Relationship Woes and Advice XXVI. Status: It's Complicated

[Aedilred]

I mean, I hear the chill factor loud and clear, but personally I try and make a strong distinction between how they look and how they act/think/feel/have interests in. The latter is what intrigues me far more than the former, and the former is icing on the cake if it happens to align that way. My previous girlfriend wasn't extremely attractive but she wasn't like, hideous to behold. She was somewhere in between, which honestly didn't really perturb me in any way, shape, or form. I cared a lot more about her personality and how she was as a person versus how she looked, although she is a cute genetic blend of various different ethnicities, but not like, jaw droppingly beautiful.

I've only met one woman who made me stop and stare internally going "holy ****". The problem is that I wasn't in a healthy enough mental state of mind to capitalize on my reaction, and she lives in Romania. I was at TwitchCon in San Francisco at the time, and she's one of the big streamers affiliated with Twitch.

Honestly this still sounds to me like you're trying to convince yourself as much as anything else. As has come up a number of times on this thread over the years, it's ok not to be attracted to somebody, and not wanting to pursue a relationship with someone just because you don't fancy them is a perfectly legitimate reason. Decades of media have tried to convince us that people who care about looks are shallow and appear to have succeeed in making a lot of people self-conscious and guilty about the topic, but that's at best a massive oversimplification and at worst outright false and damaging. It's just not really how sexuality works, I think.

It seems to me rather like you think you should be attracted to this person rather than that you actually are. That doesn't mean you necessarily won't be given time, but there's no point trying to force things and indeed force yourself into a relationship with someone you don't actually find attractive, as that's unlikely to end well and isn't really fair on them, to be honest.

[TechnOkami]

It seems to me rather like you think you should be attracted to this person rather than that you actually are. That doesn't mean you necessarily won't be given time, but there's no point trying to force things and indeed force yourself into a relationship with someone you don't actually find attractive, as that's unlikely to end well and isn't really fair on them, to be honest.

That's... fair. I don't know... I guess I'm not listening to my own advice. I just need to be patient.

Hm, I guess my next roadblock would be what exactly counts as attraction, because while I know I'm heterosexual, I don't exactly know what counts as me being "attracted" to someone. It doesn't help that my 1st girlfriend was primarily attracted to me, and I kind of went along with it.

...you know, in retrospect, that might have been an unresolved part of our relationship I never saw until now.

[Pendulous]

Why is it you don't want to pay for the service? Is it on principle? Then I urge you to change that principle, because it generally turns out to be a worthwhile investment. Circumstances of course apply.

Well, that was a giant waste of money.

[Blackhawk748]

Well, that was a giant waste of money.

This doesnt sound good....

[Pendulous]

This doesnt sound good....

Well, it's just that I had about ten "likes". All of them turned out to be either bots (i suspect), people who have absolutely zero profile information, or people who are far beyond compatible (which baffles me). Advanced search options are nice, but being MORE specific is bad when you don't have any local matches anyway.

[Coidzor]

Well, it's just that I had about ten "likes". All of them turned out to be either bots (i suspect), people who have absolutely zero profile information, or people who are far beyond compatible (which baffles me). Advanced search options are nice, but being MORE specific is bad when you don't have any local matches anyway.

That's rough, I'm sorry. :(

[Blackhawk748]

That's rough, I'm sorry. :(

My sentiments exactly.

[Serpentine]

Is there a dating site like OkCupid that allows for private messages to be sent and read without making you hand over money?

I live in a very conservative area, where my personality clashes with absolutely everyone, and my travel options are severely limited, so finding someone in my area who I connect with is something of a problem. I've been on OkCupid for some time, and have found compatible people, but never close enough to garner a physical appearance. Some replies, some short conversations, but that's it. I work in an area with a lot of social interaction, be it toward employees or otherwise, but again, nothing. Pretty much any kind of stereotype you think of here is true, and it's also all of the things that are vast turn-offs. I'm also super reluctant to pay money for a dating site (OkCupid uses it to make you pay to see who "likes" you, but considering I haven't found anyone close enough, I doubt seeing those results will matter), so I guess I'm basically asking if there are other, widely-used means of finding...um..."locals".

Well, it's just that I had about ten "likes". All of them turned out to be either bots (i suspect), people who have absolutely zero profile information, or people who are far beyond compatible (which baffles me). Advanced search options are nice, but being MORE specific is bad when you don't have any local matches anyway.

With that last bit, do you mean you paid for Okcupid's A-list? If so, eh. It occasionally tells you if a particularly high match "likes" you, or if someone you like likes you back or vice-versa. I bought the A-list once because I wanted the bigger inbox and to support a site I'd been using for free for years, but none of the other offers interested me enough to keep the subscription. Don't forget to cancel it, or the next payment will go through automatically!

Regarding the original issue, aside from the aforementioned moving option, there's also Tinder (I know a few people who have at least gotten a decent date or two out of it), meetup.com and local Facebook groups.

[goto124]

Decades of media have tried to convince us that people who care about looks are shallow and appear to have succeeed in making a lot of people self-conscious and guilty about the topic, but that's at best a massive oversimplification and at worst outright false and damaging. It's just not really how sexuality works, I think.

It seems to me rather like you think you should be attracted to this person rather than that you actually are.

Huh... now the whole 'beauty is unimportant or outright bad for romance' idea seems to be made more to go against another common trend in the media - for all sympathetic female characters to conform to a very narrow standard of 'attractive', while the 'fat' or otherwise 'unattractive' are related to evil or comedy roles.

But I'm going off topic.

Anyway, how far should one go with pragmatism when choosing romantic partners, especially when thinking about the future?

And why does attraction or sexuality not work like that?

[Crow]

Shallow as this sounds, there is a social aspect to having an attractive partner also, but it isn't what you think.

