[Drop Dead Studios] Spheres of Might Open Playtest

[Sho]

It does with SoP, so I would expect it to work for SoM, too.

There's feats that do the exact same thing in SoP? I've not seen them.

[digiman619]

There's feats that do the exact same thing in SoP? I've not seen them.

Well, in addition to the obvious Advanced Magical Training, there are a lot of traits that increase caster level in specific spheres (Conscious Cultist gives +1 CL to the Divination, Mind, and Telekinesis spheres, and Gift for Magic is +2 for any sphere), and a few spheres have feats that increase CL for some of their effects, i.e., Focused Blast Type giving +5 CL to destructive blast type) though almost all of them have max CL of your HD, so no cheating out effects before they're normally available.

[EldritchWeaver]

Don't forget Incanter's sphere specialization. Also Master of Cosmos does it for the Thaumathurge.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Two questions:

1. When using the Bloodmonger feat, is there a range limit on the ability to cast touch spells on someone using their blood? Also, how long does blood remain usable for such purposes if kept from drying out?

2. Do the Beastsoul Monk and similar archetypes count as having a caster level for the purposes of qualifying for prerequisites that call for a certain caster level but not explicitly the ability to actually cast spells?

[digiman619]

Any news on when we can expect the print versions of SoM and CotS? I know there was plans to get them out by Christmas, but that didn't happen obviously.

[torrasque666]

Now I may be missing something, but do any of the spheres do anything for a character using Natural Weapons?

[digiman619]

Now I may be missing something, but do any of the spheres do anything for a character using Natural Weapons?

They tend to be weapon-agnostic, but the Open Hand sphere has the Bestial Training talent that lets natural weapons count as unarmed strikes for the 4 spheres that care about them (Boxing, Brute, Open Hand & Wrestling, respectively).

I can't find it on the wiki, but it's referenced multiple times in the Sphere Bestiary section, so either something didn't make the transfer to the wiki, or it was deleted and never replaced.

[torrasque666]

They tend to be weapon-agnostic, but the Open Hand sphere has the Bestial Training talent that lets natural weapons count as unarmed strikes for the 4 spheres that care about them (Boxing, Brute, Open Hand & Wrestling, respectively).

I can't find it on the wiki, but it's referenced multiple times in the Sphere Bestiary section, so either something didn't make the transfer to the wiki, or it was deleted and never replaced.

I just checked the PDF. No mention of Bestial Training other than in the Decisive Fist tradition and... looks like it got rolled into Unarmed Training. Huh.

[EldritchWeaver]

Bestial Training was rolled into Unarmed Training. Any references to the Open Hand talent should have been adapted. In fact, the mention in Decisive Fist is the last remaining and can be safely deleted.

[Rungo]

@DDS: I just noticed another 'oddity' in the rules, this time regarding the Limited Athleticism drawback for the Athletics sphere (quoted in spoilers for convenience). It appears that by taking this drawback, you gain zero packages, and a talent that only functions when moving in accordance to a package you possess. In other words, you end up with nothing at all as you give up the original benefit of the Athletics sphere in return for a talent that doesn't work.

Spoiler: Limited Athleticism

Show

You do not gain a package. You must choose the Moving Target talent with the bonus talent gained from this drawback.

Spoiler: Moving Target (motion)

Show

When moving more than 5 ft. during your turn using the movement mode corresponding to a package you possess, you gain a 20% miss chance against ranged attacks until the start of your next turn. If you move more than 20 ft., you may expend your martial focus as a free action to increase this miss chance to 50%. If you take this talent a second time, the miss chance applies to all attacks made against you. Associated Feat: Wind Stance.

(Emphasis mine.)

[Serafina]

That's probably an oversight, but right now you can still get a net-gain from this if you choose the Drawback and Expanded Training.
Expanded Training gives you two packages, thus rendering Moving Target functional. And you've invested the same amount of talents, but gained one extra package, than if you had just picked Moving Target as a talent normally. It's also a way to essentially get Moving Target for free if you'd have bought all packages anyway, since you'd take Expanded Training twice either way.

Still ought to be fixed of course.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

That's probably an oversight, but right now you can still get a net-gain from this if you choose the Drawback and Expanded Training.
Expanded Training gives you two packages, thus rendering Moving Target functional. And you've invested the same amount of talents, but gained one extra package, than if you had just picked Moving Target as a talent normally. It's also a way to essentially get Moving Target for free if you'd have bought all packages anyway, since you'd take Expanded Training twice either way.

Still ought to be fixed of course.

Huh, so there's really no reason not to take Limited Athleticism then, is there? It's actually a net gain, unlike every other drawback

[Serafina]

Huh, so there's really no reason not to take Limited Athleticism then, is there? It's actually a net gain, unlike every other drawback

Depends entirely on what you want to do with the Athletics-sphere.
If you just want one package, and don't care about Moving Target, then obviously you'll not take the drawback because it'd be a net-loss.
If you want three packages, and don't care about Moving Target, then it's also one talent cheaper without the drawback.
But yes - if you want all four packages, it's basically a free talent - good even if you only rarely use it. If you want to have Moving Target, it's a free package (you either have two or four, as opposed to one or three). If you want all four packages and Moving Target, it's one talent cheaper.

[Ualaa]

Now I may be missing something, but do any of the spheres do anything for a character using Natural Weapons?

I specifically asked this during the first playtest, as I had a player interested in using Might with a Synthesist Summoner build, and Stack's response was that Natural Weapons are an oddity in the rules of the game. Basically, they're either too good (if you build for it), or not nearly good enough.

He essentially said that Might was intentionally built to work around weapons/unarmed strikes that function as weapons and to not work with natural attacks.

