New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 37
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Zombie

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Straight-Up Power Gaming Party

    If four of you were starting a new Lvl 1-20 campaign and wanted to power game the crap out of it, couldn't you just pick Artificer, Cleric, Druid, and Wizard (dual-classed into Sorceror then Ultimate Magus), and use your starting gold to hire half a dozen mercernaries to keep watch and handle melee?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ElfWarriorGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2012

    Default Re: Straight-Up Power Gaming Party

    Our DM splits xp with everyone involved, even if those involved can't get xp, thus it takes forever to actually level. Not only that, but it waters down the game. At some point you can just have the dm just tell a story "You guys and your army defeat the other party and... *rolls dice* 3 of your hired mercs died." It would be about the same thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Fresh and exciting doesn't exist in a game that's almost old enough to drive. Which is why it's extra fun every time someone comes in to say that no, fighters are totally a real character class, because you all missed that one thing or that other one thing and once I saw a fighter beat up a squirrel.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Orc in the Playground
     
    GreataxeFighterGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Amsterdam
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Straight-Up Power Gaming Party

    Quote Originally Posted by LTwerewolf View Post
    Our DM splits xp with everyone involved, even if those involved can't get xp, thus it takes forever to actually level.
    Does that mean taking Leadership will cost everybody a lot of XP?

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ElfWarriorGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2012

    Default Re: Straight-Up Power Gaming Party

    Quote Originally Posted by mcv View Post
    Does that mean taking Leadership will cost everybody a lot of XP?
    It sure does, and that's how he balances leadership being such a powerful feat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Fresh and exciting doesn't exist in a game that's almost old enough to drive. Which is why it's extra fun every time someone comes in to say that no, fighters are totally a real character class, because you all missed that one thing or that other one thing and once I saw a fighter beat up a squirrel.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Orc in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2010

    Default Re: Straight-Up Power Gaming Party

    Strictly speaking, a straight Batman wizard is better than an Ultimate Magus--which has to jump through a lot of hoops to get 9th level spells. If you are really bent on being on being an Ultimate Magus, then go Conjurer or Focused Conjurer/Beguiler/Ultimate Magus. That way you have only one casting attribute. Prohibit Illusion, Enchantment, and (if Focused) Necromancy on the Wizard side. The Beguiler spell list makes up for the Illusion and Enchantment loss but, at least IMHO, the Contingency spell is a lot more useful in the long run than the Necromancy school.

    Mercs aren't cheap, especially for the long haul; did you see the prices?
    But you wouldn't really need them. Cleric and Druid can, in a pinch, handle melee all by themselves--especially with a Batman wizard and an Artificer backing them up.

    Of course, if you really want to power game, go gestalt.
    Cleric//Paladin: the Ultimate Holy Warrior
    Wizard//Archivist: The Ultimate Batman
    Sorcerer//Favored Soul: The True Mystic Theurge
    Druid//Ranger: Nature's Ultimate Defender
    Artificer//Factotum: The Ultimate Skillmonkey

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Randomguy's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Straight-Up Power Gaming Party

    Quote Originally Posted by odigity View Post
    If four of you were starting a new Lvl 1-20 campaign and wanted to power game the crap out of it, couldn't you just pick Artificer, Cleric, Druid, and Wizard (dual-classed into Sorceror then Ultimate Magus), and use your starting gold to hire half a dozen mercernaries to keep watch and handle melee?
    Who needs mercenaries? With a Cleric, Druid and animal companion you've already got 3 tanks. Not to mention summoned creatures.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Northeast USA
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Straight-Up Power Gaming Party

    I mean, the best thing to do if you DM gives penalties for extra combatants is have the druid not take an animal companion, the wizard should not have a familiar and you don't want any mercenaries or cohorts/companions. Any wandering "allies" can just be slain for their juicy xp insides.

    Also, why no Psion?

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Zombie

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Straight-Up Power Gaming Party

    Quote Originally Posted by LadyLexi View Post
    Also, why no Psion?
    Because I'm still barely familiar with psionics, and I don't see Psions mentioned as a power class as often as the other four.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Titan in the Playground
     
    nedz's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    London, EU
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Straight-Up Power Gaming Party

    Quote Originally Posted by LTwerewolf View Post
    Our DM splits xp with everyone involved, even if those involved can't get xp, thus it takes forever to actually level. Not only that, but it waters down the game. At some point you can just have the dm just tell a story "You guys and your army defeat the other party and... *rolls dice* 3 of your hired mercs died." It would be about the same thing.
    This is a common and spurious argument.

