Kratos vs The Norse Pantheon

[Kyouhen]

So, Kratos, the ultimate hardcore murder machine. Capable of taking on and slaughtering the entire Greek pantheon. Easily a warrior of epic proportions and one of the most badass guys around.

I'll take the time now to point out that I have yet to play the God of War games, so I may be somewhat mistaken with some of my points.

A thought occurred to me the other day, just how hardcore can Kratos really be? Sure, he kills off all the Greek gods, but just how many members of that pantheon can put up a proper fight against the man who earned his title as God of War?

Enter the Norse Pantheon. An entire set of gods who live for battle, regardless of what their proper godly domain may be. Gods who believe that in the end times they shall each face their perfect opponent in a battle to the death.

So the question I have for you, Playgrounders, is who would win in a battle between Kratos and the Norse gods. We will assume conditions similar to those in the God of War games, specifically that he will not have to fight more than one of the Norse gods at any given time but each of the Norse gods are fighting in their home domains.

Personally I'm going to side with the Norse gods on this. Based on what I know about them in martial combat the less combat-oriented gods could take on most members of the Greek pantheon without much trouble, while Odin and his sons would probably laugh at Zeus before giving him a royal beat-down. Based on this, I'd assume that the lesser Norse gods would give Kratos a run for his money while the bigger ones would beat him to a bloody pulp.

What say the rest of you?

[The Demented One]

I'm pretty sure that the Norse Gods would be the same class of beings as Greek Gods, if you're trying to establish some kind of setting where they co-exist. From that, I imagine Kratos would be about as good up against them as he would against the Olympians.

[deuxhero]

Yeah the Norse gods were stronger, but I wouldn't say they were smarter (Chain a dragon that is going to kill you at Ragnarok to your throne so it can break free and kill you at Ragnarok? BRILLIANT!).

[TSGames]

Yeah the Norse gods were stronger, but I wouldn't say they were smarter (Chain a dragon that is going to kill you at Ragnarok to your throne so it can break free and kill you at Ragnarok? BRILLIANT!).

I wouldn't chalk that up to lack of brains so much as a very good expression of part of the religion's philosophy/psychology.

Actually, for exactly that reason, I go with the Norse gods. Ragnarok can't happen if all the gods are killed, yet Ragnarok must and is going to happen, so Kratos must loose.

Then again, maybe Kratos is just more badass than all the laws that bind creation and the gods...so who knows...

[Deca]

You mean the Norse Gods who have been tricked by human magicians before? They must be real powerful.

[Dervag]

Power and cunning are not the same thing.

I'd say that Kratos would do quite well, but maybe not as well. By and large, the Norse gods were a more badass bunch on an individual basis, with less focus on "I am the personification of Blah!" and a bit more on "I can kick your ass." The Greek gods were incredibly powerful, make no mistake, but a lot of that power wouldn't translate into stuff Kratos would confront directly in trying to kill them.

Also, the Norse gods have Loki, who generally (in the mythos as a whole) supports the Aesir against decisive threats like Kratos, and might very well be able to mislead Kratos into getting himself killed- Kratos isn't too bright.

[chiasaur11]

One word.

One.

Volstagg.

No ordinary foe is worthy of his great abilities!

[kpenguin]

Meh. I don't see Kratos as being all that badass but more the GoW gods being weaksauce.

I don't see Kratos taking on, for instance, the Marvel version of the INCREDIBLE HERCULES all that easy.

[Deca]

Meh. I don't see Kratos as being all that badass but more the GoW gods being weaksauce.

I don't see Kratos taking on, for instance, the Marvel version of the INCREDIBLE HERCULES all that easy.

Of course Kratos would get has ass handed to him in that fight. Marvel Gods are pretty cosmic in power.

[chiasaur11]

Of course Kratos would get has ass handed to him in that fight. Marvel Gods are pretty cosmic in power.

Beta Ray Bill, f'rinstance, could kick him along the spiral arm while giving a speech about being a man when dealing with your problems, rather than a whiny baby.

The spiral arm bit? Not a figure of speech. Marvel Thor's oathbrother doesn't "do" small scale. Dude fought a guy with infinite strength and it still took below the belt punching AND taking away his hammer to beat him.

And he was back up ready to fight again remarkably quick.

[Deca]

Beta Ray Bill, f'rinstance, could kick him along the spiral arm while giving a speech about being a man when dealing with your problems, rather than a whiny baby.

The spiral arm bit? Not a figure of speech. Marvel Thor's oathbrother doesn't "do" small scale. Dude fought a guy with infinite strength and it still took below the belt punching AND taking away his hammer to beat him.

And he was back up ready to fight again remarkably quick.

Beta Ray Bill isn't really a good example as he isn't a Marvel God. He's just an alien robot imbued with power given to him by a Marvel God.

Thor can do pretty much the same stuff and has a more legitimate claim to being part of the Norse Pantheon.

[Graymayre]

Kratos once again.

He kills Gods, that is his job. He has never failed to survive the ire of a God and destroy it. Greek Gods die much less frequently than Norse Gods. I find it unlikely that Kratos would not be able to murder a pantheon that has a higher deathrate than most cities.

Seriously, it's like asking whether or not Sherlock Holmes will be able to solve a case given to him. He has such a ridiculously high level of success in cases that it would be foolish to not put your bet on him. Nothing short of a monotheistic deity even stands a chance against Kratos.

[SilverSheriff]

Nothing short of a monotheistic deity even stands a chance against Kratos.

You are under-estimating how awesome Odin is.

[chiasaur11]

You are under-estimating how awesome Odin is.

And, for that matter, Thor.

He nearly drank THE OCEAN. Which was somehow all alcohol when he was drinking it.

Besides, Odin's all sneaky and such.

[Graymayre]

And, for that matter, Thor.

He nearly drank THE OCEAN. Which was somehow all alcohol when he was drinking it.

Besides, Odin's all sneaky and such.

WOOOOoooo

Poseiden is the ocean.

Odin gets killed by a wolf, A WOLF.

(speaking of which, an awesome fight would be Fenrir and Kratos. I can definitely see both of them being a challenge for each other)

[Fan]

WOOOOoooo

Poseiden is the ocean.

Odin gets killed by a wolf, A WOLF.

(speaking of which, an awesome fight would be Fenrir and Kratos. I can definitely see both of them being a challenge for each other)

Said Wolf is larger than Leviathan... and capable of killing the entire Pantheon.

Posideon is also not the Ocean. He was spawned from Rhea and Saturn having a baby together.

Your argument sets forward the precedent of "Did not do the research".

[Graymayre]

Said Wolf is larger than Leviathan... and capable of killing the entire Pantheon.

Your argument sets forward the precedent of "Did not do the research".

How does that mean that Kratos does nothing to it? Also if I recall Fenrir was killed.

"Poseiden is that Ocean" as in complete mastery of it. Saying it the way I did was more for weight than anything. I know how badass Fenrir is, that's why I said it would be a great fight against kratos.

[Fan]

How does that mean that Kratos does nothing to it?

I never said that.. Where are you getting these statements?

However, Odin kills Kratos simply because his death has already been decided.. He will be killed by Fenrir. No matter what. They have TRIED to stop it (and oh how they have!), but it happens no matter what.

Ergo. Odin has Plot Power, and Pre Cog Meta Game Power.. Kratos loses due to not having plot on his side now.

[SilverSheriff]

Besides, Odin's all sneaky and such.

Not to mention that he is missing an eye.

He will be killed by Fenrir. No matter what. They have TRIED to stop it (and oh how they have!), but it happens no matter what.

And this.

[d3vil]

And, for that matter, Thor.

He nearly drank THE OCEAN. Which was somehow all alcohol when he was drinking it.

Besides, Odin's all sneaky and such.

So Odin crafts the epic rune "Kratos to Vodka" and challenges Thor to a drinking contest?

Seriously, the OP said:

We will assume conditions similar to those in the God of War games, specifically that he will not have to fight more than one of the Norse gods at any given time but each of the Norse gods are fighting in their home domains.

So of course, Kratos wins. A GoW where Kratos doesnt win, doesnt exist, period. Maybe he gets kicked from Yggdrasil and acquires the ultra-mega-viking helmet whilest using the midgard snake as a whip, smashing the roots of the worldtree, thus wreaking havoc upon midgard an valhalla, and stuff.

[Graymayre]

I never said that.. Where are you getting these statements?

However, Odin kills Kratos simply because his death has already been decided.. He will be killed by Fenrir. No matter what. They have TRIED to stop it (and oh how they have!), but it happens no matter what.

Ergo. Odin has Plot Power, and Pre Cog Meta Game Power.. Kratos loses due to not having plot on his side now.

That is good.

Unless Kratos finds a magic hickamabob that nullifies Odin's predestination (something I can definitely see happening) he's in a heap of trouble.

BUT, the op states that the fights are occuring in a God of War style. If predestination is not part of the equation (as OP did not elaborate on) I remain steadfast on my standing that there is no chance of Kratos losing.

Said Wolf is larger than Leviathan... and capable of killing the entire Pantheon.

Your argument sets forward the precedent of "Did not do the research".

Argument is not specified. It could be my entire post, and the ambiguity is what confuses it into meaning that kratos cannot take on fenrir.

[Icewalker]

I think we have to leave Ragnarok as destiny out of the picture or the discussion ends at 'Æsir have predetermined deaths, therefore cannot lose.'

With that discounted though, I think in a straight fight one at a time over the course of a large adventure, Kratos could take each individual Æsir. However, Loki and Odin, especially working together, would easily be able to trick Kratos into some horrible demise, and Loki does work with the other Æsir when pressured.

Of course, tricking Kratos into some horrible demise doesn't seem to work, most of the time. I mean, they chuck him into Hell (or in this case, Hel) ALL the time to little effect. So, hey, who knows.

[Kyouhen]

So of course, Kratos wins. A GoW where Kratos doesnt win, doesnt exist, period. Maybe he gets kicked from Yggdrasil and acquires the ultra-mega-viking helmet whilest using the midgard snake as a whip, smashing the roots of the worldtree, thus wreaking havoc upon midgard an valhalla, and stuff.

Technically I was referring to the fact that Kratos would be engaging each of the gods in single combat, as I don't believe he fights multiple gods at once in GoW. I wasn't referring to it as being a GoW where Kratos dies.

...Though that would be a rather interesting game...

Unless Kratos finds a magic hickamabob that nullifies Odin's predestination (something I can definitely see happening) he's in a heap of trouble.

It's less a case of "Odin can see the future" and more a case of "Odin's future has been fortold." It's the same deal with all the Norse gods actually. They all know when Ragnarok rolls around they get to fight their ultimate foe and die horribly doing so.

[SilverSheriff]

so far the Vibe I'm getting from this thread is 'God of War is awesome and Kratos the video-game character will smash a pantheon where most of them have already had their deaths predicted and will not die any other way.

The Aesir are also not very likely to fall for the 'Divide and conquer' strategy knowing that Kratos pulled that one with their neighbors to the south.

[Kyouhen]

I think we have to leave Ragnarok as destiny out of the picture or the discussion ends at 'Æsir have predetermined deaths, therefore cannot lose.'

This is probably the way we should be looking at this. This isn't a God of War game, so Kratos doesn't automatically win for PLOT!. We should take away the same power for the Norse gods too. Though letting the gods conspire against Kratos between fights would still be allowed, he seems to be good at dealing with things like that.

[Lord Fullbladder, Master of Goblins]

So, wouldn't Kratos just kill Fenrir, and come back with a bunch of Fenrir's teeth and claws attached to chains, and probably wearing part of its hide, and smacks Odin around with those?

After Fenrir eats the Head of Helios, of course.

[Graymayre]

The norse timeline is set into stone yes. But it is set in a world WITHOUT KRATOS. The timeline you guys are working with is outdated

If a being like Kratos was in the stream of Norse time, don't you think that the history would be altered? (if say he was considered a native to the plane). If Kratos wasn't capable of killing the gods because the time says that he never did it, then how is he capable of having the fight in the first place or even existing?

This can only mean that, since Kratos is existing and is capable of fighting the Norse Gods in this vs. situation, then he is either part of the time stream (and thus the history would be altered to allow his existence) or Kratos is a seperate entity unbarred by the restrictions of their universe's predestination. If the former we do not know whether or not he can kill the Gods. Maybe it says he will, maybe not.

If the latter, then it doesn't matter. He kills the gods because history cannot defy him

He defies history.

[ZeroNumerous]

Seriously, it's like asking whether or not Sherlock Holmes will be able to solve a case given to him. He has such a ridiculously high level of success in cases that it would be foolish to not put your bet on him. Nothing short of a monotheistic deity even stands a chance against Kratos.

I think you give Kratos far too much credit. The biggest creature that Kratos has slain was a titan. A 'mere' 500 feet tall humanoid. Thor killed Jormungandr, the World Serpent, single-handedly. The World Serpent is named so because it encircles the entire world. Thor killed it with a sledge hammer, his guts and a fiery passion. Kratos killed a mere Titan with magic, the power of Friendship and more magic.

Thor and Kratos aren't even in the same league. And Thor is one of the minor deities. Lets not even get into Freyr, who is invincible with his sword, or Tyr, who had his hand bitten off by Fenrir and did not flinch.

[chiasaur11]

I think you give Kratos far too much credit. The biggest creature that Kratos has slain was a titan. A 'mere' 500 feet tall humanoid. Thor killed Jormungandr, the World Serpent, single-handedly. The World Serpent is named so because it encircles the entire world. Thor killed it with a sledge hammer, his guts and a fiery passion. Kratos killed a mere Titan with magic, the power of Friendship and more magic.

Thor and Kratos aren't even in the same league. And Thor is one of the minor deities. Lets not even get into Freyr, who is invincible with his sword, or Tyr, who had his hand bitten off by Fenrir and did not flinch.

And then there's Skurge.

He stood alone at Gjallerbru.

And that answer is enough.

Man, Simonson. Best Norse myth stuff since the Vikings? Keep in mind that, yes. That is saying a lot.

[kpenguin]

Alternatively, Odin has Loki sneak around and throw a stick wherever Kratos goes, yelling "I dedicate this battle to Odin" each time.

Ultimately, I think we need to ask ourselves, what exactly GoW conditions means. I mean, Kratos is the protaganist of the GoW series. Sorta predestined to win every time.

...

Wait. Predestined. That's right, Kratos follows destiny for all life. That is, the destiny set down by the game designer. And every time he falls off the rails of that destiny, ie. loses, he goes again until he completes destiny.

This indicates that Kratos doesn't have the ability to overcome fate, thus would be unable to overcome the fact that the Norse Pantheon is predestined to die at Ragnarok.

Also...

Seriously, it's like asking whether or not Sherlock Holmes will be able to solve a case given to him.

A Scandal in Bohemia. That is all.