

[riccaru]

Yeah, I was thinking about pointing it out too. Too bad I can't call dibs on account of having the first speedster entry.

I'll just say I'd like to think Edward is the speediest/most agile because of his rank and the fact that he has little else going for him besides sharp claws and pretty good hierro. He isn't physically strong for his rank and his projectiles are abysmal. His Resurrección also increases his speed. Besides, it would be a pity if Arcelia could run from his affections. ;_;

Speed and grace are pretty integral to his image because he's supposed to represent the stereotypically fragile graceful maiden while ironically being pretty hardy.

Of course your character and others have their own equally valid points for having the title.

The way I see it, being weak would make you slower at sonido. Sonido is in my thoughts a much more primal and brutal way of moving fast. Arrancar literally break their way through the sound barrier through sheer force, which is why they make a much louder noise. Shinigami however are more refined and somewhat sidestep the sound barrier, pushing against it but not breaking it somehow. It's pretty much the same thing with Senkai gates and Garganta. Garganta rips the fabric of space to create an unstable portal, while the senkai gates are much less brutal.

It's like the faster than light technology in Halo. The humans have a machine that rips open a hole in their dimensional space, while the Covenant use a process to slowly open existing holes, allowing them more precision.

[AmberVael]

I'll just say I'd like to think Edward is the speediest/most agile because of his rank and the fact that he has little else going for him besides sharp claws and pretty good hierro. He isn't physically strong for his rank and his projectiles are abysmal. His Resurrección also increases his speed.

You realize I can say all the same things about Arcelia, right?
Except she doesn't have good hierro?
And her pesquisa has more limitations on it?

Granted, she has that nifty Garganta thing... except oh wait, that's because she's fast.

Speed and grace are pretty integral to his image because he's supposed to represent the stereotypically fragile graceful maiden while ironically being pretty hardy.

Speed and grace are integral to Arcelia because her entire concept is "angel."
Angel, that is, from the word Angelos- "Messenger."
Hence her messenger title... and why I decided to make her so fast.

But Edward is a rank higher, I'll give you that.
For now. MUWAHAHAHA!
Still, I think I could easily make an argument for Arcelia being his equal, at minimum.


I do think KD has an interesting idea though. I like it, and it does make sense.

[Callos_DeTerran]

This is for all the sonido masters in Las Noches...this was something I had been discussing with Amber the other day...

I had been thinking of Gemini Sonido as actually...not a result of speed by rather a result of technical skill with Sonido. That's why Amber mentioned above that Arcelia was faster then Genoveva, but Genoveva has more technical skill with it ((Because we both agreed Arcelia was faster...then noticed that Genoeveva was somehow capable of creating after images while Arcelia couldn't)).

If you look at it that way...then Sereg is better at Sonido since (to my knowledge) Edward can't create after images...while Edward himself is faster.

EDIT: MAssive ninja

[KnightDisciple]

The way I see it, being weak would make you slower at sonido. Sonido is in my thoughts a much more primal and brutal way of moving fast. Arrancar literally break their way through the sound barrier through sheer force, which is why they make a much louder noise. Shinigami however are more refined and somewhat sidestep the sound barrier, pushing against it but not breaking it somehow. It's pretty much the same thing with Senkai gates and Garganta. Garganta rips the fabric of space to create an unstable portal, while the senkai gates are much less brutal.

It's like the faster than light technology in Halo. The humans have a machine that rips open a hole in their dimensional space, while the Covenant use a process to slowly open existing holes, allowing them more precision.

That doesn't follow experienced canon, though. Zommari and Stark are both really fast. Stark's likely the fastest Espada, though it's likely a close call.

But Yammy, all numbers shenigans aside, is likely the physically strongest. Or one of them. And he's slow.

I'd point out that Flash Step would, theoretically, be no different. It sounds different, but really, either way you're moving yourself really fast.

Yet Soi Fon is faster than Komamaru, even though the latter is definitely stronger.

[Sucrose]

In before the next thread!

*ahem*

I have some bad news, peeps. See, my home dog told me some shiaight about stuff, then I found out about this other mofluke who was all like "naaaaw" and I was all like "YAW". So I'm getting pounded with work, and I don't think I'll be able to participate in the end. I just don't have enough time in a day to really read all the text, respond, etc. I don't want to slow y'all down, so you dawgs can carry on without me. I guess Himura can be an NPC... or someone can take her over.

Again; sorry folks. I am simply too busy with multiple projects (personal and financial) to play without dragging out every single conversation like a game of Risk. The most I can do is give the occasional tip on Himura's personality if someone decides to RP her.

