V's Gender Debate IV [Official]

[Silva Stormrage]

You're theory is torpedoed by the fact that Roy was originally the party Wizard.

He only became the fighter because Giant needed a know-it-all for the first comic and didnt want roy to be both that and the strait man

Waaait what? Roy was supposed to be the party wizard? Since when? I know his dad wanted him to be but in the first strip its pretty obvious that he's a fighter.

[FujinAkari]

Waaait what? Roy was supposed to be the party wizard? Since when? I know his dad wanted him to be but in the first strip its pretty obvious that he's a fighter.

Rich originally designed OOTS with only five members, Vaarsuvius was a last minute decision because he didn't want Roy pulling duel roles as the straight man and the know-it-all.

Originally Roy was a Wizard and V didn't exist.

[veti]

You're theory is torpedoed by the fact that Roy was originally the party Wizard.

He only became the fighter because Giant needed a know-it-all for the first comic and didnt want roy to be both that and the strait man

What he may have considered before starting is neither here nor there. At some point, he made some final decisions.

But we're violating the "no arguing" rule.

[Ajadea]

V has always struck me as female ever since the first strip. It might be me projecting onto the character I identify with the best, but moments like Haley trying to discuss fashion with V, V going shopping with Celia, and the fact that V will not room with the males, makes it seem like V is a very androgynous female.

[CaptainIreland]

...in Latin, a language which can't have the double-a form.

In other words: In a language which the name can't possibly be.

Please Kish, this is not a place to say that someone is wrong for WHY they think V is male or female.

Please?

[Silva Stormrage]

Rich originally designed OOTS with only five members, Vaarsuvius was a last minute decision because he didn't want Roy pulling duel roles as the straight man and the know-it-all.

Originally Roy was a Wizard and V didn't exist.

Oh wow I never knew that. When did Rich state this? Not arguing with you, I was just wondering. Was it in The Origin of PC's or Dungeon Crawling Fools?

[Flame of Anor]

Yeah, I object to that. The entire idea that the mother is a better or more caring parent is without merit and an insult to any caring father out there.

True, though the maternal reaction is more hardwired.

[FujinAkari]

Oh wow I never knew that. When did Rich state this? Not arguing with you, I was just wondering. Was it in The Origin of PC's or Dungeon Crawling Fools?

I believe Dungeon Crawlin' Fools :)

Thats the central reason Roy is such a departure from the stock character, if you break the OOTS down (at least from a 'base character' perspective)

Roy: Intellectual Fighter
Elan: Spoony Bard
Durkon: Unwavering Cleric
Vaarsuvius: Know-it-all Mage
Haley: Greedy Thief
Belkar: Lethal Ranger


Of the six, Roy is -very far- outside what would be expected based on his class... the other five aren't. This is due to Roy being conceived as a Wizard.

[Themrys]

V's a girl, mostly cause I don't see Haley rooming with her if she were a guy and the way she acts isn't masculine to me, and the part where she kills all that dragon children that screams "MOTHER" to me, cause no one understands more how painful it is to lose a child than a mother- so in revenge she inflicts that pain upon the one who tried to kill her children.

Inkyrius' reaction to V's new looks (trying to fend hir off with a stick) looked rather Mama Bear like, too.
So, I guess...they have to be a lesbian couple?

I tend to view them both as male, even though V's behaviour often is exactly the same thing I would do. ("I'll eat in the library"...that could have been said by me. In a similar situation.)

[Nightmarenny]

What he may have considered before starting is neither here nor there. At some point, he made some final decisions.

But we're violating the "no arguing" rule.

Oh, sorry everyone. Didn't see that rule.

I see V as female. Not sure why. I find most all arguements for and against as circustacial at best but I feel quite strongly that she's a girl. *Shrugs

[Juggling Goth]

I used to hold the view that V was originally intended to be male because of the "V-man" strip, but then the Giant said no.

I've read some particularly awesome and lengthy fanfiction that has V as female, which tends to colour my view a bit.

Mostly I think V is genderqueer. If everything was just other characters saying they didn't know, that would be one thing, but V hirself has commented that ze doesn't pay attention to pronouns and regards gender as irrelevant, and ze uses non-gender-specific language when talking about hir marriage (I've done that. It's difficult. You have to rearrange whole sentences).

[Nightmarenny]

I used to hold the view that V was originally intended to be male because of the "V-man" strip, but then the Giant said no.

