LGBTitp 4: We are family

[LXH]

It's not quite that severe, but it is a residual presence descended from mental health guidelines that are as old as the dead guy they're named after. I think most people will get a good feel for where their therapist stands on the issue within a few sessions and eventually decide to open up anyway. Some just come in with the prepared statements because they know what they want, they want it badly, and they don't want to risk having some quack deny them. All because of a completely arbitrary bias in favor of early onset cases over those who became cognizant relatively later in life.

I honestly think the therapy requirement itself is completely outdated. It was implemented generations ago when there was no internet, no popularization of trans information, so people really did have to come in and spend significant amounts of time with a therapist to hammer out just what the hell is going on. Now people go in who are well adjusted and clear eyed, and they know exactly what they need to alleviate their depression and anxiety. The rest is, as I said, sitting around staring at another person while you satisfy the mental health community's requirements.

And not to be overly cynical, but it's not surprising that the people who both set and profit off the guidelines are going to force you into that chair for a maximum amount of time. I spent many thousands of dollars talking about absolutely nothing.

[Serpentine]

Originally Posted by LXH

...it's slightly privileged to suggest they should risk the treatment they need for the sake of anyone else's understanding.

I don't disagree with everything else you're saying, but in this case increased understanding can only benefit the trans community, surely. Increased understanding = better treatment (medical and general). Wouldn't it?

[Jacklu]

I really hate to be "that guy" yet again. This discussion seems to be shifting uncomfortably close to real world politics and away from LGBT support and conversation. =/ Is there anyway it could be continued in its own thread or via PMs maybe? Again, I'm really really really sorry for being the mean, touchy person who gets uncomfortable when arguments start to get heated. =/ T_T I also realize that more than likely the conversation is "already wrapped up" once again. =/

On the subject of actually contributing to the thread in a meaningful way: My mother has begun making comments to me regarding the way I act. Stuff that on its own isn't troubling, but which, to me, indicates a level of concern on her part for my behavior. AKA: I think I might be starting to "give myself away" with how I am acting. Which concerns me, my home and family situation being what it is. =/

[Coidzor]

What sort of things is she picking up on to be concerned about?

[golentan]

Originally Posted by Jacklu

On the subject of actually contributing to the thread in a meaningful way: My mother has begun making comments to me regarding the way I act. Stuff that on its own isn't troubling, but which, to me, indicates a level of concern on her part for my behavior. AKA: I think I might be starting to "give myself away" with how I am acting. Which concerns me, my home and family situation being what it is. =/

Uh-oh?

I know this might sound like a really bad suggestion, but maybe go see a movie with an opposite sex friend. You can pass it off to your family as a date, and never have to mention the fact to the other person (though if you have someone you can trust, complicity in selling it can help).

I don't generally like telling people to pretend to be something they're not, but sometimes you've got to know when to fold 'em. And I trust you know your circumstances better than I.

[Jacklu]

That would help if my secret secret was being gay. In this case, it is the fact that I have been slowly shifting to a more feminine behavior pattern than usual. The kind of thing I have trained myself my entire life not to do. =/ Guess I'm becoming too comfortable with myself to keep the act up perfectly anymore. T_T

[golentan]

Sorry, Jacklu. I guess I just really don't understand then.

Try explaining, and maybe I can give better advice. Okay, probably not given that I'm me, but someone can.

Edit: I mean, I know (or rather, believe I remember) you identify as genderqueer and are in a potentially nasty local situation. But that's all I recall.

[Jacklu]

Originally Posted by golentan

Edit: I mean, I know (or rather, believe I remember) you identify as genderqueer and are in a potentially nasty local situation. But that's all I recall.

That's it in a nutshell. My problem lies in that through online interactions with people I have become much more comfortable with myself. So much so that it is starting to bleed through and has been slipping into my RL interactions with people. And while this would generally be regarded as a good thing, I am still not really ready to come out to my family. I'm very worried that I'm going to slip up and out myself on accident if I'm not careful. =/

[golentan]

Well, as I've said before I can't really help identity problems.

If coming out ain't an option, maybe join the football team? I joined sports because not only do people stop questioning your sexuality, you also get to spend time in the showers with attractive fellows who you just spent the afternoon wrestling with, and slapping someone's backside is a socially acceptable greeting suddenly.

...

Society is really, really weird you know that? And on that note, I turn the forum over to anyone who actually has more than a rudimentary understanding of basic human emotion.

[Rettu Skcollob]

Originally Posted by golentan

Well, as I've said before I can't really help identity problems.

If coming out ain't an option, maybe join the football team? I joined sports because not only do people stop questioning your sexuality, you also get to spend time in the showers with attractive fellows who you just spent the afternoon wrestling with, and slapping someone's backside is a socially acceptable greeting suddenly.

...

Hold on, what the hell, why wasn't I told about this?

[golentan]

Originally Posted by Rettu Skcollob

Hold on, what the hell, why wasn't I told about this?

It twue!