    If there are more characters involved you can fight more enemies, thus the number of xp awarded increases. When this is shared out the individual characters get a smaller share of a larger pot.

    What is actually happening, I suspect, is that the DM is running a slow progression campaign. This means that even if you had a lean and mean party, you would advance no faster.
    π = 4
    Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' — Actually it's worse than that.


    Completely Dysfunctional Handbook
    Warped Druid Handbook

    Avatar by Caravaggio

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Central Kentucky
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Straight-Up Power Gaming Party

    Quote Originally Posted by jedipilot24 View Post
    Of course, if you really want to power game, go gestalt.
    Cleric//Paladin: the Ultimate Holy Warrior
    Wizard//Archivist: The Ultimate Batman
    Sorcerer//Favored Soul: The True Mystic Theurge
    Druid//Ranger: Nature's Ultimate Defender
    Artificer//Factotum: The Ultimate Skillmonkey
    I would try to keep things on combined primary stat, in general... Cloistered Cleric // Mystic, Wizard//Factotum, Archivist//Factotum, Druid//Swordsage, Artificer//Factotum. At least, I'm pretty sure those have roughly the same stat requirements (corrections appreciated).

    You don't need to buy mercs. Just buy Mules, and get them trained with a custom set of tricks for combat. They are perfectly fine tanks.
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2012-11-17 at 12:23 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    ganiseville GA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Straight-Up Power Gaming Party

    StP erudite is higher op than psion due to multiple unlimited PP tricks that are lower hanging fruit.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Minnesota
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Straight-Up Power Gaming Party

    Quote Originally Posted by odigity View Post
    If four of you were starting a new Lvl 1-20 campaign and wanted to power game the crap out of it, couldn't you just pick Artificer, Cleric, Druid, and Wizard (dual-classed into Sorceror then Ultimate Magus), and use your starting gold to hire half a dozen mercernaries to keep watch and handle melee?
    Mercenaries? Sacrificing wizard levels to get into some dual-progression PrC? Who needs that?
    Last edited by Hiro Protagonest; 2012-11-17 at 08:51 PM.
    Avatar of George the Dragon Slayer, from the upcoming Indivisible!
    My Steam profile
    Warriors and Wuxia, Callos_DeTerran's ToB setting

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    ganiseville GA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Straight-Up Power Gaming Party

    Everyone just takes wild cohort at level one to snag a riding dog. They can retrain later once the sorcerer/malconvoker comes into his own.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Morcleon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Floating in the void

    Default Re: Straight-Up Power Gaming Party

    Quote Originally Posted by odigity View Post
    Because I'm still barely familiar with psionics, and I don't see Psions mentioned as a power class as often as the other four.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fouredged Sword View Post
    StP erudite is higher op than psion due to multiple unlimited PP tricks that are lower hanging fruit.
    Yep. Get an StP Erudite, manifest metaconcert with your psicrystal to get all your powers known at will without worrying about unique powers/day. Then, when you run low on PP, manifest a persistent temporal acceleration, rest, re-buff, and jump back in.
    Avatar of Furude Setsuna, by Telasi.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mephit View Post
    Don't worry, I like my characters the way I like my coffee: Strong, but with no cheese in it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Akagi
    Don't hesitate to tell the people you care about the feelings you have for them, because they may not be there tomorrow.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Arcanist's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2012

    Default Re: Straight-Up Power Gaming Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Jade Dragon View Post
    Mercenaries? Sacrificing wizard levels to get into some dual-progression PrC? Who needs that?
    I agree with Jade on this one... Partially. I would have personally gone Human StP Spell Focused Erudite3 / Specialist Wizard1 / Master Specialist1 / Cerebremancer10 / Archmage5

    and just take up Practiced Manifester, Spell Mastery and Uncanny Forethought. Boom. I'm now an Arcanist now (See Netheril: Empire of Magic) with access to my entire spell list at all times with access to an adjustable spell list and the ability to spontaneously cast/manifest whatever the hell I, whenever the hell I want

    ... But that is just me...
    Larloch, The Shadow King (w/ Ioun Stones) avatar by Iron Penguin

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2012

    Default Re: Straight-Up Power Gaming Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Morcleon View Post
    Yep. Get an StP Erudite, manifest metaconcert with your psicrystal to get all your powers known at will without worrying about unique powers/day. Then, when you run low on PP, manifest a persistent temporal acceleration, rest, re-buff, and jump back in.