Oh, and feel free to have her killed in some dramatic way. She's pretty hard to kill... so maybe retirement could work better. That's only if you want to take her out of the picture entirely. Just whatever you do, don't let the 12th turn her into a puppet or something out of Draken's happiest dream.

Anyway, gotta run... then sleep, then wake up, do an exam, run an hour, shop, do the garden, cook dinner, die...

Well, I'm sorry to hear that you'll be leaving us. You and I have had our differences, but I do value you as a member of the community. You'll be missed.

Hope your other projects go well.

[Krazddndfreek]

Really big chain and Whirlwind Attack.

Ehh, whirlwind attack is rather suboptimal. It would be better to get the weapon property if you actually wanted it. Also, it's not really clear by RAW whether you can, but it would be better to pump up dex and just have combat reflexes and get Inhuman Reach and trip them with your AoOs at 20ft.

EDIT: Also, if a flying creature is tripped, as long as flight is nonmagical, they fall to the ground prone.

[riccaru]

That doesn't follow experienced canon, though. Zommari and Stark are both really fast. Stark's likely the fastest Espada, though it's likely a close call.

But Yammy, all numbers shenigans aside, is likely the physically strongest. Or one of them. And he's slow.

I'd point out that Flash Step would, theoretically, be no different. It sounds different, but really, either way you're moving yourself really fast.

Yet Soi Fon is faster than Komamaru, even though the latter is definitely stronger.

And then you have Kenpachi, who can't use flash steps at all, is strong, and can keep up with flash steps, through sheer force (like an arrancar). Have we seen Yammy use Sonido at all? Maybe he never uses it? Maybe he doesn't even have it?

[KnightDisciple]

I do think KD has an interesting idea though. I like it, and it does make sense.

It was basically a way to make the three of them roughly equal in this area, while still preserving their uniqueness. These ideas seemed to fit the best.

Though, while Edward's entry doesn't explicitly mention afterimages....I guess NC could answer for sure on whether he can produce them or not.

[nothingclever]

Still, I think I could easily make an argument for Arcelia being his equal, at minimum.

Your character has much better bala and cero and has four boosts to stats in Resurrección while mine has three. Mine has less strength in relation to his rank but yours has less hierro.

I didn't say you didn't have a good claim to it though.

[KnightDisciple]

And then you have Kenpachi, who can't use flash steps at all, is strong, and can keep up with flash steps, through sheer force (like an arrancar). Have we seen Yammy use Sonido at all? Maybe he never uses it? Maybe he doesn't even have it?

Or "Higher Strength = Higher Sonido" is incorrect. It goes against the idea of a "Fragile Speedster" archetype. I say we shouldn't connect those two ideas so much.

If someone wants to have lower strength, but be really fast, they should be able to do that.

In other words, it feels like you're trying to hard.

[nothingclever]

Though, while Edward's entry doesn't explicitly mention afterimages....I guess NC could answer for sure on whether he can produce them or not.

The ability to make after images might be considered something you should be able to do if you're super agile/fast using sonido by default but if it sounds reasonable I'd say Edward can't make them. Assuming there's a trick to making them he's never bothered to learn it.

[KnightDisciple]

The ability to make after images might be considered something you should be able to do if you're super agile/fast using sonido by default but if it sounds reasonable I'd say Edward can't make them assuming there's a trick to making them.

I would say some level of afterimages is pretty intrinsic.

Maybe Genoveva's better at that "trick", but Edward can still peform it to at least some degree?

[InyutheBeatIs]

I don't want to muck things up further, but I did intend for Pico to be a "fast one" also. The thing was, he is pretty strong and really fast, but if you hit him, he's going to bleed. Basically, glass cannon fragile speedster.

In other news, deadtiming.

[AmberVael]

Your character has much better bala and cero and has four boosts to stats in Resurrección while mine has three. Mine has less strength in relation to his rank but yours has less hierro.

I didn't say you didn't have a good claim to it though.

While I don't really care to continue the context of who has given up more for speed, I do feel compelled to point out that Arcelia's strength is sub-par as well. However, she tends to make up for it (at least in part) with her capability to use Bala with basically all of her attacks.

(And honestly, I never really thought about decreasing the level of one's Cero or Bala. I kind of thought of it as something you just had to have and that was that. Which is why I left Cero at purely average strength- I never pictured Arcelia as really using it).

Anyway, does KD's little idea sound good to you? I'd be willing to go for that.


As for After Images, I just never addressed it with Arcelia. I always imagined her use of Sonido to be pretty discreet though, so I imagine she wouldn't really leave any behind, no matter how fast she went. In fact, I'd imagine she could probably dampen the sound of her movement too (which seems like a pretty fair trade off- infinitely handy illusions for Sonido Silencer).