Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground #XXVIII

[Zipding]

Hey Amp, how many builds do we have submitted?

[Amphetryon]

Hey Amp, how many builds do we have submitted?

A whopping 2 so far.

[OMG PONIES]

We've still got some time; I'm taking every day I can.

[ExemplarofAvg]

How many Judges?

[flabort]

at least 5... I'm not willing to get an accurate count right now.

I can't work with this; Clay is unyeilding, and hard to sculpt with, but me trying to work this PrC is like a Clay-worker trying to work with solid granite. It just won't come.

[Venger]

at least 5... I'm not willing to get an accurate count right now.

I can't work with this; Clay is unyeilding, and hard to sculpt with, but me trying to work this PrC is like a Clay-worker trying to work with solid granite. It just won't come.

I agree with your general sentiment, but I would say that this PrC is more like ice. not only is it rigid and non-malleable, it is slippery and brittle as well. if one small mistake is made, it can ruin the whole sculpture unlike clay where you can score and slip and put on a new addition, if you crack the ice, it's all over.

[Gotterdammerung]

I agree with your general sentiment, but I would say that this PrC is more like ice. not only is it rigid and non-malleable, it is slippery and brittle as well. if one small mistake is made, it can ruin the whole sculpture unlike clay where you can score and slip and put on a new addition, if you crack the ice, it's all over.

That's why I used the secret ingredient to making Ice Sculptures...

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CHAINSAWWWWWW!

[Jeriah]

The babe with the power.

What power?

[Urpriest]

What power?

Why, the power of voodoo.

[Zipding]

Why, the power of voodoo.

Who do?

Yeah, I have nothing for this PrC, so I can't compete at all.

[Jeriah]

Who do?

You do.

I'm glad I came up with something then, even if it is crap.

[BobVosh]

at least 5... I'm not willing to get an accurate count right now.

I can't work with this; Clay is unyeilding, and hard to sculpt with, but me trying to work this PrC is like a Clay-worker trying to work with solid granite. It just won't come.

Solid granite...or frozen clay?

You do.

Do what?

[ExemplarofAvg]

Solid granite...or frozen clay?



Do what?

Remind me of a man.

[FyreByrd]

I have a build, pretty much completely done (formatting needs a bit of work)

My trouble is I did, then gave it a couple of days before having another look at it with fresh eyes, the fresh eyes saw that the build would actually be better with no levels of Cyro in it, so not sure I'll submit...I'll do a bit more thinking, before deadline however!

[Garwain]

Aah, I have a build submitted. Wanted to burn Frostburn in the process... Seemed like an appropriate ending for that book.

[Piggy Knowles]

Yeah, I've gone through two build stubs, and scratched both of them. One was a neat trick at best, but was too overly specific and required too much finagling just to make it work at all. The other one wasn't too bad, but it succeeded in spite of Cryokineticist, rather than because of it.

So long story short, I won't be competing. I'll try to post up judging criteria this evening.

[BobVosh]

If a character is useful in game with levels in this class, it is always in spite of the levels in this class.

Always.

[Gotterdammerung]

What are the rules on 2 or more entries? I sort of just had an idea for another entry and I want to know about the rules on multiple entries before I move past the brainstorm stage.

[Amphetryon]

What are the rules on 2 or more entries? I sort of just had an idea for another entry and I want to know about the rules on multiple entries before I move past the brainstorm stage.

They're allowed; we've had several who submitted more than one in the past, myself included.

[TheGeckoKing]

I'll have to bow out of this one. Like Piggy Knowles, my build gives Cryokineticist the finger and works in spite of the terribad class, rather than treat it like a PrC I actually want to take. On top of that, i've grown to dislike it anyway.

[Gotterdammerung]

They're allowed; we've had several who submitted more than one in the past, myself included.

Ok, good to know. I will try to rush in another one. It probably won't happen though. I went through 6 builds before I found the one entry that managed to work with Cryokineticist. It is incredibly tough to build with. Most angles end up either completely overshadowing cryo, or cryo is in direct war with the rest of the build, or it becomes harder and harder for cryo to justify its existance in the build (each draft of the builds had less and less levels of cryo until it was obvious that it just didn't earn the right to be in the build).

I stumbled upon an extra idea. It works on a story and roleplay angle. And it even works on a mechanical lvl. But after doing some light building it looks like it will fall into the last category of fail. I will keep working at it though. It would be nice to get the second entry done.

P.S. I hope you pick a more pleasurable choice for the next IC.

[gbprime]

P.S. I hope you pick a more pleasurable choice for the next IC.

That would be defeating the point of Iron Chef. Gourmet from slop.

[Gotterdammerung]

That would be defeating the point of Iron Chef. Gourmet from slop.

Yes, but there is a difference between

"Here, make something tasty out of these left over pieces of meat from the butchers!"

and

"Here, make something tasty out of this rancid maggot-infested dog I found dead on the side of the road!"