I used to meet my ex's friends, and they (being untactful as they were) would later say things like "he was a lot better looking than I expected" and the such. Or I would hear from people "She's not what I expected" in reference to her. That sort of thing grates after a while.

It's really sad that "attractive" people are expected to have attractive partners, while people who aren't as attractive are looked at like some sort of aberration if they land someone society deems above their grade.

[Cyber Punk]

Late to the party! I really wanted to have a go at TechnOkami's question, but it's not too late, I suppose. I'll go for goto124's question first.

Anyway, how far should one go with pragmatism when choosing romantic partners, especially when thinking about the future?

I'm not too sure what this question means, but one thing to keep in mind that relationships are give-and-take. It's easier to just keep on taking without giving anything, but that's only going to end up killing the relationship, as the other person is going to end up being fed-up at being the only contributor to the relationship.

That's... fair. I don't know... I guess I'm not listening to my own advice. I just need to be patient.

Hm, I guess my next roadblock would be what exactly counts as attraction, because while I know I'm heterosexual, I don't exactly know what counts as me being "attracted" to someone. It doesn't help that my 1st girlfriend was primarily attracted to me, and I kind of went along with it.

...you know, in retrospect, that might have been an unresolved part of our relationship I never saw until now.

First off, know that what counts as attraction for one won't necessarily count as attraction for someone else. There are some basic things that seem to be universal, however, such as:

• You share common interests and love spending time together
• You speak about [almost] everythng under the sun without worry or fear or shame
• You understand each other deeply
• You put each other first in your lives

The specifics, such as race, gender, religion, personality etc differ from person to person, as is what exactly you seek to gain from the relationship.

As an addendum: Physical attraction is only one aspect, but not the entire package. Remember the saying about physical beauty being skin-deep? It's true, it's what's inside that matters. Everyone has met a pretty girl that had only her looks going for her, but didn't have any good manners or personality worth ****.

A good analogy is icing and cake. Chowing on icing will only get you so far, but it's the cake that'll fill you up, as it has more nutrients, unlike the icing which is just sugar.

[Glass Mouse]

As an addendum: Physical attraction is only one aspect, but not the entire package. Remember the saying about physical beauty being skin-deep? It's true, it's what's inside that matters. Everyone has met a pretty girl that had only her looks going for her, but didn't have any good manners or personality worth ****.

I think this is where it's good to make a distinction between someone being conventionally attractive, and you being attracted to a person. For most people, those will have major overlap on a first meeting, but they will shift vastly over time as you get to know the person and the other factors (that Eagle mentions) start mattering.

A sexual relationship is not gonna work if you're not attracted to the other person. Conventional attractiveness may be just icing on the cake (but then again, some people put a primary value on that), but personal attractiveness is what takes the cake from platonic carrotcake to deliciously sexy-romantic brownies. It is most definitely an important factor.

It's not super groundbreaking or anything, but I really wanted to make that distinction.

Also, everything Aedilred said on attraction. Not being into someone is not a moral failing; it's just personal taste and emotional/physical needs. As long as no one's being gross or fetishizist about it, there's no need to feel bad.

[Cyber Punk]

Right, I forgot to mention that. As always, Glass Mouse hit the nail on the head.

[TechnOkami]

I don't really have much else to add, other than I think I need time to digest and think about all that's been said, so I'll just leave this little nugget.

Conventional attractiveness may be just icing on the cake (but then again, some people put a primary value on that), but personal attractiveness is what takes the cake from platonic carrotcake to deliciously sexy-romantic brownies. It is most definitely an important factor.

For the record, I always hated carrotcake and cheesecake. Brownies can be downright sinful for how good they taste though.

[Ifni]

Oddly, I am ace+aro and when I was a kid I always wanted carrot cake with cream cheese icing for my birthday. (I normally dislike icing, and never put it on my own cakes, but that cream cheese icing... *salivates in memory*)

Anyway, er, not to derail the metaphor or the thread, carry on, but I was just amused by that

[Kalmageddon]

Lately I've started wondering about my sexuality and the way I approach relationships.
Now I don't mean that I have doubts about what sex I'm attracted to, it's a bit more complicated than that.

Spoiler: Long and complicated rambling about how I feel things

Show

See, I don't really feel anything I don't conciously want to feel.
By that I mean, I don't fall in love or feel sexual attraction unless I want to. For me, it's an on/off switch. And since people are, broadly speaking, uninteresting, it's mostly off.
Up until now, I thought it was a mix of really good self control and having a lot of experience. When you have to get over love and relationships went wrong for the N time, you start getting used to it and it becomes, well, boring, at least for me.

But then again, seems most people don't work that way.
Like, for example, I'm a pretty sexual guy, sex has and always had a very big role in my relationships. However you can show me pictures of gorgerous naked women all day long and at most you'd make me curious about getting to know them to see if there's intellectual compatibility. Rest assured that if compatibility is present, I'd probaby shut myself at home with them for a few days (the real deal, not the pictures ), but before that I'd have to make a concious (if easy) effort to become aroused beyond "yeah, that's a nice view".
But then, I hear people commenting all the time about how they would have sex with people based just on their looks or a first impression, like a "gut feel". And I can't begin to describe how weird it is for me. I was like that once, I guess, but I always assumed you grow out of that phase with time, but no, apparently I was wrong.
Lust for me is something I have to actively want to feel, it's not something that is ever going to be beyond my control. When I want to feel it, it's there, it's strong, evenabove average, if what my partners told me is true. But it's just like wanting to go running. You don't start running on your own, you have to do it conciously.

Love and affection in general is the same, only weirder.
As I said, I had to get over it a lot of times. And despite what you might be thinking of me, I'm actually a very emotional person. When I allow myself to feel, damn it, I FEEL. Affection is actually really important for me, in any kind of relationship. But it's still something I allow myself to feel, because I want it. It's not something that is beyond my control, it's not something spontaneous beyond a first positive impression. I might feel interest, empathy, I might like someone. But feeling something deeper is entirely up to me.
And yet I hear all these talks about how these things just "happen", how "you can't control it" and I'm starting to wonder if I'm some kind of weird alien.

