So, the Borderlands 1.75/Pre-Sequel is out...thoughts?

[SouthpawSoldier]

I'e only had time to burn a couple hours playing but impressions so far....

It's a BIG expansion to Borderlands 2. Viewed as a whole, there's nothing inspiring about the game. But where I find joy is in the little touches. Explosive decompression to crates outside of atmosphere. Running to vaccuum to extingush flames when hit with a burn effect. The changes in Wilhem's appearance and voice as he's augmented with artificial parts. Little things like that.

What I wish they'd done is at least include a character/class breakdown in the booklet. Claptrap isn't bad, but not as geared to solo play as some of the others.Getting an idea of what each character's design philosophy was before spending a couple hours to level enough for points in skill trees.

[Alex Knight]

Fragtrap is the awesome, and yes, he does have an ENTIRE TREE built on group play. That said, his explosion tree is pretty good for solo work, especially the Torgue Fiesta.

[SouthpawSoldier]

I love his lines, and Jack's reactions, but the whole "swap weapons every 90 seconds" program gets a bit irritating, epecially at low levels before unlocking the rest of the quick-swap menu. Skill choices feel like that matter a LOT more in this one than previous installments, which I dig. The turnoff to previous editions was farming for a specific iteration of a weapon or piece of loot to base builds around, whereas (so far) skill choices seem to be more central to character design.

I do wish they'd altered the narration to match solo play with characters other than Athena.

[NEO|Phyte]

I do wish they'd altered the narration to match solo play with characters other than Athena.

Well Nisha or Wilhelm can't be the narrator, considering they get a mild case of the dead in BL2, and if they framed solo play as not being done by the full group of hunters, why would they even be talking with Athena if she hadn't been involved?

Disregarding Claptrap because who would ever want to talk to him.

[factotum]

So it's a big expansion to Borderlands 2, which was itself little more than an overlarge DLC for the original game? Whoop-de-do, think I'll pass on this one, at least until Gearbox do something original with the franchise.

[NeoVid]

I'm really impressed. The improved pacing is a huge thing for me, the only bad part of BL2 was the long stretch of boredom at the start. Presequel gives you skills starting at level 3 and puts you in constant action. The side quests are also better designed, not taking you stupidly far out of your way with backtracking this time. It also fixed my other major complaint about BL2, which was how much harder it was to get high-rarity weapons than in BL1. I'm getting better drops faster than in BL2, and The Grinder is a thing of beauty.

The added personality of the characters is also pretty impressive, though mileage may vary. Fragtrap is turning out to be amazingly entertaining, but it's hard for me to stay interested in playing Wilhelm with how deadpan the guy is. The writing seems nearly on par with BL2, which was one of the best-written games of last year, though I won't be able to judge that for certain until I've finished the main storyline (no sign of Angel yet, for one thing...).

But so far, I'm actually playing it more intensely than I did BL2, which is saying something. Like BL2, Presequel so far has had its average moments be as good as the absolute best parts of the DLC from BL1, along with the gameplay and character loadouts be much better designed from the start... with the possible exception of Fragtrap, but then, he's designed pretty well to make the player base keep hating him.

[Legoshrimp]

So it's a big expansion to Borderlands 2, which was itself little more than an overlarge DLC for the original game? Whoop-de-do, think I'll pass on this one, at least until Gearbox do something original with the franchise.

Uhhhhhhhh good luck with ever buying a sequel.
I mean there are a bunch of new mechanics, but they didn't massively change the gameplay(probably because they wanted people to like the game...) Sequels generally aren't expected to be original since you know they are being made off of something....


So far I am liking it. The new mechanics are cool.
If anyone wants to play add me. Not sure how much I will be playing but currently have a level 10.

[Antonok]

So it's a big expansion to Borderlands 2, which was itself little more than an overlarge DLC for the original game? Whoop-de-do, think I'll pass on this one, at least until Gearbox do something original with the franchise.

Not quite. It takes place between the first and second. If you notice in the first one the moon is perfectly fine, in the second the moon is destroyed. This is the story of what happens to it, and Handsome Jack's rise to power.