He did point me to the monster section of that playtest document and suggest using the information there.

[NomGarret]

There’s a fair amount that works for natural weapon wielders. Unarmed Training is the gateway talent for most of it. The thing is it doesn’t work the way we usually think of natural attack builds. A cat folk striker can use her claws in lieu of punches, and is otherwise like any other striker. SoM does not do a lot for claw/claw/bite/wing buffet/tail slap/tentacle/tentacle routines.

[torrasque666]

Do natural weapons count as light weapons for the purpose of the striker's Favored Weapon striker art? Additionally, can they be enchanted with the Dragon's Tattoos feat with/without the Unarmed Training Talent?

[NomGarret]

I'm inclined to say yes, though the relevant passages were part of late edits and maybe not as clear as they should be. It hinges on how encompassing the phrase "and interactions with abilities which require an unarmed strike" in Unarmed Training is meant to be.

[stack]

Regarding the limited athleticism issue, the drawback used to state that for any talent referring to movement mode from a package you possess, you instead had to choose one movement mode (so you pick ground speed for a normal human, for example). It also stated that you could not gain any packages.

Seems the necessary language was lost at some point.

[Hal0Badger]

Smashing Counter (deflect)

Whenever an attack misses a creature benefiting from your active defense, you may make a shield bash attack against the attacking creature as a free action that can be taken even when it’s not your turn.

Regarding that talent in Shield Sphere, does this extra attack with shield carry any penalties like two weapon fighting or half strength bonus?

[stack]

If an effect would apply a bonus or penalty to all attacks made until your next turn (combat expertise, power attack), those would apply also. Basically, treat it like an AOO.

[Hal0Badger]

If an effect would apply a bonus or penalty to all attacks made until your next turn (combat expertise, power attack), those would apply also. Basically, treat it like an AOO.

Sorry but I am a bit confused because of the bolded part. I mean, does it mean that attack has TWF penalties and gets any other penalties (like power attack) onto top of that?

I am asking because, in PF, as far as I can tell, shield bash is always an "off-hand" attack. First rule of that off-hand attack is that it gets half STR.

However, my confusion starts at this point: Off-hand term is used in TWF rules, and TWF rules only, with the penalties at that table. (correct me if I am wrong, my PF knowledge is not that high).

But that attack is an AoO, not a TWF attack nor a dual-wielding attack. Would there be still penalties of TWF on those? For example, if I am using a heavy shield, when I use my Active Defense ability with Smashing Counter, will be getting a -10 to that attack if I lack TWF? Or is it something else?

Might be a silly question but if you can make it a bit more clearer I would really appreciate it.

[stack]

Typed that one early and on my phone, 'also' was extraneous. TWF penalties would not apply in my understanding.

As for shield bashes always being off-hand, I recall discussions of that coming up in the past. I believe shield bash attacks can be made as a 'normal' weapon, but I do not have the relevant citations at my fingertips.

[Rungo]

At the moment, it is mentioned both ways; off-hand in weapon description but just one-handed in the armour description. According to the internet the latter is supposed to be the correct one, with the off-hand stuff being removed by errata to the books. I can't find that exact errata though, so no promises.

In any case, the Shield and Equipment spheres make 'dual-shielding' (one for defence, one for bashing) an interesting option. A bit too talent-intensive to be entirely practical, but a fun mental image either way. Bonus points if you do it with two Tower Shields for massive damage and pretend to be one of these jerks.

[RegalKain]

I apologize, I tried to search the thread, perhaps I didn't use the proper keywords, so again, I apologize if this was asked before.

If I am a Blacksmith who has access to Thunderous Blows, as well as having the Snipe Sphere and Shattering Shot Talent, does that mean I can then make a Deadly Shot (Apply it's damage bonus to the Sunder attempt) as well as Thunder Blows? Or would I simply not get the Deadly Shot bonus damage? (Or would Thunder Blows not apply to it despite it being a Sunder attempt.) I'm just a bit curious, as it seems with Barrage, Sniper, Shattering Shot, Breaking Blast and Blacksmith you could rather quickly just break everything forever. Thanks ahead of time for the answers.

[NomGarret]

Aside from Barrage and Deadly Shot not stacking as they are both special attack actions, I’m pretty sure that all works.

[EldritchWeaver]

Looking over the Dual Blade description I noticed one lack of information: If you don't split the weapon, what are its stats?

Edit: I've seen the table. Is that maybe the normal damage?

[Ssalarn]

Aside from Barrage and Deadly Shot not stacking as they are both special attack actions, I’m pretty sure that all works.

^^ This.
Deadly Shot and Barrage are a one or the other thing, but two of our playtest blacksmiths actually used Thunderous Blows at range as their primary attack method, one with pistols and one with a heavy crossbow.

[RegalKain]

^^ This.
Deadly Shot and Barrage are a one or the other thing, but two of our playtest blacksmiths actually used Thunderous Blows at range as their primary attack method, one with pistols and one with a heavy crossbow.

Aside from Barrage and Deadly Shot not stacking as they are both special attack actions, I’m pretty sure that all works.

Thanks for the info! Kinda spaced on the both being special actions thing. I absolutely love the Blacksmith class and our party needs a ranged person. So I wasn't sure if it synergized like I was thinking or not. Good to know though. :)

[N. Jolly]

Looking over the Dual Blade description I noticed one lack of information: If you don't split the weapon, what are its stats?

Edit: I've seen the table. Is that maybe the normal damage?

Yeah, it normally does 2d6 damage for medium characters if you don't split it.

[kkplx]

1. Can Unarmored Training stack with the Symbiat's Battlefield Sense increase in AC?


2. What does and what does not constitute "the AC bonus class feature of the monk or similar abilities."