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  1. - Top - End - #1111
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    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Let's Read: The Dungeons and Dragons 5e Monster Manual!

    Gold Dragon

    If the red dragon is the ultimate Big Bad of D&D lore, then the gold dragon is the ultimate Big Good. Paragons of virtue and law, they've been used as quest-givers for an eternity. But do they deserve their golden crown?

    Art

    I love this piece, but for different reasons than the copper's. The sails really do help set the gold apart, and its golden color really shines (hah) through here--many depictions just look sort of yellow, but here it's easy to imagine one being blinding in the sunlight.

    The reason I really love it, though, is the face. On the alien face of a dragon, the artist has managed to perfectly capture a sense of judicious wisdom and the weight of the world on the dragon's shoulders. This dragon looks kingly--perfect for a king among dragons.

    Purpose and Tactics

    I'm a little disappointed here. First off, I really wanted these guys to be colossal--it kind of weirds me out that there are things bigger than the most magestic dragons in the D&D universe. The fire breath is a little meh; the weakening breath will screw half the party and not even bother the other half--which is, coincidentally, the half that's better equipped to deal with a flying monster like this one.

    Fluff

    The gold dragon, traditionally, has been the grim and stoic hero--that doesn't change here. Again, I get a very regal sense from the description. It's also nice that they emphasize how much the gold likes to keep to itself, which helps counteract the fact that these are likely the worst offenders in the Elminster department.

    An interesting twist is the dream angle. These are clearly the dragons of dream, able to create dream realms so real that they can send an enemy to one for a short time. I'm not sure how that lines up with everything else, but it certainly gives us some hooks to work with. Oddly, between that, its natural reclusiveness, and the mists of the lair, it's also easy to imagine them as the dragons most likely to be found in the Feywild.

    Also, they eat treasure. That's... weird, but certainly inspiring.

    Hooks

    The last time anyone saw the Key of Laein--the sole artifact capable of breaching the gates of Drakor the Wicked's castle--it was in the possession of Myromanix the Great... who lairs in the Feywild. Do the adventurers dare to brave this twisted realm to find a dragon who does not want to be found?

    Two copper dragons have been squabbling over a treasure trove, and Oldhamtown is caught in the crossfire. Who could possibly mediate such a dispute--and where might they be found?

    All of your dreams lately have featured an old, kingly man with golden eyes emerging from the mists to warn you of a great evil. Who is this mysterious figure, and why has he chosen you?

    Verdict

    One of the most classic allies for ages is given the due it deserves here--and with enough twists to keep it from being boring or old.

  2. - Top - End - #1112
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    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Let's Read: The Dungeons and Dragons 5e Monster Manual!

    Silver Dragon

    A confession: I have a serious bone to pick with one of the most popular uses of the silver dragon, so I may be coming in a little biased here. Nevertheless, I'll give it a go--after all, they're the most commonly used metallics outside golds.

    Art

    Okay, this art is objectively good--I love the pose, and the trees and mist give me a really good sense of scale. Drawing silver is a little tough, but the artist has basically come through here. It also does a good job of not looking too much like any other dragon.

    With that said, though, I can't take it seriously. Look at the ridge and the spikes, and just imagine it saying in a typical punk voice, "What's up, dudes?!"

    Purpose and Tactics

    Paralyzing. Breath. A 90-foot cone of Con DC 24 Paralyzing Breath.

    If those words don't scare you, you're not taking the threat seriously enough. This paralysis lasts for ten full rounds and completely locks down a party--and getting damaged doesn't break it. You want an encounter with the possibility of TPKs? This is it.

    Fluff

    In the past few write-ups, there's one metallic ability I've not touched on at all: polymorphing into humanoid or animal form. They can all do it, I and hate it. For decades, bad GMs have been punishing players that go off their railroad plot ort that they perceive as doing evil (aka things they don't like) with "That person turns into a dragon and eats you!" It's a cheap trick, it ruins immersion, and even when it's used well is incredibly prone to the Elminster effect.

    Silver dragons are all about that.

    It's really, really hard for me to like a dragon that just spends all its time not being a dragon. It's cool basically once, and then it's annoying. Almost this entire entry is about the silver dragon's humanoid fetish, which tells me very little about what the dragons themselves are actually like. It seems mostly set up to justify why a DM might have a character turn out to be a dragon in the first place, and does a terrible job of explaining a silver dragon qua silver dragon. It doesn't help that the lair descriptions make it sound like a cloud/snow dragon, which isn't incorporated into the rest of the writeup at all.

    Hooks

    Why are all the dragon hunters after your mentor? (Because he's secretly a dragon.)

    How does the quiet village sage know so very much about wars fought hundreds of years ago? (Also a dragon.)

    A sage expert on human civilizations of ages past lives alone on a cold mountain peak in the ruins of an ancient castle. Why is he there? How does he protect himself? (You guessed it--dragon.)

    Verdict

    As I've said: I have a strong bias against silvers because of how I've seen them used in the past. But with that said? This book puts all its chips on that use, making the silver a bit of a one-trick pony. With every other metallic able to do this equally well, that's a losing bet.

  3. - Top - End - #1113
    Ettin in the Playground
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    i would say a defining characteristic of silver dragons would be that they are more curious about humanity than most dragons. they seem less obsessed with a lair and a hoard. of all the dragons, they are the most likely to be found among humanoids, the most likely to get involved in their affairs, the most likely to have a relationship with those humanoids... basically, they are the most "human" of all the dragons. perhaps the thing they "hoard" is friendships, and it is simply much easier for them to make friends amongst the mortal races than in dragon society.

    i would also speculate that this leads to them not only being encountered more often, but also results in them having a much higher mortality rate.

  4. - Top - End - #1114
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    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Let's Read: The Dungeons and Dragons 5e Monster Manual!

    But that still tells me absolutely nothing about what a silver dragon does when it's not polymorphed into a human or hanging around them.

    Just as an example: what's its relationship with ice and snow? I got a great idea of how gold dragons relate to dreams; why can't I have even a tidbit about the place where the silver lives? I have no idea about anything to do with silver dragons that doesn't somehow relate to humanoids.

  5. - Top - End - #1115
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    Flumph

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    Default Re: Let's Read: The Dungeons and Dragons 5e Monster Manual!

    For every Elminster, there is a Szass Tam. Not to mention mages from ancient Netheril that refused to enter the Kingdom of the dead when Karsus committed his act of ultimate hubris. The Vrael Oro manipulate humankind from the shadows, and sometimes, those with good intentions can fall far, such as Sammaster.

    And speaking of Sammaster, lets look at his invention...

    The Dracolich

    Appearance

    The skeletal blue that serves for the artwork doesn't really look all that fearsome, and it lacks the fiery points of light in its eyes that were described in earlier editions. And unlike the depictions of the beast in 2e (which were described as generally retaining the form of the dragon pre transformation, the lore now says the appearance is always skeletal.

    Lore

    Speaking of the lore, the Dracolich shows the problem of making FR, or at least a diet version of it, the default setting for 5e, while also attempting to make a "one size fits all" monster manual, and in taking a monster so linked to a certain campaign setting. In 2 and 3.5, the Dracolich was the brainchild of the mad mage Sammaster, formerly one of Mystra's chosen, in order to forfill a prophecy that he had mistranslated as "And naught will be left save shattered thrones. But the dead dragons shall rule to world entire, and..."

    Which would have made for excellent flavour text, but while the lore goes on about cultists, there is no mention of the Cult of the Dragon, nor a sidebar about the cult inself (one of the most widespread in that setting). The regent needed for the transformation is mentioned, but missed out on are two ingredients which really should have been touched upon in the description. The first, blood of a vampire, would have made for some pretty interesting scenarios - a party having to protect a vampire from cultists, or cultists manipulating a vampire in order to have a supply of the regent for when the dragon consents to the transformation. The other ingredient that should have been mentioned is the Potion of Evil Dragon Control (which was also implied to give cultists a measure of control over the Dracolich).


    Mechanics

    In past editions, a Dracolich could control undead once every three days (there would have been no shortage of bodies thanks to the cult), and combined with increased resistance and the hybrid creatures that the cult engendered, this made the dracolich a pretty formidable opponent, even more so with a fear aura that was stronger than the base dragon with a chance of paralysis. Now, the fear aura is the same, along with the same INT and WIS scores as the base dragon, which goes against the lore stating that it is fiendishly intelligent - considering this, shouldn't it get a nice boost to either wisdom and/or intelligence to fit the description? Also gone from earlier editions is the augmented breath weapon, which is the same as the base dragon and has no extra damage. Is the +4 increase on the challenge rating really justified? I don't think so.

    Verdict

    The 5e Dracolich feels, to all intents and purposes, like a normal dragon with a few added resistances, immunities and condition immunities. Without the undead control and missing the FR lore (though hopefully that will be added if WoTC bring out a 5e Draconomicon), the 5e Dracolich is a letdown.
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  6. - Top - End - #1116
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    Default Re: Let's Read: The Dungeons and Dragons 5e Monster Manual!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Sun Gnome View Post
    Verdict

    The 5e Dracolich feels, to all intents and purposes, like a normal dragon with a few added resistances, immunities and condition immunities. Without the undead control and missing the FR lore (though hopefully that will be added if WoTC bring out a 5e Draconomicon), the 5e Dracolich is a letdown.
    Having jumped in from 5e, I don't know how the Dracolich was handled in other editions, but I more or less agree with this. TBH I don't like the combination of Magical Resistance and Legendary Resistance either - this guy makes the Casters in the party all feel really futile, and in a way that isn't very fun.

    I really do hope the MM3 (or whatever it's gonna be called) comes out soon and fills in the gaps, just like how Volo's did an amazing job with illustrating the cultures of Orcs and the mindsets of Beholders.
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    Only on a DnD forum would discussing the methods for jamming a T-Rex into a 10x10x10 box be a thing.
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  7. - Top - End - #1117
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    Default Re: Let's Read: The Dungeons and Dragons 5e Monster Manual!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gastronomie View Post
    I used to be really concerned with the problem concerning Metallic Dragons and why they don't solve all the problems mortals face. Then I realized we're doing basically the same thing, and it suddenly seemed to be natural.We citizens of the industrialized countries know that there are many poor people suffering all across the globe. In fact, you don't even need to go to a different country to take a look at all the suffering; chances are there's a district like that in your town
    ...
    The same probably applies to the Metallic Dragons. They hear some news of humanoid settlements being raided by orcs far away. Indeed they do have the power required to stop them; but they never actually will. Maybe they're lazy. Maybe they're too self-concerned (Reason 4 by Shining Wrath). Or maybe they just think it's something the wind tells them, more of a faraway dream than reality, just like how we ignore the news showing people suffering from poverty in Africa.
    I go with a combination of this and rarity. A rampaging orc horde doesn't exist in the same area as a crusading silver dragon. But there aren't very many crusading silver dragons and there are a lot of areas to cover. Plus the ones that travel around trying to obviously right all wrongs end up running into red dragons or high level evil adventurers or whatever other strong opponents want to get their hands on a dragon's horde or make reagents out of its body sooner than the ones that settle an area or use subtlety.
    Last edited by ShikomeKidoMi; 2016-12-26 at 05:51 AM.

  8. - Top - End - #1118
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    Flumph

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    Default Re: Let's Read: The Dungeons and Dragons 5e Monster Manual!

    And for the record, I would have loved to have seen this as the Dracolich in the Monster Manual (as well as a Shadow Dragon that was not merely a chromatic dragon with a few extra resistances and features, but its own thing like in 2 and 3.5)

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    Gnome Wizard by DarkCorax

  9. - Top - End - #1119
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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Let's Read: The Dungeons and Dragons 5e Monster Manual!

    Excellent summaries, tsuyoshikentsu and Dark Sun Gnome.


    I appreciate that big solo monsters needs a means to not be taken out of the fight with a single bad roll on a save-or-suck, but I think Legendary Resistance is generally a rubbish band-aid to that problem, because it becomes about attrition ("I'll pop some Level one debuffs just to use up their LR") which strikes me as a boring use of an action or spell-slot.

    Out of curiosity, has anyone used a metallic dragon as an ally in their campaign? How did it work?

    My players tend to be pretty cut-throat with their employers or patrons. Often literally. (There was a Paladin* they banished to the Abyss when he tried to arrest them...) If their patron had a big pile of treasure and was quite superior, they'd definitely start plotting.

    *The Paladin was also something of a villain.
    Last edited by MrConsideration; 2016-12-26 at 02:16 PM.
    Here is my DIY D&D blog, where I post my thoughts and homebrew ideas, mainly for 5e. Currently I'm working on Sea Wolves, an Age of Sail setting undergoing systems collapse.


    Here is where I posted my Let's Read of the 5e Monster Manual and here are my current Monster Reviews.

  10. - Top - End - #1120
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    ShikomeKidoMi's Avatar

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    Default Re: Let's Read: The Dungeons and Dragons 5e Monster Manual!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Sun Gnome View Post
    And for the record, I would have loved to have seen this as the Dracolich in the Monster Manual (as well as a Shadow Dragon that was not merely a chromatic dragon with a few extra resistances and features, but its own thing like in 2 and 3.5)
    I was annoyed by the transformation of Shadow Dragon to a template, as well. It's better to let the planar dragons be their own things, rather than templates on Prime Material ones.

  11. - Top - End - #1121
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    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Let's Read: The Dungeons and Dragons 5e Monster Manual!

    Quote Originally Posted by MrConsideration View Post
    Out of curiosity, has anyone used a metallic dragon as an ally in their campaign? How did it work?
    I was actually a little sad that Forum Explorer picked up Brass before I could, because I actually very recently gave a level 3 party an ancient brass dragon contact.

    While on paper the whole CR20 kender thing looks awful, and it definitely is for any party that could reasonably take one on, to a party that would get wiped in one round it's actually quite entertaining: the dragon annoys them all to death but they are terrified of it figuring that out. So they have to smile and nod and go, "Dear Lord, let him please not figure out how much I hate him," quietly through gritted teeth. And then run very, very far away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Sun Gnome View Post
    Verdict

    The 5e Dracolich feels, to all intents and purposes, like a normal dragon with a few added resistances, immunities and condition immunities. Without the undead control and missing the FR lore (though hopefully that will be added if WoTC bring out a 5e Draconomicon), the 5e Dracolich is a letdown.
    With all due respect to your writeup--and I certainly understand where you're coming from regarding the lore--I vehemently disagree.

    The dracolich is one of the best and most dramatic twists a high-level party can face. They work hard to bring down their draconic foe, he barely escapes and--badly wounded--undergoes the hideously risky ritual to become a dracolich. Now the BBEG is a little tougher, a little harder to take out, and has a built-in multiplanar quest (the phylactery gem) to finish off the top end of a campaign.

    Another interesting possibility? The dracolich is in no way limited to evil dragons only. Some of the chromatics are certainly narcissistic enough to refuse to die--copper dragons spring immediately to mind, and I could definitely see a bronze who just hadn't finished its fight against evil and didn't trust anyone but itself. No enemy can be as difficult to face as one of the most noble creatures in existence corrupted... especially if that being is a former ally.

    One more possible twist, regarding the mechanics--if you're not already using it, the dracolich is a perfect excuse to give dragons innate spellcasting. It makes the template much more of a power-up, as well as giving the dracolich's story a far more interesting twist. Eternal life is already tempting enough to most dragons, but what if it was also the only way for them to gain power over magic? Suddenly the deal becomes much more attractive.

  12. - Top - End - #1122
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    NecromancerGirl

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    Shadow Dragon

    One of the most terrifying monsters of editions past, the Shadow Dragon here is not a unique planar variant but a template. How does this change this fearsome beastie--and is it for better, or for worse?

    Art

    The art doesn't give a great sense of scale (no pun intended), but that may be intentional as any size of dragon can become a shadow dragon. What's actually a little irritating, though, isn't the art itself but the entry's placement in the book--this is clearly meant to be a comparative piece, but we haven't seen the normal true dragons yet. By coming before them in the book, it undermines itself a bit.

    Purpose and Tactics

    So let's get one thing straight: in 5E, shadows at any level are absolutely horrifying.

    They deal STR damage. That means that even at level 20 a wizard basically only has 8 HP against them, and they deal 1d4 damage. I damn near wiped a fifth-level party with a group of eight shadows recently because I just didn't understand how overpowering they are in packs. And this dragon? This dragon makes them with its breath.

    Depending on the circumstances, that's bad enough for a party vs. dragon fight: even a couple of shadows, while not particularly hard to deal with per se, have to be dealt with immediately and that takes heat off the dragon. But you know what's worse? Shadows also make more shadows. Imagine the party fighting a shadow dragon in a village. The dragon breathes its 90-foot cone of necrotic shadow... at the villagers, who all instantly die. A lot of villagers fit in a 90-foot cone. That's a lot of shadows. And then those shadows start attacking the other villagers....

    Oh, by the way--this is another template that's not for evil dragons only. Tell me: how do you feel about the above scenario happening after the entire party has been hit by a silver dragon's paralyzing breath?

    If that wasn't bad enough this dragon gets Roguelike stealth and can hide as a bonus action. Sure, it has weakness to to the sun, but it also has resistance to literally almost everything when in the dark. And a monster like this should never be fought anywhere but in the dark.

    In past editions, shadow dragons usually breathed negative levels. In the right surroundings, they're just as dangerous here.

    Fluff

    In past editions, shadow dragons were... dragons from the Shadow Plane. Here, they've got a much more interesting backstory. Sure, they can be from the shadow plane--but they are also what happens to a dragon that spends too much time on the Shadow Plane. They become twisted and corrupted, and turn into basically horror movie monsters. What's even more delicious is that they don't even have to be in the Shadowfell for this to happen--the text explicitly call out ancients who sleep too near Shadowfell portals. How's that for horror movie corruption?

    As I mentioned above, metallics can fall victim to this. You want great plot hooks? Here are some ready-made ones: "Some shadow dragons attempt to lure other creatures from the mortal realm back to the Shadowfell to keep them company, at least until they tire of their guests and devour them." This works so insanely well with a lot of the metallic lore that almost every plot hook I'm going to offer is a metallic one.

    One final thought: there aren't dragons on Ravenloft. But as a huge lover of Ravenloft, if I wanted to add a dragon on Ravenloft? This would fit right in.

    Hooks

    The Dark Scourge's wings bring destruction to the countryside, with entire villages being turned into packs of undead monstrosities. Are the heroes even strong enough to take this threat on?

    Aldroax the Brass always loved talking to his guests before the Shadowfell took hold, but now he has to kidnap them from the Material Plane--and kills them when they cease to amuse him. Can the party keep this ancient force entertained long enough to find an escape and save their own lives?

    A murderer stalks the land. In her wake she leaves horrible undead monstrosities, twisted reflections of her victims. She's been seen several times--but always looks different to those who see her. The one thing linking all of her victims is that they're humanoids: she seems to have a deathly fascination with them. Who is this mysterious killer? (A silver shadow dragon!)

    The heroes are celebrated dragonslayers, able to tangle with any dragon in the land. But on their way home from their latest kill, a darkness falls over them... and then, through the clinging mist, comes the sound of beating wings...

    Verdict

    Threatening. Horrifying. A mere template? No--if you want a villain that's insidious instead of blunt, this is everything such a monster could ever be.

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    Dragon Turtle

    The Dragon Turtle is one of those peculiar creatures that has been in the game since the days of THACO and 1d4 hit points, yet I have never heard of anyone using one. This is probably primarily because aquatic campaigns, and therefore aquatic baddies, are fairly rare in most people’s gaming. Additionally, our terrible testudines is packing a pretty hefty (and potentially undeserved – more on that later) CR17, meaning it will only show up to hassle high-level parties.

    I personally adore the sea-monster trope, and the Dragon Turtle is competing with some stiff competition in the Kraken or Sea Serpent. Here be monsters…

    Art



    Allow me to share a fairly pointless niggle or pet-hate. That ship is quite clearly from the later days of the Age of Sail and resembles something from around the time of the Spanish Armada. It clearly has areas for cannon – and fairly advanced, slim cannon at that - in a game that assumes gunpowder is yet to be discovered. This is stupid and inconsistent.

    The actual artwork is a nice effort at imbuing the Dragon Turtle with some menace: its attacking an unaware ship, about to snap the rudder, and the art is designed to give the whole piece a sense of scale. There’s a shark helpfully drifting past to show you that the Dragon Turtle is bigger than a shark and nonplussed by a shark.

    My problem is that this all seems a little staid; a little formulaic. I like my seas brooding and romantic; my monstrosities thrashing and terrible. It’s a boring composition. I much prefer the original execution.

    It’s also not really giving me much ‘Dragon’ to work with. It’s just a really big turtle, and turtles hardly inspire terror.

    Purpose and Tactics

    It’s a big monster, with enough intelligence to communicate and be a tool. In your campaign, you could make it a controllable minion of a maritime big bad (essentially the plot of that Pirates of the Caribbean film with the Scottish Mind Flayer) or a major part of a naval attacking force. In this case, finding a method of destroying the Dragon Turtle (avoid fireballs, jump repeatedly on its head) could form part of your quest chain.

    It could also just turn up as you cross an ocean to attack the player’s ship. In battle, it seems more Michelangelo than monster, though. It has a big pile of hit-points and fairly high AC, and a multi-attack ability to nail your players. As mentioned with the Red Dragon, simply damage and toughness generally aren’t enough to make a fight, and the Dragon Turtle looks easy to vanquish for any vaguely prepared level 17 party. This is a party with epic spells – multiattack physical and fire damage aren’t going to cut it.

    It’s also weirdly slow. (40feet swim? What?)

    So it falls to the DM to jazz up this turtle and make it worthy of CR 17. The first way to do this is make the fight occur in water – not at sea, in the water – a Dragon Turtle should make short work with an initial multiattack of most ships, and ensure they’re taking on water. As the fight progresses, the players should be clinging to driftwood, lost barrels, ship fragments – and focussing as much on avoiding the depths as they are the Turtle. This also makes the Tail Attack’s knockback and prone abilities far more meaningful. I’d add an ability to grab party members in his jaws and subsequently drag them into the depths, so party members will be constantly struggling to combat this force of nature. As with the Red Dragon, use the Reach ability to ensure your Dragon Turtle is attacking from within the water and is outside of melee range and arguably obscured from view. Additionally, it has 120 feet of Darkvision and we’re angling for every advantage we can get, so make sure it’s a nocturnal turtle (nocturtle?).

    If you have a little more CR pennies in the bank, pairing it with a Marid or spellcaster of some kind will help enormously.

    Despite my complaints about Legendary Resistance, this creature needs it. Otherwise a single successful casting of say, Dominate Monster or Ottiluke’s Irresistible Dance ends the combat.

    Fluff
    There’s some interesting information on motivations: it covets treasure as much as a typical Dragon, and thus will drag wealthy ships beneath the waves. Additionally, they’re mercenaries or even mounts of intelligent aquatic creatures, giving you a plethora of potential plot hooks beyond the simple “We need a random encounter at sea” impulse. Some of the language here is quite beautiful, and would make for excellent in game description – especially the idea that sailors might mistake a turtle for the reflection of the moon, until….

    Plot Hooks
    The Most Serene Republic of Firtenzia has been closed out by its mightier rivals, and now its merchants are assaulted, boarded, blockaded and abused by its powerful maritime rivals. But there is rumour of a way to win back control of the seas…

    Your players, after weeks at sea, find a small island jutting from the water. After wandering on the island to search for food, they notice the movement of gentle breathing, and how far they are from land….

    Sultan Aquisul, The Most Magnificent Marid-King of the Hundred-Thousand Seas of the Plane of Water, needs a steed to pull his coral palanquin. Could your players tame Tetsuferrax, the legendary scourge of the seas?

    Verdict: I think this has the nucleus of a good idea but is one of the most poorly executed monsters in the entire book. Use a Kraken instead.
    Last edited by MrConsideration; 2016-12-27 at 11:00 AM.
    Here is my DIY D&D blog, where I post my thoughts and homebrew ideas, mainly for 5e. Currently I'm working on Sea Wolves, an Age of Sail setting undergoing systems collapse.


    Here is where I posted my Let's Read of the 5e Monster Manual and here are my current Monster Reviews.

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    Default Re: Let's Read: The Dungeons and Dragons 5e Monster Manual!

    If it makes you feel better, those aren't areas for cannons, they're areas for Wizards with Fireballs prepped
    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    We should try to make that a thing; I think it might help civility. Hey, GitP, let's try to make this a thing: when you're arguing optimization strategies, RAW-logic, and similar such things that you'd never actually use in a game, tag your post [THEORETICAL] and/or use green text

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    Default Re: Let's Read: The Dungeons and Dragons 5e Monster Manual!

    Wait, all five metallics at once? Wow, go away for a few days and the work just piles up.

    Quote Originally Posted by georgie_leech View Post
    If it makes you feel better, those aren't areas for cannons, they're areas for Wizards with Fireballs prepped
    I'd certainly use that. Also, the ships in Eberron explicitly have ballistae or catapults (what are they called aboard ship?) installed, so combining that with a few magically-inclined crewmen may make a pretty fearsome defense.
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  16. - Top - End - #1126
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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Let's Read: The Dungeons and Dragons 5e Monster Manual!

    Well, siege staves are canon (heh) in Eberron and kinda work like heavy guns, gunpowder weapons of some kind (bombards, I think... it's been a while since I've read it) were mentioned in Forge of War, though Keith Baker wasn't working on that one, and, depending on how you feel about nibbing things from DDO, Magefire Cannons may exist
    It's Eberron, not ebberon.
    It's not high magic, it's wide magic.
    And it's definitely not steampunk. The only time steam gets involved is when the fire and water elementals break loose.

  17. - Top - End - #1127
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    Default Re: Let's Read: The Dungeons and Dragons 5e Monster Manual!

    Quote Originally Posted by MrConsideration View Post
    In this case, finding a method of destroying the Dragon Turtle (avoid fireballs, jump repeatedly on its head) could form part of your quest chain.
    You are thinking of the dragon tortoise, which is found in volcanic regions of the Underdark and is known for taking control of a myconid colony after kidnapping its sovereign. The duergar are experts at defeating dragon tortoises, especially when using their Enlarge ability.

    It is too bad that didn't make it into 5e MM or Volo's.

  18. - Top - End - #1128
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    Default Re: Let's Read: The Dungeons and Dragons 5e Monster Manual!

    You know what has always irked me a bit? I can barely recall anytime where dragon turtles were little. No hatchling dragon turtles. No eggy turtle dragons. No... adolescent or juvenile dragon turtles...

    Folks, if we kill a dragon turtle... Does another just spawn back to full size somewhere? Or do we need to get more esoteric and cthonically insane here?

  19. - Top - End - #1129
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    Flumph

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    Default Re: Let's Read: The Dungeons and Dragons 5e Monster Manual!

    You are thinking of the dragon tortoise, which is found in volcanic regions of the Underdark and is known for taking control of a myconid colony after kidnapping its sovereign. The duergar are experts at defeating dragon tortoises, especially when using their Enlarge ability.
    How to do this subtly enough that the party does not realize what is going on initially?

    Goombas: Goblins reskinned. Perhaps a corrupted myconid spores used on koopas that fail King Koopa.

    Koopas: Kobolds

    Dry Bones: Skeletons that always come back. You can take time to make them difficult to come back, but they will respawn. Luckily they are kind of dumb so you have to be pretty close before they attack you.

    Hammer Bros: Kobold archers.

    Parakoopas: Flying Kobolds

    Paragoombas: Infected Parakoopas

    Magikoopa: Kobold Sorceror

    Other enemies can be ported over more or less as is.

  20. - Top - End - #1130
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    Quote Originally Posted by RazDelacroix View Post
    You know what has always irked me a bit? I can barely recall anytime where dragon turtles were little. No hatchling dragon turtles. No eggy turtle dragons. No... adolescent or juvenile dragon turtles...

    Folks, if we kill a dragon turtle... Does another just spawn back to full size somewhere? Or do we need to get more esoteric and cthonically insane here?
    The MM Dragon Turtles are the wyrmlings. The young look like islands; the adults look like continents. No one knows what an ancient dragon turtle looks like, but it's rumored to involve elephants and discs.

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    Default Re: Let's Read: The Dungeons and Dragons 5e Monster Manual!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mith View Post
    How to do this subtly enough that the party does not realize what is going on initially?
    Alas, the dragon turtle attracting this joke in the first place shows how difficult that would be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mith View Post
    Goombas: Goblins reskinned. Perhaps a corrupted myconid spores used on koopas that fail King Koopa.
    My idea was to just ignore the toad/goomba division of the mushroom people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mith View Post
    Koopas: Kobolds

    Dry Bones: Skeletons that always come back. You can take time to make them difficult to come back, but they will respawn. Luckily they are kind of dumb so you have to be pretty close before they attack you.

    Hammer Bros: Kobold archers.

    Parakoopas: Flying Kobolds

    Paragoombas: Infected Parakoopas

    Magikoopa: Kobold Sorceror
    Oh wow! I had not realised how well kobolds would complete the picture.

  22. - Top - End - #1132
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: Let's Read: The Dungeons and Dragons 5e Monster Manual!

    The Dragon Turtle is smart enough to attack the ship from below, as shown. Unless someone in a crow's nest is explicitly watching for it, a dragon turtle can take out the rudder, dive, and kill whoever comes to repair the rudder. Hunger and thirst can kill most crews that lack adventuring parties on board. For an adventuring party, the problem will be that to repair the rudder the turtle has to be defeated - underwater. And a dragon turtle can have minions of its own.
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  23. - Top - End - #1133
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    WhiteWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Let's Read: The Dungeons and Dragons 5e Monster Manual!

    Quote Originally Posted by tsuyoshikentsu View Post
    But that still tells me absolutely nothing about what a silver dragon does when it's not polymorphed into a human or hanging around them.

    Just as an example: what's its relationship with ice and snow? I got a great idea of how gold dragons relate to dreams; why can't I have even a tidbit about the place where the silver lives? I have no idea about anything to do with silver dragons that doesn't somehow relate to humanoids.
    I feel like Silver Dragons were supposed to be the "counterpart" to White Dragons in the same way Golds are to Reds, or Brasses are to Blues. Hence the shared relationship with ice and snow, and their willingness to work with other creatures.

    The problem is, as you've noticed, that none of the other fluff or mechanics line up in any meaningful way. Silver Dragons don't seem to spend most of their time in the Tundra. They don't dwell near their lairs, and they are intelligent and exceptionally sociable (although that could be "linking through opposites").

    I wish they'd made the connections between them clearer. Maybe Silver's could have been the "dumb" Metallics? Smaller and weaker than the rest, but hearts bursting with compassion lead them to help out the lesser races in whichever way they can. Whites make their lairs in the most desolate parts of the world; Silver's could be an "urban" dragon by contrast. They use their relative small size and shapeshifting to create a lair in the centers of civilization. Finally, like Whites, Silvers could like to collect "trophies". But instead of kills, they are mementos, keepsakes of all the good deeds they have done over the centuries, worthless to anyone but themselves. Their lair actions could all be effects related to manipulating a densely populated urban environment.

    Finally, give some "umph" to the shapeshifting by giving them an in-between form, similar to werewolves. Bigger and stronger, but still small enough to avoid detection if used sparingly in a city.

  24. - Top - End - #1134
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    Default Re: Let's Read: The Dungeons and Dragons 5e Monster Manual!

    Quote Originally Posted by RazDelacroix View Post
    You know what has always irked me a bit? I can barely recall anytime where dragon turtles were little. No hatchling dragon turtles. No eggy turtle dragons. No... adolescent or juvenile dragon turtles...

    Folks, if we kill a dragon turtle... Does another just spawn back to full size somewhere? Or do we need to get more esoteric and cthonically insane here?
    The main handwave is that they breed in the Elemental Plane of Water or some similarly inaccessible zone. Though I do like the idea of wyrmling and young dragon turtles being almost indistinguishable from adult normal turtles.
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  25. - Top - End - #1135
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Let's Read: The Dungeons and Dragons 5e Monster Manual!

    Quote Originally Posted by TripleD View Post
    I feel like Silver Dragons were supposed to be the "counterpart" to White Dragons in the same way Golds are to Reds, or Brasses are to Blues. Hence the shared relationship with ice and snow, and their willingness to work with other creatures.