[Legoshrimp]

Not quite. It takes place between the first and second. If you notice in the first one the moon is perfectly fine, in the second the moon is destroyed. This is the story of what happens to it, and Handsome Jack's rise to power.

I think he was complaining that they didn't change the gameplay massively.

[Geno9999]

Oh man, there are so many improvements the Pre-sequel has over BL2.

• Gear lasts longer: I'm at level 33 and I'm still mopping the floor with a lvl 28 shotgun. There's a lot less pressure to upgrade your gear this time around.
• O2 Kits: better mobility, and enemies often drop tons of O2, the environment has lots of spots to refill O2, and the slow rate of losing O2 in the first place means that you don't have to worry too much about resource management.
• The Grinder: found a couple of class mods you can't use? Having trouble finding the right gun for you? Recycle your trash and turn it into something potentially better!
• Vendors have better items: while the main stock is mostly whites, the Item of the Day almost never has anything less than a Blue item. Which, in turn, makes money actually worthwhile.
• Moonstone > Eridium: Moonstone drops more often than Eridium did in BL2, and is used for more things other than accessing raid bosses or buying upgrades. Now you can purchase a 30-minute buff for yourself, open special chests, or use it on the Grinder to apply buffs/guarantee a best result item.

[Rodin]

I think he was complaining that they didn't change the gameplay massively.

It's a complaint shared by me, and after thinking for a bit I believe I can quantify it. It's the difference between Assassin's Creed 1 and Assassin's Creed 2 vs. AC2 and Brotherhood. The first Assassin's Creed was a good game that suffered from being obviously experimental. In the second, there was a massive qualitative upgrade in virtually all departments. Arguably the combat suffered, but that's about the only bad thing you could say - everything saw major changes for the better.

Then came Brotherhood. Ostensibly a sequel, virtually nothing changed in the base mechanics. It was the same game in a new location. Then came Revelations, and that suffered from the same problems. They didn't get any major changes in until the AC3, and even then the core gameplay suffered from being virtually identical to its predecessors. It's good gameplay, but unless you mix it up it gets dull.

That's how Borderlands 2 felt to me - it was very much "been there, done that". There wasn't anything to hold me there after all the time I spent in Borderlands 1. The base gameplay was still solid, and I got about halfway through it. But "more of the same" is not sufficient incentive to get me back for a third go.

[NeoVid]

You know, when you started making that comparison, I thought you were going to compare the difference between BL1 and 2 to the difference between AC1 and 2, like I would. Though to be honest, I'd say that Borderlands hit its stride with the General Knoxx DLC for the original.

[Alex Knight]

I love his lines, and Jack's reactions, but the whole "swap weapons every 90 seconds" program gets a bit irritating, epecially at low levels before unlocking the rest of the quick-swap menu.

Yeah, I've avoided the Fragmented Fragtrap tree so far and focused on Boomtrap.

[factotum]

That's how Borderlands 2 felt to me - it was very much "been there, done that". There wasn't anything to hold me there after all the time I spent in Borderlands 1.

That's exactly the point. I can't count how many hours I put into BL1, and I was so excited for the sequel that I pre-purchased the collector's edition (I still have the Marcus bobblehead on my desk upstairs)--and it was a crashing disappointment to just get "more of the same". I still put around 200 hours into BL2, so I definitely got my money's worth, but I just don't want to go through a third game which is still identical in terms of gameplay--I can go back and replay either of the previous two titles if I want to do that!

[ryuplaneswalker]

the core gameplay suffered from being virtually identical to its predecessors. It's good gameplay, but unless you mix it up it gets dull.

Now I am not going to Argue AC series is good, I pretty much loathe the entire set of games, but -assuming- a game has good core gameplay.

WHY change it? why mess with a good core of gameplay? Do you know where that leads us? *points at final fantasy* they had a good system until 10 where they started to much with the core game play and the only one that hasn't been a mess gameplay wise is X-2 where they gave us a Polished ATB system.

The way they mix the games up is by giving you different classes.

[Vitruviansquid]

Borderlands 1 was a fairly good game with some design flaws. As far as I'm concerned, Borderlands 2 perfected the Borderlands formula, so Borderlands 2 again isn't that terrible.