[Piggy Knowles]

OK, here's my judging criteria. Like most folks, I'll start at a 3.0, and then add or subtract from there.

Originality

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Let me preface this section by saying that I don't think originality is wholly contingent upon choice of class. Two builds can have the exact same class levels, and yet end up going in completely different directions. I also will not penalize you just because someone else has chosen the same class as you.

So what will gain you points? Use the abilities you have in fresh and interesting ways. Surprise me. Show me new combinations that I've never seen before. Meanwhile, using well-known builds will cause you to lose points.

Power

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There are two questions that will define how I rate a build's power. They are...

(1) How good is your build at its intended role?
(2) Will you stay relevant if your main "trick" does not work?

I don't expect every build to have 9th-level casting or manifesting, or to be able to bring the universe to its knees. However, if your build has a specific role or function, I expect you to be at least adequate at it. And if your build is a one-trick pony, it had better be a pretty good trick. I will deduct points if you can't function outside of a very limited set of parameters.

I'll also be looking for obvious ways your build could be improved (other than the most obvious "take fewer levels of Cryokineticist"). There's nothing wrong with sacrificing a little power for flavor, but if a choice makes you worse at your role, I will penalize for it. Just hope you make up the points in elegance or originality, I guess...

Finally, I don't plan to grade on a curve. I know this is a weak ingredient, but don't expect full points in Power if you've managed to just barely become adequate. Everyone's got the same ingredient to work with, after all.

Elegance

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Obscurity or using multitude of sources doesn't bother me, but for the love of Pelor, please cite your work! I am very familiar with the system, but I like to have the books in front of me when I'm reviewing a build. I also don't like too much mixing of setting-specific material. (Note that just because a class or feat appears in a setting book doesn't mean that I will consider it setting-specific; I'm referring to things like regional feats, feats and classes that involve certain setting-specific orders, etc.)

Now that that's out of the way... I don't mind dips, as long as they are reasonable and make sense. However, I will not ignore the "fluff" requirements of a class. If a prestige class requires you to be a member of the Wizards of the Unseen University and your build glosses over that requirement, expect to see a small deduction.

In any case, while I won't penalize for dips, I do like nice clean builds, where everything works in harmony, so you can pick up extra points that way. I will also give out small bonuses here if everything is written up cleanly, in an engaging manner. Nothing huge - the build is most important. But presentation DOES matter, and if you do a good job with it, I think you should be rewarded. I don't need three pages of backstory, but I do like to see more than a list of abilities.

I'm mildly cheese-tolerant - I don't mind characters being effective or using abilities in new and exciting ways, as long as the rules do indeed back you up. But this should be something you are willing to sit down with other human beings and actually play, so keep the Vieux Boulougne at home. Also, this should go without saying, but if a build element is illegal (failing to qualify for a feat/PrC, for instance), I will deduct for it.

Use of Secret Ingredient

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This one's pretty simple. Do you use the secret ingredient's abilities to good effect, or are they more of a footnote? Is there another class that could have done a better job at what you are trying to do? Your goal here is to highlight the cryokineticist, not to mask it. You will gain points by taking advantage of all the abilities provided, by using them in effective ways (an ability that would have been cool at level 6 won't score points with me if you don't pick it up until level 12), and by demonstrating how the SI brings your build together. You will lose points by dropping too many levels, failing to take advantage of the class's core abilities and pre-requisites, etc. You will automatically get minimum points here if you don't actually qualify for the PrC, so double-check those skill points!

[Jeriah]

Well, I just submitted my build. I certainly hope that it's unique... I'm concerned about power, because I usually make much more powerful builds. I think, however, that I have enough in there for it to be serviceable if not amazing.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I... I think I actually have a build idea... lemme see if this works out as well as it does in my fevered imagination. If it does... well... it'll be interesting at least.

[Garwain]

lemme see if this works out as well as it does in my fevered imagination.

If you need to halucinate to come up with a build, it says a lot about the SI.

[motoko's ghost]

If you need to halucinate to come up with a build, it says a lot about the SI.

It says its amazing, thats what hallucinations are right, things to amazing for the mind to fully comprehend?

Unfortunately due to a virus wiping out my computer I wont be able to submit on time, so you'll have to count me out(I have to use a small internet cafe about 3km from my house, its nowhere near the bus routes and I dont own a car)

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Unfortunately due to a virus wiping out my computer I wont be able to submit on time, so you'll have to count me out(I have to use a small internet cafe about 3km from my house, its nowhere near the bus routes and I dont own a car)

It's times like these that make me glad I run a Linux distro...

[TroubleBrewing]

I am trying so hard to make this class work. SO. HARD.

I've never felt like I was fighting the SI as much as now. Most of the time, finding synergy with halfway decent classes, or even GOOD classes is possible. Not here. No synergy, no easy exploits, no casting/manifesting/maneuvers/soulmelds/binding/mystery progression, NOTHING. I actually like Frostburn less than I did before this challenge.

I will MAKE THIS WORK.