I've read some particularly awesome and lengthy fanfiction that has V as female, which tends to colour my view a bit.

Mostly I think V is genderqueer. If everything was just other characters saying they didn't know, that would be one thing, but V hirself has commented that ze doesn't pay attention to pronouns and regards gender as irrelevant, and ze uses non-gender-specific language when talking about hir marriage (I've done that. It's difficult. You have to rearrange whole sentences).

hm. Well we know for sure that androgyny is not an Elven trait but I wonder if perhaps V's gender neutral tendencies when it comes to word choice might a trait of the Elven Language. Like how someone who is in the middle of learning english will revert to their first language's syntax. Perhaps Elvish generally use Gender-neutral words, which spills over into the way they approach common.

Elves are normally viewed as more socially progressive and equel compared to other races*. So it would make sense for their Language to represent that. I think I shall dive into the archive and see if other elves also imply a gender-neutral language.

*Something I've always found odd. Considering the Drow's Female Dominated culture I've always thought it might be a neat idea to paint Elves as Male Dominated in their own way. Of course that offers certain... unfortunate implications.

[Themrys]

*Something I've always found odd. Considering the Drow's Female Dominated culture I've always thought it might be a neat idea to paint Elves as Male Dominated in their own way. Of course that offers certain... unfortunate implications.

You know, this is an old hat. Tolkien's elves are male dominated. Not as strictly as the Drow are female dominated (I guess, never really read a book about them), but still...elvish women need their father's consent for marriage...even though they are some thousand years old. Such stuff.

I'd like to see a female dominated elvish culture that is not evil. Female dominated counterpart of Tolkien's elves. That'd be interesting.

[Dr.Epic]

I am not entirely convinced V has a firm gender identity. Inkyrius looks physically male, but that proves nothing. However, overall, V, to me, seems female. The fact 'she' rooms with Haley, the balance it maintains between the OotStick and the OotScribble, and the sheer level of vengeance V feels 'she' must enact against the ABD. Mama bear is a scary thing, and I think the DarthV arc was a shining example of exactly that.

Balance? Who said the OotS and Scribble had to have a balance? They aren't the Linear Guild. The Stick doesn't have to have the same number of boys/girls as the Scribble. Look at how many evil people there are in each group and tell me there's a balance.

[Flame of Anor]

Balance? Who said the OotS and Scribble had to have a balance? They aren't the Linear Guild. The Stick doesn't have to have the same number of boys/girls as the Scribble. Look at how many evil people there are in each group and tell me there's a balance.

One and zero, right?

[Dr.Epic]

One and zero, right?

Exactly, and are those numbered balanced?

[Juggling Goth]

hm. Well we know for sure that androgyny is not an Elven trait but I wonder if perhaps V's gender neutral tendencies when it comes to word choice might a trait of the Elven Language. Like how someone who is in the middle of learning english will revert to their first language's syntax. Perhaps Elvish generally use Gender-neutral words, which spills over into the way they approach common.

Elves are normally viewed as more socially progressive and equel compared to other races*. So it would make sense for their Language to represent that. I think I shall dive into the archive and see if other elves also imply a gender-neutral language.

*Something I've always found odd. Considering the Drow's Female Dominated culture I've always thought it might be a neat idea to paint Elves as Male Dominated in their own way. Of course that offers certain... unfortunate implications.

What? No, I meant that was V's personal gender identity. There are options other than male and female.

[Nightmarenny]

What? No, I meant that was V's personal gender identity. There are options other than male and female.

Hm? Oh, no your post(in which you highlighted V's disinterest with Genders and use of non-gender specific words) made me curious about whether is a trait shared by all Elves. I understood what you were saying.

[Cizak]

Guess what? There's already a thread for this. It's long, the fourth in the series, is one the first page and has "official" in the title.

[Dr.Epic]

Guess what? There's already a thread for this. It's long, the fourth in the series, is one the first page and has "official" in the title.

This thread could be the official unofficial.

[ThePhantasm]

Guess what? There's already a thread for this. It's long, the fourth in the series, is one the first page and has "official" in the title.

Please, Cizak. This is the happy thoughts thread. None of that "debate" stuff here. That's the supposed difference. This is a place for people to say what they feel about V without any possibility that they might be proven wrong. (Edit: This sarcasm provided for humorous effect. I'm ribbing not jabbing.)