    Eh, how are you persisting temporal acceleration..? IIRC there isn't a persist metapsionic feat.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Morcleon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Floating in the void

    Default Re: Straight-Up Power Gaming Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Aliek View Post
    Eh, how are you persisting temporal acceleration..? IIRC there isn't a persist metapsionic feat.
    There's a 3.0 version. And if it hasn't been updated...

    Also it only costs 8 extra PP, which is equivalent to +4-5 spell levels.
    Avatar of Furude Setsuna, by Telasi.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mephit View Post
    Don't worry, I like my characters the way I like my coffee: Strong, but with no cheese in it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Akagi
    Don't hesitate to tell the people you care about the feelings you have for them, because they may not be there tomorrow.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Hirax's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2010

    Default Re: Straight-Up Power Gaming Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Aliek View Post
    Eh, how are you persisting temporal acceleration..? IIRC there isn't a persist metapsionic feat.
    There's always good ol' fashioned metamind abuse. If the OP is talking in the context of a party, then have one person be a metamind constantly having temporal reiteration affect the party, and another person dip into void disciple. Those feats that the void disciple can grant people temporarily? They'll never run out. Thanks to fission never running out due to temporal reititeration, there will be two people to split temporal reiteration duties as needed. So, as long as the party doesn't split up into a more than 3 parts, over a period of time the party will acquire and be able to use all non-ancestor feats, even ones they don't qualify for. Hello, epic spellcasting.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2007

    Default Re: Straight-Up Power Gaming Party

    I'm surprised nobody mentioned Incantatrix as the primary choice for Wizard PrC. For one, metamagic stacking works brilliantly on buffs. For two, Shape Spell metamagic is hilarious combined with the ability to tack in onto other people's spells or move around your own battlefield control spells.

    As for the starting gold, give it all to the Artificer and let him multiply it's value.

    If we are talking about high-end powergaming, then either the Druid goes for Planar Shephard or is replaced by a Psion for all the action economy and time shenanigans.
    In a war it doesn't matter who's right, only who's left.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2011

    Default Re: Straight-Up Power Gaming Party

    If I was asked to play a straight-up powergaming party, I would choose a Lurk, Soulborn, Hexblade and Healer. Because after a plethora of rehashing the standard classes and builds, wouldn't it be fun to troll the optimization-minded DM?

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Zombie

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Straight-Up Power Gaming Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Kazyan View Post
    If I was asked to play a straight-up powergaming party, I would choose a Lurk, Soulborn, Hexblade and Healer. Because after a plethora of rehashing the standard classes and builds, wouldn't it be fun to troll the optimization-minded DM?
    What, no monk? :)

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Draz74's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Utah
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Straight-Up Power Gaming Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Radar View Post
    I'm surprised nobody mentioned Incantatrix as the primary choice for Wizard PrC. For one, metamagic stacking works brilliantly on buffs. For two, Shape Spell metamagic is hilarious combined with the ability to tack in onto other people's spells or move around your own battlefield control spells.
    Definitely crossed my mind, but who's to say whether Incantatrix Wizard is better or worse than Incantatrix Wu Jen (using the famous Team Solars trick to buff the rest of the party instead of having the Wizard spell list)?

    Actually, more to the point, where is the cheesiness ceiling in this "power gaming" exercise? Judging by the tone of the OP, Pun-Pun obviously isn't allowed. But Incantatrix is still far too overpowered for many DMs. If Incantatrix is allowed, what else (even more powerful) is allowed? Dweomerkeeper? Cancer Mage (abuse)? Illithid Savant? Tainted Scholar? Or even ...

    If we are talking about high-end powergaming, then either the Druid goes for Planar Shephard or is replaced by a Psion Spell-to-Power Erudite for all the action economy and time shenanigans.
    ... this monstrosity?
    You can call me Draz.
    Trophies:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Also of note:

    I have a number of ongoing projects that I manically jump between to spend my free time ... so don't be surprised when I post a lot about something for a few days, then burn out and abandon it.
    ... yes, I need to be tested for ADHD.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2011

    Default Re: Straight-Up Power Gaming Party

    Quote Originally Posted by odigity View Post
    What, no monk? :)
    I tried to play a Monk once, but a masked man with a distinctive giggle that I couldn't quite place hit me with a rolling pin. I woke up in my bed with the names of all disciplines written on the sheets in my own blood. There were obscure sourcebooks in the freezer, with all but the Feats sections replaced by pictures of deceased family pets.

