Vote with your wallet is a terrible system - Rant

[Poiuytrewq]

I hear people saying vote with your walled but that is a terrible system since most people are dumb.

They will keep buying terrible games full of loot boxes just because it has Han Solo on it.

They will keep buying terrible movie sequals just becuase it has Wolverine on it.

Executives who have no love for their Ip's just want to milk money and end up making the qualities of products terrible.

Sorry just a rant.

[tomandtish]

It's actually (for the most part) a very effective system. The problem isn't with the system. The problem (if there is one) is with the people. Since you seem to be talking movies, people watch what they enjoy watching. And when enough people stop enjoying it, they'll stop watching it.

Plenty of things end because they aren't good. Universal tried their "Dark Universe" series of movies. Tom Cruise and Russel Crowe starred in the first movie (The Mummy). And that did poorly enough that it killed a planned franchise.

But as long as something is making money, there's no reason in the world for those in charge to stop making movies from it. Of the last FIVE Star Wars movies, Solo looks to have the worst opening weekend of any of them (yes, RotS beat them). But it's still gonna probably break 100 million. Plenty of franchises would kill to make that on an opening weekend. So note that it is catching up with them. But there's still enough people who enjoy it to make it profitiable.

And that doesn't make them dumb. It simply means that your taste and theirs don't coincide. I can count the number of broadcast shows (ABC, NBC, etc.) I watch on one hand with fingers left over. Can't really stand any of it. Doesn't mean the people who watch it are dumb. Just means I'm in a minority.

[Anonymouswizard]

Yeah, every system will be affected by the participants.

Voting with your wallet isn't exactly a bad system, it's just that people don't like what you like. I know it's annoying, but that's why I'm voting with my wallet and not seeing Infinity War (as far as I'm concerned they jumped the shark at Civil War) even though my abstaining won't affect anything. In any truly representative system an individual's opinion is relatively meaningless unless combined with others, but it's still my opinion and I am still allowed to see Entebbe instead because I thought it sounded like a better movie.

So yeah, the idea of the system is that if you want more quality products buy more quality products and convince other people to buy them. I personally want more books like the Nights Dawn books, so I've bought every single book in the setting and am convincing my friends into science fiction to try them. The same with Revelation Space, or Creative Commons books. Maybe I'll have an affect by my friends convincing their friends and so on, but at the same time I've given money to those I support and not given money to those I don't.


For an example of positive voting with your wallet, The Greatest Showman (a film with a criminally low amount of circus in it) has created a surge in vintage circus (bah! I was into juggling before it was cool!). While there's a lot I like about modern circus, from the costuming to the sheer inventiveness of the acts, it is good to see a resurgence in classic costuming and some more classic routines, because at the end of the day the precision and the ability is still amazing. I'm waiting until gentleman juggling catches on, a good routine of that is amazing (but not to the point of a truly skilful contact juggling routine). One thing being popular and making a load of money is allowing other things to be popular and make a load of money, because it's generating interest in the people who see it (also, having jugglers in my immediate family and circle of friends, making people more able to make a living doing what they love is always amazing).

[Some Android]

They will keep buying terrible movie sequals just becuase it has Wolverine on it.

Are you trying to say this is a terrible movie?

[Peelee]

EVERYTHING IS A TERRIBLE SYSTEM BECAUSE THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO DO NOT COMPLETELY ALIGN WITH MY OPINIONS.

Am I doing this argument right? It seems like I'm doing this argument right.

[rooster707]

EVERYTHING IS A TERRIBLE SYSTEM BECAUSE THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO DO NOT COMPLETELY ALIGN WITH MY OPINIONS.

Am I doing this argument right? It seems like I'm doing this argument right.

I mean, I’m convinced.

[Some Android]

EVERYTHING IS A TERRIBLE SYSTEM BECAUSE THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO DO NOT COMPLETELY ALIGN WITH MY OPINIONS.

Am I doing this argument right? It seems like I'm doing this argument right.

Congratulations Peelee! With this post you are officially Emperor Godking of the internet!

[Gravitron5000]

I'm waiting until gentleman juggling catches on, a good routine of that is amazing (but not to the point of a truly skilful contact juggling routine)

Seeing gentleman juggling would truly be amazing, but how you would convince them to be juggled is beyond me.

[Anonymouswizard]

Congratulations Peelee! With this post you are officially Emperor Godking of the internet!

I don't agree with this, so you aren't getting my money

Seeing gentleman juggling would truly be amazing, but how you would convince them to be juggled is beyond me.

The traditional routine involves a table without enough room for all the dinner guests

[Bastian Weaver]

Are you trying to say this is a terrible movie?

Well, it is based on one of the lamest comics in history, so...

[Elanasaurus]

Well, it is based on one of the lamest comics in history, so...

Who cares what it's based on?

[2D8HP]

EVERYTHING IS A TERRIBLE SYSTEM BECAUSE THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO DO NOT COMPLETELY ALIGN WITH MY OPINIONS.