I suppose I can't really complain, since every person I know seem to be either incapable of feeling sexual and/or romantic attraction (ace people) or feels it spontaneously regardless of what they want, while apparently I'm able to conciously choose if I want to feel.
But actually, this is a source of discomfort.
Everyone else doesn't work like me. It's not easy for me being with someone that I know might fall for someone else, someday. That is constantly wrestling with what they feel towards me and others. Don't get me wrong, I might change my mind about things as well. But if I decide my time with a partner is done, it's not because of instinct or gut feelings, it's because either I have changed beyond what made us compatibile in the first place, or they have changed in a way that makes me want to leave them.
It would never be because someone else has walked in and stole my heart, so to speak.
And lookin at it from the other side, I'd never let a relationship advance to the "next level" before I conciously and rationally think it might work. And it always catches me off guard when my partners don't do it. How many times have I been wrestled into a more commited relationships not because my partner thought it would work, but because that's what they felt like doing?

The weird things is, it's only affection and lust that work that way for me. Outside of that I'm as spontaneous as anyone else, perhaps more. Rage, hate, fear, sadness, happiness, those all come and go whether I want them or not.


So, the question is, what am I? Why am I? Am I emotionally mature? Emotionally stunted? Traumatized? Too rational? Some kind of mentally ill person? Is there something wrong or different with my brain chemistry?
I may sound calm, but I'm actually really distressed. I never met anyone like me. I was always the "other". And I'm tired of it. Really, really tired and sad. It's a thought that it's always in the background.
I have a girlfriend, beautiful, intelligent, funny. Lovely in every way. But she's not like me. She will never feel and see things the way I do. And it's the same with everyone.
And, please, don't think it's me wanting to feel like this. I actively look for someone like me. I want to find someone like me, I want it with all my heart.

Beside, I'm fairly sure people are put off or scared by me being the way I am. After explaining my veiw on relationships I've been called apathetic (and other, less kind adjectives), but that doesn't sit right with me. It's like calling someone paraplegic just because they don't feel like getting up and running in that particular moment, despite being able to do so when the opportunity present itself.

I don't know if posting this here is going to be of any help. I just felt like getting it off my chest.

TL;DR: Kalmageddon is a weird alien that doesn't work the way normal people do and is looking for another weird alien of female persuasion that might keep him company.

[Aedilred]

Lately I've started wondering about my sexuality and the way I approach relationships.
Now I don't mean that I have doubts about what sex I'm attracted to, it's a bit more complicated than that.

Spoiler: Long and complicated rambling about how I feel things

Show

TL;DR: Kalmageddon is a weird alien that doesn't work the way normal people do and is looking for another weird alien of female persuasion that might keep him company.

I don't know how much help I can be, but for my own part:

Spoiler: Spoilered, because yours was

Show

But then, I hear people commenting all the time about how they would have sex with people based just on their looks or a first impression, like a "gut feel". And I can't begin to describe how weird it is for me. I was like that once, I guess, but I always assumed you grow out of that phase with time, but no, apparently I was wrong.

If anything I think this is something I've grown into with time. I was brought up in a relatively - though far from extremely - traditional family and largely bought into that to the extent that my outlook on most things, including relationships, is still pretty traditional. Thus there's no point entering into a relationship unless it's going to be long-term, preferably forever. And you only have sex with people you're in relationships with. Thus the only people you want to have sex with are those you can at least envisage as long-term partners.

That doesn't mean that I didn't find people physically attractive, but, as you say, that was really no more than ticking one of the many boxes before moving onto the important stuff like personal compatibility. Noticing someone attractive on the street was probably more to do with aesthetic appeal as it was anything sexual.

As I've grown older my views on relationships have changed slightly (for whatever reason) and dare I say it become slightly healthier, to the extent that the idea of a short-term relationship for its own sake, or indeed casual sex for its own sake, no longer seems so outlandish. With that mental gear change I've started to find people physically attractive in a more carnal sense, along with the idea that it might be fun to spend the night with them even if there was nothing else going on. I have, mind, not put this into practice at all, and there's probably a big gap between theory and reality, but I think the two are linked.

As to the decision-making process of falling for people, I think this is one of those things that's really hard to pin down, and it doesn't help that our definitions for such things are all so woolly. I do think that to an extent people do choose to fall for other people, but it might not be an active decision or even a conscious one; rather it's that you have to be open to the possibility of doing so. I can only think of one occasion when I've fallen for someone out of the blue on first meeting them, but even on those occasions where it's developed from a more lasting acquaintance (outside a romantic relationship) it's been when I've been single, and single for some time. When I've been in a relationship or during the period when I've been moping and trying to get over a relationship and/or still in love with my former partner, it hasn't happened. That's anecdotal, of course, but my experience at least suggests that if I'm not on some level available and to an extent making myself available, such feelings don't tend to force their way in.

That's why I'm not too worried (in theory) about the possibility of a partner of mine falling for someone else, because to my mind if they're happy in and satisfied with the existing relationship it won't happen. It's the possibility of their becoming dissatisfied with me or with the relationship that I need to be alive to, not that they might fall for someone else per se. And what's more even if they do, I like to think most people can control themselves and not necessarily follow through on every instinct they might experience. That side of things is about trust as much as anything.

So I guess the advice I'd offer is... try not to worry about it? When you start overthinking relationships or emotions the whole concept often turns out to be built on sand anyway and before long you're wondering how the hell it all fits together. Somehow it just does. That probably doesn't help to hear, but I think it's just how things work. (Doctor Pangloss, away! )

[Glass Mouse]

Lately I've started wondering about my sexuality and the way I approach relationships.
Now I don't mean that I have doubts about what sex I'm attracted to, it's a bit more complicated than that.