    So yeah, no monks.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Tennessee
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Straight-Up Power Gaming Party

    Quote Originally Posted by odigity View Post
    What, no monk? :)
    We're talking weak classes, not useless ones.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Straight-Up Power Gaming Party

    Quote Originally Posted by legomaster00156 View Post
    We're talking weak classes, not useless ones.
    If he wanted useless classes, he would have chosen Truenamer. Even Monks are paragons of effectiveness in relative comparison.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Colossus in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Finland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Straight-Up Power Gaming Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Radar View Post
    I'm surprised nobody mentioned Incantatrix as the primary choice for Wizard PrC. For one, metamagic stacking works brilliantly on buffs. For two, Shape Spell metamagic is hilarious combined with the ability to tack in onto other people's spells or move around your own battlefield control spells.

    As for the starting gold, give it all to the Artificer and let him multiply it's value.

    If we are talking about high-end powergaming, then either the Druid goes for Planar Shephard or is replaced by a Psion for all the action economy and time shenanigans.
    Your standards for high-end powergaming are staggeringly low.
    Campaign Journal: Uncovering the Lost World - A Player's Diary in Low-Magic D&D (Latest Update: 8.3.2014)
    Being Bane: A Guide to Barbarians Cracking Small Men - Ever Been Angry?! Then this is for you!
    SRD Averages - An aggregation of all the key stats of all the monster entries on SRD arranged by CR.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Morcleon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Floating in the void

    Default Re: Straight-Up Power Gaming Party

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    If he wanted useless classes, he would have chosen Truenamer. Even Monks are paragons of effectiveness in relative comparison.
    Actually, truenamer isn't that hard to optimize. The problem is it runs off of a skill check. Which means that it's either completely ineffective, or extremely so.
    Avatar of Furude Setsuna, by Telasi.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mephit View Post
    Don't worry, I like my characters the way I like my coffee: Strong, but with no cheese in it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Akagi
    Don't hesitate to tell the people you care about the feelings you have for them, because they may not be there tomorrow.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Banned
     
    SolithKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Sydnah, Australia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Straight-Up Power Gaming Party

    What this forum thinks of as 'powergaming' is pretty funny coming from BG and 337.

    When I think of powergaming, i'm thinking of simultaneous solar gate attacks on multi-planet clone-farm hegemonies and repeated time-travel based DDOS attacks on people's pre-birth timelines, and characters that exist outside time and space, and 'losing' simply meaning that you have to create your OWN universe to play around in.

    But apparently a party without a Fighter in it works just as well. :P

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Minnesota
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Straight-Up Power Gaming Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Rejakor View Post
    What this forum thinks of as 'powergaming' is pretty funny coming from BG and 337.

    When I think of powergaming, i'm thinking of simultaneous solar gate attacks on multi-planet clone-farm hegemonies and repeated time-travel based DDOS attacks on people's pre-birth timelines, and characters that exist outside time and space, and 'losing' simply meaning that you have to create your OWN universe to play around in.

    But apparently a party without a Fighter in it works just as well. :P
    There's a line between powergaming, and just plain abusing the rules.

    And Terminator-style attacks? Existing outside of time and space? Losing meaning you have to create a new universe? I have never heard of these tricks, and the only way I can think of them being possible is epic-level spellcasting, or maybe super abuse of StP Erudite for the time stuff.
    Last edited by Hiro Protagonest; 2012-11-19 at 03:23 PM.
    Avatar of George the Dragon Slayer, from the upcoming Indivisible!
    My Steam profile
    Warriors and Wuxia, Callos_DeTerran's ToB setting

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Banned
     
    SolithKnightGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Sydnah, Australia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Straight-Up Power Gaming Party

    There are a number of ways to travel through time in 3.5 pre-epic. The easiest ways are all epic, though, of course.

    There are also a number of ways to create your own universe, sealed from the rest of reality.


    Also, if you want to tell stories about wizards that live in towers and have incompetent kobold minions and use fireballs, that's great and fine. Just don't call what other people have fun doing 'abusing' the rules. That implies all sorts of negative connotations that aren't actually occurring.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •