General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

[Rynjin]

I've been thinking of getting into Shadowrun for years now, and may have a chance to start up a game soon.

What's the best edition to start with? 5th or is one of the earlier ones widely considered more interesting in some way?

[DeTess]

I've been thinking of getting into Shadowrun for years now, and may have a chance to start up a game soon.

What's the best edition to start with? 5th or is one of the earlier ones widely considered more interesting in some way?

From comments on this forum, I think 4th is considered superior to 5th, but I've only played 5th. 5th is quite playable in my experience if you've got a DM willing to make some on-the-spot calls regarding the more confusing parts. I think it's also helpful if you let everyone read the hacking rules, and then without the book for reference talk through those rules as you understand them, and use that version over the book's version :P

[Lord Torath]

I've been thinking of getting into Shadowrun for years now, and may have a chance to start up a game soon.

What's the best edition to start with? 5th or is one of the earlier ones widely considered more interesting in some way?

2nd (and 1st) has the best fluff, hands down. As far as mechanics, I'm partial to 2nd (with just a hint of 3rd), but but my general understanding is that they are all just differently bad. 5th is probably a good idea just because it's the current version, so it may be easier to acquire rulebooks.

[LibraryOgre]

2nd (and 1st) has the best fluff, hands down. As far as mechanics, I'm partial to 2nd (with just a hint of 3rd), but but my general understanding is that they are all just differently bad. 5th is probably a good idea just because it's the current version, so it may be easier to acquire rulebooks.

*1st and 2nd had the best fluff, with 2nd, IMO, having slightly better mechanics of the 2.
*3rd has somewhat lackluster, mechanically-focused supplements, but I recall its mechanics to be largely the same as 2, but with more knowledge skills (I may be misremembering; it's been a long time)
*4th has really different mechanics than the previous 3, including changing the number of attributes and the like. While previous editions use Skill + Pool to make dice pools, 4e uses the more common Attribute + Skill method.
*I know nothing about 5.

In all cases, there's a lot of subsystems... magic is different from decking/hacking is different from rigging.

[Rynjin]

So, maybe better to use the mechanics from 5th, but use the lore books from 1st/2nd? That sounds doable.

[Delta]

So, maybe better to use the mechanics from 5th, but use the lore books from 1st/2nd? That sounds doable.

There is actually a sourcebook specificially for that, to run SR5 in 2050.

[Rynjin]

Do you know what it's called?

[Telwar]

Do you know what it's called?

Shadowrun 2050 (no, really).

It's actually for 4e (20th Anniversary edition), not 5e.

[Delta]

Ah, okay then I thought it was for 5. Honestly, if you can get your hands on a 20A core book, that's not a half bad way to start either, I think a lot of the stuff they added in 5 wasn't really that necessary IMO.

[Telwar]

Ja, while I got basically everything from 5e, I never saw a reason to run it over 4e. And the 20A edition is pretty nice.

Though a note...the 1e/2e fluff books are still extremely useful. I ran a 4e campaign set in FDC some time ago (...WAY longer than I thought, now that I think about it), and while there's a write-up of FDC in Conspiracy Theories, I still had to pull out the old 1e Neo-Anarchist's Guide to North America for more details.

[Ignimortis]

A bit of advice - if you do run 4e, ban narrow autofire and increase all weapons' DV by 2 or so to compensate. 4e was a full-auto-fest because of their narrow autofire rules, while 5e fixed that and allows you to actually play a "one shot, one kill" character without gimping yourself too much.

[Dimers]

That sounds like a playstyle preference. Me, I think unloading a full-auto weapon into somebody should hurt them more than a single shot from a more powerful gun (although frankly both should easily be able to put down the victim in the space of a single Complex Action).

There are reasons to prefer other guns and combat styles, anyway. Legality. Concealability. Noise that attracts attention or gives away your position. Encumbrance. Lower attack penalties. Flexibility on-the-fly. Cost. Availability.

[Ignimortis]

That sounds like a playstyle preference. Me, I think unloading a full-auto weapon into somebody should hurt them more than a single shot from a more powerful gun (although frankly both should easily be able to put down the victim in the space of a single Complex Action).

There are reasons to prefer other guns and combat styles, anyway. Legality. Concealability. Noise that attracts attention or gives away your position. Encumbrance. Lower attack penalties. Flexibility on-the-fly. Cost. Availability.

Ingram Smartgun or Steyr TMP aren't that much harder to hide than an Ares Predator or even Ruger Warhawk, but the former deal 13-14P from a full-auto narrow fire, and the latter is 5P/6P. Their availability and legality are on the same scale (less than 12, both aren't F), too. If you hit someone with 1 net hit with a full-auto salvo, they usually died, and if you hit someone with a .50 handgun with 1 net hit, they usually lived.

Also 4e doesn't do continuous recoil, and getting 10 RC is very much possible. Silencers? Machine pistols can take them, revolvers can't (CRB says so). Small guns capable of autofire were go-to weapons in 4e.

From a mechanical perspective, there is absolutely no reason (other than ammo consumption, but that doesn't matter to anyone higher up than street scum) to invest in Pistols and pack a Predator instead of investing into Automatics and picking up a Steyr TMP. It also allows you to pick up a FN HAR and have a long-range weapon capable of 15P shots.

[Dimers]

I think you're overestimating a typical PC's skill level. +9 to DV is great, but -9 to your attack pool hurts. Less so if you're fighting mooks (as will often by the case), but it's not the mooks you have to worry about, it's the people with skill equivalent to yours ... skill in, say, Dodge.

I agree that you can reduce autofire weapons' downsides to a much greater extent than you can improve SA or SS weapons, but the downsides do exist.

[druid91]

Not really edition dependent, but more of a lore thing.

So, Possession spirits need vessels. Preferably prepared ones. But while the general examples given are distinct objects, like a gun, corpse, car, or person.... What about say, a pool of water for a water spirit?

Or a storm for a particularly powerful spirit of the air?

[LibraryOgre]

Those read less as "objects to be possessed" and more as "manifestations of the spirit."

[DigoDragon]

I once had a nasty water spirit inhabit a swimming pool. Got close to drowning two runners before they banished the thing.

I do say, haven't seen a spirit in a gun concept before. Thought they prefer objects that are not highly refined.

[druid91]

I once had a nasty water spirit inhabit a swimming pool. Got close to drowning two runners before they banished the thing.

I do say, haven't seen a spirit in a gun concept before. Thought they prefer objects that are not highly refined.

They do. But if you consecrate the gun they can still manage it just fine and make the gun stronger.

After all, one of the examples for golems is a golem made out of space age metals.

[DigoDragon]

They do. But if you consecrate the gun they can still manage it just fine and make the gun stronger.

After all, one of the examples for golems is a golem made out of space age metals.

Huh, learned something new. Does that mean you could get a "ghost in the machine" situation by putting a spirit in say, a commlink?

[Eurus]

Is there any official guidance on what chemicals can be produced by a Chemical Gland, or is it just DM fiat to determine what counts as "naturally occurring"? On a related note, is it possible to connect a stinger implant to an auto-injector instead of a gland, or to just refill it manually?

[Akisa]

So another game is starting up and I opted to do a burnout adept

So the group already has 3 prototype human or what the group is calling vatjobs. So I'm wondering what megacorp would have made my character, and perhaps some suggestions to improve her.

[Lord Torath]

One of my players has acquired a Gunnery Facility. What kinds of weapons and ammo would he be able to manufacture? Certainly anything requiring the gunnery skill to use, so that'd be assault cannons, missile launchers, missiles, etc.

What about grenades? Explosives? Other stuff I haven't thought of yet?

[LibraryOgre]

One of my players has acquired a Gunnery Facility. What kinds of weapons and ammo would he be able to manufacture? Certainly anything requiring the gunnery skill to use, so that'd be assault cannons, missile launchers, missiles, etc.

What about grenades? Explosives? Other stuff I haven't thought of yet?

IIRC, it goes Kit -> Shop -> Facility, right?

With a gunnery facility, I'd be hard pressed to put limits on what could be made, provided it goes boom; I might put occasional TN modifiers on some things (q.v. like making Grenades, which technically needs Explosives gear), but a Gunnery Facility should be able to handle it pretty well. I mean, a Gunnery facility can make the brains for missiles, so... the sky's kind of the limit.

[Lord Torath]

He's got an attached Firearms shop, so yeah, if he can get the specs for it, I think he can build it.

I foresee everyone on the team packing APDS ammo soon...

[LibraryOgre]

He's got an attached Firearms shop, so yeah, if he can get the specs for it, I think he can build it.

I foresee everyone on the team packing APDS ammo soon...

I foresee everyone in the team packing Panther Cannons with explosive APDS ammo, soon. ;-)

[Akisa]

Wait there is explosive APDS rounds?

[Lord Torath]

Wait there is explosive APDS rounds?

Not until my player comes up with the idea and convinces me they're feasible. HEAV (High Explosive Anti-Vehicle) missiles could qualify, I suppose. I think Mark Hall's just being hyperbolic.

I seriously doubt my players are all going to want Panther cannons. My decker favors sniper rifles, the mage carries a shotgun, the rigger packs sniper rifles on her drones (Doberman and Rotodrone), the phys-adept has a bow (and will ultimately upgrade to the Barton^TM System.

I do foresee them installing a Vigilant Rotary Autocannon on their Bulldog step van/command vehicle, though. Also, I'll probably let them get some of the gun designs that aren't available on the market yet (Fields of Fire isn't available to the players for another 6 in-game months) if they want to go on a specific run for them.

[LibraryOgre]

Wait there is explosive APDS rounds?

A way to say "Frag Off" to the Star in style.

[Telok]

A way to say "Frag Off" to the Star in style.

Also a way to become target priority number one.

[Lord Torath]

Is there any guidance for how long it takes to manufacture different types of ammo? I know there are gun design rules, which presumably include fabrication times. Anything for ammo?