Am I doing this argument right? It seems like I'm doing this argument right.

I mean, I’m convinced.

Congratulations Peelee! With this post you are officially Emperor Godking of the internet!

Is this a bandwagon?

Because I want in on the trend.

Please don't leave me behind!

[Peelee]

Is this a bandwagon?

Because I want in on the trend.

Please don't leave me behind!

This bandwagon gladly picks up more passengers.

[Mokèlé-mbèmbé]

I hear people saying vote with your walled but that is a terrible system since most people are dumb.

They will keep buying terrible games full of loot boxes just because it has Han Solo on it.

They will keep buying terrible movie sequals just becuase it has Wolverine on it.

Executives who have no love for their Ip's just want to milk money and end up making the qualities of products terrible.

Sorry just a rant.

Sounds to me like "vote with your wallet" really works. The people have voted for these franchises and these franchises are successful.

This rant seems to be less about that and more about you expressing your personal dissatisfaction with the overmarketing and oversaturation. More power to you, you're preaching to the choir on that front. But just be aware that just because you're a more discerning consumer that doesn't make you correct and the vaguely defined "most people" incorrect. It certainly doesn't make people who don't agree with you "dumb".

Check your tone. It's impolite.

[Peelee]

The more I see this Mokèlé person post, the more I like 'em.

[Mokèlé-mbèmbé]

The more I see this Mokèlé person post, the more I like 'em.

Thank you. I've enjoyed your posts, too.

Just for clarification; I don't want Poiuytrewq to feel as though they are being personally attacked or dogpiled. Everyone is welcome to their opinion and I definitely understand where their statement comes from and I also understand what they were attempting to say. I just don't think they're aware of how rude it came across.

[Dr.Samurai]

I hear people saying vote with your walled but that is a terrible system since most people are dumb.

They will keep buying terrible games full of loot boxes just because it has Han Solo on it.

They will keep buying terrible movie sequals just becuase it has Wolverine on it.

Executives who have no love for their Ip's just want to milk money and end up making the qualities of products terrible.

Sorry just a rant.

What you're actually saying is that "vote with your wallet" doesn't work *for you* because it allows people to continue supporting franchises that you don't like.

And to that I say... I also hate the current X-men movie-verse and the current Star Wars films (though I haven't seen Solo and I hear it's good...). Unfortunately, they make enough money thanks to people that *do* like them that the producers are incentivized to continue making them.

That doesn't mean "vote with your wallet" doesn't work though. It appears to be working for the people buying those tickets just fine.

[Peelee]

What you're actually saying is that "vote with your wallet" doesn't work *for you* because it allows people to continue supporting franchises that you don't like.

And to that I say... I also hate the current X-men movie-verse and the current Star Wars films (though I haven't seen Solo and I hear it's good...). Unfortunately, they make enough money thanks to people that *do* like them that the producers are incentivized to continue making them.

That doesn't mean "vote with your wallet" doesn't work though. It appears to be working for the people buying those tickets just fine.

I absolutely recommend checking out Solo. If all you want is a heist movie in the Star Wars universe, then it delivers in spades. If you want significantly more,

[GloatingSwine]

The fact that other people get to do it too is oft cited as a flaw with voting....


The thing about "voting with your wallet" is that it's a delayed response. Especially for things that are only intermittently released. If you don't like Gun Shootmans 3: Modern Shootang, you only find that out after you've bought it and then you've voted already, and it's not until Gun Shootmans 4: Extreme Edition you get to vote the other way.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

The fact that other people get to do it too is oft cited as a flaw with voting...

"Vimes had once discussed the Ephebian idea of 'democracy' with Carrot, and had been rather interested in the idea that everyone had a vote until he found out that while he, Vimes, would have a vote, there was no way in the rules that anyone could prevent Nobby Nobbs from having one as well. Vimes could see the flaw there straight away."

~ Terry Pratchett, The Fifth Elephant

[JeenLeen]

The fact that other people get to do it too is oft cited as a flaw with voting....


The thing about "voting with your wallet" is that it's a delayed response. Especially for things that are only intermittently released. If you don't like Gun Shootmans 3: Modern Shootang, you only find that out after you've bought it and then you've voted already, and it's not until Gun Shootmans 4: Extreme Edition you get to vote the other way.

I think this is a serious complaint. I might not like something but not know it until I purchase it. Thus, my vote is pro-X, but I'm actually anti-X, because of ignorance about X. (I guess that expands to all voting, insofar as ignorance about what you vote about makes one's vote less likely to be for what one wants it to be for.)

With money, it can also be a confusion of interpreting votes.. Let's say I like Coca-Cola, but there isn't any, so I buy Pepsi. What I really want is soda, but someone observing my vote might think I want Pepsi so they stock more of that, potentially ordering less Coca-Cola to make room for Pepsi. (This scenario is based off a letter printed in a Dilbert book.)

So I think this system does have legitimate problems. But, in the whole, it tends to work to motivate folk to make stuff people will buy.