However, whenever I think about the Pre-sequel, I have this niggling feeling that it would've been so much cooler if it was released as an actual expansion pack rather than its own game. As long as they're not going to make any huge paradigm shifts, we could be playing Borderlands 2 with 10 classes, 2 new types of guns, and a busload of new quests and areas.

[Seatbelt]

I'm enjoying it. But it really is just more Borderlands. So if you're not excited for more Borderlands don't get it. *shrug*

[factotum]

WHY change it? why mess with a good core of gameplay?

Because there isn't enough variation in the Borderlands core gameplay to hold the interest for three games? It's basically an FPS with a few minor RPG elements and *one* activated ability your character can use to do something more than just run and gun, and in several cases (soldier and gunzerker for a start) the ability is just a slightly different variation of run and gun. They tried to change things up a bit with the DLC characters they added in 2, admittedly--the "anarchy stacks" the Mechromancer generates are a feature unique to her, which certainly made her a little more interesting than the others; however, she was still hobbled by having the same control scheme as everyone else, so one action (reloading) had to perform a whole variety of different things depending what you were doing and how many anarchy stacks you had.

It's entirely possible I wouldn't have been so down on B2 if I hadn't played the absolute death out of B1--I got every character into the 60s level wise, completed every single DLC with every single character, and thus found the fact B2 was largely more of the same to be a severe problem.

[darksolitaire]

Borderlands 1 was a fairly good game with some design flaws. As far as I'm concerned, Borderlands 2 perfected the Borderlands formula, so Borderlands 2 again isn't that terrible.

However, whenever I think about the Pre-sequel, I have this niggling feeling that it would've been so much cooler if it was released as an actual expansion pack rather than its own game. As long as they're not going to make any huge paradigm shifts, we could be playing Borderlands 2 with 10 classes, 2 new types of guns, and a busload of new quests and areas.

Word I'm thinking is a stand alone expansion. Sticking this all in BL2 would have probably been a bad idea. Year ago the Moon Base DLC was pretty much confirmed, then something happened and we got the Pre-sequel instead. This game isn't half bad, but suffers somewhat due to marketing it as a full game. Announcing the season pass and selling it before the game is even available reeks of cash grab, and I say this while owning all DLC for BL 1 and 2, pre-ordering pre-sequel and having even purchased few skin packs.

[NeoVid]

Well, there's a problem with getting expectations too high. Keep in mind that BL2 was so successful that Gearbox is intimidated by what a sequel would have to accomplish. If the choices are "more of the same" or "standards so high it never happens" I'll be kind of disappointed.

Only kind of, though. All I really ask for from a loot collection game like Diablo or Borderlands is a new set of loot and a new batch of characters to build while I'm killing dudes with it.

[Thiyr]

That's exactly the point. I can't count how many hours I put into BL1, and I was so excited for the sequel that I pre-purchased the collector's edition (I still have the Marcus bobblehead on my desk upstairs)--and it was a crashing disappointment to just get "more of the same". I still put around 200 hours into BL2, so I definitely got my money's worth, but I just don't want to go through a third game which is still identical in terms of gameplay--I can go back and replay either of the previous two titles if I want to do that!

I find that interesting, because I had something of the opposite experience. I played the first BL late into its lifetime, and it caught my interest for a while, but I couldn't finish it until BL2 was looming (because lazy). When BL2 hit, though, the polish on it made it a lot harder to put down. It didn't reinvent the game, but it took all the little things that felt...off, in the first game, and it tweaked them just enough to make it work better (most notably for me being the active skills. The cooldowns felt way too long, and the actual impact of the skills just...well, more often than not I forgot about the skills. BL2 felt like they dialed back the cooldowns, and gave the skills a bit more oomph, at least personally). And from what I've seen they did similar with Presequel. Haven't picked it up yet due to funds, but my biggest gripe was the slow start in 2 due to skills taking 5 levels to come online. Between that being fixed, the addition of new weapon types, having the skills seem even -more- impactful, and more straight-up new stuff, it seems like it didn't reinvent itself, but it did at least continue to refine what worked well and remove barricades to enjoyment.