Spoiler: Long and complicated rambling about how I feel things

Show

See, I don't really feel anything I don't conciously want to feel.
By that I mean, I don't fall in love or feel sexual attraction unless I want to. For me, it's an on/off switch. And since people are, broadly speaking, uninteresting, it's mostly off.
Up until now, I thought it was a mix of really good self control and having a lot of experience. When you have to get over love and relationships went wrong for the N time, you start getting used to it and it becomes, well, boring, at least for me.

But then again, seems most people don't work that way.
Like, for example, I'm a pretty sexual guy, sex has and always had a very big role in my relationships. However you can show me pictures of gorgerous naked women all day long and at most you'd make me curious about getting to know them to see if there's intellectual compatibility. Rest assured that if compatibility is present, I'd probaby shut myself at home with them for a few days (the real deal, not the pictures ), but before that I'd have to make a concious (if easy) effort to become aroused beyond "yeah, that's a nice view".
But then, I hear people commenting all the time about how they would have sex with people based just on their looks or a first impression, like a "gut feel". And I can't begin to describe how weird it is for me. I was like that once, I guess, but I always assumed you grow out of that phase with time, but no, apparently I was wrong.
Lust for me is something I have to actively want to feel, it's not something that is ever going to be beyond my control. When I want to feel it, it's there, it's strong, evenabove average, if what my partners told me is true. But it's just like wanting to go running. You don't start running on your own, you have to do it conciously.

Love and affection in general is the same, only weirder.
As I said, I had to get over it a lot of times. And despite what you might be thinking of me, I'm actually a very emotional person. When I allow myself to feel, damn it, I FEEL. Affection is actually really important for me, in any kind of relationship. But it's still something I allow myself to feel, because I want it. It's not something that is beyond my control, it's not something spontaneous beyond a first positive impression. I might feel interest, empathy, I might like someone. But feeling something deeper is entirely up to me.
And yet I hear all these talks about how these things just "happen", how "you can't control it" and I'm starting to wonder if I'm some kind of weird alien.

I suppose I can't really complain, since every person I know seem to be either incapable of feeling sexual and/or romantic attraction (ace people) or feels it spontaneously regardless of what they want, while apparently I'm able to conciously choose if I want to feel.
But actually, this is a source of discomfort.
Everyone else doesn't work like me. It's not easy for me being with someone that I know might fall for someone else, someday. That is constantly wrestling with what they feel towards me and others. Don't get me wrong, I might change my mind about things as well. But if I decide my time with a partner is done, it's not because of instinct or gut feelings, it's because either I have changed beyond what made us compatibile in the first place, or they have changed in a way that makes me want to leave them.
It would never be because someone else has walked in and stole my heart, so to speak.
And lookin at it from the other side, I'd never let a relationship advance to the "next level" before I conciously and rationally think it might work. And it always catches me off guard when my partners don't do it. How many times have I been wrestled into a more commited relationships not because my partner thought it would work, but because that's what they felt like doing?

The weird things is, it's only affection and lust that work that way for me. Outside of that I'm as spontaneous as anyone else, perhaps more. Rage, hate, fear, sadness, happiness, those all come and go whether I want them or not.


So, the question is, what am I? Why am I? Am I emotionally mature? Emotionally stunted? Traumatized? Too rational? Some kind of mentally ill person? Is there something wrong or different with my brain chemistry?
I may sound calm, but I'm actually really distressed. I never met anyone like me. I was always the "other". And I'm tired of it. Really, really tired and sad. It's a thought that it's always in the background.
I have a girlfriend, beautiful, intelligent, funny. Lovely in every way. But she's not like me. She will never feel and see things the way I do. And it's the same with everyone.
And, please, don't think it's me wanting to feel like this. I actively look for someone like me. I want to find someone like me, I want it with all my heart.

Beside, I'm fairly sure people are put off or scared by me being the way I am. After explaining my veiw on relationships I've been called apathetic (and other, less kind adjectives), but that doesn't sit right with me. It's like calling someone paraplegic just because they don't feel like getting up and running in that particular moment, despite being able to do so when the opportunity present itself.

I don't know if posting this here is going to be of any help. I just felt like getting it off my chest.

TL;DR: Kalmageddon is a weird alien that doesn't work the way normal people do and is looking for another weird alien of female persuasion that might keep him company.

I don't think you're strange. You're probably closer to one end of the bell curve in terms of how you experience attraction, but having some measure of control does not seem alien to me at all. I personally have a nifty ability to not develop crushes on people who are unavailable or of incompatible sexuality, which is generally a conscious decision ("oh, she's straight? Fine, then, I won't crush").

I also think that spontaneous/instant attraction may be more rare than it seems. Especially among men in Western/European culture (which is the only one I can confidently talk about), there is a strong performance/bonding element to finding women instantly attractive. There are most likely more people playing up their attraction than playing it down.

Also also, just to let you know: You don't read as cold/calm/disaffected/stunted to me at all. Your confusion and frustration reads loud and clear long before you get to the "I may sound calm" part. It's a little curious to me that you feel the need to clarify that. Are you much different in writing than in real life? It seems there might be a disconnect in how you perceive yourself and how you actually come across (which is, much more normal and emotional than you think), which is supported by the fact that you say others don't generally find you scary/cold. Are you sure you're generally well-connected with your emotions? Not in terms of "feeling the right ones the right way", but more "knowing they are there, and how are they expressed".

I also don't know how old you are (which affects volume of dating experience and general brain chemistry) or how traumatising your dating history is. It sounds like you feel like you have reason to feel traumatised? Are you subconsciously protecting yourself from repeating old mistakes? Aedilred does a good job of outlining how love includes a measure of choice, but an unwillingness/inability go with the flow at all can point towards using choice as a self-defense mechanism.