In answer to the thread, I think V is female. I won't give my reasons, because my reasoning doesn't really matter in this thread, to be honest. My reasons aren't really good ones anyways. I also think we'll never know for sure what gender V is anyways, unlike the whole MiTD question.

Since Rich just destroyed the only evidence of V's gender either way, I got curious about the thought process of everyone.

He didn't destroy any evidence. That makes it sound like he was covering something up. He destroyed a theory that was based on faulty assumptions. That's all there was to it.

[ArcoSan]

True to most gaming groups accross the globe a typical dnd group will not have more than 1 girl.

I mean I have roleplayed in England, France and Spain and not once have I been to a group that there was more than 1 girl.

Off course some times there were no girls but someone chose to play a female character but that was the exception...

In any case, I dont wish to sound sexist or anything but I think the player behind Haley (if OotS was a real dnd group) would be 100% female as the character has such habbits etc but Varsuvius doesnt strike me as feminine regardless of the fact that the gender is obscure...

I do wonder how come the rest of the party doesnt know or if they do know for certain...

Oh and off course there is the name ... -us is not a typical fantasy or real world female name ending...

[Themrys]

In any case, I dont wish to sound sexist or anything but I think the player behind Haley (if OotS was a real dnd group) would be 100% female as the character has such habbits etc but Varsuvius doesnt strike me as feminine regardless of the fact that the gender is obscure...

My guess is that Haley's player is a guy and V's player is the only
girl in the group. V's player is, moreover, a radical feminist and the DM included the subplot with gender-changed Roy because of her complaints about the sexism of Roy's player.

It all makes sense: Look at V's hair colour!
Being a radical feminist, V's player would not have stated what gender her elf is, and keep the others guessing in order to reveal their sexist prejudices.

[ThePhantasm]

I do wonder how come the rest of the party doesnt know

Invisible peeing.

[CaptainIreland]

Balance? Who said the OotS and Scribble had to have a balance? They aren't the Linear Guild. The Stick doesn't have to have the same number of boys/girls as the Scribble. Look at how many evil people there are in each group and tell me there's a balance.

Please no arguing about other people's opinions. If a poster thinks that V is female to maintain balance, that's why they thought V was female.

[CaptainIreland]

In answer to the thread, I think V is female. I won't give my reasons, because my reasoning doesn't really matter in this thread, to be honest.

This thread has nothing to do with anything other than the reasons WHY you originally thought V was male or female.

If you're not willing to post them, this probably isn't the thread for you.

He didn't destroy any evidence. That makes it sound like he was covering something up. He destroyed a theory that was based on faulty assumptions. That's all there was to it.

You are wrong, but there's no arguing about it here. Please?

[CaptainIreland]

Guess what? There's already a thread for this. It's long, the fourth in the series, is one the first page and has "official" in the title.

I don't care. This thread is supposed to be nothing more than why you first picked a gender for V, not debating evidence.

Of course, it didn't take long for people to ignore that and start calling other posters out when they disagreed with them. So I ask you, will you not disrupt the topic? Please?

[ThePhantasm]

This thread has nothing to do with anything other than the reasons WHY you originally thought V was male or female.

If you're not willing to post them, this probably isn't the thread for you.

Why do you want our reasons? Is this a poll or something?

In the other V-gender thread, people give their reasons AND discuss them. Here they just give them? That's the difference? So this is just an abbreviated catalog of the other thread?

I'm not trying to belittle the thread here, I just honestly don't understand what its purpose is. Seems redundant. You are certainly right, I suppose, that this isn't the thread for me.

Also, do you mind using the edit button?

[CaptainIreland]

Why do you want our reasons? Is this a poll or something?

An experiment.

In the other V-gender thread, people give their reasons AND discuss them. Here they just give them? That's the difference? So this is just an abbreviated catalog of the other thread?

Yes. Other threads here are bogged down with argument, I'd like that to be avoided here, if possible.

I'm not trying to belittle the thread here, I just honestly don't understand what its purpose is. Seems redundant. You are certainly right, I suppose, that this isn't the thread for me.

The purpose is to gather why someone thinks V is male or female without getting into debates about evidence.

Also, do you mind using the edit button?

Personal discussions about me should be taken up via PM.

[ThePhantasm]

An experiment.

Please expound.

Personal discussions about me should be taken up via PM.

Not sure what discussion you are referring to. I made a simple request, one that isn't hard to follow. I notice that your requests for people to quit "arguing" in the thread weren't sent by PM.