That said, I can see the stand alone expansion thing. As mentioned by others before, reminds me of the assassin's creed 2 "expansions". The biggest thing I'm wondering, though, is where it -could- go to give us something new, instead of just further refinements on the formula?

[ryuplaneswalker]

Because there isn't enough variation in the Borderlands core gameplay to hold the interest for three games? It's basically an FPS with a few minor RPG elements and *one* activated ability your character can use to do something more than just run and gun, and in several cases (soldier and gunzerker for a start) the ability is just a slightly different variation of run and gun. They tried to change things up a bit with the DLC characters they added in 2, admittedly--the "anarchy stacks" the Mechromancer generates are a feature unique to her, which certainly made her a little more interesting than the others; however, she was still hobbled by having the same control scheme as everyone else, so one action (reloading) had to perform a whole variety of different things depending what you were doing and how many anarchy stacks you had.

It's entirely possible I wouldn't have been so down on B2 if I hadn't played the absolute death out of B1--I got every character into the 60s level wise, completed every single DLC with every single character, and thus found the fact B2 was largely more of the same to be a severe problem.

See, I view it completely differently, I prefer something that I am going to spend 60 dollars on(that is a great deal for me, 8.80/HR does not lend itself to spare money) to be something I know will be entertaining, and generally I play for solid gameplay and good plot.

If you are trying to do something new, good...but make sure it works before you do it. Heck this is my general complaint about MMOs they all try to "Innovate" in the same way and none of them make sure the darn innovations work *glares at champions online and the horrid blocking system*

[Gaelbert]

That said, I can see the stand alone expansion thing. As mentioned by others before, reminds me of the assassin's creed 2 "expansions". The biggest thing I'm wondering, though, is where it -could- go to give us something new, instead of just further refinements on the formula?

Non-cooperative multiplayer. Bam.
There obviously would be a lot of issues but I like the feel of the gunplay and movement system, so it could be fun.

[factotum]

See, I view it completely differently, I prefer something that I am going to spend 60 dollars on(that is a great deal for me, 8.80/HR does not lend itself to spare money) to be something I know will be entertaining, and generally I play for solid gameplay and good plot.

And that's what I really don't understand, because if you just want to play the same game again, you could just play the original one? That costs you nothing, and it's not like the plotlines in the Borderlands series are so goshwow amazing that you can justify the purchase for them alone.

[BRC]

Because there isn't enough variation in the Borderlands core gameplay to hold the interest for three games? It's basically an FPS with a few minor RPG elements and *one* activated ability your character can use to do something more than just run and gun, and in several cases (soldier and gunzerker for a start) the ability is just a slightly different variation of run and gun. They tried to change things up a bit with the DLC characters they added in 2, admittedly--the "anarchy stacks" the Mechromancer generates are a feature unique to her, which certainly made her a little more interesting than the others; however, she was still hobbled by having the same control scheme as everyone else, so one action (reloading) had to perform a whole variety of different things depending what you were doing and how many anarchy stacks you had.

It's entirely possible I wouldn't have been so down on B2 if I hadn't played the absolute death out of B1--I got every character into the 60s level wise, completed every single DLC with every single character, and thus found the fact B2 was largely more of the same to be a severe problem.

Eh, Whatchugonnado.

I havn't really been able to bring myself to do mutliple Borderlands playthroughs, but when I do play the game I have a blast with it.

I'm reaching the end of The Pre-Sequel, it's pretty fun. It's more Borderlands. There are more changes gameplay-wise between this and BL2 than between BL1 and BL2, with the lower gravity and jumping-based stuff. That said, I've died way too many times trying to get across the random chasms all over the map only to find out that no, I can't make that jump.

That said, I really do like how they have the Vault Hunters talk in this one, it can come across as a bit awkward sometimes, but it's still pretty fun. I've only ever played Athena, who is kind of a straight man to the goofier NPCs, so I don't know how well the other characters work.