Maybe. Like I said, you don't sound all that abnormal to me at all. These are just questions to consider if the current situation really distresses you, and you want to rule out potential fixes.

[sktarq]

Kalmag: Frankly, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Bring the way you are not very abnormal-being aware of it as you do so is the odd/rare part. Being an "other" is a pain in the glutes but it is probably the kind of barely visible one that is easy to hide and has to delt with internally. Trying to find some similar to you in this way may also be a bit of a foolish idea. Like an albino saying they will only date other albinos (possibly holding out leucos "if they are really hot").

You wanting to not worry about girl not falling for someone else because theey don't have this conscious process is understandable but limiting in that there are many ways people block those kinds of feeling. Some are natural aces or demi's who need a strong relationship to even open up the idea of attraction. Others have a head space where attraction can happen but is walled off from doing or emotional connection. The block doesn't have to be a copy of your block to work. Plus all relationships have element of either accepting chance (for things like this) or faith, rationalizations aside it is a basic part of getting together.

[ThinkMinty]

Are you kidding? I know so many women who are into that "niche". Of course it depends on the type of nerd, but intelligence, passion, and introversion* are pretty good qualities, and ones that are often found in the nerdier gents.

Do ambiverts count? I fit the definitions of introversion and extroversion since I get energy from both solace and company, and kinda need both to function, but I tend to identify as an extrovert. I'm not much on the stoic, though. I'm more...upbeat? A lot of growing up for me was learning how to fake being calm. About the only time I'm downbeat is if I'm asleep or sick.

Anyways, I do have some stuff I'm dealing with and I don't quite know...how, I guess? It's better for PMs and has to do with the word fetish which is why it's probably better in a PM, so if anyone has the capacity and willingness to walk me through some stuff, I could use the help.

Sure, hit me up.

Does that still stand? I entirely forgot to follow through on that.

[Glass Mouse]

Do ambiverts count? I fit the definitions of introversion and extroversion since I get energy from both solace and company, and kinda need both to function, but I tend to identify as an extrovert. I'm not much on the stoic, though. I'm more...upbeat? A lot of growing up for me was learning how to fake being calm. About the only time I'm downbeat is if I'm asleep or sick.

Ambiverts don't count as introverts, no

Less smartypants answer: I just pointed out the positive traits of one specific-ish type of person. No one fits that niche perfectly, and if you move too far away, that just means other easily-put-in-the-plus-column traits and other subsets of people who take an interest. Most personality types* have their fanclubs. No need to worry about fitting into any kind of mold :)

* barring jerkitude or other stumbling blocks, but we already covered that, so let's please not revisit that conversation unless we want to say something interesting about specific stumbling blocks, please, thanks.

Does that still stand? I entirely forgot to follow through on that.

Of course.

[TechnOkami]

Lately I've started wondering about my sexuality and the way I approach relationships.
Now I don't mean that I have doubts about what sex I'm attracted to, it's a bit more complicated than that.

Spoiler: Long and complicated rambling about how I feel things

Show

See, I don't really feel anything I don't conciously want to feel.
By that I mean, I don't fall in love or feel sexual attraction unless I want to. For me, it's an on/off switch. And since people are, broadly speaking, uninteresting, it's mostly off.
Up until now, I thought it was a mix of really good self control and having a lot of experience. When you have to get over love and relationships went wrong for the N time, you start getting used to it and it becomes, well, boring, at least for me.

But then again, seems most people don't work that way.
Like, for example, I'm a pretty sexual guy, sex has and always had a very big role in my relationships. However you can show me pictures of gorgerous naked women all day long and at most you'd make me curious about getting to know them to see if there's intellectual compatibility. Rest assured that if compatibility is present, I'd probaby shut myself at home with them for a few days (the real deal, not the pictures ), but before that I'd have to make a concious (if easy) effort to become aroused beyond "yeah, that's a nice view".
But then, I hear people commenting all the time about how they would have sex with people based just on their looks or a first impression, like a "gut feel". And I can't begin to describe how weird it is for me. I was like that once, I guess, but I always assumed you grow out of that phase with time, but no, apparently I was wrong.
Lust for me is something I have to actively want to feel, it's not something that is ever going to be beyond my control. When I want to feel it, it's there, it's strong, evenabove average, if what my partners told me is true. But it's just like wanting to go running. You don't start running on your own, you have to do it conciously.

Love and affection in general is the same, only weirder.
As I said, I had to get over it a lot of times. And despite what you might be thinking of me, I'm actually a very emotional person. When I allow myself to feel, damn it, I FEEL. Affection is actually really important for me, in any kind of relationship. But it's still something I allow myself to feel, because I want it. It's not something that is beyond my control, it's not something spontaneous beyond a first positive impression. I might feel interest, empathy, I might like someone. But feeling something deeper is entirely up to me.
And yet I hear all these talks about how these things just "happen", how "you can't control it" and I'm starting to wonder if I'm some kind of weird alien.

I suppose I can't really complain, since every person I know seem to be either incapable of feeling sexual and/or romantic attraction (ace people) or feels it spontaneously regardless of what they want, while apparently I'm able to conciously choose if I want to feel.
But actually, this is a source of discomfort.
Everyone else doesn't work like me. It's not easy for me being with someone that I know might fall for someone else, someday. That is constantly wrestling with what they feel towards me and others. Don't get me wrong, I might change my mind about things as well. But if I decide my time with a partner is done, it's not because of instinct or gut feelings, it's because either I have changed beyond what made us compatibile in the first place, or they have changed in a way that makes me want to leave them.
It would never be because someone else has walked in and stole my heart, so to speak.
And lookin at it from the other side, I'd never let a relationship advance to the "next level" before I conciously and rationally think it might work. And it always catches me off guard when my partners don't do it. How many times have I been wrestled into a more commited relationships not because my partner thought it would work, but because that's what they felt like doing?

