Naruto Manga thread (Spoilers)

[Irbis]

Meanwhile, Naruto keeps on having sharp limitations put on how he can use the powerups he gets that makes them much harder to use than anything Team Evil has access to.

Except his powerups are far larger Deus Ex Machinas than these of Team Evil combined. These guys at least worked for them, coming close to death, they didn't have cheeky father who read the script and managed to invent dozen perfect power-up-jutsus in five minutes.

[BlackDragonKing]

Except his powerups are far larger Deus Ex Machinas than these of Team Evil combined. These guys at least worked for them, coming close to death, they didn't have cheeky father who read the script and managed to invent dozen perfect power-up-jutsus in five minutes.

Sasuke worked for his powers.

Right.

My burning hatred of all things Uchiha aside, Sasuke is only powerful because of his surname. Take it away and he's a thoroughly mediocre ninja with some lightning tricks. Naruto minus his lineage and the kyuubi is still a toad sage.

Also, I wouldn't say Naruto can out DEM Madara, given that Madara's eyes basically mean he is god as long as he can perform surgery after every fight.

[Turalisj]

Naruto minus his lineage and the kyuubi is still a toad sage

Naruto minus his lineage and kyuubi, even BEFORE toad sage, still has an awesome amount of chakra. According to Jiraiya at least.

This was said back when the Pervy Sage was trying to teach Naruto not to rely on the kyuubi's power all the time. So no, I'm not going to dig through several hundred chapters to find it.

[Lurkmoar]

Except his powerups are far larger Deus Ex Machinas than these of Team Evil combined. These guys at least worked for them, coming close to death, they didn't have cheeky father who read the script and managed to invent dozen perfect power-up-jutsus in five minutes.

Where the hell did Sasuke's Hawk Summon come from?! Even Madara seemed surprised about that one!

[Traab]

There is one thing though, that is garenteed. If kishi wants to, this battle may last till 2012 before he finishes it. Oh sure the initial assault will be over quick, but with that many names to go through, each likely getting their own memorable battle, well, its going to take awhile. Hell, the original naruto/garra chunin exam grudge match took what, 6 episodes from start to finish of the anime? Especially if you include the entire lead up of naruto and crew heading after garra and crew. Im not saying it WILL take forever, just that it easily could. He may be trying to buy himself a year to think over where the hell his story is going to end up.

Honestly, I lost track of the manga around the whole big reveal of kushina being a former vessel and all that crap. A lot of the shippuden era stuff bugged the hell out of me. Mainly how sasuke seemed to get a new powerup every time they saw him. Yet another awesome eye skill with little downside, while naruto scrapes by with self mutilating trump cards that frankly suck in comparison, and wins through sheer refusal to lay down and finish bleeding to death. It was one thing when he was a freaking new genin. Its embarrassing after several years of training.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Naruto minus his lineage and kyuubi, even BEFORE toad sage, still has an awesome amount of chakra. According to Jiraiya at least.

Someone w/o their lineage doesn't exist... So, yeah w/o the Kyuubi makes sense.

[Turalisj]

Someone w/o their lineage doesn't exist... So, yeah w/o the Kyuubi makes sense.

You know what I meant. Minus lineage as in not being the son of the fourth hokage.

[BlackDragonKing]

There is one thing though, that is garenteed. If kishi wants to, this battle may last till 2012 before he finishes it. Oh sure the initial assault will be over quick, but with that many names to go through, each likely getting their own memorable battle, well, its going to take awhile. Hell, the original naruto/garra chunin exam grudge match took what, 6 episodes from start to finish of the anime? Especially if you include the entire lead up of naruto and crew heading after garra and crew. Im not saying it WILL take forever, just that it easily could. He may be trying to buy himself a year to think over where the hell his story is going to end up.

Honestly, I lost track of the manga around the whole big reveal of kushina being a former vessel and all that crap. A lot of the shippuden era stuff bugged the hell out of me. Mainly how sasuke seemed to get a new powerup every time they saw him. Yet another awesome eye skill with little downside, while naruto scrapes by with self mutilating trump cards that frankly suck in comparison, and wins through sheer refusal to lay down and finish bleeding to death. It was one thing when he was a freaking new genin. Its embarrassing after several years of training.

How about still being unable to use his signature move properly after three years of knowing it? The Rasenshuriken is one thing, but remaining baffled by the one-handed Rasengan while Kakashi can make one easily as a demonstration is even more embarrassing.