[The_Jackal]

Let's not overblow what this game really is: It's a secondary title by a different (a.k.a. house) studio. Gearbox's only direct contribution to the game was in some of the writing. Borderlands 3 is probably still out there in early development by the Gearbox team, but this is 2K Games exercising its legal right to squeeze the IP for some ready cash, much in the same way that Activision pumped out six or so Call of Duty (developed by Infinity Ward) titles via their wholly owned subsidiary, Treyarch.

This is NO different. If you really GOTTA have more Borderlands, here you go. Treat it like a big chunk of DLC, or, if you're more of an old school fellow, an expansion pack.

[JediSoth]

I think full-price is a bit much for what this game ultimately is, but I did pre-order it...

Still, it's fun. I like the low-G jumping and the cryo weapons. I like the new NPCs and the Moon Zoomy vehicles. I LOVE Boganella (I never kept the Bane; I feel bad when I'm not using Boganella). I hate Kraggons and I still hate Stalkers. I hate Hyperion even more now.

Spoiler

Show

Apparently, they MADE the stalkers... jerks!

Mister Torgue is always gold but this game doesn't have enough of him, though. Explosions?

It's not worth $60, but I'm not sorry I bought it. I probably won't play it as much as I did BL2. Time (and DLC) will tell. Once I finish my Athena playthrough, I will play at least once more as Claptrap, maybe even once for each character since I no longer feel obligated to play through twice to get TVHM (maybe I'll play through TVHM once). I only solo, so apart from extra dialog, I don't see the value in TVHM for every character I have.

[Legoshrimp]

And that's what I really don't understand, because if you just want to play the same game again, you could just play the original one? That costs you nothing, and it's not like the plotlines in the Borderlands series are so goshwow amazing that you can justify the purchase for them alone.

It isn't the same game tho, it has similar gameplay, but there have been improvements/changes to the gameplay. There are new abilities, a different story, new weapons, new npcs, new mechanics, and borderlands story isn't amazing but its sense of humor is good, and a large part of why people like the game, so more of it is an improvement. Also I think your argument is that you shouldn't play 90% of games because they are a derivative of some other game with some other game.

Also multiplayer borderlands very likely wouldn't work without remvoing the loot system. I don't think there are really any games that have this sort of loot system, and gameplay that has any actual pvp. It would be pretty impossible to really balance the loot system around pve and pvp without one of them suffering massively, and I am not sure there is really any way to get this sort of RNG based loot to be balanced in a fully pvp game.

[NeoVid]

And that's what I really don't understand, because if you just want to play the same game again, you could just play the original one? That costs you nothing, and it's not like the plotlines in the Borderlands series are so goshwow amazing that you can justify the purchase for them alone.

In my case, it's because the original had the least fun characters to play, and the main storyline was a slog, which wasn't a problem for me at all in BL2. BL1 only kept me playing enough to get two characters to cap, while I have 4 characters in Ultimate Vault Hunter mode in BL2, and I'm still nowhere near done with them.

Also, I thought BL2 was one of the best written games I played last year, along with Saint's Row 4. Which drove me to ask, "What kind of world are we living in where Borderlands and Saint's Row are the smartest games of the year?"

The immediate answer I was given was "An awesome one."

[Thiyr]

Non-cooperative multiplayer. Bam.
There obviously would be a lot of issues but I like the feel of the gunplay and movement system, so it could be fun.

Ehh...For the looty-clicky type games (so BL, diablo, etc), I've yet to see a good way of implementing non-coop multiplayer that wasn't just "the same game but you're soloing at different parts" or "duels". The former doesn't seem like what you're looking for afaict, and the latter's been there since the start. Maybe they could add setting a pvp flag so you can do larger-scale pvp, but that's...well, I'd find that to be even smaller than what they gave us. Maybe dedicated multiplayer zones, but...I get the feeling that just wouldn't work given the style of game we have. Unless they gave us a more mmo-styled matchmaking for it, and even then I don't know how big of a change that would be.

Idunno, I guess I just feel like barring engine changes, refining what they have and adding new mechanics is about as far as they can go without gutting it and starting from scratch, or giving us a new game in the same 'verse.

Oh. Hi there Tales From The Borderlands, I was just vaguely alluding to you. How's it going?