Sports teams tend to be monosex, yeah? And shower after practice (depending on a few factors, but public showers are common in my area). For some reason, slapping is considered a "RAH! GO TEAM!" when sending someone onto the field thing rather than an attempt to feel people up. Sports players tend to be in better shape, and practice can get very close and personal. And when was the last time you heard someone say "I hear he's gay" about the quarterback? (Small exception for my high school team, where the quarterback beat in some heads for gaybashing his boyfriend. But until that incident...)

[Rettu Skcollob]

Originally Posted by golentan

It twue!

Sports teams tend to be monosex, yeah? And shower after practice (depending on a few factors, but public showers are common in my area). For some reason, slapping is considered a "RAH! GO TEAM!" when sending someone onto the field thing rather than an attempt to feel people up. Sports players tend to be in better shape, and practice can get very close and personal. And when was the last time you heard someone say "I hear he's gay" about the quarterback? (Small exception for my high school team, where the quarterback beat in some heads for gaybashing his boyfriend. But until that incident...)

Damn... All those opportunities missed. And all the sports teams I've been in over the years...

[golentan]

Originally Posted by Rettu Skcollob

Damn... All those opportunities missed. And all the sports teams I've been in over the years...

Hold on. Are you honestly telling me you never saw anything homoerotic in modern sports culture? It seemed to be sublimated as team bonding, but even so...

But yeah. Not many opportunities so much as a mechanism for keeping things close to the vest while still getting your physicality on. If you start blatantly hitting on team members the cat's pretty much out of the bag whether you're on the team or not.

I feel the same way about straight guys taking dance classes (What's the male/female ratio? And how much physical contact is there by order of the instructor? And you get to be seen as a really sensitive guy...)

[LXH]

Originally Posted by Serpentine

I don't disagree with everything else you're saying, but in this case increased understanding can only benefit the trans community, surely. Increased understanding = better treatment (medical and general). Wouldn't it?

Did I say otherwise? I just don't think it's appropriate for a person who has nothing to lose to tell someone to risk the treatment they need. Of course ultimate understanding helps more in the long term, but if that was going to happen through anecdotal confirmation, we'd all be holding hands together singing kumbaya by now. Needs more brain studies!

[Serpentine]

I'll just say I disagree (at least if we replace "tell someone" with the original "suggest"), and leave it at that, eh?

[Ichneumon]

Although I wouldn't think lying is a good idea and possibly harmful, I do agree with LXH on this.

[Ostien]

To Anon: I'd like to throw out some advice for the anon with the gender identity question. It seems you feel trans but are looking around and having the thought that you may "not be trans enough" This is just a shot in the dark and may not apply to you.

There does seem to be a tension in the trans community and the genderqueer community. I'm going to be as careful saying this as I can. There does seem to be a large part of the trans community that propagates this idea that if you don't transition or take hormones you are not really trans. This has the effect of excluding people who are transgender and making them feel uncomfortable.

I have felt this, as someone who is genderqueer and have met many people in genderqueer groups that have had similar experiences of feeling "not trans enough." By both trans and non trans communities. While you explore your gender identity don't feel pressured to do things because you feel you have to to be accepted.

I don't want to leave with making it seem like I'm calling out the trans community as a whole because that is not what I am doing, the vast majority of trans communities are inclusive of people of a broad range of transgender and don't exhort social pressure. I am however saying that a few bad experiences can sour the whole view for some people and make them feel trapped with no community to turn to. And if this is not from direct experiences it may be a view of the trans community you may have encountered either from queer or non-queer communities.

To anon, your feelings are important, and it is important to run with them but you should not feel pressured into one persons conception of trans. Explore these feeling and see where they take you, boldly go! I'd suggest going to a LGBTQ meeting or a trans or genderqueer meet up. There may be some in your area and they can be a blast!

Again just trying to help, may not apply to anon. This was my two cents for anon. Don't want to step on anyone else.

[LXH]

I don't want to leave with making it seem like I'm calling out the trans community as a whole because that is not what I am doing, the vast majority of trans communities are inclusive of people of a broad range of transgender and don't exhort social pressure. I am however saying that a few bad experiences can sour the whole view for some people and make them feel trapped with no community to turn to. And if this is not from direct experiences it may be a view of the trans community you may have encountered either from queer or non-queer communities.

Agree with everything you said, but the quoted part in particular is something that has bothered me for a while. Heteronormative people look at gay people and ask, "why do they need to have what we have?" Gay people look at trans people and ask, "why are you even grouped with us?" Trans people look at genderqueer people and say, "nuh uh, honey. It's hard enough to explain without you muddying it all up even more."

And then we all get s**t on.

[Ostien]

LXH, So let me get you straight (oh the lulz), you are just agreeing about the sometimes counterproductive divisions in the LGBTQ community and the fact that it tends to divide and hurt us all? Just want to make sure I'm not reading my thoughts into yours.

If so, yeah this part of the LGBTQ communities dynamic you illustrated has also bothered me. Though I do understand where many are coming from. Trans is hard to explain without us genderqueers genderf**king it up. I understand, but its not like I particularly like it.

Mainly just posting to clarify for myself.

[LXH]

Originally Posted by Ostien

LXH, So let me get you straight (oh the lulz), you are just agreeing about the sometimes counterproductive divisions in the LGBTQ community and the fact that it tends to divide and hurt us all? Just want to make sure I'm not reading my thoughts into yours.