[AtlanteanTroll]

You know what I meant. Minus lineage as in not being the son of the fourth hokage.

I don't see how that'd change anything.

[Traab]

How about still being unable to use his signature move properly after three years of knowing it? The Rasenshuriken is one thing, but remaining baffled by the one-handed Rasengan while Kakashi can make one easily as a demonstration is even more embarrassing.

Yeah thats definately bull crap. If his chakra control is so pathetic that he needs extra hands to form a basic rasengan, then he shouldnt even be capable of adding nature chakra to the mix and having it hold together. But that just goes to my point even more. Naruto is this stupidly handicapped ninja who wins for exactly TWO reasons. One, he can take absolutely insane levels of damage, shrug off a dozen lethal blows, and still keep fighting with the same level of no skill that he started with, and then, after 5 hours of getting his ass kicked and landing perhaps a half dozen surprise hits that do limited damage, he manages to pull an ubermove out of his rectal passage and catch the bad guy totally off guard for the win. He has been trained by a sanin, some of konohas most powerful jounin, and he STILL fights like a rookie. Personally, i think thats why most of his opponents are insane, their minds snapped trying to make sense of all this.

[Xondoure]

How about still being unable to use his signature move properly after three years of knowing it? The Rasenshuriken is one thing, but remaining baffled by the one-handed Rasengan while Kakashi can make one easily as a demonstration is even more embarrassing.

Naruto's signature move is his shadow clones. The day he no longer needs them will never happen.

[Traab]

Naruto's signature move is his shadow clones. The day he no longer needs them will never happen.

The day he can use them properly is the day he takes over the world. Seriously, if he was able to use them to their fullest extent, instead of just paper targets, he could take down a ninja village by himself without ever touching kyuubis power. As an example, Sneak into say... kumo. Summon his vast army of clones then immeadiatly have them ALL do the most destructive jutsu he knows, (I have no idea whats in his arsenal by now) and he could level the entire place and escape in the confusion. If he had ever managed to learn that great breakthrough technique orochi used way back in the chunin exam to split them all up, he could flatten entire districts instantly. Who needs the yellow flash when youve got the orange swarm?

The very best thing jiraya could have ever taught him was to master a highly evasive taijutsu style, and as many mass destruction jutsus as he could cram into his head. Hell, even that swamp technique jiraya has would work. He could turn the nearest 500 square miles into a chakra draining swamp that absorbs all of lightning country.

[Xondoure]

The day he can use them properly is the day he takes over the world. Seriously, if he was able to use them to their fullest extent, instead of just paper targets, he could take down a ninja village by himself without ever touching kyuubis power. As an example, Sneak into say... kumo. Summon his vast army of clones then immeadiatly have them ALL do the most destructive jutsu he knows, (I have no idea whats in his arsenal by now) and he could level the entire place and escape in the confusion. If he had ever managed to learn that great breakthrough technique orochi used way back in the chunin exam to split them all up, he could flatten entire districts instantly. Who needs the yellow flash when youve got the orange swarm?

The very best thing jiraya could have ever taught him was to master a highly evasive taijutsu style, and as many mass destruction jutsus as he could cram into his head. Hell, even that swamp technique jiraya has would work. He could turn the nearest 500 square miles into a chakra draining swamp that absorbs all of lightning country.

I believe the way it was originally explained had each shadow clone taking half of his current chakra. And any subsequent shadow clones taking the equivalent fraction from himself and any existing ones. Of course this means that even if he had 100 times his chakra at the start of the show each spammed clone would be useless and he himself near death exhausted after a few rounds. As this never happens I assume that when they die at least a portion of their chakra returns to Naruto. However even with this each individual clone when spammed has less strength than a genin so I doubt mass attacks work. Of course if he then opens up controlled kyubii plus sage chakra and manages to balance it beyond two or three clones we could have what you described. Or better yet: raining rasenshurikens.

[Traab]

I believe the way it was originally explained had each shadow clone taking half of his current chakra. And any subsequent shadow clones taking the equivalent fraction from himself and any existing ones. Of course this means that even if he had 100 times his chakra at the start of the show each spammed clone would be useless and he himself near death exhausted after a few rounds. As this never happens I assume that when they die at least a portion of their chakra returns to Naruto. However even with this each individual clone when spammed has less strength than a genin so I doubt mass attacks work. Of course if he then opens up controlled kyubii plus sage chakra and manages to balance it beyond two or three clones we could have what you described. Or better yet: raining rasenshurikens.

If thats the way it workjs, then how the hell does shadow clone training even work? He had that insane number of clones all working at the same time, but they had to have had infintesimal slivers of chakra, so what good were they? I say, if kishi wants to give all of the bad guys psycho god mode skills, then let naruto at least have his shadow clone swarm as an effective army! Each clone costs x chakra to make, period. Each clone is made and has Y level of strength/chakra, period. The total number of clones doesnt effect the strength of each, and the only limit is how many times naruto is capable of exerting the x level of chakra to make each clone.

[Silverraptor]

*Looks at page number*

Well what do you know. Were going to need a new thread soon.

[Drolyt]

Honestly, I lost track of the manga around the whole big reveal of kushina being a former vessel and all that crap. A lot of the shippuden era stuff bugged the hell out of me. Mainly how sasuke seemed to get a new powerup every time they saw him. Yet another awesome eye skill with little downside, while naruto scrapes by with self mutilating trump cards that frankly suck in comparison, and wins through sheer refusal to lay down and finish bleeding to death. It was one thing when he was a freaking new genin. Its embarrassing after several years of training.

I disagree about the Sasuke thing. It's okay if you don't like Sasuke, but Kishi wants him to be the rival. Naruto keeps getting upgrades (not sure what you mean about self mutilating trump cards, Sage Mode, Fox Mode, and thrown Rasenshuriken all seem pretty awesome to me) so Sasuke needs upgrades to compete. Simple.

[Lord Vukodlak]

I'm still waiting for Naruto and Hinata to have a talk about her saying she loves him.

[Silverraptor]

I'm still waiting for Naruto and Hinata to have a talk about her saying she loves him.

You and me both. And I'm sure everyone here as well.

[Traab]

You and me both. And I'm sure everyone here as well.

Im waiting for him to release an april fools day copy that has naruto and tsunade making out in it. :p

[BlackDragonKing]

I'm still waiting for Naruto and Hinata to have a talk about her saying she loves him.

Or at least, you know, thanking her for sacrificing her life in a fist fight with god on his behalf.

Im waiting for him to release an april fools day copy that has naruto and tsunade making out in it. :p

...Can't...unsee...

[Silverraptor]

...Can't...unsee...

But you haven't seen it yet.

[Lurkmoar]

But you haven't seen it yet.

I have... it was a doujinshi of course. Nice artwork in it though.

Edit: Also, Naruto has been getting upgrades to keep up with Sasuke, not the other way around. I keep wondering what the hell Naruto was doing when he was trekking around with Jiraiya for all those years, especially when Sasuke made Sai, Sakura, Yamamoto and Naruto look like a bunch of clowns when they caught up with him that one time.

[BlackDragonKing]

I have... it was a doujinshi of course. Nice artwork in it though.

Edit: Also, Naruto has been getting upgrades to keep up with Sasuke, not the other way around. I keep wondering what the hell Naruto was doing when he was trekking around with Jiraiya for all those years, especially when Sasuke made Sai, Sakura, Yamamoto and Naruto look like a bunch of clowns when they caught up with him that one time.

Given that Sasuke artificially boosted his fighting abilities by 'roiding up and abusing his inborn broken ability, that's not really that impressive.

Still, Naruto had next to nothing to show for his three years of training. I think Jiraya's goal was to teach Naruto how to use the fox chakra like Bee uses the ox chakra, which would have made Naruto downright godly, but it failed.

[Silverraptor]

Given that Sasuke artificially boosted his fighting abilities by 'roiding up and abusing his inborn broken ability, that's not really that impressive.

Still, Naruto had next to nothing to show for his three years of training. I think Jiraya's goal was to teach Naruto how to use the fox chakra like Bee uses the ox chakra, which would have made Naruto downright godly, but it failed.

Failed then. He's becoming godly now.

Also, am I the only one who had a mini-dream with Naruto as Hokage and some supercharged villain knocks down the gate of the leaf villageand challenges him to a battle; only to have Naruto go into sage mode 3 times, using two clones to do so, then going into fox chakra mode and totally knocking the stuffing out of the guy?

[Xondoure]

I have... it was a doujinshi of course. Nice artwork in it though.

Edit: Also, Naruto has been getting upgrades to keep up with Sasuke, not the other way around. I keep wondering what the hell Naruto was doing when he was trekking around with Jiraiya for all those years, especially when Sasuke made Sai, Sakura, Yamamoto and Naruto look like a bunch of clowns when they caught up with him that one time.

In my own head I justify it as Jiraiya giving Naruto all of the basics he would need to become a sage without Naruto knowing it, while he tried to figure out how best to approach the Kyubii aspect of Naruto's power. This way Naruto isn't a super prodigy when it comes to inner peace (always bugged me) and Jiraiya is an awesome teacher.

[Drolyt]

Given that Sasuke artificially boosted his fighting abilities by 'roiding up and abusing his inborn broken ability, that's not really that impressive.

Still, Naruto had next to nothing to show for his three years of training. I think Jiraya's goal was to teach Naruto how to use the fox chakra like Bee uses the ox chakra, which would have made Naruto downright godly, but it failed.

I think Kishi's intent was for Naruto to gain general Ninja training from Jiraiya. As in, he really was much stronger after training for three years, but because there weren't really any new flashy moves and never got to show off his new skills it doesn't seem like it.

[Xondoure]

Failed then. He's becoming godly now.

Also, am I the only one who had a mini-dream with Naruto as Hokage and some supercharged villain knocks down the gate of the leaf villageand challenges him to a battle; only to have Naruto go into sage mode 3 times, using two clones to do so, then going into fox chakra mode and totally knocking the stuffing out of the guy?

Still waiting for him to Combine Sage and Fox chakras to their full extent (neither can be used full power as they kill the user. My theory is that they balance eachother out) Giving him a grand total of too much chakra.

[Callos_DeTerran]

If you believe the databooks he's actually considerably stronger now. Although murderously strong for a Genin, he wasn't even Jounin level when he fought Kimmimaro; the reason he was brought along for the attack on Konoha was so he could transform into Shukaku (Naruto ruined that). Kimmimaro's stats were certainly impressive, putting him in the range of strong Jounin like Zabuza (same stat total), but I'm not sure that even without his illness he could face Gaara as he is now.

Really? Can't really tell since I haven't read any of the databooks, just seen them referenced at times. And I'd certainly say that Kimmimaro could face Gaara now considering, WITH his disease, he was strong enough to make murdering the Kazekage a piece of cake (pretty much Orochimaru's own words there, he said it would have been much more difficult without illness impaired Kimmimaro's help). Now, he's no longer disease impaired and no longer needs to worry about any of the side-effects of the Cursed Seal. He's literally lost all of his drawbacks except for decent ranged and his 'Forest of Bone techniques' makes up for that to a degree. Not saying it'd be an easy fight, but Kimmimaro would have a much easier time fighting Gaara then a majority of the Edo zombies who's abilities are known. (Not counting Team Crap-your-pants-now (or the group of Itachi, Nagato, and Kakuzu in other words) )

And I wouldn't place Itachi as powerful as Madara or the 4th Hokage either. Definitely not for the strongest ninja. Itachi himself said Jiraiya could probably beat him which automatically would push Pain's/Nagato's chances up into the stratosphere, Tobi's own are likely quite good, Konan could likely manage it (depending on how she could handle Ameterasu), the Raikage could definitely make a good showing for himself, so on and so forth. Don't get me wrong, Itachi is good, but his best trump-card will practically kill him if he uses it for more then five minutes (being generous with how long he used it against Sasuke) and without it...well...Sasuke's demonstrated that a lot of the most powerful people in the Narutoverse can get around Tsukiyomi and Ameterasu and Itachi's Susanoo is only special because of the spirit sword and shield it has. Plus it's complete. That's important too.

[IcarusWings]

Naruto's signature move is his shadow clones. The day he no longer needs them will never happen.

While this was certainly true pre-time skip, I don't think it is now. Over the Shippuden Timeline, Naruto has been using less and less Shadow Clones in his fights, and using them more tactically. He ended up using them so little that I was actually surprised when he gang-ganked Pain with Mass Shadow Clones. All previous times I've been able to predict exactly when or how that would happen. Naruto's signature move now is almost certainly Rasengan and its derivatives.

[Xondoure]

While this was certainly true pre-time skip, I don't think it is now. Over the Shippuden Timeline, Naruto has been using less and less Shadow Clones in his fights, and using them more tactically. He ended up using them so little that I was actually surprised when he gang-ganked Pain with Mass Shadow Clones. All previous times I've been able to predict exactly when or how that would happen. Naruto's signature move now is almost certainly Rasengan and its derivatives.

Which all use shadow clones. And how does he get around sage modes weakness? Shadow clones. It's a miracle he hasn't perfected the beast roar (or whatever it is) with a third clone yet.