The weird things is, it's only affection and lust that work that way for me. Outside of that I'm as spontaneous as anyone else, perhaps more. Rage, hate, fear, sadness, happiness, those all come and go whether I want them or not.


So, the question is, what am I? Why am I? Am I emotionally mature? Emotionally stunted? Traumatized? Too rational? Some kind of mentally ill person? Is there something wrong or different with my brain chemistry?
I may sound calm, but I'm actually really distressed. I never met anyone like me. I was always the "other". And I'm tired of it. Really, really tired and sad. It's a thought that it's always in the background.
I have a girlfriend, beautiful, intelligent, funny. Lovely in every way. But she's not like me. She will never feel and see things the way I do. And it's the same with everyone.
And, please, don't think it's me wanting to feel like this. I actively look for someone like me. I want to find someone like me, I want it with all my heart.

Beside, I'm fairly sure people are put off or scared by me being the way I am. After explaining my veiw on relationships I've been called apathetic (and other, less kind adjectives), but that doesn't sit right with me. It's like calling someone paraplegic just because they don't feel like getting up and running in that particular moment, despite being able to do so when the opportunity present itself.

I don't know if posting this here is going to be of any help. I just felt like getting it off my chest.

TL;DR: Kalmageddon is a weird alien that doesn't work the way normal people do and is looking for another weird alien of female persuasion that might keep him company.

So uh, how you described yourself and how you function with love and lust is how I work in general on a day to day basis. The only major difference between us is that I tend to keep my emotions pretty well in check (save for humor, snark, and laughter, because you can never have enough of those), because in my personal experience I've always found the reaction of being one kind of emotion over another is a choice, and that choosing to remain in that emotion is what allows it to persist. So I choose not to, because I don't need to breed that kind of drama for myself.

But yes, we are very alike in how we think/act.

Hello friend.

[Cyber Punk]

Lately I've started wondering about my sexuality and the way I approach relationships.
Now I don't mean that I have doubts about what sex I'm attracted to, it's a bit more complicated than that.

Spoiler: Long and complicated rambling about how I feel things

Show

See, I don't really feel anything I don't conciously want to feel.
By that I mean, I don't fall in love or feel sexual attraction unless I want to. For me, it's an on/off switch. And since people are, broadly speaking, uninteresting, it's mostly off.
Up until now, I thought it was a mix of really good self control and having a lot of experience. When you have to get over love and relationships went wrong for the N time, you start getting used to it and it becomes, well, boring, at least for me.

But then again, seems most people don't work that way.
Like, for example, I'm a pretty sexual guy, sex has and always had a very big role in my relationships. However you can show me pictures of gorgerous naked women all day long and at most you'd make me curious about getting to know them to see if there's intellectual compatibility. Rest assured that if compatibility is present, I'd probaby shut myself at home with them for a few days (the real deal, not the pictures ), but before that I'd have to make a concious (if easy) effort to become aroused beyond "yeah, that's a nice view".
But then, I hear people commenting all the time about how they would have sex with people based just on their looks or a first impression, like a "gut feel". And I can't begin to describe how weird it is for me. I was like that once, I guess, but I always assumed you grow out of that phase with time, but no, apparently I was wrong.
Lust for me is something I have to actively want to feel, it's not something that is ever going to be beyond my control. When I want to feel it, it's there, it's strong, evenabove average, if what my partners told me is true. But it's just like wanting to go running. You don't start running on your own, you have to do it conciously.

Love and affection in general is the same, only weirder.
As I said, I had to get over it a lot of times. And despite what you might be thinking of me, I'm actually a very emotional person. When I allow myself to feel, damn it, I FEEL. Affection is actually really important for me, in any kind of relationship. But it's still something I allow myself to feel, because I want it. It's not something that is beyond my control, it's not something spontaneous beyond a first positive impression. I might feel interest, empathy, I might like someone. But feeling something deeper is entirely up to me.
And yet I hear all these talks about how these things just "happen", how "you can't control it" and I'm starting to wonder if I'm some kind of weird alien.

I suppose I can't really complain, since every person I know seem to be either incapable of feeling sexual and/or romantic attraction (ace people) or feels it spontaneously regardless of what they want, while apparently I'm able to conciously choose if I want to feel.
But actually, this is a source of discomfort.
Everyone else doesn't work like me. It's not easy for me being with someone that I know might fall for someone else, someday. That is constantly wrestling with what they feel towards me and others. Don't get me wrong, I might change my mind about things as well. But if I decide my time with a partner is done, it's not because of instinct or gut feelings, it's because either I have changed beyond what made us compatibile in the first place, or they have changed in a way that makes me want to leave them.
It would never be because someone else has walked in and stole my heart, so to speak.
And lookin at it from the other side, I'd never let a relationship advance to the "next level" before I conciously and rationally think it might work. And it always catches me off guard when my partners don't do it. How many times have I been wrestled into a more commited relationships not because my partner thought it would work, but because that's what they felt like doing?

The weird things is, it's only affection and lust that work that way for me. Outside of that I'm as spontaneous as anyone else, perhaps more. Rage, hate, fear, sadness, happiness, those all come and go whether I want them or not.


So, the question is, what am I? Why am I? Am I emotionally mature? Emotionally stunted? Traumatized? Too rational? Some kind of mentally ill person? Is there something wrong or different with my brain chemistry?
I may sound calm, but I'm actually really distressed. I never met anyone like me. I was always the "other". And I'm tired of it. Really, really tired and sad. It's a thought that it's always in the background.
I have a girlfriend, beautiful, intelligent, funny. Lovely in every way. But she's not like me. She will never feel and see things the way I do. And it's the same with everyone.
And, please, don't think it's me wanting to feel like this. I actively look for someone like me. I want to find someone like me, I want it with all my heart.