    The problem is, as you've noticed, that none of the other fluff or mechanics line up in any meaningful way. Silver Dragons don't seem to spend most of their time in the Tundra. They don't dwell near their lairs, and they are intelligent and exceptionally sociable (although that could be "linking through opposites").
    This is actually incorrect. Silvers have always competed with Reds. Almost all the other dragons tend to like areas that don't see much of other dragon types.

    Blacks dwell in swamps, Blues deserts, Greens tall forests, Whites arctic areas, Brass plains, Bronze coasts, Copper dry hills and canyons. Golds are the odd ones out who will live anywhere as long as it's secluded.

    Both Silvers and Reds like Mountains with the only difference being that Silvers like high cold ones and fluff has stated they frequently come into conflict. Both due to shared habitat and opposite alignment.

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    Default Re: Let's Read: The Dungeons and Dragons 5e Monster Manual!

    I solved the boring Dracolich problem in the game I'm running with some former students of mine. All dragons are extinct, and there's exactly one Dracolich running around the setting: the reanimated corpse of Tiamat.
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  27. - Top - End - #1137
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    Flumph

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    Default Re: Let's Read: The Dungeons and Dragons 5e Monster Manual!

    Quote Originally Posted by tsuyoshikentsu View Post

    The dracolich is one of the best and most dramatic twists a high-level party can face. They work hard to bring down their draconic foe, he barely escapes and--badly wounded--undergoes the hideously risky ritual to become a dracolich. Now the BBEG is a little tougher, a little harder to take out, and has a built-in multiplanar quest (the phylactery gem) to finish off the top end of a campaign.

    Another interesting possibility? The dracolich is in no way limited to evil dragons only. Some of the chromatics are certainly narcissistic enough to refuse to die--copper dragons spring immediately to mind, and I could definitely see a bronze who just hadn't finished its fight against evil and didn't trust anyone but itself. No enemy can be as difficult to face as one of the most noble creatures in existence corrupted... especially if that being is a former ally.

    One more possible twist, regarding the mechanics--if you're not already using it, the dracolich is a perfect excuse to give dragons innate spellcasting. It makes the template much more of a power-up, as well as giving the dracolich's story a far more interesting twist. Eternal life is already tempting enough to most dragons, but what if it was also the only way for them to gain power over magic? Suddenly the deal becomes much more attractive.
    Shame none of those options were put in the MM. Those options, along with a panel about The Cult of the Dragon would have been excellent.

    I missed out the part in 2 and 3.5 where after the Dracolich is killed, its soul returns to the gemstone and can possess any reptillian carcass. After doing that, it becomes a proto dracolich then a full one after it devours 10 percent of its original body. Kicking myself for missing that bit out - the cult could take the gemstone to another area along with some body parts, and the Dracolich is back in the game.

    The extraplanar gemstone idea is pretty good, its just a shame that in the description, it says the gem must be on the same plane when the Dracolich dies in order for the soul to return to it, otherwise the soul passes into the afterlife (which wasn't the case in 2 and 3.5), so while an interplanar quest is possible, that complicates things.

    Its okay, I guess. But considering how awesome it was in previous editions, as well as the insanity of the Cult of the Dragon, It feels lacking. Here's hoping that changes with the next monster manual.
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  28. - Top - End - #1138
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    Default Re: Let's Read: The Dungeons and Dragons 5e Monster Manual!

    in 5E, shadows at any level are absolutely horrifying.
    While true, that way of looking at it is a little limiting. Shadows have been horrifying since the original D&D supplement, Greyhawk, in 1975.

    The only reason there's no Shadow Apocalypse is that they aren't driven to reproduce like movie-zombies and prefer to lair in quiet, dark places that are already abandoned rather than clearing areas out to live in. Of course, that preference doesn't matter much if a Shadow Dragon is creating them in a populated area like you suggested.
    Last edited by ShikomeKidoMi; 2016-12-28 at 07:21 AM.

  29. - Top - End - #1139
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    Default Re: Let's Read: The Dungeons and Dragons 5e Monster Manual!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Sun Gnome View Post
    The extraplanar gemstone idea is pretty good, its just a shame that in the description, it says the gem must be on the same plane when the Dracolich dies in order for the soul to return to it, otherwise the soul passes into the afterlife (which wasn't the case in 2 and 3.5), so while an interplanar quest is possible, that complicates things.
    No, no, no, that's what I mean. Think about it: how do you actually make that happen--especially if the dracolich can innately plane shift? I could definitely get a session out of that alone, possibly even a string of them.

  30. - Top - End - #1140
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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Let's Read: The Dungeons and Dragons 5e Monster Manual!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Sun Gnome View Post
    Is the +4 increase on the challenge rating really justified? I don't think so.
    Uh. The Blue Dracolich only has a +1 boost to CR not +4. Hell the Template does not even say you have to raise the Dragons challenge rating.

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