If so, yeah this part of the LGBTQ communities dynamic you illustrated has also bothered me. Though I do understand where many are coming from. Trans is hard to explain without us genderqueers genderf**king it up. I understand, but its not like I particularly like it.

Mainly just posting to clarify for myself.

No, I agreed with your entire post because it's important to make sure the genderqueer aspect is represented for advice giving purposes. I just highlighted that one particular part because it's especially bothersome to me.

[Kneenibble]

Originally Posted by golentan

Well, as I've said before I can't really help identity problems.

If coming out ain't an option, maybe join the football team? I joined sports because not only do people stop questioning your sexuality, you also get to spend time in the showers with attractive fellows who you just spent the afternoon wrestling with, and slapping someone's backside is a socially acceptable greeting suddenly.

Material delights this scrawny drama student only ever dreamed about.

(adult) Acting classes and dance classes have about 3-1 female-male ratio, and maybe I just got unlucky, but a surprisingly low quotient of gay guys. I was one of two throughout my University theatre training career, and the other guy, while an awesome human being, was a princess with a boyfriend.

And when I know a guy is straight, I just can't give myself license to enjoy something like contact improv with him on that level. Y'know? It's not fair to him. I'm not that kind of gay guy. Unprofessional.

But we never had public showers...
*eyes glaze over*

[Cobra_Ikari]

Originally Posted by Kneenibble

Material delights this scrawny drama student only ever dreamed about.

(adult) Acting classes and dance classes have about 3-1 female-male ratio, and maybe I just got unlucky, but a surprisingly low quotient of gay guys. I was one of two throughout my University theatre training career, and the other guy, while an awesome human being, was a princess with a boyfriend.

And when I know a guy is straight, I just can't give myself license to enjoy something like contact improv with him on that level. Y'know? It's not fair to him. I'm not that kind of gay guy. Unprofessional.

But we never had public showers...
*eyes glaze over*

*pokepoke*

*sighs*...we lost him. *drags off to the public showers*

[Nameless]

Originally Posted by Cobra_Ikari

*pokepoke*

*sighs*...we lost him. *drags off to the public showers*

I fell off my chair lawling.

[Stormthorn]

So, the Tubers seem to be in a perpetual argument in one small corner of youtube over the sex of username 17586063.

I was wondering what the people of this most gender and sex diverse thread think.
I personaly dont care much. As long as he/she has a cute face, i would be all on that. I mean, listen! I now understand why people want to boink rockstars. The power of music is a sexual force that transcends all bounds.

Well, for me at least. That solo from that link that starts around 2:10. You see that? You hear it? The first time i heard it on the radio tears welled up in my eyes.

[MickJay]

Originally Posted by Stormthorn

I personaly dont care much. As long as he/she has a cute face, i would be all on that. I mean, listen! I now understand why people want to boink rockstars. The power of music is a sexual force that transcends all bounds.

See, it's comments like that that give us bisexuals a bad rep. Not that I don't agree with you 100%, but at least I don't write about it in such a blatant manner. Wait... damn it!

Anyway, no idea about the gender, my guess is that a guy with these hands (which, on their own, I'd say belong to a guy) would have slightly skinnier legs, but it's really hard to tell. Could be either.

[Jacklu]

The question I would ask is if it even matters. I mean, unless you feel uncomfortable with the idea of accidentally ogling a guy, in which case don't ogling things you see on the internet, it shouldn't really matter guy or girl. In other news, there is no other news.

[mercurymaline]

The question I would ask is why it has to be one or the other.

[MickJay]

That's a good question, my answer would be that it doesn't have to be, but is quite likely, especially if you consider the relative popularity of crossdressing that is generally unrelated to difficulties with determining one's own sex/gender (or lack of these) among young Japanese males.

[Stormthorn]

Originally Posted by mercurymaline

The question I would ask is why it has to be one or the other.

The odds of the person being a hermaphrodite are rather low.

I mean, unless you feel uncomfortable with the idea of accidentally ogling a guy, in which case don't ogling things you see on the internet, it shouldn't really matter guy or girl.

I think my above post makes it clear im not afraid of that. Im willing to ogle this guy:

See, it's comments like that that give us bisexuals a bad rep.

No, its comments like this:
"On what principled grounds could the advocates of same-sex marriage oppose the marriage of two consenting brothers? How could they explain why we ought to deny a marriage license to a bisexual who wants to marry two people?"
Italics mine.

This of course isnt just insulting to bisexuals. But also to gay people, polygamists, and incestous couples. It was written, btw, by William J. Bennett. I am in no way advicing you to get his contact info and flame him.

[Coidzor]

On this vein... Have I shared this with the thread yet or someone else have already?

Also, that guy is sort of odd looking in the face. Sort of... just weird for either a man or a woman to have that face.

God that face is weird.

So WEIRD.

What is it about that face that's so weird?

My friend says it's the look of trying too hard. That sounds about right to me, but I'm a bit of a lightweight.

Oh... yes, the link! Here you are! http://qntm.org/?gay