Beside, I'm fairly sure people are put off or scared by me being the way I am. After explaining my veiw on relationships I've been called apathetic (and other, less kind adjectives), but that doesn't sit right with me. It's like calling someone paraplegic just because they don't feel like getting up and running in that particular moment, despite being able to do so when the opportunity present itself.

I don't know if posting this here is going to be of any help. I just felt like getting it off my chest.

TL;DR: Kalmageddon is a weird alien that doesn't work the way normal people do and is looking for another weird alien of female persuasion that might keep him company.

First, I mean no ill-will when I say this, but this puts your past posts in some perspective.

Second, I can understand. You're not an alien, I feel the same way, regards personal feelings. I can't say the same for sexuality, because after being very promiscuous I decided to make a personal decision to abstain from sex (two years strong, not bad for a guy who was sexually active multiple times in a day, though I'm still very physical), but regards personal feelings, I completely understand. Yes, there are times I slip into submitting to my emotions, but for the most part, I can understand you.

I agree with you that it might be caused by heartbreak upon heartbreak, and hurt feelings upon hurt feelings. My 'getting over it' period has changed from months to days, then from days to hours, as a result. Being repeatedly hurt tends to let one develop a thick skin over such things.

I have been wondering about it, though. This has also made me incredibly picky, and I wonder if I'm hurting my chances at a relationship because of it. I'm currently single, and I prefer it that way, but when I decide to change my mind...

[Skeppio]

I agree with you that it might be caused by heartbreak upon heartbreak, and hurt feelings upon hurt feelings. My 'getting over it' period has changed from months to days, then from days to hours, as a result. Being repeatedly hurt tends to let one develop a thick skin over such things.

Is that so? Do you have advice on developing a thicker skin, thus resistance to the disappointment of rejection? I ask because I've never been able to develop a good coping method for such things, and as a result I often avoid opportunities out of fear that they'll fail. In addition, each rejection hurts more than the last, because I end up angry at myself for (as I'd see it in such a mood) "being foolish enough to try, knowing how it always goes".

[Kalmageddon]

@Glass Mouse
Thank you for the input, I just wanted to clarify something.

Also also, just to let you know: You don't read as cold/calm/disaffected/stunted to me at all. Your confusion and frustration reads loud and clear long before you get to the "I may sound calm" part. It's a little curious to me that you feel the need to clarify that. Are you much different in writing than in real life? It seems there might be a disconnect in how you perceive yourself and how you actually come across (which is, much more normal and emotional than you think), which is supported by the fact that you say others don't generally find you scary/cold.

I actually said the opposite:

Beside, I'm fairly sure people are put off or scared by me being the way I am.

This is based on the fact that I've been called apathetic and other stuff by people that don't know me very well. In the context of this thread, this refers to women in particular commenting on my way of seeing things (never feeling attraction or romantic interest unless I want to). In general it seems that being unable to control my feelings would be preferable and that somehow me being the way I am makes my feelings less authentic.
And rest assured that I know myself and my feelings very, very well.

As for coming across one way or another in written form, I don't know, I'm not writing in my mother tongue so surely I can't be as good at expressing myself as I would otherwise be. In general I just thought that not using exclamation marks and emoticons left and right would give an impression of calm, but I don't really care one way or the other. I just like to write this way.

Anyway, it's not that big of a deal, this whole thing. Everything considered, I'm still better off than the chronically lonley or the entirely superficial. I find company when i want to find it.
Forgive me if I don't go fishing your quote in particular, but whoever said that I overthink things is right on the money. But it's really not overthinking, it's just that I tend to be very perceptive. I don't have to put any concious effort into it, I see things and I analyze things. I wouldn't know how to stop myself from doing that.
You know when people say "it is the way it is"? That will never be me. I will always look for answers, reasons, ways to solve problems or optimize things. I can't "just relax", because to me, experiencing life is percieving it to its fullest, not shoving things into my subconcious (which is remarkably small, since I started busting it looking for answers a long time ago).

[Serpentine]

Less smartypants answer: I just pointed out the positive traits of one specific-ish type of person. No one fits that niche perfectly, and if you move too far away, that just means other easily-put-in-the-plus-column traits and other subsets of people who take an interest. Most personality types* have their fanclubs. No need to worry about fitting into any kind of mold :)

AKA
EVERYBODY IS SOMEBODY'S FETISH

Do ambiverts count? I fit the definitions of introversion and extroversion since I get energy from both solace and company, and kinda need both to function, but I tend to identify as an extrovert.

I'm kind of similar - I really like being in big crowds and I like being on my own (depending on my mood), but I restore my energy by spending time in small groups of 3-4 (including myself).

[Cyber Punk]

Is that so? Do you have advice on developing a thicker skin, thus resistance to the disappointment of rejection? I ask because I've never been able to develop a good coping method for such things, and as a result I often avoid opportunities out of fear that they'll fail. In addition, each rejection hurts more than the last, because I end up angry at myself for (as I'd see it in such a mood) "being foolish enough to try, knowing how it always goes".

(I didn't say everything I wanted to say, had to condense it because my laptop is overheating and on the verge of switching off.)

Well, dear Skeppio, I believe a perspective shift will help, i.e. how you see rejection. If you see it as something that indicates you fail at life, you'll keep beating yourself up for being rejected, which will in turn damage the heck out of your self-image. That'll end up ensuring you do things that ensure you get rejected, leading into a vicious cycle. You have to come to the realization that focusing on the negative feelings or 'what could have been' will do more harm than good, both in the short and long run. I had to learn that it's better to cut your losses and move on.

