Evidence that V is male:

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Set down your torches and pitchforks people, this one's lighthearted.

I believe I might have inadvertently stumbled across a theory that may settle the debate on V's gender once and for all. Strangely enough, the key to this heated riddle lies, not with the character's spouse, but with a certain red-headed kleptomaniac within the party.

Some time ago, it came to my attention that the only party member that V seems to have much genuine affection for is Haley. Initially, this confused me to no end as the only one in the party more CG than her is Elan, and V's about as LE as it gets without trading in paladin levels (if you know what I mean). So I did a little homework and found this line under the Rogue's "Trapfinding" class feature:

"Rogues (and only rogues) can use the Disable Device skill to disarm magic traps."

I'm sure some of you have already caught on to where I'm headed with this, but I'll spell it out anyway. The most important words within the line above are the first four and the last three. I shall explain the importance of the last three terms so as to put the first four into context:

Disarm: The relevant definition for the term is: to divest or relieve of hostility, suspicion, etc.; win the affection or approval of; charm: His smile disarmed us.

Magic: V is a Wizard.

Trap: If my theory holds any weight, this should explain the significance of this final term.

It strikes me as a curious co-incidence that the only member of the party with this trait is also the same one with the closest relationship to V despite the fact they they have near polar opposite personalities and motivations.

Even more to the point, if one takes apart the skill needed to use this class feature:

Disable: to make legally incapable; disqualify

Device: instrument, tool

She alone has shown to have this extraordinary trait, and thus is literally the only member of the group able to functionally 'disqualify' V as a 'tool' by way of her ability to 'disarm' 'magic' 'traps'.

[Silverraptor]

[Kaytara]

Putting aside the fact that V's alignment is a subject of heated debate (among those who don't think him some form of Neutral, anyway).... bwuh?

Well, this is one of the more original (and by that I mean entertainingly convoluted) hypotheses. XD

But Occam's Razor totally pwns you. It neatly shaves away any explanation of V and Haley's friendship that isn't tied to the fact that friendships between different people just happen and their personalities in this case aren't that incompatible, anyway, Haley having trusting problems and V being a private person and apparently a very good confidante, never mind that they both have a ruthlessly pragmatic streak and alignment really shouldn't be an obstacle.

[Bibliomancer]

If Haley did this, wouldn't that foster resentment, not friendship? Besides, it's V who can cast Enchantment spells, not Haley.

Also, a trap is specifically defined as a spell that is permanent (or has a very long duration), in a set position with a triggering mechanism besides the caster shouting "NOW!" Examples include Explosive Runes, Sepia Snake Sigil, and the Symbol Spells. Additionally, they all have a negative effect (the most mild of which being stasis for eternity or until the caster comes back).

[Assassin89]

Until V shouts "I am a man/woman/confused about my gender identity" or something to that degree (possibly followed by punching someone in the guts), there still is no definitive proof of V's gender. The only way to determine gender is with the words of the author, but he currently refuses to tell us.

[Random832]

Originally Posted by Kaytara

But Occam's Razor totally pwns you. It neatly shaves away any explanation of V and Haley's friendship that isn't tied to the fact that friendships between different people just happen and their personalities in this case aren't that incompatible, anyway

Nope. Stuff that just happens is not a testable hypothesis with predictive value, and is thus disqualified as a candidate for Occam's Razor.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Silverraptor: You know you were amused.

Kaytara: Occam's Razor eh? Show me an equally valid theory with less moving parts and I'll post a pic of me eating my hat. In any case, I'm glad that you were entertained. Such was the point of the OP.

Bibliomancer: "Magic traps are further divided into spell traps and magic device traps. Magic device traps initiate spell effects when activated, just as wands, rods, rings, and other magic items do."

With V being a magic (i.e. wizard) device (i.e. tool), the loose definition fits as was shown by his billing The Paladin for the use of his spell effects in combat. (Yes, I am aware this whole theory is a series of ridiculous stretches in meaning. )

[Bibliomancer]

Originally Posted by Random832

Nope. Stuff that just happens is not a testable hypothesis with predictive value, and is thus disqualified as a candidate for Occam's Razor.