[Fyraltari]

most people are dumb.

Funny thing, I hear a lot of people saying most people/mean/egoistic/etc are dumb and none of them seems to be included in this "most people". Must be the smallest majority ever.

This bandwagon gladly picks up more passengers.

Praise the Dragon!

[Peelee]

I think this is a serious complaint. I might not like something but not know it until I purchase it. Thus, my vote is pro-X, but I'm actually anti-X, because of ignorance about X. (I guess that expands to all voting, insofar as ignorance about what you vote about makes one's vote less likely to be for what one wants it to be for.)

With money, it can also be a confusion of interpreting votes.. Let's say I like Coca-Cola, but there isn't any, so I buy Pepsi. What I really want is soda, but someone observing my vote might think I want Pepsi so they stock more of that, potentially ordering less Coca-Cola to make room for Pepsi. (This scenario is based off a letter printed in a Dilbert book.)

So I think this system does have legitimate problems. But, in the whole, it tends to work to motivate folk to make stuff people will buy.

There are absolutely problems with it, I agree, but I disagree with the coke analogy. If I go to the store to buy a drink, and they have no Coca-Cola but do have Pepsi, and I buy a Pepsi, that is only relevant data if they look at a larger timeframe. If product X is out of stock and product Y sales go up, then it's because people who normally get X do not mind getting Y if they need. Same for Y being out and X being in stock. The only relevant data is for when both are in stock, for that's when the actual choice is made. Someone ordering more Pepsi due to Pepsi sales rising after Coke ran out is going to end up with a glut of Pepsi when the next truck comes in. (No slight against Pepsi drinkers here, of course.)

For things like video games, where there are no refunds once it's purchased, it is substantially harder, I agree. This can be somewhat mitigated with reviews, and much more mitigated with demos (which, I think, is why they stopped having so many free downloadable demos... either that or I just can't find them anymore). They can try to stack the deck, but the voting system will still give data.

Praise the Dragon!

Vive la France!

[Dr.Samurai]

I absolutely recommend checking out Solo. If all you want is a heist movie in the Star Wars universe, then it delivers in spades. If you want significantly more,

I intended not to see it as a way of voting with my wallet. However, my girlfriend wants to see it, so I will in fact be seeing it soon. It's unfortunate, because my tiny vote will be disingenuous. How can I let the powers-that-be know that Dr. Samurai doesn't like the direction they're going in if I am paying to see their movie?!?!?!?!

The thing about "voting with your wallet" is that it's a delayed response. Especially for things that are only intermittently released. If you don't like Gun Shootmans 3: Modern Shootang, you only find that out after you've bought it and then you've voted already, and it's not until Gun Shootmans 4: Extreme Edition you get to vote the other way.

QFT.

[WarKitty]

With money, it can also be a confusion of interpreting votes.. Let's say I like Coca-Cola, but there isn't any, so I buy Pepsi. What I really want is soda, but someone observing my vote might think I want Pepsi so they stock more of that, potentially ordering less Coca-Cola to make room for Pepsi. (This scenario is based off a letter printed in a Dilbert book.)

So I think this system does have legitimate problems. But, in the whole, it tends to work to motivate folk to make stuff people will buy.

It can really fail in this case on products I have to buy. If I want a particular version of something that no one sells, but I need some version of that product, my vote's still going to be recorded for some version.

I think this is part of the reason behind the particular proliferation of unnecessarily gendered products. Some people want them; some people don't. But the people that don't will still buy a gendered version. The companies don't care if I buy the men's version or the women's version, as long as I buy something. They know I won't decide to stop buying deodorant and razors.

[Bastian Weaver]

Who cares what it's based on?

I do.
... is that a trick question? It sounded like a trick question.

[Peelee]

I intended not to see it as a way of voting with my wallet. However, my girlfriend wants to see it, so I will in fact be seeing it soon. It's unfortunate, because my tiny vote will be disingenuous. How can I let the powers-that-be know that Dr. Samurai doesn't like the direction they're going in if I am paying to see their movie?!?!?!?!

QFT.

Use a free pass, such as a readmit, comp, or annual pass (if you can get an annual pass, you should be seeing movies whenever you're bored, to be frank). Barring that, if you don't have a discountabel ticket like student, military, or senior, go see it before 6pm. It'll mitigate as much as possible.

That said, I still hope you enjoy it!

ETA: For what it's worth, I also dislike the direction they take it in, and it's my favorite of the new movies. I like it quite a bit.

[2D8HP]

Vive la France!

Gloire à l'empereur!

[Lemmy]

It doesn't really matter if it's a good system or a terrible one. It's the only one we got (short of authoritarian censorship, which sadly seems to be gaining popularity among some crowds).

At the end of the day, these companies aren't creating their products for the artistic value (or at veey least, not only for that).

So you either vote with your wallet or you don't vote.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Are you trying to say this is a terrible movie?

I heard nothing but good things about it but after 5 Wolverine movies all of highly dubious quality I was just done.