Note that despite how you might feel at the moment, the reality is that those who reject you aren't pointing and laughing at you. Even if they are (which says more about them than about you), they're likely to forget about it in a few hours, while the rejectee often makes the mistake of focusing on it for longer than is necessary (in my opinion, that's anything longer than half a day, and I'm being kind).

Also, nothing ever got done by waiting for the safest means of action, sometimes you've gotta take a risk. As I said, you have to reframe rejection.

I would personally recommend you chillaxed a bit and worked more on your self-image and your self-esteem before you tried dating again: if you expect to get rejected, it can be a self-fulfilling prophecy. I'd recommend you get this book as well, as it helped me: The Tao of Badass. 'The Subtle Art Of No-Pressure Seduction' is another good one, and it appears to be free.

Spoiler: P.S. To Skeppio

Show

P.S.: I know I don't comment or reply whenever you post on your 'bad days' (as of recent, I had my bad days as well; I've made some enemies in a certain chat because I kept blowing up on people), but know that I know what it means to be so depressed you can't function, your mind filled with dark thoughts and your thoughts focused on suicide. I want to tell you not to give up: Using meds works, though the effect isn't always immediate (about 2-3 weeks of regular usage and I start seeing results).

I had to learn that the meds help normalize your brain, but it is up to you to take certain actions after the meds kick in, those that'll better your life in the near future.

If you need a friend, my PM box is always open.

[Form]

Is that so? Do you have advice on developing a thicker skin, thus resistance to the disappointment of rejection? I ask because I've never been able to develop a good coping method for such things, and as a result I often avoid opportunities out of fear that they'll fail. In addition, each rejection hurts more than the last, because I end up angry at myself for (as I'd see it in such a mood) "being foolish enough to try, knowing how it always goes".

Place less importance on having a romantic relationship, develop a better understanding of unspoken social rules/social 'games', place less importance on the other person's reaction/care less what other people think. It's not so much a thicker skin as it is a shift in attitude (well, alright, bit of both I suppose). And know that is better to have no relationship than it is to have a bad one.

[Kalmageddon]

Is that so? Do you have advice on developing a thicker skin, thus resistance to the disappointment of rejection? I ask because I've never been able to develop a good coping method for such things, and as a result I often avoid opportunities out of fear that they'll fail. In addition, each rejection hurts more than the last, because I end up angry at myself for (as I'd see it in such a mood) "being foolish enough to try, knowing how it always goes".

Ego, self-criticism and hope, mainly.
If you had a lot of positive experiences, you can use those as a baseline and consider any faliure a fluke and relatively unimportant, because at the end of the day the balance is still positive and your ego is strong enough to take the hit.
Self-criticism is another important tool. Even if you were rejected, you can use this experience to learn where there is room for improvement, be it in your behaviour, looks or timing. This should give you the tools to face the next chance at romance with a bit more confidence, knowing you have improved.
Hope is of course all that is left when the other two methods are not available. Things can change even if you don't, people have all sorts of tastes when it comes to partners, eventually you will find someone that wants to be with you.

I would personally recommend you chillaxed a bit and worked more on your self-image and your self-esteem before you tried dating again: if you expect to get rejected, it can be a self-fulfilling prophecy. I'd recommend you get this book as well, as it helped me: The Tao of Badass. 'The Subtle Art Of No-Pressure Seduction' is another good one, and it appears to be free.

I can't stress how important this is.
You don't date because you need to feel wanted. That way lies only disappointment and abuse. You date because you feel like you are in good terms with yourself and you want someone to share how awesome you are.

[TechnOkami]

Spoiler: I swore I'd never do this, but here, have a rant.

Show

Bleh... I've been feeling like a romantically inclined idiot as of late.

Like, I understand what the people of this thread are saying when I need to wait for someone to interest me before I pursue them, but like, gaah, I dunno.

It's hard to judge who seems to be good dating material when all you have to work with are stray conversations here and there with mostly the only thing you have to work with is how someone looks. Like, I could bluntly tell you which girls at the JC I'm attending right now are cute or not, but is that enough information? Like, should I just use that as my springboard to dating them and ask them out just because I think they look cute? I dunno, that just feels shallow to me somehow.

And like, I dunno I just feel like I've been a blundering fool about it the whole time.

For example:
-one woman in my class seemed cute, nice, and didn't shy from talking with me, and while I toyed with asking her out I basically find out she's married with a kid. She's deceptively young. My thoughts regarding this was near the start of the semester too, so queue the train wreck beginning there.

-car #2 begins with a cute blonde. Long story short she has a boyfriend and I found out today after we got to talking about our respective laziness' (she's lazier than me, which shocked me to be honest because I always think I'm lazy, buuut I've been proven wrong twice now so that's that). Unfortunate for me because she seems to have a nice personality. Sucks that she's taken.

-car #3 is the aforementioned plain girl I mentioned earlier. I've been getting to know her and we do share a lot of similar interests (we like reading mangas, watching parody anime's, watching anime in general, being artists, playing video games, to name a few). Typically she leaves school an hour earlier than me so she can catch her bus. Today our teacher had us leave an hour earlier, so I went to catch up to her at the bus stop, and... well, jealousy slammed me in the sides today because I found out she talks to another guy on the bus and has been doing so for a while (I could infer it from picking up on a few things in their conversations as I walked up). I just feel... petty. Like, I'm not to the dating stage with her yet and I don't think I'll get the chance to because she'll be attending another college come next fall, but that one moment where I saw someone similar to me talking with her on the friendly level I usually do... I just stood there quietly.

I honestly don't know what I'm expecting at this point. I'm being impatient at something which takes a lot of time to cultivate and I don't know how to even gage my interest in women. Is that what dating's for though, to go do fun things with someone in the potential hope that the two might be compatible?

...
...
~sigh~

I'm thinking about this too thoroughly. I just want a snack, a beer, and my brain detoxing with a video game.