Just happens in this case is English shorthand for a mutually beneficial social interaction beyond the bounds of what would be required in a work environment developing spontaneously due to compatible personalities.

This can be tested based on, as mentioned, their mutual love of secrets, the fact that they are the only two non-definitely male members of the party, and their above average intelligence scores making them the main two people who can hold an extended conversation besides Roy, who's a bit boring. Also, they both have fashion sense.

As a result, Occam's Razor is still applicable.

Originally Posted by Hadrian_Emrys

Bibliomancer: "Magic traps are further divided into spell traps and magic device traps. Magic device traps initiate spell effects when activated, just as wands, rods, rings, and other magic items do."

With V being a magic (i.e. wizard) device (i.e. tool), the loose definition fits as was shown by his billing The Paladin for the of his spell effects in combat. (Yes, I am aware this whole theory is a series of ridiculous stretches in meaning. )

Fair enough, I was simply fabricating a counter-argument to support my position that V is actually female. This is an amusing logic sequence, though.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Bibliomancer: Yeah... There really is no way to take this theory seriously. I do like the challenge of trying to defend it though. It amuses me to do so almost as much as it did to write the thing in the first place.

[Atreides]

How on earth is V in any way Lawful?

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Atreides: My stance could just be a personal thing but...

"A lawful evil villain methodically takes what he wants within the limits of his code of conduct without regard for whom it hurts. He cares about tradition, loyalty, and order but not about freedom, dignity, or life. He plays by the rules but without mercy or compassion. He is comfortable in a hierarchy and would like to rule, but is willing to serve. He condemns others not according to their actions but according to race, religion, homeland, or social rank. He is loath to break laws or promises."

-it sounds to me quite like a loose personality summery of V.

[Traker]

I Don't see how this argument has any relavince to V's gender. do's someone care to inlighten me?

[Atreides]

Originally Posted by Hadrian_Emrys

Atreides: My stance could just be a personal thing but...

"A lawful evil villain methodically takes what he wants within the limits of his code of conduct without regard for whom it hurts. He cares about tradition, loyalty, and order but not about freedom, dignity, or life. He plays by the rules but without mercy or compassion. He is comfortable in a hierarchy and would like to rule, but is willing to serve. He condemns others not according to their actions but according to race, religion, homeland, or social rank. He is loath to break laws or promises."

-it sounds to me quite like a loose personality summery of V.

Except V constantly breaks the laws and seeks out violence out of personal revenge. He is, by the very definition, chaotic.

[Bibliomancer]

Originally Posted by Traker

I Don't see how this argument has any relavince to V's gender. do's someone care to inlighten me?

Haley, a rogue with ranks in Disable Device, could have "Disabled" V's "Tool," allowing them to become friends and share rooms in spite of the gender gap.

That's the theory anyways, and I counter with this:

How does this give V a fashion sense?

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Actually, the theory is even more out there. V himself is the 'tool' (given his typical behavior) and the 'disabling' aspect lies with her ability to alter said behavior so that he no longer qualifies as a 'tool'. It would make sense that she simply beat the DC on the check by 10 so that she can bypass the trap in question without the benefits of said bypass needing to benefit anyone else. The whole theory essentially uses the game rules out of context to explain a social dynamic in such a way as to possibly amuse.

[Kish]

*observes as a thread started as a humorous thread about Vaarsuvius' gender senesces into a serious thread about Vaarsuvius' alignment*

[Bibliomancer]

Originally Posted by Kish

*observes as a thread started as a humorous thread about Vaarsuvius' gender senesces into a serious thread about Vaarsuvius' alignment*

Not so. 'Tool' like behavior alignment independent (see prefall Miko).

[Mugen Nightgale]

*facepalm*

[Ninja]

Okay, now, can anyone translate this in Common, or anything that makes sense to us that do not know D&D and TVTropes by heart?

[waterpenguin43]

I hate to shove the MBTI into this, but V's and Haley's personality types (in my opinion), can be found here:
V's
Haley's
I believe you can guess the compatibility of them, no?

[factotum]

Originally Posted by Mugen Nightgale

*facepalm*

If you're that disgusted with the thread, why did you resurrect it from two days ago?

[derfenrirwolv]

... can anyone besides the original poster point out how this is supposed to make any sense at all?

[Ninja]

Originally Posted by factotum

If you're that disgusted with the thread, why did you resurrect it from two days ago?

He was just too god-damn impressed with my facepalming (follow the spoiler in the sig).

[Zeful]

Okay for people that don't get the OP.

A trap (besides the obvious) is a reference to very effeminate man dressed as a woman to the point where many people including In-universe characters do not know that the character is not a woman. This leads to varying levels of shock and disgust when the Character's real gender is revealed.

Haley is a Rogue who, through the use of the ability "Trapfinding" can find magic traps. V is a wizard that may or may not be a "Trap". If V is a "trap" Haley's Trapfinding will tell her, if V's not (which would require a defined gender) then Trapfinding won't work. Trapfinding also allows her to disarm traps. Thus Haley knows V's gender and her statements are correct about the subject.

[Haven]

OP, you made me laugh, heartily.

[Berserk Monk]

Originally Posted by Silverraptor

Seconded.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

For those of you who get it: *high five*

This isn't a serious theory in the least, even though it is no more (or less) valid than any other presented as the gender of the character has been officially ret-conned into 'ambiguous' for the sake of comedic value.

For those who are having a hard time keeping up with the rambling logic I'll add to Zeful's explanation some:

Haley knows V's gender. Period. Due to her 'trapfinding' class ability, she alone can identify both magical and epic 'traps'.

Furthermore, I propose that V IS a trap due to Haley's skill in Disable Device allowing her to bypass the wizard's typical 'tool'-like behavior pattern so as to have a genuinely affectionate interpersonal relationship with him. This aspect of the theory is based entirely on circumstantial evidence, and really carries little weight but (I think) decent comedic value as it plays on a thematically appropriate distortion of the rules.

That said, taking the OP seriously will accomplish little more than taking Voltaire's 'Candide' at face value.

[Gametime]

This is the greatest gender thread ever created.

I came for the pun, I stayed for the masses of people who obviously skimmed the first post and proceeded to argue the point without noticing the *woosh* of the joke flying over their heads.

[Qubanz]

Is there actually anyone who considers V female? And if so why?

Why is this issue actually even a mystery? V's clearly male. (And elves in the OOTS universe DO Have males and females, because since there are half-elves they are a biological sister species to humans. (Not to mention that Pompey the half-elf is male.) and science DOES work in the OOTS universe (the Titanium and Chlorine elementals bit anyone?) So a sister species can't biologically have a completely different way of reproduction, it's impossible.

Plus we also know that V was meant to have a gender at the start and at the start he's referred to as V-man. His behaviour is masculine too. V's a guy plain as daylight. I don't even see why anyone ever got confused in the first place with him. Does he have stickboobs? Nope.


It's the same with the Monster in the Dark. He's clearly a Tarrasque. Because it's either that or a homebrewn monster, and the latter was ruled out because he was said to be something 'recognizable.' Besides if he was a homebrewn monster he might as well be a koozebanian snarffleflumpher.


And whilst I'm on a roll. Tom Bombadil is a nature spirit, Tolkien pretty much said so in his letters. Irrelevant to this discussion, but I never saw why people argued about THAT either, and it came to mind.

[Thor Person Guy]

Originally Posted by Qubanz

Is there actually anyone who considers V female? And if so why?

Well, let's look at what we know: S/he has some fashion sense, was grabbed by Belkar on NYE (Admittedly, he was quite drunk), Celia brought hir shopping, and, as previously mentioned, Haley prefers rooming with hir.

Originally Posted by Qubanz

Plus we also know that V was meant to have a gender at the start and at the start he's referred to as V-man. His behavior is masculine too. V's a guy plain as daylight. I don't even see why anyone ever got confused in the first place with him. Does he have stickboobs? Nope.

2 things:
1. Owned.
2. While it's true that V doesn't have stickboobs, it's also true that hir mate doesn't have them either.